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Alexi Borizkova
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Posted - 2006.04.15 23:47:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Tasuric Orka You are the bpo hoarder!?
And thus it was that a simple miscommunication caused a coalition of alliances larger than the besieging force of ec-p8r to form, spelling the doom of both shikari, and firmus ixion. In latter years, it became a stigma to have a well known forums persona, pressaging a new era of alts. This time eventually came to be known as the "Alt wars".
In Corporate Caldari, taxes pay YOU. |
Dark Shikari
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Posted - 2006.04.15 23:48:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Alexi Borizkova
Originally by: Tasuric Orka You are the bpo hoarder!?
And thus it was that a simple miscommunication caused a coalition of alliances larger than the besieging force of ec-p8r to form, spelling the doom of both shikari, and firmus ixion. In latter years, it became a stigma to have a well known forums persona, pressaging a new era of alts. This time eventually came to be known as the "Alt wars".
/whispers "Band of Brothers are the BPO hoarders."
[23] Member: Official Forum Warrior
What's with the blue robots? Click my sig.
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The Enslaver
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Posted - 2006.04.16 00:02:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Nyphur
Originally by: Slaveabuser All t2 bpo owners should be listed then the community could kill them for the silly prices they charge.
Death to the aristocracy!
Purchase one and find out for yourself. Unless they sell with alts. Which I bet they do...
I don't? Well, my production alt sells it, but he is in the alliance along with my other chars. And its pretty much who's alt 'Enslaver's Economy' is.
Anyway - the issue with improved cloaks is that one person owns like 18 of the 20 BPO's. The issue with Covert Ops Cloaks, is that one person own like 18 of the improved cloak BPO's.
Now, if the amount of improved cloaks being produced wasn't being fixed, and the price wasn't being fixed on the improved cloak, there wouldn't be an issue with the covert cloak.
Simple as tbh... -------- Shinra Director
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Aversin
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Posted - 2006.04.16 00:10:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Lisento Slaven
Originally by: Ishen Villone
Originally by: Dark Shikari
Originally by: Tasuric Orka I see, well, if that's the case, ccp just needs to cut the amount of improved cloaks required, or just make em require none, and balance it out by increasing mineral requirements.
Better idea: Lower build time on all improved cloak II BPOs by 33%.
Since one person has pretty much all of the improved cloak BPOs, this would not help much.
True...as long as one person really does own all of the BPO's to the IC 2's. If multiple people own them then the supply will be increased and prices will drop a tad.
Best idea would be to introduce more BP's (BPC or BPO) to the market so that more people can compete in it.
I happen to know of 3 people who own improved cloak II bpo's, same with covert ops. (no none of those three people is me) so one person does not own all of them.
Originally by: Razner Cerizo They will never quit. The beatings will continue until morale improves.
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The Ratfink
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Posted - 2006.04.16 00:11:00 -
[35]
Edited by: The Ratfink on 16/04/2006 00:12:09 The Enslaver sells cloak II Bpc's
due to him being so busy he will only take orders in game
so if you want a cheap bpc for 10 mil
Convo or Eve-mail The Enslaver ingame
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Baldour Ngarr
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Posted - 2006.04.16 00:16:00 -
[36]
Originally by: The Enslaver Anyway - the issue with improved cloaks is that one person owns like 18 of the 20 BPO's. The issue with Covert Ops Cloaks, is that one person own like 18 of the improved cloak BPO's.
It doesn't make a blind bit of difference if one person owns them all, or not. He still can't sell them for more than people are prepared to pay.
The problem is that people are prepared to pay that much, so, the price is that much. ________________________________________________
"I tried strip mining, but I lost, and it's cold flying around in space naked." |
Sonos SAGD
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Posted - 2006.04.16 00:19:00 -
[37]
also even if they did release more bpo why would the new owners assuming that all of them are "new" owners(non alliance) why would they sell them for half of the current market price just because people are wanting that item -----------------------------------------------
I refuse to show you my real signature unless you give me isk |
Tasuric Orka
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Posted - 2006.04.16 00:29:00 -
[38]
Originally by: The Ratfink Edited by: The Ratfink on 16/04/2006 00:12:09 The Enslaver sells cloak II Bpc's
due to him being so busy he will only take orders in game
so if you want a cheap bpc for 10 mil
Convo or Eve-mail The Enslaver ingame
I'm so there, i'll pay 20 million upfront too. ________________________________________________ Hypocritical. |
ArcticFox
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Posted - 2006.04.16 00:30:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Baldour Ngarr It doesn't make a blind bit of difference if one person owns them all, or not. He still can't sell them for more than people are prepared to pay.
