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Bane Nucleus
Sky Fighters
1172
   |
Posted - 2014.03.05 22:18:00 -
[1] - Quote
I was thinking back to my c2 days and it left me wondering. Why is the lower end wormhole "community" far less vocal, in terms of issues/solutions/feedback? I came up with a few ideas, but please, add in your own two cents.
Corps/Alliances not as serious about the game?
Smaller groups of people don't want to get noticed?
They are perfectly content where they are?
DISCUSS!
No trolling please |
Incindir Mauser
Adhocracy Incorporated
Adhocracy
403
|
Posted - 2014.03.05 22:26:00 -
[2] - Quote
I hope you don't mind Bane, but I'd like to add a couple questions.
How can we communicate more effectively with C1-C4 space?
Is there a better medium than the forums to draw c1-c4 groups in?
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Havoc Zealot
Sky Fighters
203
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Posted - 2014.03.05 22:27:00 -
[3] - Quote
Because they aren't 1337 PvP.
Honestly though it probably has to do with the type of player that lives there, it can be seen in other parts of eve such as highsec where the majority of the players are but don't seem to voice their opinion as much where as high class whs or nullsex attracts a different type of person who I guess you can say is more "serious" about internet spaceships than the former.
Serious might not be the best word but I think you know what I mean. |
Rroff
Questionable Ethics.
Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
621
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Posted - 2014.03.05 22:31:00 -
[4] - Quote
While no means a rule (there are some long existing entities in C2s for instance and some C4 farmers have been there a long time - but those are the types who tend to keep themselves to themselves) typically those living in C1-3 tend to be relatively new to wormhole space and less likely to be vocal about long standing issues and/or fully aware of whats what whereas people in C5/6 space tend to as a gross generalisation progressed up through living in lower classes to the end result of living in C5/6 and have broader experience of whats what. |
Bane Nucleus
Sky Fighters
1172
|
Posted - 2014.03.05 23:20:00 -
[5] - Quote
Incindir Mauser wrote: I hope you don't mind Bane, but I'd like to add a couple questions.
How can we communicate more effectively with C1-C4 space?
Is there a better medium than the forums to draw c1-c4 groups in?
You can add all the questions you'd like, especially good ones like that. Added to OP (with credit given of course  )
No trolling please |
Bane Nucleus
Sky Fighters
1172
|
Posted - 2014.03.05 23:27:00 -
[6] - Quote
Now that I have a moment, I can add a bit.
I think lower end wh space has a lot more flux. By this I mean there a lot of come and go corps who give wh space a try and just don't like it. To a lesser degree I think some of the more "in the know" groups don't want to deal with cap blobs/bigger t3 gangs than their smaller corp can handle.
From my own experience, I've tried to get a c2 corp to experience the deeper wormhole life. Honestly, with the exception of a handful of pilots, no one was interested at all. Groups like N0mex, The Night Crew, and others can give a better response than I could as to why that is.
No trolling please |
Oska Rus
Free Ice Cream People
144
|
Posted - 2014.03.05 23:53:00 -
[7] - Quote
I think we low-class dwellers are in wormhole because its great hiding place. So keeping low profile and score is motto of the day. Which also applies to forum. And i alsou doubt that there are that many C1-4 "groups". Those anoms are soloable perfectly and for real group one system is too small if it is not C5/C5. |
Bane Nucleus
Sky Fighters
1173
|
Posted - 2014.03.06 00:03:00 -
[8] - Quote
Oska Rus wrote:I think we low-class dwellers are in wormhole because its great hiding place. So keeping low profile and score is motto of the day. Which also applies to forum. And i alsou doubt that there are that many C1-4 "groups". Those anoms are soloable perfectly and for real group one system is too small if it is not C5/C5.
As someone who is perfectly happy in lower end wh space, what issues/mechanics/ideas do you see as things that need to be looked over or fixed?
No trolling please |
M1k3y Koontz
Thorn Project
Surely You're Joking
550
|
Posted - 2014.03.06 01:48:00 -
[9] - Quote
Havoc Zealot wrote:Because they aren't 1337 PvP.
