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Its not a blob, its a fleet.

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Rells	Posted - 2006.04.11 15:54:00 - [1] Edited by: Rells on 11/04/2006 15:58:54 I have seen the word "blob" used to degrade combat in this game. You even see people talking about how to reduce the effectiveness of the blob and how to stop blob combat and so on. Quite frankly this seems silly at best to me. Its not a blob, its a fleet. A fleet is "A number of warships operating together under one command.." The fact that it was not your command and you got killed is hardly the reason to decide that Eve would suddenly be better off without fleet warfare. What shall we do, boil all PvP down to a series fo one on one encounters where the biggest ship wins and l33t speaking players can boast about their poweress? I personally dont want to see the abolishment of "the blob". Fleet warfare has thousands of tactics and endless variation that make it far more interesting than single one on one combat. If anything I would like to see the enhancement of fleet combat. Those that get caught alone by another fleet will just have to suck it up and realize they goofed. Throughout military history groups of small combatants have engaged larger, better equipped foes and won. I dont want to see that aboulished. There are always those that will read the above and then come in with a satement like, "Yeah but this warp in and 20 battleships firing at primary target assuming he doesnt warp away stuff stinks." First of all, it does stink of boredom because those fleets often spend more time not fighting than fighting. But the fault lies in the fleet commanders and not the game. Instead of dealing with all of their ships, they scorn anyone not in a BS and tell all their tacklers that they are "disposable" already throwing them out like used kleenex. Consequently those poeple dont show up anymore because they know the fleet commander doesnt care. The fleet commander is also being foolish in not thinking out of the box about new tactics that are more creative that "primary target, secondary target." They dont think about organizing fire teams, fitting as a fleet, having preplanned maneuvers or any of the other things that modern military commanders think about. Do you think the admirals of the US navy just calls primary target? The fault is in players, not the game. My corp has demonstrated that we can kill snipers 200km off the gate with a bunch of frigs. How? Tactics. If anything, fleet warfare needs to be enhanced. There are FEW if any decisive battles in Eve. People dont want to loose their BS and they spend a lot of time safe spotted or docked and pinning them is difficult at best. By the time the tacklers fly that 100km they are dead or the other fleet warps off. There needs to be more mechanisms to create decisive combats. Just some ideas off the top of my head are. * Interdictors should be able to fire bubbles AT enemies. * Warp jammers should be much easier to run on smaller ships and they should have an ability to fire a tag at the target jamming it for 2 min rather than having to stay in range. * Effective ranges of deployable warp bubbles should be increased radically. Its psychotic that a ship as fast as an interceptor can deploy a better jhammer than setting up a jammer and waiting a minute to put it online. Small bubbles should work up to 20km and mediums to 50km. * Deployable warp bubbles should pull people out of deep warp so you could deploy them in between 2 stargates in the middle and catch people. The problem is also that the tools for controlling the fleet are apalling at best. The problem isnt the blob. The problem is players not liking getting hit when alone by a FLEET. The problem is also the lack of DECISIVE battles in Eve. battles where 80 or 90% of ships in a side will be lost, not 1 battleship of 35. -- Rells ◄ Isnt it time you learned how to fight back? ◄ Agony Unleashed PvP University: ◄ Click here to find out more!
mirel yirrin	Posted - 2006.04.11 15:56:00 - [2] Edited by: mirel yirrin on 11/04/2006 15:57:59 I love you Rells --------------------------------- CEO of teh Jenny Spitfire Fanclub. Wanna Join? Convo meh IG.
Rells	Posted - 2006.04.11 15:59:00 - [3] Originally by: mirel yirrin Edited by: mirel yirrin on 11/04/2006 15:57:59 I love you Rells Sorry, Im married. -- Rells ◄ Isnt it time you learned how to fight back? ◄ Agony Unleashed PvP University: ◄ Click here to find out more!
mirel yirrin	Posted - 2006.04.11 16:01:00 - [4] Edited by: mirel yirrin on 11/04/2006 16:05:38 Originally by: Rells Originally by: mirel yirrin Edited by: mirel yirrin on 11/04/2006 15:57:59 I love you Rells Sorry, Im married. NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO --------------------------------- CEO of teh Jenny Spitfire Fanclub. Wanna Join? Convo meh IG.
