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Why dont we use the cloud?

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Jandice Ymladris Aurora Arcology 548	Posted - 2014.03.05 17:27:00 - [31] - Quote Aih-Li Tahn wrote: Its what the cloud is for extendible and lots of computing power to adapt to both low and high load and THWART DDOSers! as much as we joke about 'the hamsters' its wrong to not use 21st centry tech to solve problems for thousand of players? just look at the forums and u can see theres a problem. things like Jita might be solve by getting bigger computers but what of multiple fleet battles and MORE SYSTEMS? cloud is the future but it seems the ignored by ccp. why? You're a bit late, EvE already uses 'The Cloud' It's just a marketing word for Internet servers Guess what eve runs on? Yes! Inetrnet Servers! Servers connected to the internet! Forcing the eve software to go through an additional layer of 'servers' (The Cloud you're so fond of) would only make it more vulnerable to DDOS attacks. Aih-Li Tahn wrote: i dont think so. if a cloud computer is handleing every place there are ships then the latency only hapens on warps and jumps that are alredy 'slow' enough to hide any wait with async query Thanks for proving my point, what you describe is what the Eve servers are doing this very moment, they are the cloud/internet -áWormholes, shattered dreams & lost hopes Wing Commander Okuuda discharged dishonorably by the Caldari Navy
Kristalll Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective 18	Posted - 2014.03.05 17:28:00 - [32] - Quote Does the OP not realize that the cloud is just computers just like the current server structure? Does the OP think the cloud is some magical internet entity?
Cannibal Kane My Little Ponies of the Apocalypse 3316	Posted - 2014.03.05 17:28:00 - [33] - Quote Aih-Li Tahn wrote: Cannibal Kane wrote: Aih-Li Tahn wrote: so its easier to "LOL UR DUMB" than explain why someone is wrong, yes? maybe u could get "crayons" and explain why thousand of computers working together to spread work and reduce ddos is wrong? Your assumption that cloud is the answer is flawed. Based on one thing... The latency between the distributed services would cause to much latency for a service like EVE that requires real-time processing. i dont think so. if a cloud computer is handleing every place there are ships then the latency only hapens on warps and jumps that are alredy 'slow' enough to hide any wait with async query haha... Cloud is not a computer. I sure as hell hope you are not in IT. In it's simplest of form... Cloud just means sharing of resources. I would suggest you do a search on the forums on what the hardware of EVE actually is. I think you would quickly understand why your cloud service would not work. "I saw him fight by the monument in Jita. He flowed in his Machariel like a Shinto spirit, 800MM shells sprouting in his passing. His hair flowed in the corona of his target's warp core breach. It was truly majestic. And while everyone stared in awe I stole the loot and ran off. Because I am like that." - NEONOVUS
Aih-Li Tahn Ministry of War Amarr Empire 14	Posted - 2014.03.05 17:31:00 - [34] - Quote Jandice Ymladris wrote: Aih-Li Tahn wrote: i dont think so. if a cloud computer is handleing every place there are ships then the latency only hapens on warps and jumps that are alredy 'slow' enough to hide any wait with async query Thanks for proving my point, what you describe is what the Eve servers are doing this very moment, they are the cloud/internet no right now they are by system only and not really because a lot of systems are on the same 'nodes' there is also bottleneck in a bunch of places which is y i think ccp is so ddos vulnerable. use cloud -> eliminate bottleneck -> profit
Lucas Kell JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance 2599	Posted - 2014.03.05 17:31:00 - [35] - Quote Aih-Li Tahn wrote: so its easier to "LOL UR DUMB" than explain why someone is wrong, yes? maybe u could get "crayons" and explain why thousand of computers working together to spread work and reduce ddos is wrong? I've already explained this. Here's a TL;DR though: - Game server would need considerably more power than a web server - Authentication servers would still be vulnerable - EVE is single threaded, so even if they wanted to spend millions of extra hardware, it's impossible to spread the load. Now it's your turn. Explain to me how they would put eve on "the cloud" and how that would resolve the current situation. Just a hint, saying "amazon does it" isn't an explanation. That's like saying you can get milk out of a rock by saying "that cow is in the same field and you can get milk out of that, so this rock must be milkable". BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie wrote: Hes saying it only has to load a page once every hundred seconds or so. (I assume this number is actually closer to 10-20) Eve has to both send and receive data from each client every second while that client's ship is in space. Actually, he's saying that if the server were put to the position that a request took 100 seconds to respond, while inconvenient, it could still function. A game couldn't reasonably do that, and it certainly wouldn't be able to do that as well as keeping the flow of data active. The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff.
