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Why dont we use the cloud?

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Aih-Li Tahn Ministry of War Amarr Empire 14	Posted - 2014.03.05 16:22:00 - [1] - Quote Its what the cloud is for extendible and lots of computing power to adapt to both low and high load and THWART DDOSers! as much as we joke about 'the hamsters' its wrong to not use 21st centry tech to solve problems for thousand of players? just look at the forums and u can see theres a problem. things like Jita might be solve by getting bigger computers but what of multiple fleet battles and MORE SYSTEMS? cloud is the future but it seems the ignored by ccp. why?
Pix Severus School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State 400	Posted - 2014.03.05 16:25:00 - [2] - Quote Aih-Li Tahn wrote: cloud is the future but it seems the ignored by ccp. why? Because it isn't the future, or at least not any future I want to be a part of.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 19823	Posted - 2014.03.05 16:28:00 - [3] - Quote GÇªand what is it you think that GÇ£the cloudGÇ¥ will be able to do? If you think it'll help against DDoSes, maybe you should look up the successful attacks made against high-profile cloud services. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1.
Aih-Li Tahn Ministry of War Amarr Empire 14	Posted - 2014.03.05 16:32:00 - [4] - Quote Tippia wrote: GÇªand what is it you think that GÇ£the cloudGÇ¥ will be able to do? If you think it'll help against DDoSes, maybe you should look up the successful attacks made against high-profile cloud services. ofc DDOS will always be possible but amazon was dealed how many DDOSs that actually had an affect, compared to CCP? amazon is drawing much much more attention and id expect it to be bigger "target" than CCP, yet it has less problems.
Commissar Kate Team Evil 51376	Posted - 2014.03.05 16:33:00 - [5] - Quote Sigh, that would cause even more lag. There is this thing called latency you know? Not to mention all the extra security concerns. People, who talk, don't know. People, who know, don't talk. Unlocking all racial clothing
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 19823	Posted - 2014.03.05 16:36:00 - [6] - Quote Aih-Li Tahn wrote: ofc DDOS will always be possible but amazon was dealed how many DDOSs that actually had an affect, compared to CCP? Amazon is also not a real-time service. So again, what is it you think that GÇ£the cloudGÇ¥ will be able to do? GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1.
Pok Nibin Filial Pariahs 244	Posted - 2014.03.05 16:42:00 - [7] - Quote "We" don't use Cloud because we understand how the internet functions. Conversely, you think Cloud is a good idea because you don't know how the internet functions. Let me guess....you have a Facebook page and you Twitter as well. Dont fight it; Rejoin your Amarrian patriarchs; You know you want to.
Aih-Li Tahn Ministry of War Amarr Empire 14	Posted - 2014.03.05 16:43:00 - [8] - Quote Tippia wrote: Aih-Li Tahn wrote: ofc DDOS will always be possible but amazon was dealed how many DDOSs that actually had an affect, compared to CCP? Amazon is also not a real-time service. So again, what is it you think that GÇ£the cloudGÇ¥ will be able to do? amazon doesnt run at a 1 hz rate either
Lucas Kell JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance 2596	Posted - 2014.03.05 16:44:00 - [9] - Quote Aih-Li Tahn wrote: Tippia wrote: GÇªand what is it you think that GÇ£the cloudGÇ¥ will be able to do? If you think it'll help against DDoSes, maybe you should look up the successful attacks made against high-profile cloud services. ofc DDOS will always be possible but amazon was dealed how many DDOSs that actually had an affect, compared to CCP? amazon is drawing much much more attention and id expect it to be bigger "target" than CCP, yet it has less problems. edit: you edited ur post, very consructive Amazon don;t actually run a game. When you browse their site you are downloading considerably less data. With CDNs load is further distributed out to other providers making a DDOS attempt considerably harder. Distributing any MMO over a network structure like that would take considerably more power, and in the case of EVE (being single threaded) would be near impossible. Also, since generally there are separate authentication nodes to server nodes, a DDOS to those would prevent you being able to auth and so stop you connecting to the game anyway. MMOs are reliant on constant network infrastructure, so intermittent outages caused by DDOS attacks stop the game. Intermittent outages on amazon however are just a minor inconvenience. The long and short of it is that no amount of "use the cloud" is going to make a game server immune to a DDOS. If the attackers are determined, they will kill it. CCP should (and afaik do) respond by bringing the server offline, working with their network providers to track the attack and block it off before restoring the server. But even then, if the attackers are determined, they will hit again. The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff.
