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Kayosoni
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Posted - 2006.04.09 02:57:00 -
[1]
CLEARLY, CLEARLY.
Unnerf the nighthawk
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btw, threatening to close 1 account really hurt my eyes. - xaioguai |
Mudkest
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Posted - 2006.04.09 03:05:00 -
[2]
0.2 for a precision missile 
still beats the wrecking hits for 0 points of damage I come acros now and then though 
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Spartan III
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Posted - 2006.04.09 03:15:00 -
[3]
yep unerf it please, or nerf the crow... Yeah, nerf the crow, that will make me happy!
---
Wolven Elite Guard - Currently recruiting |
Blind Man
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Posted - 2006.04.09 03:23:00 -
[4]
LOL
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Leno
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Posted - 2006.04.09 03:36:00 -
[5]
glad i got rid of that crappy bpo 
---------------
RIP - Smoske, My Friend
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Espen
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Posted - 2006.04.09 03:38:00 -
[6]
lewl, nerf the nighthawk tbfh.
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Hllaxiu
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Posted - 2006.04.09 04:05:00 -
[7]
 Originally by: Kayosoni
CLEARLY, CLEARLY.
Unnerf the nighthawk
Don't feel bad, I can't hit bob crows either.
In all seriousness: Caldari CCs need a rethink...
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Our greatest glory is not in never failing, but in rising up every time we fail. - Emerson |
Central Scrutinizer
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Posted - 2006.04.09 04:40:00 -
[8]
Dunno if this is a serious post, so I'll answer this assuming it is.
I'm betting that crow was either going full speed, or was going full speed and you hit him just as MWD turned off.
Same thing happens with all missiles.
As soon as he started orbiting you within disruptor range he'd pop in two (or 1.5) volleys.
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Corn Meal
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Posted - 2006.04.09 06:29:00 -
[9]
unnerf pls......
nighthawk is worthless
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Rexthor Hammerfists
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Posted - 2006.04.09 06:31:00 -
[10]
yep, needs a unnerf.
or better a complete rethink, or however u say it..
-
Purple Conquered The World, We the Universe.
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Jim McGregor
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Posted - 2006.04.09 08:02:00 -
[11]
Useless post ftw.
---
"Automatic override. Manual control overridden by autopilot. Please wait for operation to complete. You can override the automatic autopilot override in 28 seconds. Then you can make it wait" |
Maya Rkell
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Posted - 2006.04.09 09:07:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Kayosoni
CLEARLY, CLEARLY.
Unnerf the nighthawk
What's happened there is quite clear. He's just turned off his MWD, so his sig radius is tiny...but he's still traveling at 4km/s for a few seconds.
WTS Sack of limes to Kayo.
"The Human eye is a marvelous device, with a very little effort it can overlook all but the most glaring injustice" - Quellchrist Falconer |
Deva Blackfire
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Posted - 2006.04.09 09:40:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Deva Blackfire on 09/04/2006 09:40:50
One question:
Do you think you are supposed to own any inty in one-two salvos just when you equip precissions?
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Ryysa
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Posted - 2006.04.09 10:58:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Deva Blackfire
One question:
Do you think you are supposed to own any inty in one-two salvos just when you equip precissions?
yes.
All about target jamming |
Kyoko Sakoda
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Posted - 2006.04.09 11:04:00 -
[15]
Well, Nighthawk should be unnerfed, yes. But frigate killer it should not be. 
Learn what it means to be Caldari - www.omertasyndicate.com |
Grimpak
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Posted - 2006.04.09 11:25:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Ryysa
Originally by: Deva Blackfire
One question:
Do you think you are supposed to own any inty in one-two salvos just when you equip precissions?
yes.
no.
----------------
Originally by: Abdalion
Shoot him ingame if you don't like this person. If you do like him, go mine veldspar with him.
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Ryysa
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Posted - 2006.04.09 11:34:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Grimpak
Originally by: Ryysa
Originally by: Deva Blackfire
One question:
Do you think you are supposed to own any inty in one-two salvos just when you equip precissions?
yes.
no.
yes. :)
All about target jamming |
Copine Callmeknau
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Posted - 2006.04.09 11:35:00 -
[18]
Welcome to explosion velocity.
-------
With five million sheep in this army
I seem to be the only one fit to command
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KilROCK
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Posted - 2006.04.09 11:38:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Ryysa
Originally by: Grimpak
Originally by: Ryysa
Originally by: Deva Blackfire
One question:
Do you think you are supposed to own any inty in one-two salvos just when you equip precissions?
yes.
no.
yes. :)
right, Absolution can 1 volley a crow going 8km/s?
right, Astarte can 1 volley a crow going 8km/s?
right, Sleipnir can 1 volley a crow going 8km/s?
NO!
Ok, maybe it needs better bonuses but stop dreaming.
Originally by: KilROCK
I make sigs, evemail me if interested.
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Jim McGregor
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Posted - 2006.04.09 11:38:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Ryysa
Originally by: Grimpak
Originally by: Ryysa
Originally by: Deva Blackfire
One question:
Do you think you are supposed to own any inty in one-two salvos just when you equip precissions?
yes.
no.
yes. :)
Maybe you guys should think about if you want small ships to have a role in this game or not.