Jon Hawkes	Posted - 2006.04.11 16:01:00 - [5] From what I see on these forums, most of the complaints about so-called blob warfare come from large groups of players who will happily target small gangs or individuals, but then retreat to a safespot when another fleet that comes close to matching them warps in. I agree with Rells though; properly organised fleet combat in Eve (lag allowing) is fine and I can't see CCP raising the nerfbat against it any time soon.
Rells	Posted - 2006.04.11 16:04:00 - [6] Edited by: Rells on 11/04/2006 16:05:26 Originally by: mirel yirrin Originally by: Rells Originally by: mirel yirrin Edited by: mirel yirrin on 11/04/2006 15:57:59 I love you Rells Sorry, Im married. NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO .. snip Its bloody annoying when someone puts in long text and messes up the flow of the forum. Originally by: Jon Hawkes From what I see on these forums, most of the complaints about so-called blob warfare come from large groups of players who will happily target small gangs or individuals, but then retreat to a safespot when another fleet that comes close to matching them warps in. I agree with Rells though; properly organised fleet combat in Eve (lag allowing) is fine and I can't see CCP raising the nerfbat against it any time soon. Hence my statement that the problem is not enough decisive battles. Its far too easy to hide in the game and far far too easy to get away. A fleet of battleships engaging in 0.0 should have a very hard time disengaging. Any military commander today will tell you that disengaging the enemy is very hard. In eve its pathetically easy. Stay outside 20km and you are fine. I think warp jammers should work a heck of a lot further out as well. -- Rells ◄ Isnt it time you learned how to fight back? ◄ Agony Unleashed PvP University: ◄ Click here to find out more!
mirel yirrin	Posted - 2006.04.11 16:06:00 - [7] Originally by: Rells [ Its bloody annoying when someone makes a extra-long post and messes up the flow of the forums Sorry. Edited for longness --------------------------------- CEO of teh Jenny Spitfire Fanclub. Wanna Join? Convo meh IG.
Speed Devil	Posted - 2006.04.11 16:09:00 - [8] ur ideas suck nuff' said
Gungankllr	Posted - 2006.04.11 16:10:00 - [9] I'd like to see Interdictors fire "Interdiction Missiles", which have a "flash in the pan" type interdiction time frame, no longer than 10-15 seconds. I'd like to see large warp bubbles seeded. I'd like to see Citadel Torpedos do splash damage. I'd like to see Flak Cannons. I'd like to see Tech II Destroyers. I'd like to see Light Freighters. I'd like to see Foundry Ships. I'd like to see Eliza Dushku on my speed dial on my cell phone, and know she wouldn't just hang up on me. I'd like to see mining laser range extenders, and roid scanners that are settable to focus or area effect. I'd like to see Capital-Class shield and armor extenders. I'd like to see a lot of things. Fleet battles is one of them. Managable fleet battles is one of them. Blobs exist because people don't want to lose, so they bring more people. Fleets get bigger, blobs get bigger. Impressive? Absolutely. Managable? Only if you're a good fleet commander.
mirel yirrin	Posted - 2006.04.11 16:11:00 - [10] Originally by: Speed Devil ur ideas suck nuff' said Someone got ganked by the Rells Noob Gank Fleet and is annoyed by it. Post with you main, if you got the balls. --------------------------------- CEO of teh Jenny Spitfire Fanclub. Wanna Join? Convo meh IG.
SunWuKong	Posted - 2006.04.11 16:11:00 - [11] For the most part I agree. This game could use an in-game VoIP or a way to organize chat channels (able to division channels so that 1st leader types, it is seen in all channels; squadron leaders type, it is seen in the squadron channel; something like that with the VoIP or the chat channels). Also, make the tactical overlay more useful by allowing color coded flashing lights able to be assigned by commanders/squadron leaders to point out targets (specific colors set to the type of target, such as tackler, EW ship, tanker, gangker, etc.) Thirdly, anything that makes every type of ship more critical and needed in battles is a plus to me. (From frigs - titans).