Honestly though it probably has to do with the type of player that lives there, it can be seen in other parts of eve such as highsec where the majority of the players are but don't seem to voice their opinion as much where as high class whs or nullsex attracts a different type of person who I guess you can say is more "serious" about internet spaceships than the former.
Serious might not be the best word but I think you know what I mean.
Serious? In Wormhole subforum? Please, this wonderful community doesn't know the meaning of "serious" 
How much herp could a herp derp derp if a herp derp could herp derp. |
Seraph Essael
Devils Diciples
League of Infamy
453
|
Posted - 2014.03.06 03:34:00 -
[10] - Quote
Bane Nucleus wrote:Smaller groups of people don't want to get noticed?
To be honest, I think you have hit the nail on the head here. Smaller groups might feel that they cant argue their point across over the forums because they feel that it brings too much negativity to their corp. Even if that's not actually the case.
Also, something I have noticed, its the same few people posting on the forums as of late (mainly RCC and Sky Fighters) and no offence to any of you guys but the threads havent exactly been enticing to join in on unless you are part of those two groups (and a few others).
---
As for the holes themselves when interacting, I think a lot of it is the fact that bigger entities in bigger holes can seem to field more ships than that of the lower classes (and while I know this is not always the case it is something I have noticed personally when a larger group rolls or jumps into the hole I am in / I jump into a larger hole).
Examples: I logged into my hole last week, when I spotted two ventures mining. They had seen me log on via dscan and one quickly disappeared back through into their C4, seconds later a Procurer appeared on Dscan and decided to go to the ore sight and begin can mining. It was obviously bait and I had no idea what they would bring but I assumed I could be in and out before they landed and had me... I set up a bombing run and ready to follow up with torps. About to start the run and a Proteus decloaks and agresses the Procurer. The bait miner called in his fleet of six possibly seven Battlecruisers (Canes, Drakes and a Nado) and then the T3 pilot called in his back up with T3's and BC's... It was a massacre for the baiting fleet. They lost nearly all their ships (if not all). I decided to be cheecky and launch my bomb at the clusterfuck in front of me anyway.
The other example is an example of pure overkill however. I was scouting out a chain, there was myself and three others, in bombers, and I jumped into a C5 bookmarked, dscanned and went tp scout out the system. They obviously had cloaky eyes on the hole as suddenly theres four or five T3's, several BC's, Two assault frigs and they even manned a Moros. After several minutes they knew we were not going to engage yet still camped the hole. A new sig opened and we scanned it out and they split their force. They then decided to attempt to roll the hole to keep us still in theirs. Luckily I just pulled a balls to the wall move and warped zero and jumped the new hole as they jumped a Moros through to crush it, figuring they would rejump the Moros and close the hole rather than risk getting caught and locking themselves out. I was right and they rejumped the Moros and crushed me out the hole.
Basically, the two examples I've put up because there wasn't even a chance that we could we... There was no way they would cut down their forces to facilitate a fair fight, it was more about getting the kills.
The above is not always the case, I am aware and some lower class entities are a force to be reckoned with as I say. But I think many are simply too small of an amount of member on corp or are unwilling to PvP. I've noticed a lot of corps in C4's simple POS up their ships even thought there was only myself head through the hole. They then sit there for an hour and then log off...
---
Edit: Holy balls I think I went off on a slight tangent...Still slightly relative...
As for lower WH class and higher WH class interaction: Maybe the higher classes could take a corp from a lower class wormhole on a roam, group together for a day and just go raiding the chains. I know there might be a security issue for some however.
Or another option. Have WH public fleets NPSI that strike out into other Wormholes (or nullsec to prevent the political shitstorm of blues shooting each other because theyre not purple)...