---
"Automatic override. Manual control overridden by autopilot. Please wait for operation to complete. You can override the automatic autopilot override in 28 seconds. Then you can make it wait" |
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j0sephine
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Posted - 2006.04.09 11:49:00 -
[21]
Edited by: j0sephine on 09/04/2006 11:49:59
"One question:
Do you think you are supposed to own any inty in one-two salvos just when you equip precissions?"
I think the point is, if the highly specialized ship equipped with precision missiles _and_ set of precision-related boosts still sucks at taking out small ships ... then this whole "but she can hit small targets!11!one" specialization that is supposed to balance out extremely limited overall damage output in comparison to other field commands... is questionable, at best.
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Exogene
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Posted - 2006.04.09 11:56:00 -
[22]
I am using pulses and have a similar problem. At optimal range and appropriate t-velocity range, while hitting targets the turrets suddenly stop hitting all and keep getting misses. In this state i have also tried 0 t-velocity + optimal range still no hits. Turning AB on and off also seems to start this problem sometimes. It usually goes away within 30sec - 5 mins or i have to log off. Please fix this crap, i am fighting NPC, imagine i get this bug during a real fight...
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Denrace
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Posted - 2006.04.09 13:41:00 -
[23]
Nighthawk sucks.
Boost it.
________________________________________
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Deva Blackfire
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Posted - 2006.04.09 15:02:00 -
[24]
Quote:
I think the point is, if the highly specialized ship equipped with precision missiles _and_ set of precision-related boosts still sucks at taking out small ships ... then this whole "but she can hit small targets!11!one" specialization that is supposed to balance out extremely limited overall damage output in comparison to other field commands... is questionable, at best.
Ok - if you give it an ability to instapwn inties, then:
what kind of defence do you propose for said inties if they wish to tackle you or even come closer than 50km's?
(not talking about defenders - not every inty can fit them).
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Rawthorm
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Posted - 2006.04.09 15:28:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Rawthorm on 09/04/2006 15:32:27
Originally by: Deva Blackfire
Quote:
I think the point is, if the highly specialized ship equipped with precision missiles _and_ set of precision-related boosts still sucks at taking out small ships ... then this whole "but she can hit small targets!11!one" specialization that is supposed to balance out extremely limited overall damage output in comparison to other field commands... is questionable, at best.
Ok - if you give it an ability to instapwn inties, then:
what kind of defence do you propose for said inties if they wish to tackle you or even come closer than 50km's?
(not talking about defenders - not every inty can fit them).
None. Intys should not be able to tackle every ship in game with total impunity.
Besides the DPS of caldari has always stunk (and when it dont it because the player has been forces to use multipul BCU's just to keep up) In general missile versitility was the only pro to using missiles and if missiles get any crappier then I think its about time missiles got a minor damage increase.
Short version = Let the Tech 2 missile boat do what they are are by their stats MENT to do. Deal with smaller craft rather than craft of their own classes.
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Malthros Zenobia
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Posted - 2006.04.09 15:47:00 -
[26]
FFS, you're not flying a combat ship, you're flying a gang-bonus-***** ship.
Originally by: Dark Shikari
Istvaan Shogaatsu's ego, when combined with a veldspar asteroid, would create 500 titans. Too bad he's never mined.
RAWR!11 Sig Hijack!11 - Imaran |
Harry Voyager
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Posted - 2006.04.09 16:08:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Malthros Zenobia
FFS, you're not flying a combat ship, you're flying a gang-bonus-***** ship.
Quote:
Field command ships are geared more towards out-and-out combat than their fleet command counterparts, though both ships can hold their own in battle.
Not a combat ship
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Kayosoni
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Posted - 2006.04.09 17:09:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Maya Rkell
Originally by: Kayosoni
CLEARLY, CLEARLY.
Unnerf the nighthawk
What's happened there is quite clear. He's just turned off his MWD, so his sig radius is tiny...but he's still traveling at 4km/s for a few seconds.
WTS Sack of limes to Kayo.
Incorrect. He was actually orbitting me faster than my misiles travelled after that ONE hit. Thanks for no velocity bonus.
-----------------------------------
btw, threatening to close 1 account really hurt my eyes. - xaioguai |
Wartogg
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Posted - 2006.04.09 17:40:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Meeko Gloom
Originally by: Ryysa
Originally by: Grimpak
Originally by: Ryysa
Originally by: Deva Blackfire
One question:
Do you think you are supposed to own any inty in one-two salvos just when you equip precissions?
yes.
no.
yes. :)
no
yes
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Jim Raynor
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Posted - 2006.04.09 17:42:00 -
[30]
why not just give the nighthawk a launcher rate of fire bonus instead of one of the useless precision/target nav prediction bonuses and call it a day?
it'd be on par with the other command bcruisers dps wise and be a perfectly good and worthwhile ship to train for
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j0sephine
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Posted - 2006.04.09 17:44:00 -
[31]
"Ok - if you give it an ability to instapwn inties, then:
what kind of defence do you propose for said inties if they wish to tackle you or even come closer than 50km's?"
So, to summarize: a ship is given sucky overall damage in comparison to other field commands and to compensate, a theoretical ability to hit small crafts... and then this ability is taken away because it leaves said small crafts defenseless. In the end leaving ship in question with sucky damage and no compensation for this whatsoever.
How does the final outcome of this make any sense, again?