BoBoZoBo Paragon Fury Tactical Narcotics Team 394	Posted - 2014.03.05 17:32:00 - [36] - Quote Does the OP know that technically, the entire EVE construct is already a part of the cloud... know to many by it's original name, the Internet. Maybe the OP Means we should use dropbox as part of the eve nexus. Mabye the OP is trolling everyone. Primary Test Subject GÇó SmackTalker Elite
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 19823	Posted - 2014.03.05 17:33:00 - [37] - Quote Aih-Li Tahn wrote: there is also bottleneck in a bunch of places which is y i think ccp is so ddos vulnerable. use cloud -> eliminate bottleneck -> profit GÇªand how do imagine that it would do that? Also, what bottlenecks do you believe exist that would (or could) be relieved in this way? GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1.
Jandice Ymladris Aurora Arcology 548	Posted - 2014.03.05 17:33:00 - [38] - Quote Aih-Li Tahn wrote: Jandice Ymladris wrote: Aih-Li Tahn wrote: i dont think so. if a cloud computer is handleing every place there are ships then the latency only hapens on warps and jumps that are alredy 'slow' enough to hide any wait with async query Thanks for proving my point, what you describe is what the Eve servers are doing this very moment, they are the cloud/internet no right now they are by system only and not really because a lot of systems are on the same 'nodes' there is also bottleneck in a bunch of places which is y i think ccp is so ddos vulnerable. use cloud -> eliminate bottleneck -> profit Wich would do the very same to what they do now. the cloud is servers: eve runs on servers, ergo no change on DDOS resilience/vulnerability. -áWormholes, shattered dreams & lost hopes Wing Commander Okuuda discharged dishonorably by the Caldari Navy
Lucas Kell JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance 2599	Posted - 2014.03.05 17:34:00 - [39] - Quote Kristalll wrote: Does the OP not realize that the cloud is just computers just like the current server structure? Does the OP think the cloud is some magical internet entity? I'm pretty sure when he is saying "use the cloud", what he really means is "distribute it over more hardware", I just don't think he realises that is what he means, since he has no idea what he's talking about. The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff.
Aih-Li Tahn Ministry of War Amarr Empire 14	Posted - 2014.03.05 17:39:00 - [40] - Quote Lucas Kell wrote: Kristalll wrote: Does the OP not realize that the cloud is just computers just like the current server structure? Does the OP think the cloud is some magical internet entity? I'm pretty sure when he is saying "use the cloud", what he really means is "distribute it over more hardware", I just don't think he realises that is what he means, since he has no idea what he's talking about. that is only sort of what im saying. right now can eve dynamic start servers and instances to manage load and lots of stuff? no!! ccp is limiting by the PHYSICAL SERVERS THEY HAVE! i am understanding and i know that eve is distributed on 'internet servers' (do u guys think im stupid?) but the diff is the curent model is like hiring 3 people to do tech support and their overwelmed sometimes, vs out-sourcing to a tech support company to not get overwelmed because they have 'standby backup'!