---
Just my two cents, although I have no idea how to implement the ideas haha
(if you got this far, cheers for reading)
Quoted from Doc Fury: "Concerned citizens: Doc seldom plays EVE on the weekends during spring and summer, so you will always be on your own for a couple days a week. Doc spends that time collecting kittens for the on-going sacrifices, engaging in reckless outdoor activities, and speaking in the 3rd person." |
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Jack Miton
Sky Fighters
3066
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Posted - 2014.03.06 05:12:00 -
[11] - Quote
Being vocal in the WH community is based pretty heavily on corp size and larger corps tend to, generally speaking, live in higher end WHs.
You could look back a few years and see when TALUN and TL lived in low classes, they were still pretty vocal and well known in the community because they were large.
As a corp grows in wspace, the tendency is to move to a C5/6 because that's where the 'cool', or some might say 'special', kids play so you get the feedback loop of larger corps being more vocal because they have more voices and larger groups moving to higher WHs so higher WHs become more vocal because the groups living there are.
Just look at any thread started here by a member of a large WH group. The first 2-3 pages are basically immediately flooded by their corp mates.
Stuck In Here With Me:-á http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/ |
Incindir Mauser
Adhocracy Incorporated
Adhocracy
403
|
Posted - 2014.03.06 05:13:00 -
[12] - Quote
#goddamneddoublepost |
Incindir Mauser
Adhocracy Incorporated
Adhocracy
403
|
Posted - 2014.03.06 05:14:00 -
[13] - Quote
Seraph Essael wrote:~Said a bunch of really good stuff.~
Thank you very much for sharing your experiences.
I can see how someone from a smaller corp could see the c5 and c6 corporations as somewhat cliquish.
As far as I can see c1-c4's are actually more populated than c5's and c6's per system. I think the threat of capital escalation, ease of invasion, and the fact that our income streams allow us to dumpster T3's without much consideration is a factor as well.
I really want to express that "little guys" are as much a part of the W-space community as those of us that are "Elitist Wormhole Jerks". I have heard comments in the past expressing disdain for c1c4 people as being nothing but carebears and deserve nothing more than purgation by fire. I don't think that's fair. Carebears can be turned into Kodiaks, and being dismissive of small groups of guys isn't helping anything.
ADHC got it's start in a c4. And by executive decision we moved to a c5 and haven't looked back.
Quote:As for lower WH class and higher WH class interaction: Maybe the higher classes could take a corp from a lower class wormhole on a roam, group together for a day and just go raiding the chains. I know there might be a security issue for some however.
Or another option. Have WH public fleets NPSI that strike out into other Wormholes (or nullsec to prevent the political shitstorm of blues shooting each other because theyre not purple)...
These are great ideas. And yes there are opsec issues with doing such things, but that can be negated with careful planning. The Red Circle, a corporation we've had a long-standing friendship with, has run an apprenticeship program very similar to this. I think this can be expanded upon and made something of a W-space institution.
Expanding this communication will take quite a bit of legwork. But it's something I'd be willing to help with.
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AssassinationsdoneWrong
The Nexus 7's
85
|
Posted - 2014.03.06 05:38:00 -
[14] - Quote
We live in a C4 with a C2 static so we have the benefit of a moderate income from the 4 and the pew in the 2 chain.
I'm not the usual C4 resident I guess but I think it's easy to see why people don't post in WH threads and why corps don't have C5-C6 aspirations at all it just takes an impartial peek at the thread menu.
Nearly everyone who asks a question is trolled to bits if they do it by offering an opinion. It's just the way the WH thread is, probably nothing that can be done about it but it's intimidating to the lower C grade (C grade <<< Perhaps if people stopped calling them lower classes it might help?)
I also think the blue ring culture is pushing people ways they don't want to go. They chose wormholes for isolation, patience of the kill and to do their own thing. To "progress" and have any kind of hope for a Higher grade WH life means joining a megacorp, alliance or some serious butt kissing/pet culture. They also know from these forums that the C5/C6 police will expect them to whelp pretty much as soon as their pos shield has charged up or face eviction.
This is not a post leveled at ANYONE but before you troll mine to death take a step back, look at that thread menu and see how intimidating it is for a 10-15 man corp to comprehend let alone consider higher grade WH's and/or commenting here at all without getting hundreds of bags of dicks thrown at them.