Aih-Li Tahn Ministry of War Amarr Empire 14	Posted - 2014.03.05 16:44:00 - [10] - Quote Pok Nibin wrote: Let me guess....you have a Facebook page and you Twitter as well. what do those have anything to do with it? and what if i do? its not like im trying to get u to read them
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 19823	Posted - 2014.03.05 16:46:00 - [11] - Quote Aih-Li Tahn wrote: amazon doesnt run at a 1 hz rate either GÇªbecause it's not a real-time service, so it can survive running at .01 Hz. You're still avoiding the question, by the way. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1.
Real Serious PVPer Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 0	Posted - 2014.03.05 16:46:00 - [12] - Quote In space, there are no clouds, just pvp
Pok Nibin Filial Pariahs 254	Posted - 2014.03.05 16:47:00 - [13] - Quote Aih-Li Tahn wrote: Pok Nibin wrote: Let me guess....you have a Facebook page and you Twitter as well. what do those have anything to do with it? and what if i do? its not like im trying to get u to read them Google the word "dense", then have a quiet moment of thought with yourself. Dont fight it; Rejoin your Amarrian patriarchs; You know you want to.
DaReaper Net 7 The Last Brigade 208	Posted - 2014.03.05 16:50:00 - [14] - Quote You do realize that all the cloud is the internet right? When they say 'store data on the cloud' all it means is data stored remotely, there is still a server holding all your data that can still be DDoS'd. EvE is already on the cloud. You don;t install it and play it just on your pc, all your data and game data is stored on a remote server you reach via the internet... so.. you want to make it so to play you have to connect tot he client on a remote server? Because that is ALL that the cloud is. What you are basically saying is 'lets play eve as it is..' because eve is on the cloud already.
Aih-Li Tahn Ministry of War Amarr Empire 14	Posted - 2014.03.05 16:55:00 - [15] - Quote Tippia wrote: Aih-Li Tahn wrote: amazon doesnt run at a 1 hz rate either GÇªbecause it's not a real-time service, so it can survive running at .01 Hz. You're still avoiding the question, by the way. your saying Amazon takes 100 seconds to make a webpage? wtf? i dont even get what ur trying to say anymore
Vyl Vit Cambio Enterprises 609	Posted - 2014.03.05 16:56:00 - [16] - Quote DaReaper wrote: You do realize that all the cloud is the internet right? When they say 'store data on the cloud' all it means is data stored remotely, there is still a server holding all your data that can still be DDoS'd. EvE is already on the cloud. You don;t install it and play it just on your pc, all your data and game data is stored on a remote server you reach via the internet... so.. you want to make it so to play you have to connect tot he client on a remote server? Because that is ALL that the cloud is. What you are basically saying is 'lets play eve as it is..' because eve is on the cloud already. Um...I appreciate the thought here, but I'm afraid this may be beyond the OP's ability to comprehend. Anyone with any sense has already left town.
Batelle HOMELE55 2088	Posted - 2014.03.05 16:57:00 - [17] - Quote the cloud is not filled with magic fairy dust that will solve all the worlds problems. "CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!" Never forget.
