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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 3 post(s) |
Sonoske Kautsuo
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2014.02.20 01:47:00 -
[1] - Quote
So first off I am about a 3 week old Eve player, I decided to get some money with plexes so I could invest in the market of buying and selling, I came across a buy order today that wanted 3 Tuvan Modified Kinetic Plating for 2.5billion isk, I then purchased one for 839million isk. Their were only 4 of them on the market. Then when I attempt to sell it to this person it would not let me sell it. I was stumped thinking it was some sort of ****** up exploit.
Then as I looked into it further I noticed he only accepts 3 at a time not 2.5bill each, yes I overlooked this but again I was blinded buy the fact that it was a possible error by a player and I tried to get money off of it. Someone posted in local "to bad I don't have money to buy this, look at the market error (link to item)"
Now all the other buy orders are below 150mill, making me think that maybe he tried to do 250mill in a buy order and added an extra 0 by accident making it 2.5 billion. I think he purchased all of them off of the market then puts them up their at inflated prices, then makes a stupid sell order that may catch someone off guard, like me. Now I could only buy one so now I cannot sell it back to him to make my money back because I would need 3 of the said item. So basically if he got them for a lot cheaper he just made profit on me and I cannot get it back because of how he has it set up.
Now I am not even sure if I can resell this item for even 750mill, unless someone else see this little scheme and has the money to fall for it. Basically making me have to then link, " look at this market glitch" man this is ******* stupid
Do you think this was a scam? |
RAW23
695
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Posted - 2014.02.20 01:56:00 -
[2] - Quote
Sonoske Kautsuo wrote:Now I could only buy one so now I cannot sell it back to him to make my money back because I would need 3 of the said item. So basically if he got them for a lot cheaper he just made profit on me and I cannot get it back because of how he has it set up.
Actually, you are lucky you could only afford one. If you had purchased three and tried to sell all of them to him his buy order would have been cancelled as it was set up using the margin trading skill and backed by only a proportion of the total value in escrow. If he didn't have enough in his wallet to complete the purchase the transaction would fail and his order would disappear entirely, leaving you with three of the overpriced items. This is known as 'the margin trading scam'.
CCP have announced that they want to change the mechanic but they are not sure how to do this yet as margin trading is an important part of the economy of eve. In the meantime scams like this go on. Basically, as a new player expect scams in eve and if a business deal seems too good to be true then assume it probably is and seek advice before going ahead with it. Asking about this in the rookie channel would probably have informed you of the situation. There are two types of EVE player:
those who believe there are two types of EVE player and those who do not. |
Almiel
The Mjolnir Bloc
9
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Posted - 2014.02.20 01:56:00 -
[3] - Quote
Classic margin trading scam. Welcome to eve where if it looks too good to be true, it most definitely is. |
Arsine Mayhem
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
131
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Posted - 2014.02.20 02:04:00 -
[4] - Quote
It is the greedy that get scammed.
If you're 3 weeks into the game, why do you need that much isk? |
Agondray
Avenger Mercenaries VOID Intergalactic Forces
31
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Posted - 2014.02.20 02:20:00 -
[5] - Quote
Market PVP |
Sonoske Kautsuo
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2014.02.20 02:25:00 -
[6] - Quote
Well I have always been good at playing the market in mmos, however I do not understand enough of the markets mechanics yet, therefore I got scammed by something that seemed to be a good deal, in most mmos scams are done by player to player not market interactions since most devs make those solid to prevent exploits.
And honestly even though I am 3 weeks old I love making in game money even if I have no use for it. I sit around and train skills, would be nice to train skills work the market and in 6 months from now have a sweet ship with plenty of high end upgrades that keep it alive.
I can use a Raven right now, but if I hop into one I have low lvl rigging and cant use most of the tech 2 mods. I would get raped! So I train up stuff and play the market. Sucks that I blew like about 30 bucks in isk.
If I was scammed by a player interaction then that's one thing. But this is stupid, it seem like more of an exploit. |
Elizabeth Norn
Nornir Research
168
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Posted - 2014.02.20 02:28:00 -
[7] - Quote
Do your research in future, check the price history tab and a little googling.