(Let throwing commence)
AdW
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ROSSLINDEN0
AQUILA INC
Verge of Collapse
216
|
Posted - 2014.03.06 06:42:00 -
[15] - Quote
The only lower class wh person i can think of who posts on here is tyrant scorn or whatever that pricks name is so do we really want more idiots like him? |
Bleedingthrough
Raptor Navy
22
|
Posted - 2014.03.06 07:27:00 -
[16] - Quote
The problem is: all are pussies ... and some of them are too ignorant to notice they are pussies.
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AssassinationsdoneWrong
The Nexus 7's
87
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Posted - 2014.03.06 07:51:00 -
[17] - Quote
Bleedingthrough wrote:
The problem is: all are pussies ... and some of them are too ignorant to notice they are pussies.
Thanks for making my point.
The way I see it there are Thousands of such "Pussies" in C1's thru C4's who don't have a comment or wouldn't risk it because of pillocks with comments just like that.
Bane, quite rightly, is trying to find out what motivates them, makes them vocal and of course ultimately vote which I commend.
The fact you look like you got owned lately in a C3 "*****" hole should probably not be mentioned here.
AdW
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corbexx
eXceed Inc.
No Holes Barred
173
|
Posted - 2014.03.06 08:12:00 -
[18] - Quote
AssassinationsdoneWrong wrote:The fact you look like you got owned lately in a C3 "*****" hole should probably not be mentioned here.
haha thats funny.
OK really off topic but i just spent 10 minutes looking for a gif of axe from dota 2 saying Dunked or you got dunked
if some one could sort me a funny gif i'll happily pay them (best one if loads do gifs)
I think the big issue is alot from lower classes as people have said want to stay off the radar. Ive found it much easier to just mail people who ask for help on forums, probably have 12 to 15 people i regularly get mails from to help with advice in some way.
I know a few groups used to have training corpsand others who recruit from bigger groups liek drop bears and bni, SSC used to take alot from eve uni (i think)
I think alot of smaller corps are also just mates who dont want to go to larger groups but just do there own thing
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Hatshepsut IV
Cascading Failure
Un.Bound
32
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Posted - 2014.03.06 08:38:00 -
[19] - Quote
Quote:Corps/Alliances not as serious about the game?
Smaller groups of people don't want to get noticed?
They are perfectly content where they are?
So..........
I'm not sure how exactly to word this. I'll try though. You've met us Bane, so you at least can have an idea of what we are like.
Here's the other side of the coin though from my perspective as the leader of a w-space corp.
When I first moved my corp into a lower-class WH it was a learning experience. A lot of dying and trial by error (and dying). It also started very small. In fact at first it was just two people, we were serious about it though. This bears explaining, you can be serious about spaceships but not serious about making a go of W-space, let me elaborate....
When we started I did lots of research/scouting and prep. I had an expectation that it would be brutal, I remember when I first tried living in null knew it would be worse. I scoured this forum, I googled, read blogs....watched videos and killboard fits and generally spent a month combing the interwebs for every form or tidbit I could find related to wormholes to get a better idea. Throughout that (w)hole time though I was silent.
I never posted, or really interacted.....it all payed off in making the jump to w-space work well for us though. We found we liked the style of play and the way it rewarded the dedicated. Ill be frank, if you can make starting off in low-class w-space work your either dumb or lazy, maybe both but that is perhaps just my view. I personally made it work because I looked for info. That's IMO the difference because a successful W-space person and just a tourist. If you can't figure things out on your own or at least find the answers without being shown them you'll just fight a losing uphill battle against bobs whims.
So fast forward, new corp new to w-space players with a foothold in a J-number. Yes we didn't want to be noticed, and yes we were content where we were it fulfilled the needs we had. It took us a while of experience and object lessons and making friends (in the only true way of w-space, that of being murdered by them first) because we really got to the point where we felt like we had some of those answers and opinions to offer on what we feel about w-space. TLDR, we observed and lurked (scouted the targets in the parlance of our peoples) before we felt we had learned enough to join in the fun.
