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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Caviar Liberta
Moira.
Villore Accords
448
   |
Posted - 2014.02.20 15:31:00 -
[121] - Quote
Knights Armament wrote:Tippia wrote:Knights Armament wrote:Money only has value because the people in control claim it does, real value comes from power. So what you're saying is that the goons should be given access to the /spawn and /give commands so they can create items and ISK at will. Goons don't control the game CCP is God, thus its up to god to decide who has power.
"As I have said so many times, God doesn't play dice with the world." Albert Einstein |
flakeys
The Mjolnir Bloc
The Bloc
2056
|
Posted - 2014.02.20 16:12:00 -
[122] - Quote
Knights Armament wrote:Passive income is terrible for EvE, it reduces the activity spent by players in game, removes social requirements for earning income, and creates power blocs whose sole purpose is to farm isk endlessly thus inflating the economy for players who choose to actively play the game to earn income. Passive isk generation turns EvE into a Ghost town, no longer are miners needed to strip belts and work as a group, now all you need are moon mining pos's and botters to supply your Alliance with income.
Wait are you REALLY taking mining as the opposite of passive income ? 
We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.
|
embrel
BamBam Inc.
124
|
Posted - 2014.02.20 16:29:00 -
[123] - Quote
Knights Armament wrote:
Again power is what makes things valuable
No, it is not.
Basically, nothing is valuable. All values are subjective. It is like the beauty in the eye of the beerholder.
On a more practical and economic note: A use makes something valuable. |
Grunanca
Doughboys
Shadow Cartel
153
|
Posted - 2014.02.20 16:36:00 -
[124] - Quote
Knights Armament wrote:Anyone who thinks fiat currency is sustainable is a shill, anyone who thinks a resource based economy would make a better game is smart. Anyone who doesn't know the universe is expanding faster than light should read more. - thread
btw one word replies don't make you intelligent, it makes you pseudo intellectual like steve jobs.
If you want legitimacy you have to post sources.
Can you even read? You have no clue about economy at all. You say you havent got any arguments about why you are wrong. I suggest reading page 1 and 2 (there you go, source given, a person as "smart" as you should be able to find page 1 and 2 of this thread) of this thread again... Its explained so even a child can understand it 4-5 times.
While you are right that the universe is expanding faster than light, I dont see how this makes you right about anything game related? You derailed your own thread so bad, and you have yet to understand even basic mechanics of how the economy works... I strongly suggest you follow your own advice and read the thread. |
embrel
BamBam Inc.
124
|
Posted - 2014.02.20 16:39:00 -
[125] - Quote
Knights Armament wrote:None of you have anything to offer me intellectually it is like talking to children, I am growing tired of the lack of understanding of how economies and our universe works, it isn't even related to my original post in any manner. Every time someone attacks me they offer nothing substantial to back their claims, and most of you have a reading comprehension problem and mistake the meaning of my posts. I am done arguing with imbeciles.
hehe.
at least you're persistent.
A thousand people told me I'm wrong, but I did it anyway.
Guess what, on average, when there's no one agreeing with you, there might be a reason for that. |
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
16480
|
Posted - 2014.02.20 17:05:00 -
[126] - Quote
Ninteen Seventy-Nine wrote:It's about derailing any form of rational discussion in GD
You know, trolling. Like the OP you mean?
@ The OP, you're wrong about pretty much everything related to passive income. Your off topic ramblings however, are somewhat amusing, but pointless all the same. |
Silvetica Dian
Manson Family
Advent of Fate
739
|
Posted - 2014.02.20 17:23:00 -
[127] - Quote
Knights Armament wrote:, real value comes from power.
Real value comes from desiring the property or the labour of others.
A currency is very helpful as a medium for exchange as a scented candle maker may value the products of my labour but no amount of scented candles would be acceptable as payment.
Currency allows the exchange of goods and services efficiently.
Eve currency is achieved through time and how efficiently that time is utilised in generating that currency. This is a sensible way of creating currency. It is destroyed via various cracks in the exchange process as well as direct distruction in exchange for npc goods and services.