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Grimpak
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Posted - 2006.04.09 18:46:00 -
[32]
Edited by: Grimpak on 09/04/2006 18:47:01
Originally by: Wartogg
Originally by: Meeko Gloom
Originally by: Ryysa
Originally by: Grimpak
Originally by: Ryysa
Originally by: Deva Blackfire
One question:
Do you think you are supposed to own any inty in one-two salvos just when you equip precissions?
yes.
no.
yes. :)
no
yes
NO DAMNIT!
oh and:
Originally by: Jim Raynor
why not just give the nighthawk a launcher rate of fire bonus instead of one of the useless precision/target nav prediction bonuses and call it a day?
it'd be on par with the other command bcruisers dps wise and be a perfectly good and worthwhile ship to train for
yes.
----------------
Originally by: Abdalion
Shoot him ingame if you don't like this person. If you do like him, go mine veldspar with him.
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HippoKing
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Posted - 2006.04.09 18:47:00 -
[33]
yeah, it needs fixing.
and so does your ****** up sig!
Win a Cerberus!!
sigs of the 23/24/25 hijack just as well -eris
yarrrr, i shall retake my sig -HippoKing
Not a chance, our 1337 sig haXx0r sk1llz are too powerful! - Wrangler
Ho-Ho-Hooooooo, Merry Saturday!11 - Immy
Yo ho ho and a bottle of BReeEEEEeee.... - Jacques ARRRRRRchambault
Stop spamming with "QFT" >:|. - Teblin
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Jagaroth
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Posted - 2006.04.09 18:49:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Malthros Zenobia
FFS, you're not flying a combat ship, you're flying a gang-bonus-***** ship.
 
Point me to the gang bonus it confers...
It is no better than a Ferox in that respect.
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Grimpak
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Posted - 2006.04.09 18:53:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Jagaroth
Originally by: Malthros Zenobia
FFS, you're not flying a combat ship, you're flying a gang-bonus-***** ship.
Point me to the gang bonus it confers...
It is no better than a Ferox in that respect.
and, imho, that's the problem 
Field Commands are just souped-up HAC's
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Originally by: Abdalion
Shoot him ingame if you don't like this person. If you do like him, go mine veldspar with him.
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HippoKing
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Posted - 2006.04.09 19:32:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Grimpak
Field Commands are just souped-up HAC's
wrong. 3/4 field commands are just souped-up HACs
Win a Cerberus!!
sigs of the 23/24/25 hijack just as well -eris
yarrrr, i shall retake my sig -HippoKing
Not a chance, our 1337 sig haXx0r sk1llz are too powerful! - Wrangler
Ho-Ho-Hooooooo, Merry Saturday!11 - Immy
Yo ho ho and a bottle of BReeEEEEeee.... - Jacques ARRRRRRchambault
Stop spamming with "QFT" >:|. - Teblin
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alty mcaltalot
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Posted - 2006.04.09 19:35:00 -
[37]
Originally by: HippoKing
Originally by: Grimpak
Field Commands are just souped-up HAC's
wrong. 3/4 field commands are just souped-up HACs
1/2
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Denrace
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Posted - 2006.04.09 19:42:00 -
[38]
Originally by: alty mcaltalot
Originally by: HippoKing
Originally by: Grimpak
Field Commands are just souped-up HAC's
wrong. 3/4 field commands are just souped-up HACs
1/2
Wrong.
Sleipnir = Uber-Muninn
Astarte = Uber-Deimos
Absolution = Uber-Zealot
Nighthawk = Craptacular
How is that 1/2?
Den
________________________________________
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Denrace
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Posted - 2006.04.09 19:43:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Jim Raynor
why not just give the nighthawk a launcher rate of fire bonus instead of one of the useless precision/target nav prediction bonuses and call it a day?
it'd be on par with the other command bcruisers dps wise and be a perfectly good and worthwhile ship to train for
Once again, Jim hits the nail on the head.
However, the NH needs more than a single ROF bonus to push it past 400DPS.
It should do AT LEAST 500DPS.
Maybe swap out a low slot for an 8th High and give it 7 or 8 launchers.
________________________________________
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Lord Spidey
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Posted - 2006.04.09 20:49:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Deva Blackfire
Edited by: Deva Blackfire on 09/04/2006 09:40:50
One question:
Do you think you are supposed to own any inty in one-two salvos just when you equip precissions?
One question:
Do you think you are going to own a inty after 10 salvos when you hit for .2 with precisions?
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Grimpak
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Posted - 2006.04.09 21:13:00 -
[41]
Originally by: HippoKing
Originally by: Grimpak
Field Commands are just souped-up HAC's
wrong. 3/4 field commands are just souped-up HACs
ok then, 3/4 field commands are just souped-up HAC's
----------------
Originally by: Abdalion
Shoot him ingame if you don't like this person. If you do like him, go mine veldspar with him.
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Sun Ra
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Posted - 2006.04.09 21:18:00 -
[42]
Whats your point??????? medium guns wouldnt touch him at all
Arcane Frankologies - 'plz stop guys it's xmas' |
Wizie
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Posted - 2006.04.09 22:01:00 -
[43]
[ 2006.03.28 08:00:20 ] (combat) Your 220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II glances off Merrin Farthing [KDM], causing no real damage.
Was a frig tech I.
My 220mm autocannon Vaga missed it.
BOOST THE VAGA!!!!!
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Nifel
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Posted - 2006.04.09 22:16:00 -
[44]
Next time shoot at an interceptor pilot that doesn't have a snake set.
"We wield swords for the sound of laughter that used to be there long ago."
