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Why dont we use the cloud?

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Praetor Meles Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic 179	Posted - 2014.03.05 20:47:00 - [91] - Quote Alyth Nerun wrote: The OP reminded me of this guy It is a source of some regret that I can only like this once. Although it's not IT, I work in a highly technical profession - conversations like this one are sadly frequent, and next time I know I'll have this in my head! [insert random rubbish that irritates you personally] is further evidence that Eve is dying/thriving* * delete as required to make your point
KuroVolt The Legion of Spoon Curatores Veritatis Alliance 1505	Posted - 2014.03.05 20:50:00 - [92] - Quote The cloud is toxic. BoBwins Law: As a discussion/war between two large nullsec entities grows longer, the probability of one comparing the other to BoB aproaches near certainty.
Tesco Ergo Sum Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 29	Posted - 2014.03.05 20:54:00 - [93] - Quote Aih-Li Tahn wrote: Its what the cloud is for extendible and lots of computing power to adapt to both low and high load and THWART DDOSers! as much as we joke about 'the hamsters' its wrong to not use 21st centry tech to solve problems for thousand of players? just look at the forums and u can see theres a problem. things like Jita might be solve by getting bigger computers but what of multiple fleet battles and MORE SYSTEMS? cloud is the future but it seems the ignored by ccp. why? This is why: http://www.engadget.com/2014/03/02/stephen-colberts-solution-for-online-privacy-part-cloud-part/
Hallvardr 32	Posted - 2014.03.05 21:19:00 - [94] - Quote and why does everyone keep mentioning data hacking ?? DDoS = distributed denial of service ... meaning it prevents ANYONE from reaching or accessing that service.. and .. +1 to all those who've made the point that the cloud is a marketing buzz word that is nothing more than an ideology of utilizing storage or services accessed via the internet or intranet. Hell .. Western Digital IIRC is now marketing a "personal cloud" that I have not looked at but suspect is a HDD that is on your home LAN and accessible via the internet via some client software .. you are your own cloud .. prepared to be DDoS'd !
Ribor Yordle Kingdom 9	Posted - 2014.03.05 21:30:00 - [95] - Quote wrote: Hell .. Western Digital IIRC is now marketing a "personal cloud" that I have not looked at but suspect is a HDD that is on your home LAN and accessible via the internet via some client software .. you are your own cloud .. prepared to be DDoS'd ! The "personal cloud" is hilarious to me in ways I don't fully understand. Just like this entire thread.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 19834	Posted - 2014.03.05 21:35:00 - [96] - Quote Hallvardr wrote: Hell .. Western Digital IIRC is now marketing a "personal cloud" that I have not looked at but suspect is a HDD that is on your home LAN and accessible via the internet via some client software .. you are your own cloud .. prepared to be DDoS'd ! It's so much more punter-friendly than WAN-NAS, don't you think? GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1.
Hallvardr 32	Posted - 2014.03.05 21:48:00 - [97] - Quote Quote: t's so much more punter-friendly than WAN-NAS, don't you think? two words .. Market Buzz Word .. ok maybe like three words .. but yea .. much friendlier sounding and something a much wider selection of the populous will comprehend.
Aih-Li Tahn Ministry of War Amarr Empire 14	Posted - 2014.03.05 22:28:00 - [98] - Quote Lucas Kell wrote: Aih-Li Tahn wrote: distributed databases exist, right? in ur scenario its like u use more utility companies for more water OK, I'm calling it now, you are just trolling. You've literlly just skipped past the post explaining exactly why what you are stating is impossible and just carried on commenting to the next post. Why don't you go back and reread this post, then understand that you have no clue what you are talking about and request a thread closure. What you are asking for is impossible. The end. holy ** calm down, dude, i read it and i get how it works and yes thats why you cant just put TQ as it is now, on the cloud but with real good code and planing ((eg localise procesing to minmize hi latency/bandwith stuff)) it CAN WORK. they're is no reason to flip out and call discusion over because someone cant reply to evry single post. geez Alyth Nerun wrote:** The OP reminded me of this guy i dont get it...... what dose a guy disrupting a good argument with farm and poop jokes have related with this thread?
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 19837	Posted - 2014.03.05 22:38:00 - [99] - Quote Aih-Li Tahn wrote: i read it and i get how it works and yes thats why you cant just put TQ as it is now, on the cloud but with real good code and planing ((eg localise procesing to minmize hi latency/bandwith stuff)) it CAN WORK. Then you don't get it. Hell, you don't even get EVE, much less GÇ£the cloudGÇ¥ if you think so. Quote: what dose a guy disrupting a good argument with farm and poop jokes have related with this thread? Everything. Oh, and that's not what the video shows, but since you didn't get it, that's kind of to be expectedGÇª GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1.