Real world currencies are created and destroyed in a totally different manner. A tiny amount is created by central banks in a process that has gradually been removed from the hands of politicians because they can't be trusted with such tools. However most money creation occurs through new debt and is destroyed through the payment or default of debt. This power lies with bankers who no one trusts with such power and yet no one takes it away from them. Booms happen when they create too much money and recessions happen when they stop creating money and the money supply shrinks. Inflation happens because the the supply of money keeps growing ever larger and thus the individual units diminish in value.
This real world version is clearly inferior to the EVE version for many reasons but that is no reason to talk about reverting to a gold standard that is loved only by people with lots of gold.
This is also ofc an oversimplification but i wanted to let Tippia know that not all anarchists are entirely clueless about how this all works or think that removing money is a good idea. Anarchism is about removing positions of power and diffusing power amongst the population. (An- without and archon- a greek ruler. leads to without rulers.) How to make this work is where we all disagree though .
As an aside most of us are opposed to capitalism but entirely in favour of free enterprise.
Money at its root is a form of rationing.
When the richest 85 people have as much wealth as the poorest 3.5 billion (50% of humanity) it is clear where the source of poverty is.
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jan/20/trickle-down-economics-broken-promise-richest-85 |
Carmen Electra
The Scope
Gallente Federation
298
|
Posted - 2014.02.20 17:27:00 -
[128] - Quote
You know what needs to be removed? General Discussion subforum. |
admiral root
Red Galaxy
Disband.
873
|
Posted - 2014.02.20 17:45:00 -
[129] - Quote
Knights Armament wrote:CCP had an opening for a lead game designer, I applied to the job, but apparently I don't have the qualifications required
Judging by your posts in this thread, this is something for which people should thank their preferred deity.
No, your rights end in optimal+2*falloff |
Pew Terror
Green Associates
81
|
Posted - 2014.02.20 17:46:00 -
[130] - Quote
GRRR MOONS!!! |
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
16496
|
Posted - 2014.02.20 17:59:00 -
[131] - Quote
admiral root wrote:Knights Armament wrote:CCP had an opening for a lead game designer, I applied to the job, but apparently I don't have the qualifications required Judging by all of your posts in this thread ever, this is something for which people should thank their preferred deity.
FTFY |
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
4205
|
Posted - 2014.02.20 18:00:00 -
[132] - Quote
Passive income is income for doing nothing active. I'm fine with it as it doesn't contribute to the massive currency devaluation that has happened since the introduction of the one thing that injects ISK directly into the system for real world money.
Way too much ISK is being generated from nothing with next to nothing removing it.
I remember when I made my first million how excited I was. Now a hundred billion is nothing for me. It's not because I'm doing anything different. It's because there is such an insane amount of ISK being generated from nothing that it is near worthless.
Mr Epeen 
There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass! |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
13922
|
Posted - 2014.02.20 18:16:00 -
[133] - Quote
Mr Epeen wrote:
Way too much ISK is being generated from nothing with next to nothing removing it.
Lots of people believe this but it turns out that nop, it aint true
1 Kings 12:11
|
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
4205
|
Posted - 2014.02.20 18:25:00 -
[134] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Mr Epeen wrote:
Way too much ISK is being generated from nothing with next to nothing removing it.
Lots of people believe this but it turns out that nop, it aint true
If this game were truly currency balanced there would be exactly 5000 isk times the number of new accts that that have been created.
Then for each ISK created there would be a matching sink.
Does anyone with half a brain really believe that it is in any way the case?
Mr Epeen
There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass! |
Stitcher
Alexylva Paradox
3168
|
Posted - 2014.02.20 18:35:00 -
[135] - Quote
Somehow, I don't think Mr. Epeen here is an economist.
An in-character blog and a video:
http://verinsjournal.blogspot.com
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tu1mbsgo738
|
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
19532
|
Posted - 2014.02.20 18:54:00 -
[136] - Quote
Mr Epeen wrote:If this game were truly currency balanced there would be exactly 5000 isk times the number of new accts that that have been created.
Then for each ISK created there would be a matching sink. That wouldn't be a balanced game. That would be a static and severely constricted closed-circuit game. That would be insanely restrictive and also ridiculously brittle design.