Sonoske Kautsuo wrote:If I was scammed by a player interaction then that's one thing. But this is stupid, it seem like more of an exploit.
This was as much of a player interaction as any other market order is. They had to train the skill, buy the items, list the items, create the buy order and spam their message, you thought you could capitalize on someone else's mistake, while they did so on yours. It's a game mechanic like any other, you just needed to slow down and find out what was really going on. .
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RAW23
695
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Posted - 2014.02.20 02:38:00 -
[8] - Quote
Sonoske Kautsuo wrote:Well I have always been good at playing the market in mmos, however I do not understand enough of the markets mechanics yet, therefore I got scammed by something that seemed to be a good deal, in most mmos scams are done by player to player not market interactions since most devs make those solid to prevent exploits.
And honestly even though I am 3 weeks old I love making in game money even if I have no use for it. I sit around and train skills, would be nice to train skills work the market and in 6 months from now have a sweet ship with plenty of high end upgrades that keep it alive.
I can use a Raven right now, but if I hop into one I have low lvl rigging and cant use most of the tech 2 mods. I would get raped! So I train up stuff and play the market. Sucks that I blew like about 30 bucks in isk.
If I was scammed by a player interaction then that's one thing. But this is stupid, it seem like more of an exploit.
I understand how you feel but this is really a player interaction, just one that uses the mechanisms of the market to effect the scam. Now, you mentioned that you would like to train up your trading skills. If you had done this then you would have learned how the margin trading skill works - basically it lets you place buy orders by putting down a deposit for the value of the order, allowing people to effectively trade in large numbers of orders that will not all fill at once rather than sitting watching a much smaller number. Margin trading in this way is somewhat analogous to real life but in RL there are social mechanisms in place that would prevent someone exploiting the system to steal money. In eve there are none and there does not seem to be any easy way to allow margin trading in the game without also leaving the possibility of this scam open. Margin trading is too important to get rid of to avoid the small number of cases in which such scams take place so we are left with the situation we are in.
Generally in eve you will frequently encounter players using their ingenuity to exploit loopholes in the system. CCP actively encourages this and defines an illegal 'exploit' quite narrowly in order to permit sandbox type emergent behaviour. You really only fell into this trap because you had an amount of isk that a player with your level of experience of the game should not have. Buying PLEXes can give you a push forward as a beginner but it is also a danger. Just as using isk from a PLEX to buy a shiny ship will make you a nice loot pinata for someone, so approaching the markets with an amount of money that is disproportionate to your experience also leaves you vulnerable. The lesson to be learned from this is that eve is a complex game, people will try just about anything to take advantage of you, and you should thoroughly research anything that you intend to plough a large proportion of your money into. There are two types of EVE player:
those who believe there are two types of EVE player and those who do not. |
Sabriz Adoudel
Mission BLITZ
2097
|
Posted - 2014.02.20 02:44:00 -
[9] - Quote
You got greedy, you got taught a lesson.
Most newbies that fall for something like that try to click on a contract and get told "you don't have enough ISK to make this transaction". (I've had that happen several times when I've posted scam contracts).
The majority of scamees are actually drunk veteran players, and if you log into EVE drunk, you deserve to suffer the consequences of doing so. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=238931 - an idea for a new form of hybrid PVE/PVP content. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=318489 - Proposal for a new type of tech 2 Destroyer If you want to mine in highsec, read www.minerbumping.com. |
Abidal Trekt
State War Academy Caldari State
4
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Posted - 2014.02.20 03:29:00 -
[10] - Quote
Not a great confidence boost for people looking to invest in your enterprise. Honestly though, don't sweat the small stuff. You can still recover and go on to make billions! |
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Almiel
The Mjolnir Bloc
10
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Posted - 2014.02.20 04:47:00 -
[11] - Quote
Sonoske Kautsuo wrote: in 6 months from now have a sweet ship with plenty of high end upgrades that keep it alive.
I can use a Raven right now, but if I hop into one I have low lvl rigging and cant use most of the tech 2 mods. I would get raped! So I train up stuff and play the market. Sucks that I blew like about 30 bucks in isk.
Another pro tip before you shed more tears: Don't fly what you can't afford to lose.
