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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 5 post(s)
Shiipo	Posted - 2006.05.05 08:27:00 - [181] Edited by: Shiipo on 05/05/2006 08:29:08 I noticed something interesting... If you have an auction startin at 100k, you have a minimum increase of 100k and someone places a maximum bet (proxy bid) that ends with 50k, and then someone else places a new proxy bid that's more than 100k higher than the first proxy bid, it seems like the system doesn't care about the 100k minimum increase but rather just goes with the last maximum + 100k, even though technically it'd have been enough to outbid him/her by 50k.
Sorai	Posted - 2006.05.05 15:49:00 - [182] Originally by: Shiipo Edited by: Shiipo on 05/05/2006 12:49:36 I noticed something interesting... If you have an auction startin at 100k, you have a minimum increase of 100k and someone places a maximum bet (proxy bid) that ends with 50k, and then someone else places a new proxy bid that's more than 100k higher than the first proxy bid, it seems like the system doesn't care about the 100k minimum increase but rather just goes with the last maximum + 100k, even though technically it'd have been enough to outbid him/her by 50k (or even bid less than the previous bidder actually, since he/she won't be able to increase by the minimum increase). Another question : If 2 ppl enter the same proxy bid, who wins? If two people enter the same proxy bid; then the one who entered it first wins (i.e. the "oldest" bid). Hmmm I am having difficulty envisioning your described issue; Shiipo. Could you lay it out in more detail? Thanks. -- Sorai Carbide Industries Proprietor of EVEbay, EVE's free auction house. --
Shar Tegral	Posted - 2006.05.06 15:38:00 - [183] I've noticed one interesting thing myself. It's in relation to hidden reserves (which is a silly thing imho - You want a minimum, Start the bid there) and with bidding. I entered in my maximum bid on something, and so far I'm the only who has bid on the item, and my prxy bid was at the minimum. However that doesn't meet the hidden reserve. My Max is almost double the starting bid price so.... I figure it should go something like this: If my maximum exceeds hidden reserve then my proxy bid should be placed at that point. If my maximum does not meet the hidden reserve then my proxy bid should shoot immediately to my maximum bid. Thereby informing me that I need to bid higher. In the end, it is possible for someone to keep creeping up to find the reserve. But that's not an exploit in or of itself. Both parties want to reach the hidden reserve... presumably. However since the proxy bidding is automated, and I am not inclined to keep outbidding myself manually, my bid is currently the only one active... and the bidding has thus not gone upwards at all... Even towards the hidden reserve. Just a tidbit for brain munching.
Sorai	Posted - 2006.05.06 19:54:00 - [184] Originally by: Shar Tegral I've noticed one interesting thing myself. It's in relation to hidden reserves (which is a silly thing imho - You want a minimum, Start the bid there) and with bidding. I entered in my maximum bid on something, and so far I'm the only who has bid on the item, and my prxy bid was at the minimum. However that doesn't meet the hidden reserve. My Max is almost double the starting bid price so.... I figure it should go something like this: If my maximum exceeds hidden reserve then my proxy bid should be placed at that point. If my maximum does not meet the hidden reserve then my proxy bid should shoot immediately to my maximum bid. Thereby informing me that I need to bid higher. In the end, it is possible for someone to keep creeping up to find the reserve. But that's not an exploit in or of itself. Both parties want to reach the hidden reserve... presumably. However since the proxy bidding is automated, and I am not inclined to keep outbidding myself manually, my bid is currently the only one active... and the bidding has thus not gone upwards at all... Even towards the hidden reserve. Just a tidbit for brain munching. I spent a while thinking about how to make reserves work; and in the end I did it the eBay way -- which is as you've stated. If your maximum bid is over the reserve, it will shoot up to meet the reserve (that it hasn't yet is a hint letting you know that the reserve hasn't been met yet)... that is the eBay way. I believe that the "current bid" of the auction stays low until the reserve is met with a maximum bid is something that is oriented at keeping the current bid lower and thus encouraging bidding. -- Sorai Carbide Industries Proprietor of EVEbay, EVE's free auction house. --
Shar Tegral	Posted - 2006.05.06 20:01:00 - [185] Originally by: Sorai I believe that the "current bid" of the auction stays low until the reserve is met with a maximum bid is something that is oriented at keeping the current bid lower and thus encouraging bidding. It becomes something of a trap though. I tried to rebid on that item, since no one else is, and I was unable to unless I increased my maximum. Granted, that's one way to uncover the reserve but what if I don't want to exceed a certain point entirely. Then the actual auction looks dead... one bidder at minimum/hidden reserve not met. The flipside of the process is: Without you telling me that it is supposed to work this way... it looks like a bug. And, well, people tend to see what appears to be a bug and think badly instead of asking if it is bug at all. /me shrugs
Ching Mei	Posted - 2006.05.07 02:10:00 - [186] Hidden reserves are fine. Low starting bids encourage bidding, thus getting people interested in the item. Maybe bringing more eyes onto the product and getting people to possibly stretch their finances to get something they might not try for if the starting bid were too high. Personally, I trust EBay to have gotten this right with something not far from 1 Billion auctions to date. I'd copy them too if I were making something like this. Great site!