Quote:Does anyone with half a brain really believe that it is in any way the case? Does anyone think it would be an even remotely good idea?
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
La Nariz
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
1688
|
Posted - 2014.02.20 18:58:00 -
[137] - Quote
Carmen Electra wrote:You know what needs to be removed? General Discussion subforum. NPC alt posting abilities.
This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team.
Proof Highsec reward needs to be nerfed:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AqC-BTui2uSGdDlxa2dWOG5ieHB0QXBVWW82bGN5TFE&usp=sharing |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
13926
|
Posted - 2014.02.20 19:03:00 -
[138] - Quote
Mr Epeen wrote:Malcanis wrote:Mr Epeen wrote:
Way too much ISK is being generated from nothing with next to nothing removing it.
Lots of people believe this but it turns out that nop, it aint true If this game were truly currency balanced there would be exactly 5000 isk times the number of new accts that that have been created. Then for each ISK created there would be a matching sink. Does anyone with half a brain really believe that it is in any way the case? Mr Epeen
Who said anything about "perfect"?
In any case what you describe isn't "perfect balance" because ISK supply should increase to match the value of goods in game.
1 Kings 12:11
|
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
4205
|
Posted - 2014.02.20 19:12:00 -
[139] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Mr Epeen wrote:Malcanis wrote:Mr Epeen wrote:
Way too much ISK is being generated from nothing with next to nothing removing it.
Lots of people believe this but it turns out that nop, it aint true If this game were truly currency balanced there would be exactly 5000 isk times the number of new accts that that have been created. Then for each ISK created there would be a matching sink. Does anyone with half a brain really believe that it is in any way the case? Mr Epeen Who said anything about "perfect"? In any case what you describe isn't "perfect balance" because ISK supply should increase to match the value of goods in game.
Please show in the text you quoted where the word perfect was used. Or even implied?
Is it possible for you people to not start a straw man every time you can't come up with an answer for something?
Mr Epeen
There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass! |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
19532
|
Posted - 2014.02.20 19:20:00 -
[140] - Quote
Mr Epeen wrote:Please show in the text you quoted where the word perfect was used. Or even implied? GÇ£If this game were truly currency balanced there would be exactly 5000 isk times the number of new accts that that have been created.GÇ¥
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
13926
|
Posted - 2014.02.20 19:21:00 -
[141] - Quote
Oh come now
1 Kings 12:11
|
unidenify
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
51
|
Posted - 2014.02.20 19:25:00 -
[142] - Quote
Mr Epeen wrote:Passive income is income for doing nothing active. I'm fine with it as it doesn't contribute to the massive currency devaluation that has happened since the introduction of the one thing that injects ISK directly into the system for real world money.
are you suggesting that PLEX cause inflation? |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
19532
|
Posted - 2014.02.20 19:32:00 -
[143] - Quote
unidenify wrote:Mr Epeen wrote:Passive income is income for doing nothing active. I'm fine with it as it doesn't contribute to the massive currency devaluation that has happened since the introduction of the one thing that injects ISK directly into the system for real world money.
are you suggesting that PLEX cause inflation?
WaitGǪ I missed that one. Wth?!
Yeah, I would also like to know what this GÇ£one thing that injects ISK directly into the system for real world moneyGÇ¥ is.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
Carmen Electra
The Scope
Gallente Federation
299
|
Posted - 2014.02.20 19:41:00 -
[144] - Quote
La Nariz wrote:Carmen Electra wrote:You know what needs to be removed? General Discussion subforum. NPC alt posting abilities.
Carmen is my main. I made her in 2003. My null alliance dudes are my alts.
|
baltec1
Bat Country
Goonswarm Federation
10159
|
Posted - 2014.02.20 19:47:00 -
[145] - Quote
Tippia wrote:unidenify wrote:Mr Epeen wrote:Passive income is income for doing nothing active. I'm fine with it as it doesn't contribute to the massive currency devaluation that has happened since the introduction of the one thing that injects ISK directly into the system for real world money.
are you suggesting that PLEX cause inflation? WaitGǪ I missed that one. Wth?! Yeah, I would also like to know what this Gǣone thing that injects ISK directly into the system for real world moneyGǥ is.