Cannibal Kane My Little Ponies of the Apocalypse 3317	Posted - 2014.03.05 17:40:00 - [41] - Quote Aih-Li Tahn wrote: Lucas Kell wrote: Kristalll wrote: Does the OP not realize that the cloud is just computers just like the current server structure? Does the OP think the cloud is some magical internet entity? I'm pretty sure when he is saying "use the cloud", what he really means is "distribute it over more hardware", I just don't think he realises that is what he means, since he has no idea what he's talking about. that is only sort of what im saying. right now can eve dynamic start servers and instances to manage load and lots of stuff? no!! ccp is limiting by the PHYSICAL SERVERS THEY HAVE! i am understanding and i know that eve is distributed on 'internet servers' (do u guys think im stupid?) but the diff is the curent model is like hiring 3 people to do tech support and their overwelmed sometimes, vs out-sourcing to a tech support company to not get overwelmed because they have 'standby backup'! Incorrect... "I saw him fight by the monument in Jita. He flowed in his Machariel like a Shinto spirit, 800MM shells sprouting in his passing. His hair flowed in the corona of his target's warp core breach. It was truly majestic. And while everyone stared in awe I stole the loot and ran off. Because I am like that." - NEONOVUS
Pew Terror Green Associates 104	Posted - 2014.03.05 17:43:00 - [42] - Quote Posting in a "I think computers are magic boxes and random words i heard in the press impress my friends, so i must be computerjesus!!!" thread.
Aih-Li Tahn Ministry of War Amarr Empire 14	Posted - 2014.03.05 17:49:00 - [43] - Quote Cannibal Kane wrote: Remember. Hardware is not dedicated to you in hosted or cloud based service. its not and there is still need for some dedicated processing (eg big battles) but the remainder load can be split up a LOT and done in paralel. ive read about what ccp uses to run eve and it looks limiting in this way
Cannibal Kane My Little Ponies of the Apocalypse 3317	Posted - 2014.03.05 17:52:00 - [44] - Quote Aih-Li Tahn wrote: Cannibal Kane wrote: Remember. Hardware is not dedicated to you in hosted or cloud based service. its not and there is still need for some dedicated processing (eg big battles) but the remainder load can be split up a LOT and done in paralel. ive read about what ccp uses to run eve and it looks limiting in this way Communication between the server then becomes your bottleneck. Which will make thing even worse. "I saw him fight by the monument in Jita. He flowed in his Machariel like a Shinto spirit, 800MM shells sprouting in his passing. His hair flowed in the corona of his target's warp core breach. It was truly majestic. And while everyone stared in awe I stole the loot and ran off. Because I am like that." - NEONOVUS
unidenify Caldari Provisions Caldari State 66	Posted - 2014.03.05 17:54:00 - [45] - Quote Aih-Li Tahn wrote: Cannibal Kane wrote: Remember. Hardware is not dedicated to you in hosted or cloud based service. its not and there is still need for some dedicated processing (eg big battles) but the remainder load can be split up a LOT and done in paralel. ive read about what ccp uses to run eve and it looks limiting in this way They do.... when alliance/corp/player are planning to have big battle, they need to sent form in 24 hours or longer notice to CPP so they can shift and reinforce nodes where big fight may occur.
Lucas Kell JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance 2600	Posted - 2014.03.05 17:56:00 - [46] - Quote Aih-Li Tahn wrote: Lucas Kell wrote: Kristalll wrote: Does the OP not realize that the cloud is just computers just like the current server structure? Does the OP think the cloud is some magical internet entity? I'm pretty sure when he is saying "use the cloud", what he really means is "distribute it over more hardware", I just don't think he realises that is what he means, since he has no idea what he's talking about. that is only sort of what im saying. right now can eve dynamic start servers and instances to manage load and lots of stuff? no!! ccp is limiting by the PHYSICAL SERVERS THEY HAVE! i am understanding and i know that eve is distributed on 'internet servers' (do u guys think im stupid?) but the diff is the curent model is like hiring 3 people to do tech support and their overwelmed sometimes, vs out-sourcing to a tech support company to not get overwelmed because they have 'standby backup'! Yes, we do in fact thing you are stupid, at least as far as tech is concerned. If you would like to explain your background a little better and perhaps demonstrate that you have half a clue, by all means proceed, but continuously repeating "the cloud, THE CLOUD!" doesn't make you an IT expert. Firstly, CPP can't (can't, cannot, are unable to) distribute their load for an individual node to multiple servers, as the code they use is single threaded. One system = one CPU, so they can't even distribute it across cores. To use your own example, imagine you have 3 tech support people doing 3 jobs which only one person can do at any one time. So for example, they are all fixing hardware located in 3 vents that you can only fit a single person in each. Now all of a sudden, those vents heat up to an insane temperature, making it very difficult to work in them. Adding more people to the equation won't get the work done quicker. At most, you could replace the person in the vent with an alternate person who will soon be in the same position as the first. The act of swapping people would take up more time than you gain, and you can't get two people into the vent. So more people are useless. Secondly, you are comparing an already huge network of servers with clusters of web servers specifically designed to balance load. They simply aren't the same tech and can't be dealt with in the same way. The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff.