Sorai	Posted - 2006.05.07 02:37:00 - [187] Thanks, Ching Mei. Originally by: Shar Tegral Originally by: Sorai I believe that the "current bid" of the auction stays low until the reserve is met with a maximum bid is something that is oriented at keeping the current bid lower and thus encouraging bidding. It becomes something of a trap though. I tried to rebid on that item, since no one else is, and I was unable to unless I increased my maximum. Granted, that's one way to uncover the reserve but what if I don't want to exceed a certain point entirely. Then the actual auction looks dead... one bidder at minimum/hidden reserve not met. The flipside of the process is: Without you telling me that it is supposed to work this way... it looks like a bug. And, well, people tend to see what appears to be a bug and think badly instead of asking if it is bug at all. /me shrugs I agree that I need better documentation; I just have to find the time to write it! Have been managing to make slow 'n steady progress on EVEbay the past few days though; so as long as I can maintain that I'll be happy. -- Sorai Carbide Industries Proprietor of EVEbay, EVE's free auction house. --
Shiipo	Posted - 2006.05.07 14:04:00 - [188] Edited by: Shiipo on 07/05/2006 14:04:13 Originally by: Sorai Originally by: Shiipo Edited by: Shiipo on 05/05/2006 12:49:36 I noticed something interesting... If you have an auction startin at 100k, you have a minimum increase of 100k and someone places a maximum bet (proxy bid) that ends with 50k, and then someone else places a new proxy bid that's more than 100k higher than the first proxy bid, it seems like the system doesn't care about the 100k minimum increase but rather just goes with the last maximum + 100k, even though technically it'd have been enough to outbid him/her by 50k (or even bid less than the previous bidder actually, since he/she won't be able to increase by the minimum increase). Another question : If 2 ppl enter the same proxy bid, who wins? If two people enter the same proxy bid; then the one who entered it first wins (i.e. the "oldest" bid). Hmmm I am having difficulty envisioning your described issue; Shiipo. Could you lay it out in more detail? Thanks. Not an issue really, mainly just wondering how it works 1. Someone sets up an auction with a 100k minimum increase, starting at 500k 2. Someone sets up a proxy bid of 750k 3. Someone else sets up a proxy bid of 900k 4. Current high bid is 850k Now, if the 2nd person to bid would have entered a bid of 700k - would that bid have been the current high bid (since the first person didn't meet the requirement of a 100k increase) or would the current high bid be 750k since the mimimum increase was met an the time when the 1st person entered his bid?