The problem is that people are prepared to pay that much, so, the price is that much.
Um, yes it does. Cov Ops are a vital enough part of fleet combat people will pay very highly for them, but this doesn't mean the price wouldn't be lower if the BPO ownership were more spread out. The price of an item isn't always the maximum anyone would ever be willing to pay.
To say one person owning so many of BPOs makes no difference is just ridiculous. The fact is cloaks would not be so expensive if the BPO ownership weren't so one-sided, because while some people will still pay it since it's unavoidable, in a market with multiple suppliers they would have just gone to someone else if the guy they were buying from before tried to jack the price up to 50.
In other words, the price hike isn't just fine and dandy just because people will pay it. The price hike could not have been pulled off if this guy didn't own so many of the BPOs (except by cartel, which is another thing alongside monopolies that real life governments outlaw, even though they're created by "natural market forces") ---------------------------------- "There's no +6 Sword of WTFPWN in Eve." - Er... Some person on the forum... |
The Enslaver
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Posted - 2006.04.16 01:04:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Baldour Ngarr
Originally by: The Enslaver Anyway - the issue with improved cloaks is that one person owns like 18 of the 20 BPO's. The issue with Covert Ops Cloaks, is that one person own like 18 of the improved cloak BPO's.
It doesn't make a blind bit of difference if one person owns them all, or not. He still can't sell them for more than people are prepared to pay.
The problem is that people are prepared to pay that much, so, the price is that much.
It does make a difference.
He doesn't have anyone to compete with and can limit the amount released onto the open markets. No, he can't make people pay more than they are willing to - however, he can push it to the edge, without having to compete at all. -------- Shinra Director
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Kylania
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Posted - 2006.04.16 01:12:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Tasuric Orka
Originally by: The Ratfink
so if you want a cheap bpc for 10 mil
I'm so there, i'll pay 20 million upfront too.
^^ There's your problem there, the seller was willing to accept 10m, someone with more ISK than god suddenly decides, hey, I'll double the price because I'm thinking of only myself, and suddenly.. the price becomes 20m.
If ridicliously rich people would stop paying stupid prices for things, prices would fall. But that'll never happen. -- Lil Miner |
Hakera
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Posted - 2006.04.16 01:15:00 -
[42]
covert ops cloaks are the only t2 item which require another t2 item to make where the bpo's for the t1 item which are required are also limited and not readily availible handed out at an event iirc.
Tbh having monopolies is all fine n dandy, they had the foresight to invest and corner a big market in eve, however the way cloaks are made make them too special, i think its only fair that proto cloak bpo's are made market availible. Though I would reocnsider the ingrediants for covert ops cloaks, a t2 items should not require another t2 item to make, both should require the proto cloak imo.
tis a pity such liquid isk items exist such as power diagnostic 2's, cpr II's and so on which have such a huge demand and such a limited supply that prices & profit are so much in excess of what other t2 bpo's earn largely.
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Dark Shikari
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Posted - 2006.04.16 01:18:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Hakera covert ops cloaks are the only t2 item which require another t2 item to make where the bpo's for the t1 item which are required are also limited and not readily availible handed out at an event iirc.
Don't Improved Cloak IIs also require Proto cloaks?
[23] Member: Official Forum Warrior
What's with the blue robots? Click my sig.
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Hakera
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Posted - 2006.04.16 01:23:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Dark Shikari
Originally by: Hakera covert ops cloaks are the only t2 item which require another t2 item to make where the bpo's for the t1 item which are required are also limited and not readily availible handed out at an event iirc.
Don't Improved Cloak IIs also require Proto cloaks?
yes, both do, but as i said uniquly, proto cloak bpos are as limited as t2 bpo's due to being an event reward.
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Tasuric Orka
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Posted - 2006.04.16 02:00:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Kylania
Originally by: Tasuric Orka
Originally by: The Ratfink
so if you want a cheap bpc for 10 mil
I'm so there, i'll pay 20 million upfront too.