Rells	Posted - 2006.04.11 16:12:00 - [12] Originally by: mirel yirrin Originally by: Speed Devil ur ideas suck nuff' said Someone got ganked by the Rells Noob Gank Fleet and is annoyed by it. Post with you main, if you got the balls. Prolly the scorp pilot. He had some nice gear. -- Rells ◄ Isnt it time you learned how to fight back? ◄ Agony Unleashed PvP University: ◄ Click here to find out more!
mirel yirrin	Posted - 2006.04.11 16:12:00 - [13] Originally by: Gungankllr I'd like to see Eliza Dushku on my speed dial on my cell phone, and know she wouldn't just hang up on me. --------------------------------- CEO of teh Jenny Spitfire Fanclub. Wanna Join? Convo meh IG.
mirel yirrin	Posted - 2006.04.11 16:14:00 - [14] Originally by: Rells Originally by: mirel yirrin Originally by: Speed Devil ur ideas suck nuff' said Someone got ganked by the Rells Noob Gank Fleet and is annoyed by it. Post with you main, if you got the balls. Prolly the scorp pilot. He had some nice gear. I bet he got a massive suprise when 60 frigs descended on him. --------------------------------- CEO of teh Jenny Spitfire Fanclub. Wanna Join? Convo meh IG.
Rells	Posted - 2006.04.11 16:15:00 - [15] Originally by: mirel yirrin Originally by: Rells Originally by: mirel yirrin Originally by: Speed Devil ur ideas suck nuff' said Someone got ganked by the Rells Noob Gank Fleet and is annoyed by it. Post with you main, if you got the balls. Prolly the scorp pilot. He had some nice gear. I bet he got a massive suprise when 60 frigs descended on him. only 26. -- Rells ◄ Isnt it time you learned how to fight back? ◄ Agony Unleashed PvP University: ◄ Click here to find out more!
HippoKing	Posted - 2006.04.11 16:16:00 - [16] definitions time: blob: a large amount of enemy ships fleet: a large amount of friendly ships Win a Cerberus!! sigs of the 23/24/25 hijack just as well -eris yarrrr, i shall retake my sig -HippoKing Not a chance, our 1337 sig haXx0r sk1llz are too powerful! - Wrangler Ho-Ho-Hooooooo, Merry Saturday!11 - Immy Yo ho ho and a bottle of BReeEEEEeee.... - Jacques ARRRRRRchambault Stop spamming with "QFT" >:\|. - Teblin
Unholy Preacher	Posted - 2006.04.11 16:19:00 - [17] "how bout we settle this in this in the old manner ? your best fighter versus my best fighter ?" "BOOOOOOAGRRRIUUUUUUUUUS !!!!!" chant chant chant chant "GROWWWWWL" "ACHILLLEEESSSSSSSSSSSSS" giggle giggle giggle giggle *fast forward 10 minutes past the nude orgy scene (sorry) "look at their faces achilles, you could save all their isk ! with a single shot of your HAC" "if only fleet commanders would fight their own battles, what a sight that would be" that is all, move along
mirel yirrin	Posted - 2006.04.11 16:19:00 - [18] Originally by: Rells Originally by: mirel yirrin Originally by: Rells Originally by: mirel yirrin Originally by: Speed Devil ur ideas suck nuff' said Someone got ganked by the Rells Noob Gank Fleet and is annoyed by it. Post with you main, if you got the balls. Prolly the scorp pilot. He had some nice gear. I bet he got a massive suprise when 60 frigs descended on him. only 26. Lol, Death by a thousand Cuts! I'd like to do a experiment at some point, with my Massivly Tanked Uber scorpion. Think 5 TII extenders, Cap injector, Amp and XL TII Sheild booster, 4x TII 1600mm plates As many Assult missile launchers fitted as possible, loaded with TII Bloodclaws. In a fight without Ewar, it would probly win. Maybe. --------------------------------- CEO of teh Jenny Spitfire Fanclub. Wanna Join? Convo meh IG.
Tiel Nova	Posted - 2006.04.11 16:25:00 - [19] Huh. The only person to disagree doesn't have the presence of mind to actually say why. Typical. Anyway, I haven't done much pvp, but I can see some great fleet battles happening with some/all of your ideas. However, there is a downside to solo play. Imagine trying to run from a gank and getting hit with a scrambler missile, even though your ship is twice as fast as anything chasing you. I like the idea of remote disable to encourage people who are engaged to actually fight it out instead of crying to momma, but it should be restricted to fleet battles. So maybe a small group of frigates needs to work in conjuction to scramble targets, using complimentary modules. The more frigs grouped, the more range they have and the more targets they can scramble. Perhaps some modules that assist other ships (IE, the aformentioned group scramble) require command ships present in the fleet in order to work. Basically, if the ability to trap fleets is going to be upgraded, it should be LESS effective against solo targets, not MORE effective.