Aih-Li Tahn Ministry of War Amarr Empire 14	Posted - 2014.03.05 22:40:00 - [100] - Quote i get the cloud alright its relevent to my job what qualification do u have? i know everyone on the internet is a "expert" in stuff but srsly?
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 19837	Posted - 2014.03.05 22:43:00 - [101] - Quote Aih-Li Tahn wrote: i get the cloud alright its relevent to my job I pity your employer. Hell, that makes the video even more spot on. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1.
Mag's the united SCUM. 16849	Posted - 2014.03.05 22:46:00 - [102] - Quote Aih-Li Tahn wrote: i get the cloud alright its relevent to my job what qualification do u have? i know everyone on the internet is a "expert" in stuff but srsly? So far you've not shown much if any knowledge on the subject, so I do not envy your work place one jot. Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the lions will ignore you in the savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless. Kimmi's Thinking Cosy.
Kaarous Aldurald ROC Deep Space The ROC 2959	Posted - 2014.03.05 22:51:00 - [103] - Quote I love how people who have heard some vague computer terms like to throw them around like it means something. The solution is simple, CCP needs to just wave their magic wands, say "The cloud!" and the problem disappears. Not posting on my main, and loving it.-á Because free speech.-á Psychotic Monk for CSM9.
Alyth Nerun Foundation for CODE and THE NEW ORDER CODE. 98	Posted - 2014.03.05 23:03:00 - [104] - Quote Aih-Li Tahn wrote: Alyth Nerun wrote: The OP reminded me of this guy i dont get it...... what dose a guy disrupting a good argument with farm and poop jokes have related with this thread? Now you are trying too hard The sad thing is I hear stuff like the OP all day from people in IT who really should know better. Usually they are people who used to work as engineers and are now in a position where they get more and more disconnected from the actual tech.
Salene Gralois K-2 1	Posted - 2014.03.05 23:18:00 - [105] - Quote Aih-Li Tahn wrote: i get the cloud alright its relevent to my job what qualification do u have? i know everyone on the internet is a "expert" in stuff but srsly? If you really "get" the cloud, you're trolling. If you're not trolling, you really don't "get" the cloud.
Mara Rinn Cosmic Goo Convertor Cosmic Consortium 4948	Posted - 2014.03.05 23:43:00 - [106] - Quote Here is how you stop DDOS attacks: turn off the Internet. Nice and easy, no need for discussing nonsense like "the cloud" or how "sharding is the secret sauce behind web scale." One option is to require all (retail) ISPs in the world refuse to forward packets from their end-point clients with source addresses that would never legitimately exist inside their network (i.e.: reverse path forwarding). Thus you would never be able to trigger an NTP-based DDOS by sending UDP requests to a NTP server with a source address of your intended victim. Unfortunately this is a processor-intensive system which also bears the risk of breaking your network if you make a mistake (or do something that might seem intelligent like multi-home a mail server). Another option is to make it legal to find zombie PCs and break into them to fix the problem (which could include simply turning the hardware off or uninstalling the operating system). As a very flawed analogy, in the UK there are rules in place that allow a citizen to "claim" an abandoned property for maintenance work, perform the required maintenance work, then claim the cost of the work from the local government. I'm not sure of the details, but the system is basically in place to ensure that neighbourhoods don't turn into slums. In Australia there are provisions for land owners to take remedial action on a neighbours property (such as culling pests or removing noxious weeds) and then claim the cost of the work back from the council (who then charges the land-owner). There are also provider-side problems to fix, such as people running world-accessible NTP servers that respond to UDP requests. Configuring an NTP server this way might seem sensible to someone concerned about processor and memory consumption on their NTP server, but opens up the avenue to spoofing attacks as part of a DDOS. One might also try to make it illegal to run certain operating systems when connected to the Internet, such as Windows XP or earlier (mainly Windows XP or earlier, there are few other systems so widely exploited). This solution pleases me because it opens the path to banning all Windows installations. And this pleases the Mac fanatics. "Solving" DDOS attacks is a multifaceted solution because the problem is also multifaceted. But I like my Final Solution better. Just turn off the Internet. Day 0 advice for new players: Day 0 Advice for New Players