^^ There's your problem there, the seller was willing to accept 10m, someone with more ISK than god suddenly decides, hey, I'll double the price because I'm thinking of only myself, and suddenly.. the price becomes 20m.
If ridicliously rich people would stop paying stupid prices for things, prices would fall. But that'll never happen.
I'm only worth about 30mil, i suppose noone got the "kidding" part. ________________________________________________ Hypocritical. |
Silver Dragoness
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Posted - 2006.04.16 05:39:00 -
[46]
Interesting without really doing that much work you can find that either one person doesn't own all the bpos... or he has alt accounts in different corps.
NAGA - sell all types, TRUST - sells all types Dr. Scope - sells all types
And I know of others that don't run storefronts or advertise.
Are the prices insanely high? Yes. Is that a problem... no these are P.v.P. mods and in the overall scope of the game being able to have the supply logistics to support your fleet is important. Making everything cheap and available makes combat pointless.
Any major alliance with any brains and isk would have bought the bpos back when proto cloaks where under 3 mil, improved 10, and covert 14-17. Or maybe they did........
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Ashvul
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Posted - 2006.04.16 07:33:00 -
[47]
Quote: Ask Naal Morno.
naal told me you guys look like dorks.
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Tuco Ramirez
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Posted - 2006.10.11 17:13:00 -
[48]
I understand what has been said in this matter. I do believe this constitutes a classic monopoly despite what has been described as a restrictive supply of the T1 "prototypes".
Not having seen the T1 BP, I cannot comment on how productive that BP might me. However, I have calculated that the *material* cost of manufacturing the T2 "improved" unit to be 500,000 ISK per unit (obviously not including the cost of the T1 prototype which exceeds the standard 10 million ISK in some systems).
Yet the T2 does not sell for 12 million. It does not sell for 15 million. It usually sells for 20 million. Even counting researching costs, thats approximately 900% profit. I would not be suprised to find that the same is true of the T1 "prototype" BP.
*THAT* is a monopoly.
(I admit, my reckoning may be off, but all the components are relatively cheap and available here in Domain)
What is worse is that those inflated prices simply add to the already insane T2 market in general, which in some cases, I will grant are caused by legitimate supply issues (Cap Recharger II was mentioned earlier).
These prices also affect the escrow "market" for named items. The other day I saw a named cloaking device on escrow for 495 million ISK. What was truly sad about that item was that it was an improvement on the Prototype cloaking unit. The T2 cloaking unit was superior to this named item!
I know, I know, this thread wasn't about the T2 market or escrow. The point of my tangent was unneccesarily inflated prices.
Uh... WTB BPCs of T1 "Prototype", and T2 "Improved" cloaking devices.
If you cant beat them, let me beat them!
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Hakera
Anari Higard
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Posted - 2006.10.11 17:15:00 -
[49]
Edited by: Hakera on 11/10/2006 17:15:39
necro :p
however it is a burning current issue I intend to ask Tuxford about at FF
my old thread on the issue can be found here
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MysticNZ
Solstice Systems Development Concourse
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Posted - 2006.10.11 17:46:00 -
[50]
They have been at 50m+ for a very long time. -=====- Xorus is teh nub :D I heard that *beats player with big stick* now be a good carebear and mine me some veldspar - Xorus |
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X ChaosX
Caldari Panzershrek
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Posted - 2006.10.11 21:10:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Kylania
Originally by: Tasuric Orka
Originally by: The Ratfink
so if you want a cheap bpc for 10 mil
I'm so there, i'll pay 20 million upfront too.
^^ There's your problem there, the seller was willing to accept 10m, someone with more ISK than god suddenly decides, hey, I'll double the price because I'm thinking of only myself, and suddenly.. the price becomes 20m.
If ridicliously rich people would stop paying stupid prices for things, prices would fall. But that'll never happen.
If the rich people need a cloak now and they can afford it, why should they wait months for the price to drop due to their 'boycott'. ______________________________________________
Originally by: Bill Shankly i see your another one of those lousy pirates that cant fight fair and call yourself apvper, what a joke u are.