Vaugue	Posted - 2006.05.09 01:16:00 - [189] hope i'm not interupting.. but i must say I LOVE THIS SITE ! I tell everyone i know about it and also throw a few lines of my stuff for sale once in awhile in the sales channel advertising that they are for sale there. I hope it catches on and lots of people use it ! A+ ========================= My Space Eve-Bay
Sorai	Posted - 2006.05.09 03:08:00 - [190] Thanks Vaugue. :) Originally by: Shiipo Edited by: Shiipo on 07/05/2006 14:04:13 Originally by: Sorai Originally by: Shiipo Edited by: Shiipo on 05/05/2006 12:49:36 I noticed something interesting... If you have an auction startin at 100k, you have a minimum increase of 100k and someone places a maximum bet (proxy bid) that ends with 50k, and then someone else places a new proxy bid that's more than 100k higher than the first proxy bid, it seems like the system doesn't care about the 100k minimum increase but rather just goes with the last maximum + 100k, even though technically it'd have been enough to outbid him/her by 50k (or even bid less than the previous bidder actually, since he/she won't be able to increase by the minimum increase). Another question : If 2 ppl enter the same proxy bid, who wins? If two people enter the same proxy bid; then the one who entered it first wins (i.e. the "oldest" bid). Hmmm I am having difficulty envisioning your described issue; Shiipo. Could you lay it out in more detail? Thanks. Not an issue really, mainly just wondering how it works 1. Someone sets up an auction with a 100k minimum increase, starting at 500k 2. Someone sets up a proxy bid of 750k 3. Someone else sets up a proxy bid of 900k 4. Current high bid is 850k Now, if the 2nd person to bid would have entered a bid of 700k - would that bid have been the current high bid (since the first person didn't meet the requirement of a 100k increase) or would the current high bid be 750k since the mimimum increase was met an the time when the 1st person entered his bid? Good question, Shiipo I actually had to check the codebase to be sure I answered it correctly; which is why the response took so long. If the 2nd person to bid would have entered a bid of 700k, then the 750k bidder would be winning, with a maximum bid of 750k. If the 2nd person was very sharp-eyed they might notice the partial bid increment and know that the first bidder was at the maximum. -- Sorai Carbide Industries Proprietor of EVEbay, EVE's free auction house. --
Shar Tegral	Posted - 2006.05.09 05:34:00 - [191] /me shrugs. I advertise stuff here. Offer 10% discount if purchased through Eve Bay. People go where the money is. /me shrugs again Submit News
Sorai	Posted - 2006.05.10 04:17:00 - [192] Originally by: Shar Tegral /me shrugs. I advertise stuff here. Offer 10% discount if purchased through Eve Bay. People go where the money is. /me shrugs again I honestly don't know how I would give people ISKies for using the site; it doesn't make any. Although perhaps it is true that there are deals to be found on it... Happy to report that I had a fruitful night tonight; got lots done... say the next version of EVEbay is about 60-70% there, now. -- Sorai Carbide Industries Proprietor of EVEbay, EVE's free auction house. --
Gladi	Posted - 2006.05.10 11:14:00 - [193] hm editing your auctions would be a nice feature.... is it comeing? - sig to large? oops sorry
Brother Benthor	Posted - 2006.05.10 11:28:00 - [194] Originally by: Gladi hm editing your auctions would be a nice feature.... is it comeing? disagree.. that will make ppl dislike auctions for ppl changing dates and prices... Designer Services click me!
Shar Tegral	Posted - 2006.05.10 11:49:00 - [195] Originally by: Gladi hm editing your auctions would be a nice feature.... is it comeing? An editable comment block... or even a message history that the seller can display over time. Make it something that can only be appended ever 12 - 24 hours. As an extension of this idea. However I do agree... changes to the meat of the auction would violate, far too much, the integrity of the process. BTW: As an added detail... maybe an "url" field to an auction? This way people can link it back to these forums or to their own webpage with further details or backgrounds. Submit News