Remiel Pollard Stirling Iron Society A Rather Intimidating Group of Individuals 2656	Posted - 2014.03.06 00:49:00 - [107] - Quote Mara Rinn wrote: One might also try to make it illegal to run certain operating systems when connected to the Internet, such as Windows XP or earlier (mainly Windows XP or earlier, there are few other systems so widely exploited). This solution pleases me because it opens the path to banning all Windows installations. And this pleases the Mac fanatics. I agree, to a degree. I stopped using Windows the moment I'd learned enough about Linux to run a stable Ubuntu build all by myself, without help from anyone (like my brother, who essentially taught me everything I know about computers). However... When Windows 7 came around, even he was telling me, "this is actually worth having," so I started dual-booting. I also started using Mint instead of Ubuntu, because **** Unity. (I now use Mint 13 XFCE and haven't upgraded). I still use Win7 and I've never experienced an issue with it. I had some malware shortly after a fresh install on my new PC, but we were expecting that and isolated it quickly. Anyway, it was hard to admit at the time, but it's much easier these days, because I know a quality product when I see it, and Win7 is quality. It's practical, it's user-friendly.... not unlike every Win release though, it has its vulnerabilities, but they're easily patched if you know what you're doing. But yes, every Win OS prior to 7, burn it. Burn it with fire and brimstone. EDIT: I think the crux of the matter is, people don't know what they're doing with computers. Carl Sagan said something relevant to this regard: "We live in a society exquisitely dependent on science and technology, in which hardly anyone knows anything about science and technology." If more people knew what they were doing, computer systems around the world would be more secure, more stable. You don't scare me. I've been to Jita.
knobber Jobbler Bat Country Goonswarm Federation 341	Posted - 2014.03.06 00:54:00 - [108] - Quote Cannibal Kane wrote: Lykouleon wrote: "The Cloud" is an incredibly over-used buzz word that people (see: mostly higher ups at Microsoft) throw around without really understanding what it is. Hooray "Cloud". Sales people love using that word. Cloud is just a fancy word for saying Internet. Not exactly. A cloud service is as simple as running up virtual machines to increase capacity as your load requirements increases due to usage. Not all internet services are hosted in that manner or can be at the moment. But yes, it's used as a horrible buzzword, however no where near as bad as internet 2.0 or HD. Even people who say app should consider what they're saying.
Inzax 69	Posted - 2014.03.06 01:05:00 - [109] - Quote Does anyone ever just say "Damn, sorry. I didn't understand. My idea won't work."
DSpite Culhach 298	Posted - 2014.03.06 01:14:00 - [110] - Quote I'm only getting into this because that way I get to do some googling and maybe learn something. Most are old articles that describe how the CCP cluster is doing. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cloud_computing "... cloud computing is a phrase used to describe a variety of computing concepts that involve a large number of computers connected through a communication network such as the Internet." such as the internet" but I'm pretty sure that the CCP setup ... http://news.softpedia.com/news/EVE-Online-Readies-the-Largest-Supercomputer-in-the-Gaming-Industry-35225.shtml Is pretty much already a "cloud" of it's own, and anyway ... "Each of EVE's 5000+ star systems is loaded as a separate process onto any one of hundreds of IBM blade servers, with some high-load systems being given a server all to themselves" the current code cannot apparently run more then one star system per core. If an attempt was made to "spread" the load out further by connecting to distant - and by that I mean computers connected via more conventional "internet" type lines ... http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=682229 "CCP aims to link the processors and RAM drives of every SOL server together with high-speed low-latency "Infiniband" technology, allowing data transfer at rates of several gigabytes per second." ... and since it's already stated that only infiniband might be able to save EVE from lag, distributing EVE load across connections that are further then out then where Infiniband can reach, ie, anywhere outside the cluster room, would not solve any speed problems. It might only look like the amount of information floating around in the cluster might be small, but it's not. Hence why based on what it's written on those articles, the server load can not be spread out more. I'm surprised the damn system manages to work at all Feel free to correct me If I got something wrong. I apparently have no idea what I'm doing.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 19838	Posted - 2014.03.06 01:14:00 - [111] - Quote Inzax wrote: Does anyone ever just say "Damn, sorry. I didn't understand. My idea won't work." It happens. Don't expect it in threads in GD that actually belong in some other forum section thoughGÇª being that wrong that early is rarely a good sign. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1.