Don't come back with tears when you blow up your sweet ship with plenty of high end upgrades that didn't quite keep it alive. Love that last part too...high end upgrades |
Loraine Gess
Confedeferate Union of Tax Legalists
94
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Posted - 2014.02.20 05:35:00 -
[12] - Quote
Yes welcome to eve
Don't like it? Stay out, we don't need you.
You got taught a valuable lesson. |
Fiddlestax Atruin
Escrow Removal and Acquisition Negative-Feedback
0
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Posted - 2014.02.20 05:36:00 -
[13] - Quote
Buy Low, Sell High. A good rule to live by: You should only buy from a sell order to complete someone else's buy order if you are sure that the item sells for the vast majority of what you bought it for.
If you are buying the item for 10% more than it is usually worth, you should expect to lose 10%+Tax on it if you sell it immediately. Stay away from officer modules as a new pilot until you are sure of their value and usefulness. The margin trading scam operates on rare items for the most part. |
Kendra Coldera
Ripoff Industries
11
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Posted - 2014.02.20 10:16:00 -
[14] - Quote
The real sob story here is that that guy now has to find another plating for this to be working again! Or he adapts and changes it to 2 bought !
EDIT: And also: This, ladies and gentlemen, is why new players + ISK = set sail for fail! |
Myriad Blaze
Common Sense Ltd Nulli Secunda
159
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Posted - 2014.02.20 10:18:00 -
[15] - Quote
You should only trade items that you understand:
Where do the items come from? What are they good for? Are there other items that have a similar (or even better) effect? What is the price history of the item? What is the price volatility? The trade volume? Etc.
Also you need to be aware of the fact that there are dozens if not hundreds of other players constantly scanning the market looking for good margins - often using automated tools. If you stumble over something that looks like a great opportunity you should ask yourself why none of the others took advantage of it. And if someone posts something about an "Epic fail buyorder" in local (typically with a link) there is no (!) doubt that it's a scam.
As a newbie to this game you should assume that everything you read in local about contracts, market opportunities, direct trades "to save tax", isk doubling, gaming - generally anything that involves isk - is a scam. And if you see other people claiming that someone is "legit" and that they made isk - remember that people often have several accounts or bring friends to help with their scam. With time and experience (and probably after blocking 100s of scammers, spammers, beggars and other idiots) you will learn to identify the rare gems that pop up in local once in a while.
And with regard to your Raven - you are nowhere near capable to fly that ship anytime soon. As a beginner you really should do the tutorials and then start to PvE or PvP in T1 frigates and work your way up from there. If you wan't to do missions you will need the faction standing anyway. Plus you would learn very fast that bigger is not always better in this game (for example big ships have problems hitting small ships - if you bring your Raven to a frigate fight, you would most likely lose it).
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Roxanne Dallas
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
12
|
Posted - 2014.02.20 10:20:00 -
[16] - Quote
Almiel wrote:Classic margin trading scam. Welcome to eve where if it looks too good to be true, it most definitely is.
Well unless your moving it to another region because I very often manage to make 2 - 3x what I pay for something, but yeah when you get up to 100's of mill's difference per item it is likely going to be a scam or your just not going to be able to shift it at that price because no one will buy it.
Market trading is one big scam any ways, although this is a little more overt. |
Roxanne Dallas
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
12
|
Posted - 2014.02.20 10:29:00 -
[17] - Quote
Dude start off trading in an amount of isk that you can afford to lose I started with 200 mill even though I had 3 bill in my wallet so I could lose it and just not care that much, personally I doubled my money in about a day but thats just me. and I had already been playing for a while so.
But yeah just like when flying an expensive ship and you lose it the mantra will be "if you can't afford to lose it, don't fly it." which is true. but the same concept applies to trading.