Something, something, null RMT lords.
Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship |
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
2720
|
Posted - 2014.02.20 19:48:00 -
[146] - Quote
Tippia wrote:unidenify wrote:Mr Epeen wrote:Passive income is income for doing nothing active. I'm fine with it as it doesn't contribute to the massive currency devaluation that has happened since the introduction of the one thing that injects ISK directly into the system for real world money.
are you suggesting that PLEX cause inflation? WaitGǪ I missed that one. Wth?! Yeah, I would also like to know what this Gǣone thing that injects ISK directly into the system for real world moneyGǥ is.
It could be argued that PLEX leads to higher ISK velocity, rather than it building up in people's wallets, where it's not spent.
The argument is somewhat shaky
Steve Ronuken for CSM 9! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4236322
http://www.fuzzwork.co.uk/
Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter |
unidenify
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
51
|
Posted - 2014.02.20 19:48:00 -
[147] - Quote
Steve Ronuken wrote:Tippia wrote:unidenify wrote:Mr Epeen wrote:Passive income is income for doing nothing active. I'm fine with it as it doesn't contribute to the massive currency devaluation that has happened since the introduction of the one thing that injects ISK directly into the system for real world money.
are you suggesting that PLEX cause inflation? WaitGǪ I missed that one. Wth?! Yeah, I would also like to know what this Gǣone thing that injects ISK directly into the system for real world moneyGǥ is. It could be argued that PLEX leads to higher ISK velocity, rather than it building up in people's wallets, where it's not spent. The argument is somewhat shaky
PLEX is unique case that I love to see real life version
PLEX allow transfer of wealth from rich players to poor players for cost
so gap between bottom 25% and top 25% in theory would have small gap due to PLEX, so there would be more people able to afford products (modules, drone, ammo and ships)
So, it provide a lot of activity in market which no doubt grow as result.
PLEX don't directly cause inflation, but it is question if they do cause indirectly through market growth,
I can buy this argument myself |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
19532
|
Posted - 2014.02.20 19:54:00 -
[148] - Quote
Steve Ronuken wrote:It could be argued that PLEX leads to higher ISK velocity, rather than it building up in people's wallets, where it's not spent.
The argument is somewhat shaky
I could buy that, but that's also something very different from directly injecting ISK into the economy.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
Mario Putzo
Welping and Dunking.
315
|
Posted - 2014.02.20 20:40:00 -
[149] - Quote
Moon mining needs to be nerfed substantially. The fact you can generate what amounts to billions in income value without interacting is ridiculous. As someone who abuses the **** out of free income value in Moons I believe that it is an incredibly unbalanced mechanic.
Moon mining either needs to be eliminated completely with materials being relocated to another form of active PVE, or it needs to see a mechanic change that requires players to actually initiate active button pressing. The fact you can pull what amounts to billions in ISK a week from moons is poor for overall game play.
Due to this you see groups like CFC and N3 being capable of generating income levels that allow for entire ship replacement programs for tens of thousands of players, essentially eliminating the need for tens of thousands of people to actively engage in generating their own ISK. This is all passive income, either directly from the moons themselves or from the rental income generated by moons of renters. The fact 1 dude in a Jump Freighter is capable of generating 10's of Billions of ISK per region by simply clicking a button a couple times a week^number of moons is ridiculous.
Source: Me, 1 Single Dude with a Jump freighter who babysits 2 regions worth of moon income which requires about 5 hours of actual effort per week to generate about 15B ISK on average |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
19532
|
Posted - 2014.02.20 20:43:00 -
[150] - Quote
Mario Putzo wrote:Moon mining needs to be nerfed substantially. The fact you can generate what amounts to billions in income value without interacting is ridiculous. As someone who abuses the **** out of free income value in Moons I believe that it is an incredibly unbalanced mechanic. GǪexcept that it requires a fair amount of interaction and doesn't pay any better than highsec ice mining.
Quote:Source: Me, 1 Single Dude with a Jump freighter who babysits 2 regions worth of moon income which requires about 5 hours of actual effort per week to generate about 15B ISK on average And you've included the need to get and hold that space and actually put the goo to market into that effort?
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1. |
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