Hra Neuvosto FinFleet Northern Coalition. 254	Posted - 2014.03.05 17:58:00 - [47] - Quote To the cloud!
Xavier Holtzman Interwebs Cooter Explosion Get Off My Lawn 76	Posted - 2014.03.05 18:02:00 - [48] - Quote Pok Nibin wrote: Aih-Li Tahn wrote: Pok Nibin wrote: Let me guess....you have a Facebook page and you Twitter as well. what do those have anything to do with it? and what if i do? its not like im trying to get u to read them Google the word "dense", then have a quiet moment of thought with yourself. What an ignorant statement. So, you feel that anyone who was a facebook and/or twitter account is dense? Tell me, do you also judge people on the color of their skin and their country of origin? -x
Serene Repose Saanen Freight Service 982	Posted - 2014.03.05 18:07:00 - [49] - Quote This has turned into quite an interesting conversation (for one who just learned to bake biscuit yesterday.) As it happens I just reread the "capacitor" wiki, and couldn't help seeing similarities in the nature of server loads, and current/charge loads. It may be instructive to clarify the various types of data loads involved, and how they're affected when a single player is in a system doing nothing...then firing weapons and running mods (for instance), and what particular data loads are increased as the amount of players and player activity increases to say...Jita size...or even one of the recent epic battles. This, I can only assume, would also include graphics display as a load unto itself....in a way. Anyway, believe it or not, you guys almost have me grasping how all this is working. I have sworn upon the altar of God eternal hostility toward every form of tyranny over the mind of man.-á
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 19824	Posted - 2014.03.05 18:07:00 - [50] - Quote Xavier Holtzman wrote: What an ignorant statement. So, you feel that anyone who was a facebook and/or twitter account is dense? No, just the people who take quotes out of context and make up assumptions about what was actually said. At least now we have an answer to the OP's question: because the cloud provides zero advantages and a truckload of disadvantages. In particular, it doesn't solve any of the issues the OP is worrying about GÇö in fact, it rather risks making them even larger issues than they are right now. There's a reason why I asked what it was he thought it would solve. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1.