Sorai	Posted - 2006.05.10 13:59:00 - [196] Originally by: Shar Tegral Originally by: Gladi hm editing your auctions would be a nice feature.... is it comeing? An editable comment block... or even a message history that the seller can display over time. Make it something that can only be appended ever 12 - 24 hours. As an extension of this idea. However I do agree... changes to the meat of the auction would violate, far too much, the integrity of the process. BTW: As an added detail... maybe an "url" field to an auction? This way people can link it back to these forums or to their own webpage with further details or backgrounds. nods Appending comments (not re-writing them, even, or the possibility to edit them, but rather the possibility to add new comments as time goes on) is on the list and will be implemented. Actual editing of an auction will not be implemented; for the reasons covered above. If the auction has not yet received any bids; a seller may cancel the auction and re-create it with whatever 'edits' they would like to do. If the auction has received bids; then there is no way to allow editing without alienating the buyer. The URL field being added to the auction isn't a bad idea; but I'm concerned about it violating the IGB-and-OOGB friendliness of the site. Right now, anything on EVEbay can be done through any IGB or OOGB browser (with the sole exception of registration) -- I won't be able to guarantee that auction links would work, however. -- Sorai Carbide Industries Proprietor of EVEbay, EVE's free auction house. --
Malachi Nefzen	Posted - 2006.05.10 14:43:00 - [197] quick and easy
Shar Tegral	Posted - 2006.05.10 17:54:00 - [198] Originally by: Sorai The URL field being added to the auction isn't a bad idea; but I'm concerned about it violating the IGB-and-OOGB friendliness of the site. Not wanting to suggest overengineering but have a toggle field to go with the url. IGB/OOG with OOG being default. On Eve browser detection: only show IGB "selected" urls. But you currently have enough on your plate.... good luck. Submit News
Sorai	Posted - 2006.05.11 06:02:00 - [199] Thanks Malachi. Originally by: Shar Tegral Originally by: Sorai The URL field being added to the auction isn't a bad idea; but I'm concerned about it violating the IGB-and-OOGB friendliness of the site. Not wanting to suggest overengineering but have a toggle field to go with the url. IGB/OOG with OOG being default. On Eve browser detection: only show IGB "selected" urls. But you currently have enough on your plate.... good luck. I'm not sure I can expect a user to know that, Shar? Many people don't know what IGB/OOGB stand for (I still get asked "What is IGB?" when I tell someone that the site is IGB-friendly, not to mention OOGB), much less whether a page that they have created in dreamweaver, or a blog, or any of a hundred other ways that people have to post things online can be rendered in an IGB or an OOGB. Perhaps if I defaulted it to OOGB only; and left strict instructions to not change it unless one knew what one is doing? ... unfortunately, that makes the links less useful as likely virtually every one would be OOGB-only. I think that rather than doing this I would like to improve EVEbay to the point where people do not need to refer to outside sources to give auction data. That's the overall goal, anyway. -- Sorai Carbide Industries Proprietor of EVEbay, EVE's free auction house. --
Girdan Keirge	Posted - 2006.05.14 06:53:00 - [200] Seems like a good idea, and looks like you've got a few auctions running now, but I really dislike the '5 items per page' setup. Is there some issue with showing more? Take to many resources or something? I'd rather see 20 or 25 per page, or at least 10.
Mortania	Posted - 2006.05.15 00:12:00 - [201] Originally by: Girdan Keirge Seems like a good idea, and looks like you've got a few auctions running now, but I really dislike the '5 items per page' setup. Is there some issue with showing more? Take to many resources or something? I'd rather see 20 or 25 per page, or at least 10. Once you've registered, you can go to MyEveBay > MyPreferences and then set how many per page for both in game browser and out of game browser seperately. Be warned that more than 5-10 really slows down the IGB, however.
Sorai	Posted - 2006.05.15 22:44:00 - [202] Thanks for your question Girdan; and your reply, Mortania -- you beat me to it. Girdan, it isn't that it uses too many resources on the server to show more than that; it is that the IGB rendering speed is very slow (very, very slow) for tables and I keep the table size to an absolute minimum in order to allow it to render at a decent speed for anyone that goes just to check something quick (for example, using the search to find what they are looking for more quickly). If you would like you can configure the number of rows per page to be whatever you want (just follow Mortania's instructions). Status on the next version of EVEbay: RL and family, combined with EVE happenings kept me hopping a lot on the weekend. I snatched time for a little bit of work on it on Saturday; but other than that was unable to find the time. RL happens though, right? Still picking away at it. Thanks everyone. :) -- Sorai Carbide Industries Proprietor of EVEbay, EVE's free auction house. --
Mik Nostrebor	Posted - 2006.05.16 01:49:00 - [203] I would like to say thanks for all the work Sorai. Much appreciated. Mik ..... Where's the kaboom? There was supposed to be an earth-shattering kaboom!