RKK Ranking: (MIN13) Jata |
Tousaka Langley
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Posted - 2006.04.09 22:17:00 -
[45]
As has been pointed out much earlier, it's obvious he had just de-activated his MWD but still had mad speed.
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HippoKing
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Posted - 2006.04.09 22:18:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Sun Ra
Whats your point??????? medium guns wouldnt touch him at all
so how ****ed off would you be if you lost your damage bonuses for bonuses to hitting frigs and STILL couldn't do it?
Win a Cerberus!!
sigs of the 23/24/25 hijack just as well -eris
yarrrr, i shall retake my sig -HippoKing
Not a chance, our 1337 sig haXx0r sk1llz are too powerful! - Wrangler
Ho-Ho-Hooooooo, Merry Saturday!11 - Immy
Yo ho ho and a bottle of BReeEEEEeee.... - Jacques ARRRRRRchambault
Stop spamming with "QFT" >:|. - Teblin
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Kayosoni
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Posted - 2006.04.09 22:22:00 -
[47]
Edited by: Kayosoni on 09/04/2006 22:21:55
Originally by: Tousaka Langley
As has been pointed out much earlier, it's obvious he had just de-activated his MWD but still had mad speed.
AsI pointed out earlier, it's obvious you're retarded. He had his MWD on the netire time, out of 30 missiles shot, 1 hit him for .2 damage, and after that 1 hit him, he was going faster than my missile's velocity.
-----------------------------------
btw, threatening to close 1 account really hurt my eyes. - xaioguai |
BoinKlasik
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Posted - 2006.04.10 00:06:00 -
[48]
And here i was hoping i was gonna like the Nigthawk...it looked so sexy :(
*doh, I broke my edited sig :/* *cries*
this signature was lacking pink, I'll provide it for you. There. Looks better doesn't it? -Eris
Fixed it for you. Oh, btw, yarr!  ~kieron
Didn't I tell you? The damsel moved in with me, we're having a great time. - Wrangler
The damsel may not be distressed any more, but how many times does the informant have to be silenced before he gets the message? - Cortes
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Jim Raynor
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Posted - 2006.04.10 01:50:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Denrace
Originally by: Jim Raynor
why not just give the nighthawk a launcher rate of fire bonus instead of one of the useless precision/target nav prediction bonuses and call it a day?
it'd be on par with the other command bcruisers dps wise and be a perfectly good and worthwhile ship to train for
Once again, Jim hits the nail on the head.
However, the NH needs more than a single ROF bonus to push it past 400DPS.
It should do AT LEAST 500DPS.
Maybe swap out a low slot for an 8th High and give it 7 or 8 launchers.
If it had a rate of fire bonus + kinetic missile damage bonus and you had maximum skills and you fit 3 dread gurista ballistics you would do exactly 460 DPS with 6 launchers.
By comparison a Cerberus does 383 DPS using scourge and max skills and 3 dg bcu.
Nighthawk would do 552 DPS with Fury Scourge, max.
Cerberus does 460 DPS with Fury Scourge, max.
Seems pretty low, but I think a good Cerberus setup can hang tough against pretty much any other HAC really despite the DPS not being phenominal on paper (missiles dont miss, you can fire from any range, ect).
Anyways, Nighthawk should have the same bonuses as a Cerberus offensively really to be as good as the other command battlecruisers, it's a joke right now, oh well.
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Prestis
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Posted - 2006.04.10 02:43:00 -
[50]
That damge is 0.2 more than any turret user would get on an orbiting Inty going that speed.
And just before that you got 176.6 more than any turret would hit for.
Where's the insta-pop-tacklers T2 ammo for the other half of the game?
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Jim Raynor
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Posted - 2006.04.10 02:49:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Prestis
That damge is 0.2 more than any turret user would get on an orbiting Inty going that speed.
And just before that you got 176.6 more than any turret would hit for.
Where's the insta-pop-tacklers T2 ammo for the other half of the game?
Kayo is using a bad example as to why the Nighthawk blows.
A Crow going full speed will not take damage from anything really especially if it has snake set.
Obviously if the Crow goes to turn and manuever in actual combat it will take hits, especially from missiles, that's not really the point.
I think the point Kayo was trying to make was that the Nighthawk has horrible DPS compared to ther command bcruisers AND it can't even hit frigates well with the nav/precision bonuses.
Bad example though, DPS due to lack of proper offensive bonuses is the problem with the Nighthawk not the ability to hit a Crow going 6,000m/s+
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Estan Drake
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Posted - 2006.04.13 04:43:00 -
[52]
Clearly an argument to *Nerf* the Crow as I see it =)
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Darax Thulain
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Posted - 2006.04.13 06:07:00 -
[53]
Oh well. This thread doesnt hold much proof as it was neur0n you were shooting at, and he had a full set of highgrade Snakes. And that only proves that he is very fast, not that your missiles are slow.
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Gee'Kin
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Posted - 2006.04.13 08:06:00 -
[54]
real dissapointment, i dont even think its a caldari ship :P . can i get my training time back ?
-------------------------------------------->
Eve is all about fun, fun and more fun. Why whine. Just adapt.
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Armi Tage
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Posted - 2006.04.13 09:57:00 -
[55]
for all the guys that can't read, the first hit for 176.something was on another ship not the crow he hit for 0.2
fix Interbus Missions - don't remove them |
DarK
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Posted - 2006.04.13 10:13:00 -
[56]
Wish people would stop being retarded by saying "well all the other Field command ships won't hit inties either".