Lykouleon GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 1308	Posted - 2014.03.05 18:07:00 - [51] - Quote "The Cloud" is an incredibly over-used buzz word that people (see: mostly higher ups at Microsoft) throw around without really understanding what it is. Hooray "Cloud". Lykouleon > CYNO ME CLOSER so I can hit them with my sword
Serene Repose Saanen Freight Service 982	Posted - 2014.03.05 18:08:00 - [52] - Quote Xavier Holtzman wrote: Pok Nibin wrote: Aih-Li Tahn wrote: Pok Nibin wrote: Let me guess....you have a Facebook page and you Twitter as well. what do those have anything to do with it? and what if i do? its not like im trying to get u to read them Google the word "dense", then have a quiet moment of thought with yourself. What an ignorant statement. So, you feel that anyone who was a facebook and/or twitter account is dense? Tell me, do you also judge people on the color of their skin and their country of origin? I think what Pok was saying is "what do these have to do with it...." is a rather dense question to ask. I have sworn upon the altar of God eternal hostility toward every form of tyranny over the mind of man.-á
Cannibal Kane My Little Ponies of the Apocalypse 3317	Posted - 2014.03.05 18:11:00 - [53] - Quote Lykouleon wrote: "The Cloud" is an incredibly over-used buzz word that people (see: mostly higher ups at Microsoft) throw around without really understanding what it is. Hooray "Cloud". Sales people love using that word. Cloud is just a fancy word for saying Internet. "I saw him fight by the monument in Jita. He flowed in his Machariel like a Shinto spirit, 800MM shells sprouting in his passing. His hair flowed in the corona of his target's warp core breach. It was truly majestic. And while everyone stared in awe I stole the loot and ran off. Because I am like that." - NEONOVUS
Pok Nibin Filial Pariahs 258	Posted - 2014.03.05 18:16:00 - [54] - Quote Xavier Holtzman wrote: What an ignorant statement. So, you feel that anyone who was a facebook and/or twitter account is dense? Tell me, do you also judge people on the color of their skin and their country of origin? Yes. AND, the clothes they wear, if they eat quiche and if they post digressively, obtusely, and willfully ignorantly. Dont fight it; Rejoin your Amarrian patriarchs; You know you want to.
Xavier Holtzman Interwebs Cooter Explosion Get Off My Lawn 76	Posted - 2014.03.05 18:17:00 - [55] - Quote Tippia wrote: Xavier Holtzman wrote: What an ignorant statement. So, you feel that anyone who was a facebook and/or twitter account is dense? No, just the people who take quotes out of context and make up assumptions about what was actually said. At least now we have an answer to the OP's question: because the cloud provides zero advantages and a truckload of disadvantages. In particular, it doesn't solve any of the issues the OP is worrying about GÇö in fact, it rather risks making them even larger issues than they are right now. There's a reason why I asked what it was he thought it would solve. Much like what you're doing .... I guess we can all be "dense" together. -x
Vipre Morte Team JK 96	Posted - 2014.03.05 18:17:00 - [56] - Quote I can't tell if OP is a good troll, or just VERY tech illiterate.
Salene Gralois K-2 1	Posted - 2014.03.05 18:23:00 - [57] - Quote Xavier Holtzman wrote: Tippia wrote: Xavier Holtzman wrote: What an ignorant statement. So, you feel that anyone who was a facebook and/or twitter account is dense? No, just the people who take quotes out of context and make up assumptions about what was actually said. At least now we have an answer to the OP's question: because the cloud provides zero advantages and a truckload of disadvantages. In particular, it doesn't solve any of the issues the OP is worrying about GÇö in fact, it rather risks making them even larger issues than they are right now. There's a reason why I asked what it was he thought it would solve. Much like what you're doing .... I guess we can all be "dense" together. Confirming quoted poster is dense.
Volar Kang NovaTech Academy Against ALL Anomalies 56	Posted - 2014.03.05 18:23:00 - [58] - Quote OP, You do realize that the hardware running this game is some of the most advanced stuff out there right? The I/O performance of the CCP hardware is MILES above what is being offered by cloud based hosting like Amazon and Microsoft.
Serene Repose Saanen Freight Service 982	Posted - 2014.03.05 18:27:00 - [59] - Quote Xavier Holtzman wrote: Tippia wrote: Xavier Holtzman wrote: What an ignorant statement. So, you feel that anyone who was a facebook and/or twitter account is dense? No, just the people who take quotes out of context and make up assumptions about what was actually said. At least now we have an answer to the OP's question: because the cloud provides zero advantages and a truckload of disadvantages. In particular, it doesn't solve any of the issues the OP is worrying about GÇö in fact, it rather risks making them even larger issues than they are right now. There's a reason why I asked what it was he thought it would solve. Much like what you're doing .... I guess we can all be "dense" together. What bug got up YOUR butt? I have sworn upon the altar of God eternal hostility toward every form of tyranny over the mind of man.-á
masternerdguy State Protectorate Caldari State 1447	Posted - 2014.03.05 18:28:00 - [60] - Quote Thread of the year right here. Things are only impossible until they are not.

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