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Karoth Tyu
FATAL REVELATIONS
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Posted - 2006.10.11 21:32:00 -
[52]
I hope the upcoming "invention" feature trashes the T2 market and causes all T2 BPO monopolies to break up and their holders to crap their pants and boohoo into their pillows at night for months about how many billions of isk they will no longer receive a week, causing them to eventually liquidate all of their in-game assets, sell their characters on Ebay, rent an expensive red convertible, and inevitably drive it off a bridge into a deep canyon in a bout of terrible depression.
But that's just me
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Nanobotter Mk2
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Posted - 2006.10.11 21:45:00 -
[53]
Same old nonesense for everything t2. Flawed implementation has allowed for easily monopolized markets because of the poor choice ot implement a fixed number of bpo's for tech2. Instead of have limited run t2 bpos that are constantly being introduced to move around the suppliers.
I don;t blame the player charging, I blame CCP for creating such a easily monopolized system, that totaly destroy's any risk reward concept supposedly ingrained in this game.
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Khatred
OMG I can post in the CAOD section now
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Posted - 2006.10.11 21:49:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Karoth Tyu I hope the upcoming "invention" feature trashes the T2 market and causes all T2 BPO monopolies to break up and their holders to crap their pants and boohoo into their pillows at night for months about how many billions of isk they will no longer receive a week, causing them to eventually liquidate all of their in-game assets, sell their characters on Ebay, rent an expensive red convertible, and inevitably drive it off a bridge into a deep canyon in a bout of terrible depression.
But that's just me
The difference is that you wish that while I know that you will inevitably drive a car off a bridge into a deep canyon because that's what helpless people like you do.
But that's just a rumour _______________________________________________
CondorKestrelMerlinGriffinHeronBantamAtronImicusIncursusMaulusNavitasTristanBreacherBurstProbe
\o/ I got Eve content in my sig. |
Jenny Spitfire
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.10.11 21:50:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Nanobotter Mk2 Same old nonesense for everything t2. Flawed implementation has allowed for easily monopolized markets because of the poor choice ot implement a fixed number of bpo's for tech2. Instead of have limited run t2 bpos that are constantly being introduced to move around the suppliers.
I don;t blame the player charging, I blame CCP for creating such a easily monopolized system, that totaly destroy's any risk reward concept supposedly ingrained in this game.
If you don't like it, don't buy it. Every time you complain about T2, Vagabond prices go up by 1M.
--------- Cruelty is God's way of showing kindness and God is kind. Vagabond pilots want http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=405915 |
Karoth Tyu
FATAL REVELATIONS
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Posted - 2006.10.11 21:52:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Khatred The difference is that you wish that while I know that you will inevitably drive a car off a bridge into a deep canyon because that's what helpless people like you do.
But that's just a rumour
Gee whiz, a single tear is rolling down my fricken cheek while I type this
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Father Weebles
Panzershrek
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Posted - 2006.10.11 22:03:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Jenny Spitfire
Originally by: Nanobotter Mk2 Same old nonesense for everything t2. Flawed implementation has allowed for easily monopolized markets because of the poor choice ot implement a fixed number of bpo's for tech2. Instead of have limited run t2 bpos that are constantly being introduced to move around the suppliers.
I don;t blame the player charging, I blame CCP for creating such a easily monopolized system, that totaly destroy's any risk reward concept supposedly ingrained in this game.
If you don't like it, don't buy it. Every time you complain about T2, Vagabond prices go up by 1M.
says 1 of the 8 vagabond bpo owners...
"Welcome to EVE, where inflation is out of control." |
Miss Overlord
Gallente Garoun Investment Bank
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Posted - 2006.10.11 22:04:00 -
[58]
1 of 8 vagabond owners hey - mmm lucky fella
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dailyhazard
Caldari Cosmic Fusion
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Posted - 2006.10.11 22:50:00 -
[59]
People pay 40-50m for them dont they if your the bpo owner i dont think your going to sit there "you know what im gonna cut my profits by half"
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Dred'Pirate Jesus
Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2006.10.11 22:55:00 -
[60]
Considering you get almost total immunity to all forms of eve grief with a COCD II I'd say 40-50 mil is a cheap price to pay.. ( Granted you actually know how to fly a cov ops that is.. )
___________________________________________________________________________________________________ [2:02:08] Dred'Pirate Jesus > I'm Mexican you dolt.. It's pronouced "hey zeus" not "gee zus" : |
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