Do you not realise that the reason we are complaining is that not only can it not perform it's designated role any better than the other field command ships, but also lacks the other's DPS thus leaving it with ZERO use.
Can't kill small ships, can't kill big ships.
Get it?
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Deva Blackfire
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Posted - 2006.04.13 10:26:00 -
[57]
Edited by: Deva Blackfire on 13/04/2006 10:27:38
Quote:
Can't kill small ships, can't kill big ships.
Omfg... "Cant kill small ships that are set up for speed SPECIFICALLY TO EVADE ENEMY GUNS AND MISSILES".
Try it against AFs, t1 frigs, dessys, interdictors or even t1 cruisers. They WILL die.
As for designed role, look at dictors and dessys:
Additionally, much like their destroyer-class progenitors, they are well-suited to offensive strikes against frigate-sized craft.
Boost dictors and dessys! Cause fighting against AFs just asks for problems.
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El Verbatim
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Posted - 2006.04.13 10:40:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Armi Tage
for all the guys that can't read, the first hit for 176.something was on another ship not the crow he hit for 0.2
Doesn't matter.... crow is going insanely fast and faster then missile velocity. Try hitting it with a turret... it does seem to hit the rifter pretty hard. Last time I checked that was also a frigate.
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Rexthor Hammerfists
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Posted - 2006.04.13 13:31:00 -
[59]
Random nublet:
"Omfg... "Cant kill small ships that are set up for speed SPECIFICALLY TO EVADE ENEMY GUNS AND MISSILES".
Try it against AFs, t1 frigs, dessys, interdictors or even t1 cruisers. They WILL die."
point is that the other ships would do it way better.
im all for a rof bonus,
and the kinetic dmg bonus changed to all missiles types.
-
Purple Conquered The World, We the Universe.
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Sun Ra
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Posted - 2006.04.13 13:39:00 -
[60]
Originally by: HippoKing
Originally by: Sun Ra
Whats your point??????? medium guns wouldnt touch him at all
so how ****ed off would you be if you lost your damage bonuses for bonuses to hitting frigs and STILL couldn't do it?
If turrent ship had a bonus that was ment to hit inties travelign at 5k id say it was over powerd and needs nerfin
Arcane Frankologies - 'plz stop guys it's xmas' |
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HippoKing
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Posted - 2006.04.13 13:42:00 -
[61]
Originally by: Sun Ra
Originally by: HippoKing
Originally by: Sun Ra
Whats your point??????? medium guns wouldnt touch him at all
so how ****ed off would you be if you lost your damage bonuses for bonuses to hitting frigs and STILL couldn't do it?
If turrent ship had a bonus that was ment to hit inties travelign at 5k id say it was over powerd and needs nerfin
but if it was given a bonus to hitting frigates, but still couldn't, so in fact it got a completely useless bonus you wouldn't be pleased, right?
take the vagabond. lose the ROF bonus, and replace it with tracking. is it a good ship now?
Win a Cerberus!!
sigs of the 23/24/25 hijack just as well -eris
yarrrr, i shall retake my sig -HippoKing
Not a chance, our 1337 sig haXx0r sk1llz are too powerful! - Wrangler
Ho-Ho-Hooooooo, Merry Saturday!11 - Immy
Yo ho ho and a bottle of BReeEEEEeee.... - Jacques ARRRRRRchambault
Stop spamming with "QFT" >:|. - Teblin
Who pwned who?  ~kieron |
Larshus Magrus
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Posted - 2006.04.13 13:51:00 -
[62]
Originally by: Deva Blackfire
Edited by: Deva Blackfire on 09/04/2006 09:40:50
One question:
Do you think you are supposed to own any inty in one-two salvos just when you equip precissions?
Considering thats the ONLY purpose that the NG has and it sucks for damn near everything else, Hell yes.
If you spend 225 mil for the ship, months of specialized training, another 100 mil in modules, give up all flexability to specialize on killing inties/frigs then yes, you expect to pown them.
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Deva Blackfire
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Posted - 2006.04.13 14:03:00 -
[63]
Edited by: Deva Blackfire on 13/04/2006 14:04:48
Quote:
If you spend 225 mil for the ship, months of specialized training, another 100 mil in modules, give up all flexability to specialize on killing inties/frigs then yes, you expect to pown them.
Its your problem that you buy overpriced ships, especially when their production costs are much lower.
It reminds me of someone saying that "HACs need to be improved to kill BS fast because they are more expensive". You are still flying ship that is cheaper than tier2 BS (not sure about tier1)...
Btw - i never saw anyone saying that dreads are too weak because they cost a LOT of money and you need even more time to skill for them...
Live with it - you can still kill most normal intys without bigger problems (normal= 3,5-4km/s). If someone uses their whole setup + ****loads of money in implants (guess those implants are worth much more than Nighthawk+fitting) he should be able to evade it.
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Ashraaf
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Posted - 2006.04.13 14:14:00 -
[64]
Originally by: Deva Blackfire
Edited by: Deva Blackfire on 13/04/2006 10:27:38
Quote:
Can't kill small ships, can't kill big ships.
Omfg... "Cant kill small ships that are set up for speed SPECIFICALLY TO EVADE ENEMY GUNS AND MISSILES".
omfg..." can't use my ship for what it was designed, special bonus against small and fast ship, and for this bonus i lose a part of my abilities to kill big ship faster
There's a problem with the nighthawk design, maybe thinking about it and change things (not make thing uber uber).