Sorai	Posted - 2006.05.17 03:51:00 - [204] Thanks Mik! I'll get it there. -- Sorai Carbide Industries Proprietor of EVEbay, EVE's free auction house. --
White Towel	Posted - 2006.05.17 07:20:00 - [205] Nice work
4SG GillHead	Posted - 2006.05.17 07:21:00 - [206] Yes it is a nice work
Vaugue	Posted - 2006.05.17 11:49:00 - [207] Edited by: Vaugue on 17/05/2006 11:51:58 Once again i must say kudo's to Sorai for his excellent and volunteer effort on this Eve-Bay project. I surf it daily and it seems more and more people are using it everyday. I have one concern though as it is becoming very apparent that i have a case of this myself. I had an auction ( Linkage ) for a Daredevil as you see that was bidded on and won for 40,100,000 isk. What you may also notice (at the time of the auctions completion) the age of this character was less than a day It has been almost 6 days now and he still has not claimed . My general rule of thumb for this is when the auction item is up and won, i imediatly put the said item up on escrow for 7 days at the listed station. If you claim within 3 days you will recieve positive feedback from me. Claim in 4 to 7 days (before it expires) you will recieve neutral ratings from me, and obviously should the escrow expire (7+) i will give you the red mark. Now I know not all auctions will ever be smooth, and things "happen", and this non claimer isn't what my concern is (it will happen wether we like it or not.) My concern (and suggestion) is that i have no other bids to fall back on. Generaly on EBay in a case like this. You will give the original winner a negative, go back and view the next highest bidders and contact them if they would still like to claim this auction (at thier bid price of course). Should one say yes you would create a buy it now auction at his price (for rating purposes) he would bid and claim the escrow and postive feedback given and everyone is happy. Alas though i cannot do this. The only bids i can view is the winning bid. We (the seller at the very least) should be able to view the bid history if it is possible is what my suggestion is. Another suggestion is limit registration to characters older than 30 day only. If this is possible. We all know people got alts and price gougin happens (even on EBay though if caught it can mean lawsuits as it's considered fraud which is a felony) there is no way around it but at least eliminating the convience of a brand new character bidding i think would help somewhat .. or even 15+ days at least (to elimnate free trial's). I know i Eve-Mailed you personal Sorai but i thought i would post here as well so maybe some other people would share thier views on this topic or suggestion for your viewing pleasure. Again though hats off to you as i think you have done a marvelous job thus far. ========================= My Space Eve-Bay
Nama Saya	Posted - 2006.05.17 13:35:00 - [208] YES YES YES!!! I love this ID! Thanks CCP
Bentus Kushani	Posted - 2006.05.18 22:31:00 - [209] This is kind of a rant, but what the hell is up with people overestimating the value of their items? Someone just put a raven up for 95m, which is stock value on the market. I realize that they can do whatever they want (so can buyers!). But that wouldn't fly at all on the forums, so why do people think it'll fly on EVEBay? That's the main reason I haven't got involved. Min bids are just too high to be interested. If I put a $100 bill (totally normal) on Ebay, min bid $99, do you think anyone would bid on it (especially with a reserve of $101!)? Auctions work best when people have a little room to run the price of the item up, because it raises interest in the item (people think they're getting a deal). What EVEBay needs right now is some decent bargains. Not free items, but enough to make it worth checking every now and again.
Sorai	Posted - 2006.05.19 01:22:00 - [210] Originally by: Bentus Kushani Edited by: Bentus Kushani on 19/05/2006 00:23:14 Edited by: Bentus Kushani on 18/05/2006 23:17:30 This is kind of a rant, but what is up with people overestimating the value of their items? Someone just put a raven up for 95m, which is stock value on the market. I realize that they can do whatever they want (so can buyers!). But that wouldn't fly at all on the forums, so why do people think it'll fly on EVEBay? That's the main reason I haven't got involved. Min bids are just too high to be interested. If I put a $100 bill (totally normal) on Ebay, min bid $99, do you think anyone would bid on it (especially with a reserve of $101!)? Auctions work best when people have a little room to run the price of the item up, because it raises interest in the item (people think they're getting a deal). What EVEBay needs right now is some decent bargains. Not free items, but enough to make it worth checking every now and again. PS: Not a rant at you, Sorai. Evebay rocks. Just it's kinda expensiev. Hopefully this will grow with time, Bentus. :) -- Sorai Carbide Industries Proprietor of EVEbay, EVE's free auction house. --

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