Ominus Decre	Posted - 2006.04.11 16:31:00 - [20] Originally by: Gungankllr I'd like to see Interdictors fire "Interdiction Missiles", which have a "flash in the pan" type interdiction time frame, no longer than 10-15 seconds. I'd like to see large warp bubbles seeded. I'd like to see Citadel Torpedos do splash damage. I'd like to see Flak Cannons. I'd like to see Tech II Destroyers. I'd like to see Light Freighters. I'd like to see Foundry Ships. I'd like to see Eliza Dushku on my speed dial on my cell phone, and know she wouldn't just hang up on me. I'd like to see mining laser range extenders, and roid scanners that are settable to focus or area effect. I'd like to see Capital-Class shield and armor extenders. I'd like to see a lot of things. Fleet battles is one of them. Managable fleet battles is one of them. Blobs exist because people don't want to lose, so they bring more people. Fleets get bigger, blobs get bigger. Impressive? Absolutely. Managable? Only if you're a good fleet commander. Good post! Blob "n : an indistinct shapeless form" I would also like to see a vareity of things mentioned in the quote. I would also like to see: Specialized Electronic Warfare ships. (give the non-specials reduced effects) Larger Splash damage from certain types of missles and/or rockets. Specialized Anti-Missle ships with effective "defender missles". Boobies:
Rells	Posted - 2006.04.11 16:34:00 - [21] Originally by: mirel yirrin Lol, Death by a thousand Cuts! I'd like to do a experiment at some point, with my Massivly Tanked Uber scorpion. Think 5 TII extenders, Cap injector, Amp and XL TII Sheild booster, 4x TII 1600mm plates As many Assult missile launchers fitted as possible, loaded with TII Bloodclaws. In a fight without Ewar, it would probly win. Maybe. You would have multiple sensor dampeners and ECM jammers hitting you. Your targeting time on one frig would be 90 seconds or more and in that 90 seconds you are likely to be flat jammed. There is much more. Vs 30 ships it would be only a matter of time before we got you. -- Rells ◄ Isnt it time you learned how to fight back? ◄ Agony Unleashed PvP University: ◄ Click here to find out more!
Shamis Orzoz	Posted - 2006.04.11 16:34:00 - [22] A blob is when you bring a enough people so as to outnumber your opponent by so much that there is no reason for them to even attempt to fight you. Blobbers use large fleets in an effort to achieve risk free PvP. What the usually end up with is no PvP. The only instance where a blob really makes any sense is when conquering stations or sieging pos's, in which case you don't really want to fight the enemy, you want to blow up their stuff. Shamis
Tiel Nova	Posted - 2006.04.11 16:34:00 - [23] That anti-missile ship idea is good. Destroyers with really short range cannons that have crazy firing rates. Stick close to battleships and anything hostile that gets too close gets ate. Basically point defense ships with chain cannons.
mirel yirrin	Posted - 2006.04.11 16:37:00 - [24] Originally by: Rells Originally by: mirel yirrin Lol, Death by a thousand Cuts! I'd like to do a experiment at some point, with my Massivly Tanked Uber scorpion. Think 5 TII extenders, Cap injector, Amp and XL TII Sheild booster, 4x TII 1600mm plates As many Assult missile launchers fitted as possible, loaded with TII Bloodclaws. In a fight without Ewar, it would probly win. Maybe. You would have multiple sensor dampeners and ECM jammers hitting you. Your targeting time on one frig would be 90 seconds or more and in that 90 seconds you are likely to be flat jammed. There is much more. Vs 30 ships it would be only a matter of time before we got you. Yeah, in a fight without Ewar. Of course, the Ewar is a important part of the frig blob's tactics. I could set it up as a DiscoScorp. Lots of TII large Smartbombs. Muhaha. --------------------------------- CEO of teh Jenny Spitfire Fanclub. Wanna Join? Convo meh IG.
Bhaal	Posted - 2006.04.11 16:38:00 - [25] Originally by: mirel yirrin Originally by: Rells [ Its bloody annoying when someone makes a extra-long post and messes up the flow of the forums Sorry. Edited for longness I don't need to be edited for longness, my longness is just fine... Just wanted you all to know that... Move along, nothing to see here... ------------------------------------------------ Current Hobby other than EVE My Hero
mirel yirrin	Posted - 2006.04.11 16:39:00 - [26] Originally by: Bhaal Originally by: mirel yirrin Originally by: Rells [ Its bloody annoying when someone makes a extra-long post and messes up the flow of the forums Sorry. Edited for longness I don't need to be edited for longness, my longness is just fine... Just wanted you all to know that... Move along, nothing to see here... ooh. --------------------------------- CEO of teh Jenny Spitfire Fanclub. Wanna Join? Convo meh IG.