That being said, having grown as a player beyond the newbro who wrote the j-number of each bookmark into wormholes, having grown from a corp of 2 to a partner in an alliance and taken on the roles of helping to mentor the newbros we have taken on guess what.........we left lower class wormholes.
We reside in C5 now because much like the earlier C2 fulfilled our needs the C5 and the options it gives us are what we are looking for.
I think its kind of a case of cosmic coincidences. That same reasons/things to do/factors that lead people to not really interact/be vocal are the same reasons they don't live in the higher class wormholes. Bane, look at it this way. When your new in town the wormhole bogeyman is a terrifying spectre it takes a while to realize the shadow he casts is worse then his bite. (Unless your a farmer ;D )
Quote:I really want to express that "little guys" are as much a part of the W-space community as those of us that are "Elitist Wormhole Jerks". I have heard comments in the past expressing disdain for c1c4 people as being nothing but carebears and deserve nothing more than purgation by fire. I don't think that's fair. Carebears can be turned into Kodiaks, and being dismissive of small groups of guys isn't helping anything. Sure its true, there are a lot of carebears in low-class. Theres also the odd group like us that is just finding their sea legs and working hard to become and eliteist jaded bunch of assholes. :D |
Lloyd Roses
Blue-Fire
534
|
Posted - 2014.03.06 09:38:00 -
[20] - Quote
Big difference:
c5/c6-dweller goes pve, buys ships, goes scout with corp to find stuff and lose earlier bought ships to other players.
c1-c4-dweller spends all that time farming to end up with as much cash. No time for POS-spinning/forum-warrior'ing.
"I honestly thought I was in lowsec"
Moving pictures |
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Oska Rus
Free Ice Cream People
145
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Posted - 2014.03.06 09:47:00 -
[21] - Quote
Bane Nucleus wrote:As someone who is perfectly happy in lower end wh space, what issues/mechanics/ideas do you see as things that need to be looked over or fixed?
Actually i am not perfectly content i lower end but i just dont have capabilities to go higher or ISK to leave w-space entirely.
But the thing wich occurs to me most ofte is that we have PI hauler, Ore/gas hauler, ammo hauler, minerals hauler but no pos fuel hauler. That would be the most needed addition to my wh life. Refining arrays with 100% teoretical yield would also be great and could make me to do some ore mining. Data and relic sites are horrenduous but loot spew abolishment might fix that too.
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Rek Seven
Probe Patrol
Awakened.
1397
|
Posted - 2014.03.06 09:51:00 -
[22] - Quote
I'd say that people that live in the lower class systems are pretty happy with low class. Lower class wormholes have various advantages including easy access to k-space, caps can't be brought in and some systems offer isolation. People can choose a low class wormhole that suits their play style, so they have little to complain about.
I don't think the same can be said for c5/c6 space. You farm, you roll and you blob. Good or bad, the mechanics encourage this behavior.
+1 |
Lloyd Roses
Blue-Fire
534
|
Posted - 2014.03.06 09:53:00 -
[23] - Quote
Big difference:
c5/c6-dweller goes pve, buys ships, goes scout with corp to find stuff and lose earlier bought ships to other players.
c1-c4-dweller spends all that time farming to end up with as much cash. No time for POS-spinning/forum-warrior'ing.
AssassinationsdoneWrong wrote:To "progress" and have any kind of hope for a Higher grade WH life means joining a megacorp, alliance or some serious butt kissing/pet culture. They also know from these forums that the C5/C6 police will expect them to whelp pretty much as soon as their pos shield has charged up or face eviction.
(Let throwing commence)
Actually, not really. The megacorp, superalliance or butt kissing is something you got to do if you want to easily smooth into someones wormhole. With all the empty space around, there is nothing stopping you from just taking one of the many empty *highclass-holes*, for yourself, for yourself and alts, or even for the corp you're currently at.
Chances of getting evicted in a c5 are minimal, as long as you don't take a magnetar or leave four moros floating in an unstronted POS - people rarely shoot structures if not for a fight.