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Crellion
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Posted - 2006.04.13 14:38:00 -
[65]
I am sick and tired of people giving one sided idiotic views in this forum based on the 1 and only ship that they fly all day every day. Grow up or stfu.
Now on the issue at hand:
1) nighthawk has to have a role. It has 1/5th of the DPS of other Command ships because its designed as antifrig. Given that an antifrig rig costing a gazillion isk and 6 months training time to do what a destroyer can do for you 2 weeks in the game for 2 mill total cost is a bit crazy to begin with... can you blame peeps who at least want it to work???
2) On the other hand with half decent flying skills precision heavies work quite well and I have wtfbbqd a few intys with them in my Cerb. Hell, I even killed a crow last night with a precision cruise raven 2 volleys (with some cruise wasted).
3) Its all aboout flying correctly at the moment on both parts (peron firing and person beeing fired at). Balance is not as bad as people think. I think CCP had done precisions right allthough peeps can come up with stuff like the OP and say HAX HAX or with shots of a webbed 0 speed mwd on, medium shield extender wearing Crow being hit by precision scourge on a Cerb for 315dmg and say HAX HAX again. Well you are not funny... either of you. I am laughing at you, not with you, at best.
pfffffffffffttttttt 
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Shemaul
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Posted - 2006.04.13 20:57:00 -
[66]
Considering the amount of skill it take to pilot a Nighthawk.
Considering the bonus the Nighthawk got to take down small ships.
Considering the SP u need now to train all generic missiles skills at lvl5 (plus heavy and heavy spec).
The Nighthawk needs to be far more better than actually is.
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Malthros Zenobia
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Posted - 2006.04.14 01:38:00 -
[67]
Originally by: Harry Voyager
Originally by: Malthros Zenobia
FFS, you're not flying a combat ship, you're flying a gang-bonus-***** ship.
Quote:
Field command ships are geared more towards out-and-out combat than their fleet command counterparts, though both ships can hold their own in battle.
Not a combat ship
They're more geared to combat than their counterparts, not AFs or HACs. Just like a Condor is more geared towards out-and-out combat than a heron or bantam.
Originally by: Dark Shikari
Istvaan Shogaatsu's ego, when combined with a veldspar asteroid, would create 500 titans. Too bad he's never mined.
RAWR!11 Sig Hijack!11 - Imaran |
Malthros Zenobia
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Posted - 2006.04.14 01:40:00 -
[68]
Originally by: Jagaroth
Originally by: Malthros Zenobia
FFS, you're not flying a combat ship, you're flying a gang-bonus-***** ship.
Point me to the gang bonus it confers...
It is no better than a Ferox in that respect.
You're talking to one of the people who has been saying for awhile now that CBCs should have gang-related bonuses, not combat related ones.
Originally by: Dark Shikari
Istvaan Shogaatsu's ego, when combined with a veldspar asteroid, would create 500 titans. Too bad he's never mined.
RAWR!11 Sig Hijack!11 - Imaran |
Malthros Zenobia
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Posted - 2006.04.14 01:43:00 -
[69]
Originally by: Prestis
That damge is 0.2 more than any turret user would get on an orbiting Inty going that speed.
And just before that you got 176.6 more than any turret would hit for.
Where's the insta-pop-tacklers T2 ammo for the other half of the game?
An inty will passive-regen that 0.2 shields, so it's moot.
With the inty flying at the bigger ship, with a MWD on, you'd have a damn good chance of hitting the inty with guns, unless it comes in at a big trans.
Originally by: Dark Shikari
Istvaan Shogaatsu's ego, when combined with a veldspar asteroid, would create 500 titans. Too bad he's never mined.
RAWR!11 Sig Hijack!11 - Imaran |
Malthros Zenobia
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Posted - 2006.04.14 01:46:00 -
[70]
Originally by: Deva Blackfire
Edited by: Deva Blackfire on 13/04/2006 10:27:38
Quote:
Can't kill small ships, can't kill big ships.
Omfg... "Cant kill small ships that are set up for speed SPECIFICALLY TO EVADE ENEMY GUNS AND MISSILES".
Hi, the ship has a bonus to hit smaller ships, and was using ammo made to hit smaller ships.
Are you saying the speed setup, which pretty much anyone with a MWD and some nanos could get, should nullify the t2 ammo and ship's bonus?
Thou hast smoketh something funky.
Originally by: Dark Shikari
Istvaan Shogaatsu's ego, when combined with a veldspar asteroid, would create 500 titans. Too bad he's never mined.
RAWR!11 Sig Hijack!11 - Imaran |
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Zekk Pacus
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Posted - 2006.04.14 01:52:00 -
[71]
With missile projection at 5 your missiles would have a max velocity of 5,490ms a second. If you're flying such a specialised ship you're expected to have most support skills at 4/5. Most inties can't hit that speed. I think if the inty you're firing at is piloted by a person with a full set of high-grade snake crystals you shouldn't expect to do much damage no matter what you're in.
I agree with Kayo but he's using a really bad example to make his point, which I think is what most people are complaining about in this thread.