Rells	Posted - 2006.04.11 16:55:00 - [27] Originally by: mirel yirrin Yeah, in a fight without Ewar. A fleet commander of a frig fleet would have to be a total newb or idiot to not have EWAR. Originally by: mirel yirrin Of course, the Ewar is a important part of the frig blob's tactics. Exactly .. its part of a Frig FLEET's tactics. Originally by: mirel yirrin I could set it up as a DiscoScorp. Lots of TII large Smartbombs. Muhaha. Wouldnt work, I teach them to set up for orbit outside smartbomb range. -- Rells ◄ Isnt it time you learned how to fight back? ◄ Agony Unleashed PvP University: ◄ Click here to find out more!
Rikkard Strofeldt	Posted - 2006.04.11 17:29:00 - [28] Originally by: "mirel yirrin" I love you Rells Aww, isn't that sweet. Originally by: "Rells" Sorry, Im married. I guess you'll have to make do with me mirel Gungankllr, I'd rather have Eliza Dusku on my lap. Allison Hannigan would be even better . A lot of good stuff in there though. I like it. I like some of the interdiction ideas. Set up so you can pull people out of warp when they're moving between gates. I also think the should be an interdictor missles, along the lines of the LDSI missles in IWar. When a ship starts the warp, fire this missle. It chases them up the warp tunnel, explodes when it gets to them, creating a temporary deadspace pocket, and sends a bookmark to the friendly fleet. They can then warp in and WTFBBQPWN the guy that ran away. Naturally using such a missle in hi-sec will cause CONCORD to greet you. Even funnier if they greet you where the interdictor missle went off A devil I may be, but I am trying to help you. You just don't realise it yet.
Ithildin	Posted - 2006.04.11 17:50:00 - [29] Originally by: Gungankllr I'd like to see Interdictors fire "Interdiction Missiles", which have a "flash in the pan" type interdiction time frame, no longer than 10-15 seconds. Neat. Give to Zim! Quote: I'd like to see large warp bubbles seeded. About damned time. Quote: I'd like to see Citadel Torpedos do splash damage. Would make them interesting, for certain Quote: I'd like to see Flak Cannons. ... in addition or as replacement for defenders, yes! Quote: I'd like to see Tech II Destroyers. Well... we have them, but you mean more combaty or possibly tier 2? Quote: I'd like to see Light Freighters. Yer! Quote: I'd like to see Foundry Ships. Mobile construction yards? Or is this mobile refineries? Quote: I'd like to see Eliza Dushku on my speed dial on my cell phone, and know she wouldn't just hang up on me. Googled and can't but agree. Quote: I'd like to see mining laser range extenders, and roid scanners that are settable to focus or area effect. What kind of DPS on those... "mining" lasers? Don't Tracking Computers work for them? And why would anyone want Hemorrhoid scanners? (I'll second the scanner thingy) Quote: I'd like to see Capital-Class shield and armor extenders. Most nasty. Regeneratives double in meanwhile. Actually, Regeneratives might be better in either case due to fitting requirements. Quote: I'd like to see a lot of things. ... I've seen things Quote: Fleet battles is one of them. They happen quite often, although lately I've seen a decline, sadly. People just don't grab their guns and pitchforks well enough anymore. Quote: Managable fleet battles is one of them. Tough one. Are you implying local/server lag? Or are you implying, perhaps, the actual game-side managability, if so then you need a special mindset, really. Quote: Blobs exist because people don't want to lose, so they bring more people. Blobs, I've noticed, is mostly defined as a "fleet bigger than ours". Yes, you are correct. Lots of blobs who don't want to loose. Interesting side-effect is that they seldom win, cause they "blob". Fleets get bigger, blobs get bigger. Hmm, no. ASCN and/or BoB fleets get bigger, the rest I don't know about. Back in old days the fleets were quite big (etc etc) Impressive? Absolutely. Nah. Arkanor > Gallente missileboat might be cool. KilROCK > Pod yourself till you got no skills left
Viktor Fyretracker	Posted - 2006.04.11 18:09:00 - [30] Blob was invented by those not versed in MMO speak, its suppost to be Zerg......

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