"I honestly thought I was in lowsec"
Moving pictures |
Lloyd Roses
Blue-Fire
534
|
Posted - 2014.03.06 09:56:00 -
[24] - Quote
Rek Seven wrote:[...]
I don't think the same can be said for c5/c6 space. You farm, you roll and you blob. Good or bad, the mechanics encourage this behavior.
I doubt there is a major difference if you blob a hostile fleet with a t3-blob (less blobbing than you might think), or if you blob a ratting drake with 10 cloaky T3s
"I honestly thought I was in lowsec"
Moving pictures |
Rek Seven
Probe Patrol
Awakened.
1397
|
Posted - 2014.03.06 10:14:00 -
[25] - Quote
^ I'm not sure what you're getting at.
+1 |
Bloemkoolsaus
Viperfleet Inc.
Disavowed.
123
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Posted - 2014.03.06 10:52:00 -
[26] - Quote
Bane Nucleus wrote:I was thinking back to my c2 days and it left me wondering. Why is the lower end wormhole "community" far less vocal, in terms of issues/solutions/feedback? I came up with a few ideas, but please, add in your own two cents.
C5 space is so empty that the groups in c5/c6 space have nothing to do but post on the forums. The guys in the lower class wormholes have way more stuff going on and don't have time to look at forums. |
kparko
Sky Fighters
0
|
Posted - 2014.03.06 11:07:00 -
[27] - Quote
Bloemkoolsaus hit the nail on the head. That is the answer Bane. Close the thread already. |
Tul Breetai
Impromptu Asset Requisition
715
|
Posted - 2014.03.06 11:20:00 -
[28] - Quote
Lower class corps are more xenophobic, as they're usually either posbears or are new and moving up, na+»ve to the realities of w-space. I've heard all kinds of theories about how and why the boogie man corp will show up and evict you for whatever reason, and posting opinions on the forums can be intimidating in the same vein. C5 groups will troll amongst themselves but when a C2 guy speaks up, they gang up on him. The C2 guy only has his corpmates to defend him, as the rest of C2 space doesn't give a **** about him, so he's quickly outnumbered.
There's nothing worse than an EVE player, generally considered to be top of the food chain in the MMO world, that cannot smacktalk with wit and coherency. |
Bane Nucleus
Sky Fighters
1175
|
Posted - 2014.03.06 11:29:00 -
[29] - Quote
Tul Breetai wrote:Lower class corps are more xenophobic, as they're usually either posbears or are new and moving up, na+»ve to the realities of w-space. I've heard all kinds of theories about how and why the boogie man corp will show up and evict you for whatever reason, and posting opinions on the forums can be intimidating in the same vein. C5 groups will troll amongst themselves but when a C2 guy speaks up, they gang up on him. The C2 guy only has his corpmates to defend him, as the rest of C2 space doesn't give a **** about him, so he's quickly outnumbered.
LOL! It's true. When I was in a c2, I was vocal as hell. Needless to say, I spent most of the time defending my low class way of life as I got **** on by most c5/c6 corps. Some of them still try to **** on me 
No trolling please |
BayneNothos
United Electro-Magnetic Federation
Business Alliance of Manufacturers and Miners
35
|
Posted - 2014.03.06 13:25:00 -
[30] - Quote
So as a C4er, I don't post much because I don't know where you all are. I have 5 W-Space channels open and I rarely see anyone chat in them. Any pokes at life last maybe a few back and forths before people go quiet again. Excluding the last couple of weeks the EvE-O forums have been pretty quiet, nothing that really interests me to comment on.
I am content where I am, I'm not really interested in cap warfare so a C4 suits me nicely in that regard.
Also worth remembering that there's a pretty big isk divide between the C1-4's and the C5/6ers. Those escalations help you guys out a lot and as such we can't go throwing Tech3's around crazily too much. We also tend to be smaller entities and as such can't run 20 man fleets to go up against you at a whim.
My thoughts on W-Space are in the other thread. |
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