It's a learning experience and not a nice one, but it's not likely a lesson you will forget any time soon. and it also applies to the real world. Just be thankful that you learned it in-game rather than IRL but you bought PLEX so I suppose you kind of did learn that lesson IRL... Oh well. |
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
2555
|
Posted - 2014.02.20 12:18:00 -
[18] - Quote
Sonoske Kautsuo wrote:So first off I am about a 3 week old Eve player, I decided to get some money with plexes so I could invest in the market of buying and selling, I came across a buy order today that wanted 3 Tuvan Modified Kinetic Plating for 2.5billion isk, I then purchased one for 839million isk. Their were only 4 of them on the market. Then when I attempt to sell it to this person it would not let me sell it. I was stumped thinking it was some sort of ****** up exploit. Then as I looked into it further I noticed he only accepts 3 at a time not 2.5bill each, yes I overlooked this but again I was blinded buy the fact that it was a possible error by a player and I tried to get money off of it. Someone posted in local "to bad I don't have money to buy this, look at the market error (link to item)" Now all the other buy orders are below 150mill, making me think that maybe he tried to do 250mill in a buy order and added an extra 0 by accident making it 2.5 billion. I think he purchased all of them off of the market then puts them up their at inflated prices, then makes a stupid sell order that may catch someone off guard, like me. Now I could only buy one so now I cannot sell it back to him to make my money back because I would need 3 of the said item. So basically if he got them for a lot cheaper he just made profit on me and I cannot get it back because of how he has it set up. Now I am not even sure if I can resell this item for even 750mill, unless someone else see this little scheme and has the money to fall for it. Basically making me have to then link, " look at this market glitch" man this is ******* stupid Do you think this was a scam? It happens.
So first, like other people have said: If it looks to good to be true, it is.
Now with that, you have a choice: 1. You can decide that you don;t want to put up with scams like this and you can stop playing EVE.
2. You can take it on the chin, learn from it (look up Margin trade scams) and work towards recouping your loss.
Both are perfectly valid and acceptable responses to the situation, and both have been taken up by various people. I'd say that option 2 sounds like it would suit you more if you enjoy marketing in games. The economy is EVE is far more complex and far more exciting than in most games, so it you've got the willingness to learn it and press on through errors in judgement which can cost you a lot (we've all bee there, just yesterday I refined 10b isk worth of material on the wrong character and lost a huge percentage... whoops) it can be huge amounts of fun. Don't fret too much about the plex. After time you'll be able to make more than a plex worth a month and can just save on a couple of subs to recoup (or sub in plex forever mua ha ha).
The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. |
flakeys
The Mjolnir Bloc The Bloc
2054
|
Posted - 2014.02.20 14:24:00 -
[19] - Quote
Sonoske Kautsuo wrote: in most mmos scams are done by player to player not market interactions since most devs make those solid to prevent exploits.
Sonoske Kautsuo wrote:and in 6 months from now have a sweet ship with plenty of high end upgrades that keep it alive.
Uhm just a little warning , in other mmorpgs you also have safe havens but this is not other mmorpgs ...
.. THIS IS SPARTAAAA ... uhm i mean EVE .
We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.
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Lord LazyGhost
The Bastards The Bastards.
303
|
Posted - 2014.02.20 14:27:00 -
[20] - Quote
Almiel wrote:Sonoske Kautsuo wrote: in 6 months from now have a sweet ship with plenty of high end upgrades that keep it alive.
I can use a Raven right now, but if I hop into one I have low lvl rigging and cant use most of the tech 2 mods. I would get raped! So I train up stuff and play the market. Sucks that I blew like about 30 bucks in isk.
Love that last part too...high end upgrades
same here lolz
watch list for future i think :) |
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Mu-Shi Ai
Ai Capital
220
|
Posted - 2014.02.20 14:36:00 -
[21] - Quote
Whatever you do, please don't join the "Nerf Margin Trading" bandwagon. Better off quitting the game if you're going to take that route.
Some practical advice: Learn the actual market for an item before you try to trade in it. Best way to avoid getting beaned like you did. Oh, and don't pay attention to any "deal" spammed in local chat. 99.99% of that stuff is scams. |
Magnu Stormhawk
Stormhawk Enterprises
35
|
Posted - 2014.02.20 15:06:00 -
[22] - Quote
Welcome to EVE
Every lesson costs money. The first lesson you have learned is "if it looks too good to be true, it probably is".