Lucas Kell JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance 2603	Posted - 2014.03.06 01:57:00 - [112] - Quote Aih-Li Tahn wrote: Lucas Kell wrote: Aih-Li Tahn wrote: distributed databases exist, right? in ur scenario its like u use more utility companies for more water OK, I'm calling it now, you are just trolling. You've literlly just skipped past the post explaining exactly why what you are stating is impossible and just carried on commenting to the next post. Why don't you go back and reread this post, then understand that you have no clue what you are talking about and request a thread closure. What you are asking for is impossible. The end. holy **** calm down, dude, i read it and i get how it works and yes thats why you cant just put TQ as it is now, on the cloud but with real good code and planing ((eg localise procesing to minmize hi latency/bandwith stuff)) it CAN WORK. they're is no reason to flip out and call discusion over because someone cant reply to evry single post. geez Nobody here is flipping out. You simply don't understand what you are talking about, so you are throwing out buzzwords like CCP could just go "oh yeah, cloud, why didn't we think of that?". Their codebase would need a total overhaul just to support balancing, and even then, that wouldn't solve the issue. They still would have too much load to sustain a DDOS attack and keep secured connections and gameplay up and running. Whatever it is you work with, whatever you think is so simple is not the case, hence your ridiculous comparisons to amazon. Go back to your cubicle and let CCP do what they do. The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff.
Commissar Kate Team Evil 51456	Posted - 2014.03.06 02:05:00 - [113] - Quote Wow this is still going on? Just look at the quote in my bio for explanation.... People, who talk, don't know. People, who know, don't talk. Unlocking all racial clothing
Yang Aurilen Summary Executions Test Alliance Please Ignore 55	Posted - 2014.03.06 02:41:00 - [114] - Quote Commissar Kate wrote: Wow this is still going on? Just look at the quote in my bio for explanation.... 0/10 too tall and skinny would not pod even with full slave set.
Commissar Kate Team Evil 51462	Posted - 2014.03.06 03:14:00 - [115] - Quote Yang Aurilen wrote: Commissar Kate wrote: Wow this is still going on? Just look at the quote in my bio for explanation.... 0/10 too tall and skinny would not pod even with full slave set. haha I meant signature not bio. People, who talk, don't know. People, who know, don't talk. Unlocking all racial clothing
Fredfredbug4 Eve Defence Force Cult of War 2173	Posted - 2014.03.06 03:16:00 - [116] - Quote The "cloud" is nothing more than a remote server. It's not some mysterious entity that can absorb all information. Watch Fred Fred Frederation and stop cryptozoologist! Fight against the brutal genocide of fictional creatures across New Eden! Is that a metaphor? Probably not, but the fru-fru- people will sure love it!
Caviar Liberta Moira. Villore Accords 477	Posted - 2014.03.06 03:24:00 - [117] - Quote Aih-Li Tahn wrote: Lucas Kell wrote: Kristalll wrote: Does the OP not realize that the cloud is just computers just like the current server structure? Does the OP think the cloud is some magical internet entity? I'm pretty sure when he is saying "use the cloud", what he really means is "distribute it over more hardware", I just don't think he realises that is what he means, since he has no idea what he's talking about. that is only sort of what im saying. right now can eve dynamic start servers and instances to manage load and lots of stuff? no!! ccp is limiting by the PHYSICAL SERVERS THEY HAVE! i am understanding and i know that eve is distributed on 'internet servers' (do u guys think im stupid?) but the diff is the curent model is like hiring 3 people to do tech support and their overwelmed sometimes, vs out-sourcing to a tech support company to not get overwelmed because they have 'standby backup'! EvE online server model
Ralen Zateki Nexis. League of Infamy 93	Posted - 2014.03.06 03:28:00 - [118] - Quote Batelle wrote: the cloud is not filled with magic fairy dust that will solve all the worlds problems. NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!
Caviar Liberta Moira. Villore Accords 477	Posted - 2014.03.06 03:47:00 - [119] - Quote Ribor wrote: wrote: Hell .. Western Digital IIRC is now marketing a "personal cloud" that I have not looked at but suspect is a HDD that is on your home LAN and accessible via the internet via some client software .. you are your own cloud .. prepared to be DDoS'd ! The "personal cloud" is hilarious to me in ways I don't fully understand. Just like this entire thread. "Personal cloud"? Isn't that called a remote access log in?
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 19841	Posted - 2014.03.06 03:52:00 - [120] - Quote Caviar Liberta wrote: "Personal cloud"? Isn't that called a remote access log in? You're making the marketing department very upset now. Meanie. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ Get a good start: Newbie skill plan 2.1.

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