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Altrex Stoppel
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Posted - 2006.04.14 01:56:00 -
[72]
Originally by: Grimpak
Edited by: Grimpak on 09/04/2006 18:47:01
Originally by: Wartogg
Originally by: Meeko Gloom
Originally by: Ryysa
Originally by: Grimpak
Originally by: Ryysa
Originally by: Deva Blackfire
One question:
Do you think you are supposed to own any inty in one-two salvos just when you equip precissions?
yes.
no.
yes. :)
no
yes
NO DAMNIT!
Stargates or jumpdrives?
Originally by: LUKEC
Antipiracy is causing brain damage
Lies... |
Xeris
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Posted - 2006.04.14 02:46:00 -
[73]
The ship is a pile; i was going to train one of my guys for it until I saw its bonuses.
Its the only dedicated missile ship that doesn't have a missile velocity bonus. What good is having sig radius and explosion velocity bonus' if the missiles can be outrun by a gisti interceptor? And to hell with the kinetic missile damage bonus. Lets go one step further than 5% to all missile damage and straight out give it a double rof bonus'.
Bonus' should be:
5% heavy missile rof and 5% shield resists per battlecruiser lvl
and
5% heavy missile rof and 10% missile flight time per command ships level.
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Malthros Zenobia
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Posted - 2006.04.14 03:43:00 -
[74]
Originally by: Xeris
Bonus' should be:
5% heavy missile rof and 5% shield resists per battlecruiser lvl
and
5% heavy missile rof and 10% missile flight time per command ships level.
Yes because T2 BCs are suppose to be all-out combat ships, and not gang-support ships*.
*Yes Im aware they suck at this role and with good leadership skills a ferox is just as good, that's what needs to be fixed, not making CBCs into the next step up from HACs.
Originally by: Dark Shikari
Istvaan Shogaatsu's ego, when combined with a veldspar asteroid, would create 500 titans. Too bad he's never mined.
RAWR!11 Sig Hijack!11 - Imaran |
LOPEZ
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Posted - 2006.04.14 05:14:00 -
[75]
/me shakes his head.. ive orbited precision cerby and carracles with a gisti mwd and no speed implants.. and guess what .2 damage 4tw!..
Just because a ship is saposed to hit smaller ships better doesnt mean it will. You go fast enough and nothing will hit u. Dont forget about transversal velosity too. Next ull see someone complain that a turrent dictor cant hit a ceptor too.
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Denrace
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Posted - 2006.04.14 17:13:00 -
[76]
Edited by: Denrace on 14/04/2006 17:14:45
Originally by: Deva Blackfire
Edited by: Deva Blackfire on 13/04/2006 10:27:38
Quote:
Can't kill small ships, can't kill big ships.
Omfg... "Cant kill small ships that are set up for speed SPECIFICALLY TO EVADE ENEMY GUNS AND MISSILES".
Try it against AFs, t1 frigs, dessys, interdictors or even t1 cruisers. They WILL die.
As for designed role, look at dictors and dessys:
Additionally, much like their destroyer-class progenitors, they are well-suited to offensive strikes against frigate-sized craft.
Boost dictors and dessys! Cause fighting against AFs just asks for problems.
Dude, you HAVE NOT FLOWN A NH!!!
I fly one and my friend flies one.
As a test, I fly my Vengeance AF at him.
200mm plate, small rep, thermal harnder, thats it.
He struggled to kill me with precisions and 3 BCU II.
The nighthawk is NOT VERY EFFICIENT for frig killing. Get this inside your head.
On a similar note, any other FCS will hit a dessy and T1 cruiser TWICE AS HARD. Thus rendering half your argument here hopelessly redundant.
Den
________________________________________
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j0sephine
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Posted - 2006.04.14 21:36:00 -
[77]
"1) nighthawk has to have a role. It has 1/5th of the DPS of other Command ships because its designed as antifrig."
Am not even sure at this point if Nighthawk is actually 'designed as antifrig'. While the precision-related boosts on the ship may indicate she's to be used against small targets, it makes little sense to use her in such role because the overall damage output is so low, even though she _can_ hit things she's still very ineffective. I mean, a team of 2 Harpies can hit just as hard, with considerably more precision and speed, and would be also tough to rid of. (just ask Ginger ;s
For all we know the lack of damage could be intended because Tux operates under belief missile ship being long range yadda yadda is not supposed to deal high damage, as he mentioned earlier in another Nighthawk-related thread.
(nevermind of course turret ships of the same class with long range tech.2 ammo can shoot about equally far and still hit considerably harder, due to base damage difference >>;
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Maya Rkell
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Posted - 2006.04.14 21:43:00 -
[78]
Originally by: Malthros Zenobia
Originally by: Xeris
Bonus' should be:
5% heavy missile rof and 5% shield resists per battlecruiser lvl
and
5% heavy missile rof and 10% missile flight time per command ships level.
Yes because T2 BCs are suppose to be all-out combat ships, and not gang-support ships*.
*Yes Im aware they suck at this role and with good leadership skills a ferox is just as good, that's what needs to be fixed, not making CBCs into the next step up from HACs.
We're agreeing. This has to spell the End Of Time.
"The Human eye is a marvelous device, with a very little effort it can overlook all but the most glaring injustice" - Quellchrist Falconer |
Malthros Zenobia
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Posted - 2006.04.15 01:46:00 -
[79]
Edited by: Malthros Zenobia on 15/04/2006 01:47:06
damn dbl post. Now that we got a search button, how about something that makes you wait 10 seconds between posts? I'm sure Dark Shikari will adapt.
Originally by: Dark Shikari
Istvaan Shogaatsu's ego, when combined with a veldspar asteroid, would create 500 titans. Too bad he's never mined.