Cannibal Kane My Little Ponies of the Apocalypse 3315	Posted - 2014.03.05 16:59:00 - [18] - Quote Aih-Li Tahn wrote: Tippia wrote: Aih-Li Tahn wrote: amazon doesnt run at a 1 hz rate either GÇªbecause it's not a real-time service, so it can survive running at .01 Hz. You're still avoiding the question, by the way. your saying Amazon takes 100 seconds to make a webpage? wtf? i dont even get what ur trying to say anymore That right there tells me you know nothing about what a cloud service actually is. "I saw him fight by the monument in Jita. He flowed in his Machariel like a Shinto spirit, 800MM shells sprouting in his passing. His hair flowed in the corona of his target's warp core breach. It was truly majestic. And while everyone stared in awe I stole the loot and ran off. Because I am like that." - NEONOVUS
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 19823	Posted - 2014.03.05 17:01:00 - [19] - Quote Aih-Li Tahn wrote: your saying Amazon takes 100 seconds to make a webpage? wtf? i dont even get what ur trying to say anymore Try reading, preferably without skipping words. Or entire questions. Yes, between waiting for the page to load, the user looking through the page and finding the information they need, and general net congestion, Amazon can survive while delivering pages at .01 Hz. What is it you think that GÇ£the cloudGÇ¥ will be able to do for us? GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1.
Aih-Li Tahn Ministry of War Amarr Empire 14	Posted - 2014.03.05 17:02:00 - [20] - Quote Tippia wrote: Aih-Li Tahn wrote: your saying Amazon takes 100 seconds to make a webpage? wtf? i dont even get what ur trying to say anymore Try reading, preferably without skipping words. Or entire questions. Yes, between waiting for the page to load, the user looking through the page and finding the information they need, and general net congestion, Amazon can survive while delivering pages at .01 Hz. What is it you think that GÇ£the cloudGÇ¥ will be able to do for us? thats in the OP, maybe u should read urself
Serene Repose Saanen Freight Service 981	Posted - 2014.03.05 17:03:00 - [21] - Quote Oh. The Cloud. It would make us feel like we've all been invited to the cool kid's table. I have sworn upon the altar of God eternal hostility toward every form of tyranny over the mind of man.-á
Cannibal Kane My Little Ponies of the Apocalypse 3316	Posted - 2014.03.05 17:06:00 - [22] - Quote Aih-Li Tahn wrote: Tippia wrote: Aih-Li Tahn wrote: your saying Amazon takes 100 seconds to make a webpage? wtf? i dont even get what ur trying to say anymore Try reading, preferably without skipping words. Or entire questions. Yes, between waiting for the page to load, the user looking through the page and finding the information they need, and general net congestion, Amazon can survive while delivering pages at .01 Hz. What is it you think that GÇ£the cloudGÇ¥ will be able to do for us? thats in the OP, maybe u should read urself That is evasion. Your OP does not say anything about what it is you think cloud services can do. You sound like those business idiots that come to my office saying we need the cloud. At which point I sigh and try to explain to them with crayons what a cloud service actually is. EDIT: However after reading some of your other threads and post. I do understand why you said what you did. "I saw him fight by the monument in Jita. He flowed in his Machariel like a Shinto spirit, 800MM shells sprouting in his passing. His hair flowed in the corona of his target's warp core breach. It was truly majestic. And while everyone stared in awe I stole the loot and ran off. Because I am like that." - NEONOVUS
Aih-Li Tahn Ministry of War Amarr Empire 14	Posted - 2014.03.05 17:13:00 - [23] - Quote so its easier to "LOL UR DUMB" than explain why someone is wrong, yes? maybe u could get "crayons" and explain why thousand of computers working together to spread work and reduce ddos is wrong?
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 19823	Posted - 2014.03.05 17:13:00 - [24] - Quote Aih-Li Tahn wrote: thats in the OP, maybe u should read urself No, it really isn't. The OP talks about thwarting DDOSes and adding systems, one of which isn't possible and the other of which is unnecessary. There is nothing in the about how (and why) you think GÇ£the cloudGÇ¥ will in any way help with these things. Quote: than explain why someone is wrong, yes? This has already been done. You keep evading it. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1.
BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie Panhandle Industries 273	Posted - 2014.03.05 17:20:00 - [25] - Quote Aih-Li Tahn wrote: Tippia wrote: Aih-Li Tahn wrote: amazon doesnt run at a 1 hz rate either GÇªbecause it's not a real-time service, so it can survive running at .01 Hz. You're still avoiding the question, by the way. [Y]ou['re] saying Amazon takes 100 seconds to make a webpage? wtf? [I] don[']t even get what [you're] trying to say anymore[.] Hes saying it only has to load a page once every hundred seconds or so. (I assume this number is actually closer to 10-20) Eve has to both send and receive data from each client every second while that client's ship is in space. New player resources: http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Main_Page - General information http://www.evealtruist.com/p/know-your-enemy.html - Learn to PvP http://belligerentundesirables.com/ - Safaris, Awoxes, Ganking and Griefing-á
Aih-Li Tahn Ministry of War Amarr Empire 14	Posted - 2014.03.05 17:22:00 - [26] - Quote BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie wrote: Aih-Li Tahn wrote: Tippia wrote: Aih-Li Tahn wrote: amazon doesnt run at a 1 hz rate either GÇªbecause it's not a real-time service, so it can survive running at .01 Hz. You're still avoiding the question, by the way. [Y]ou['re] saying Amazon takes 100 seconds to make a webpage? wtf? [I] don[']t even get what [you're] trying to say anymore[.] Hes saying it only has to load a page once every hundred seconds or so. (I assume this number is actually closer to 10-20) Eve has to both send and receive data from each client every second while that client's ship is in space. http://aws.typepad.com/aws/2012/04/amazon-s3-905-billion-objects-and-650000-requestssecond.html 650000 per second is not 1 every 10-20 secs and not .01 hz
Cannibal Kane My Little Ponies of the Apocalypse 3316	Posted - 2014.03.05 17:22:00 - [27] - Quote Aih-Li Tahn wrote: so its easier to "LOL UR DUMB" than explain why someone is wrong, yes? maybe u could get "crayons" and explain why thousand of computers working together to spread work and reduce ddos is wrong? Your assumption that cloud is the answer is flawed. Based on one thing... The latency between the distributed services would cause to much latency for a service like EVE that requires real-time processing. "I saw him fight by the monument in Jita. He flowed in his Machariel like a Shinto spirit, 800MM shells sprouting in his passing. His hair flowed in the corona of his target's warp core breach. It was truly majestic. And while everyone stared in awe I stole the loot and ran off. Because I am like that." - NEONOVUS
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 19823	Posted - 2014.03.05 17:23:00 - [28] - Quote Aih-Li Tahn wrote: 650000 per second is not 1 every 10-20 secs and not .01 hz Now divide it by the number of users. Also, S3 is not a single service, nor does it serve web pages. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1.
Spurty V0LTA Triumvirate. 1240	Posted - 2014.03.05 17:26:00 - [29] - Quote Good grief. Many have already 'dope slapped' the Op so I'll exit before "WALL OF TEXT" spews from my fingers explaining things. *signature is not allowed on the EVE Online forums*
Aih-Li Tahn Ministry of War Amarr Empire 14	Posted - 2014.03.05 17:27:00 - [30] - Quote Cannibal Kane wrote: Aih-Li Tahn wrote: so its easier to "LOL UR DUMB" than explain why someone is wrong, yes? maybe u could get "crayons" and explain why thousand of computers working together to spread work and reduce ddos is wrong? Your assumption that cloud is the answer is flawed. Based on one thing... The latency between the distributed services would cause to much latency for a service like EVE that requires real-time processing. i dont think so. if a cloud computer is handleing every place there are ships then the latency only hapens on warps and jumps that are alredy 'slow' enough to hide any wait with async query

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