Other lessons you will learn on your journey through EVE, which will come at varying prices, are:
-Knowledge is power -Crime does pay -Trust No One
Good luck
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Volar Kang
NovaTech Academy Against ALL Anomalies
47
|
Posted - 2014.02.20 18:33:00 -
[23] - Quote
I like to think of Eve as a good way to prepare for your first stay in prison. Basically, every other player is just waiting for you to drop the soap so they can bend you over. My advice, get some soap-on-a-rope. The usual scams:
1. I will double your isk. The scammers actually help each other and post on each others threads how this is legit and they really did double their isk. NO ONE is going to double your isk. They may do a small bit to entice you to drop that soap but once you do.... BAM! You feel something you shouldn't.
2. People spamming about contracts in local with prices that are too good to be true. Most of the time they "forget" to plug in a number. They say you can buy this ship for 100mill but when you look closely at the contract you see it is actually listed for 1000mill. They are hoping you don't see the extra zero which makes you drop your soap and then BAM!
3. Pretty much anything in local is a scam. They do the margin thing and then post in local what a great deal it is. They post about a great website that they were able to buy something at really cheap, they say how much money they made from some isk gambling thing. The greedy side of you starts to look into it and then suddenly the soap gets very slippery.
Pretty much EVERYONE not in your corp and even a few in your corp are just waiting for you to drop that soap. They are sending you presents of grease and slick hand lotion hoping you use it and drop that soap. Sadly, they wont be using that lotion on your backside. You are gonna get full UN-LUBED penetration.
Dont get greedy, work for your money and do research before doing anything. |
flakeys
The Mjolnir Bloc The Bloc
2060
|
Posted - 2014.02.20 18:59:00 -
[24] - Quote
mmmmmmmmm soap
We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.
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Oiras Isimazu
State War Academy Caldari State
17
|
Posted - 2014.02.20 19:20:00 -
[25] - Quote
2.7380952381 times more efficient than loosing 2.3b |
Oiras Isimazu
State War Academy Caldari State
17
|
Posted - 2014.02.20 19:32:00 -
[26] - Quote
Like one of the poster referring me as a friend once mentionned: You might want to prepare for more serious economic warfare. |
SJ Astralana
Syncore
29
|
Posted - 2014.02.21 10:30:00 -
[27] - Quote
Nobody's stated the obvious: When in highsec, close local and never ever open it. Jesus it's not that hard really.
Eve Production Manager: https://dbsoft.atlassian.net/wiki/display/EPM/Eve+Production+Manager+User+Guide |
Entilarza
State War Academy Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2014.02.21 11:13:00 -
[28] - Quote
Sonoske Kautsuo wrote: And honestly even though I am 3 weeks old I love making in game money even if I have no use for it. I sit around and train skills, would be nice to train skills work the market and in 6 months from now have a sweet ship with plenty of high end upgrades that keep it alive.
Contairy to other MMOs having 'high end' upgrades doesnt keep you alive, it just paints a big shiny bullseye on you cockpit while writing all over you hull 'free isk'. Those high end stuff may keep you alive a few seconds longer in a gank but as it increases the lootable worth exponentially you will run across a lot more gankers.
Btw, hope you posted on alt as this one will most surely be on every 2. Gankers Watchlist |
Sonoske Kautsuo
Center for Industrial Services
0
|
Posted - 2014.02.21 11:22:00 -
[29] - Quote
Entilarza wrote:[quote=Sonoske Kautsuo]
Btw, hope you posted on alt as this one will most surely be on every 2. Gankers Watchlist
So what iv had no issues. Let them try eventually I will have the skill to defend myself. Besides I don't fly what I don't want to lose.
ATM I am sitting in wormhole space in a venture. If I die ooooo 100k is all I need to rebuild basically.
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Almiel
The Mjolnir Bloc
11
|
Posted - 2014.02.21 13:14:00 -
[30] - Quote
Sonoske Kautsuo wrote:Entilarza wrote:[quote=Sonoske Kautsuo]
Btw, hope you posted on alt as this one will most surely be on every 2. Gankers Watchlist So what iv had no issues. Let them try eventually I will have the skill to defend myself.
There is no defending against a good gank squad, only survival and that is just as much luck as skill. The gank catalyst puts out 600dps and costs under 10m to build, get a big enough group and nothing survives for long especially officer/faction/dead space fit ships.
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