RAWR!11 Sig Hijack!11 - Imaran |
Malthros Zenobia
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Posted - 2006.04.15 01:46:00 -
[80]
Originally by: Maya Rkell
We're agreeing. This has to spell the End Of Time.
It just means you're right for a change maybe.
Originally by: Dark Shikari
Istvaan Shogaatsu's ego, when combined with a veldspar asteroid, would create 500 titans. Too bad he's never mined.
RAWR!11 Sig Hijack!11 - Imaran |
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Vina
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Posted - 2006.04.15 03:59:00 -
[81]
Originally by: j0sephine
For all we know the lack of damage could be intended because Tux operates under belief missile ship being long range yadda yadda is not supposed to deal high damage, as he mentioned earlier in another Nighthawk-related thread.
nevermind the fact that heavy missiles on the nighthawk go like 50km, yea it's such a longrange ship....
-----------------------------------
btw, threatening to close 1 account really hurt my eyes. - xaioguai |
Soul Purge
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Posted - 2006.04.15 04:26:00 -
[82]
Originally by: Armi Tage
for all the guys that can't read, the first hit for 176.something was on another ship not the crow he hit for 0.2
For those of you who can't read the first shot was on a rifter.
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j0sephine
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Posted - 2006.04.15 05:04:00 -
[83]
"For those of you who can't read the first shot was on a rifter."
A Nighthawk, ship with precision bonus and shooting tech.2 precision Scourge missile hit a tech.1 frigate for 176 hp. Impressive? A must-have ship? You decide:
* precision missile has base explosion radius of 50 m.
* with relevant skill alone this comes down to 37.5 m.
* signature radius of Rifter is 35 m.
* which means heavy precision missile shot at Rifter will do 93% of full damage without Nighthawk precision bonus.
* this means Cerberus in typical configuration and with skills, will hit that Rifter for ~182.5 hp on shield, 228 hp on armour and 304 hp on structure.
* a Caracal in typical configuration firing that missile at the same Rifter will hit it for 172.6 hp on shield, 215 hp on armour and 287 hp on structure.
... yup, even Caracal can hit tech.1 frigate just as hard as the tech.2 battlecruiser 'specialized' in taking out small crafts. Doesn't even need the light missiles for that.
As long as tech.2 precision missiles remain in game, they make the precision-relevant boosts of Nighthawk obsolete while hitting frigates of regular size, and still largely ineffective while hitting interceptors.
In the meantime, we can have fun on the forum mocking the pointless ship some more --;;
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Xeris
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Posted - 2006.04.15 05:28:00 -
[84]
Originally by: Malthros Zenobia
Originally by: Xeris
Bonus' should be:
5% heavy missile rof and 5% shield resists per battlecruiser lvl
and
5% heavy missile rof and 10% missile flight time per command ships level.
Yes because T2 BCs are suppose to be all-out combat ships, and not gang-support ships*.
I know; because the Astarte, Absolution, and Sleipnar arn't a step up from HAC's. Oh wait...
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Alyth
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Posted - 2006.04.15 06:41:00 -
[85]
Originally by: El Verbatim
Originally by: Armi Tage
for all the guys that can't read, the first hit for 176.something was on another ship not the crow he hit for 0.2
Doesn't matter.... crow is going insanely fast and faster then missile velocity. Try hitting it with a turret... it does seem to hit the rifter pretty hard. Last time I checked that was also a frigate.
I would like to know how fast that rifter was moving too when you shot at it because it's nota particularly slow ship itself. Even with precision bonuses I think inties deserve that extra level of protection from missiles/turrets/whatver that their speed gives them. Without that what else do they have going for them? You might as well discard them and use T1 frigs instead.
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F'nog
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Posted - 2006.04.15 07:02:00 -
[86]
So, and I just want to be clear, this thread has nothing to do with the lack of cat's ears on the Nighthawk?
Originally by: Bl4zer
But, cmon, this is the Eve forums, we don't let facts get in the way of pointless speculation.
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Maverick Aeldrin
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Posted - 2006.04.16 06:21:00 -
[87]
Maybe someone can answer the difference between nighthawk, caracal, and cerberus vs frigates when using Tech 1 heavy missiles?
(Sure precision might not make much impact, but say you dont want to suffer the penalties for the precision ammo)
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j0sephine
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Posted - 2006.04.16 12:38:00 -
[88]
Edited by: j0sephine on 16/04/2006 12:40:44
"Maybe someone can answer the difference between nighthawk, caracal, and cerberus vs frigates when using Tech 1 heavy missiles?"
with maxed out relevant skills, using tech.2 launchers, shooting a 35 m large target i.e. average frigate:
* Nighthawk (3x damage mod): 148 dps with kinetic, 118.6 dps with other missiles
* Cerberus (3x damage mod): 122 dps with kinetic, 97.6 dps with other missiles
* Caracal (2x damage mod): , 82.6 dps with kinetic, 66 dps with other missiles
despite precision bonus Nighthawk doesn't outdamage non-specialized Cerberus by more than 20% due to lower base damage output... caused by RoF bonus being granted to only one of these ships.
(the precision bonus is quite small, so even with it maxed out Nighthawk firing regular heavy missiles still loses 50% of base damage -- explosion radius of missile is 70 m. Without the bonus the radius is 93.75 m and the damage output is down to ~37% of base)
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