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Is the Naglfar worth a **** yet?

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Lilianna Star Vagrant Empress 171	Posted - 2014.03.13 17:12:00 - [1] - Quote I noticed that they changed it so it effectively has 3 turret slots (I'm assuming they just didn't want to change the in game model.) So, is it? Or is it still completely outclassed?
Sexy Cakes Have A Seat 719	Posted - 2014.03.13 17:27:00 - [2] - Quote Its pretty good now. Not today spaghetti.
Lilianna Star Vagrant Empress 171	Posted - 2014.03.13 17:29:00 - [3] - Quote Sexy Cakes wrote: Its pretty good now. Yaaaay I have disillusioned myself of any hope of flying one within my lifetime, but still. Yaaaay. It's the ship that got me into EVE Online.
Liam Inkuras Aunenen Civil Liberties Union 873	Posted - 2014.03.13 20:18:00 - [4] - Quote Lilianna Star wrote: Sexy Cakes wrote: Its pretty good now. Yaaaay I have disillusioned myself of any hope of flying one within my lifetime, but still. Yaaaay. It's the ship that got me into EVE Online. The tall piece of driftwood got you into this game, when there are ships like the Abaddon? Whatever floats your boat I wear my goggles at night. Any spelling/grammatical errors come complimentary with my typing on a phone
Frostys Virpio The Mjolnir Bloc The Bloc 1014	Posted - 2014.03.13 20:26:00 - [5] - Quote Liam Inkuras wrote: Lilianna Star wrote: Sexy Cakes wrote: Its pretty good now. Yaaaay I have disillusioned myself of any hope of flying one within my lifetime, but still. Yaaaay. It's the ship that got me into EVE Online. The tall piece of driftwood got you into this game, when there are ships like the Abaddon? Whatever floats your boat Whatever fills space in EvE float my boat...
Lilianna Star Vagrant Empress 171	Posted - 2014.03.13 21:10:00 - [6] - Quote Liam Inkuras wrote: Lilianna Star wrote: Sexy Cakes wrote: Its pretty good now. Yaaaay I have disillusioned myself of any hope of flying one within my lifetime, but still. Yaaaay. It's the ship that got me into EVE Online. The tall piece of driftwood got you into this game, when there are ships like the Abaddon? Whatever floats your boat I loved the vertical design... http://i.imgur.com/FBvALDI.jpg
Dorian Wylde Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 438	Posted - 2014.03.13 21:43:00 - [7] - Quote Liam Inkuras wrote: Lilianna Star wrote: Sexy Cakes wrote: Its pretty good now. Yaaaay I have disillusioned myself of any hope of flying one within my lifetime, but still. Yaaaay. It's the ship that got me into EVE Online. The tall piece of driftwood got you into this game, when there are ships like the Abaddon? Whatever floats your boat It's almost like everyone has their own opinion about what ships look good.
Lady Naween Immortalis Inc. Shadow Cartel 505	Posted - 2014.03.14 02:42:00 - [8] - Quote behind the moros but it is the second best dread atm. and the best if you need alpha
Lilianna Star Vagrant Empress 172	Posted - 2014.03.14 02:56:00 - [9] - Quote Lady Naween wrote: behind the moros but it is the second best dread atm. and the best if you need alpha I thought the Revelation was one of the best dreads? What happened to that?
Shurgin Ambraelle The Flying Dead Havoc. 0	Posted - 2014.03.14 05:05:00 - [10] - Quote Lilianna Star wrote: Lady Naween wrote: behind the moros but it is the second best dread atm. and the best if you need alpha I thought the Revelation was one of the best dreads? What happened to that? Never saw a REV stand up against a moros Tank wise. Plus the senturies on a moros gave it a "fourth" gun. Have been out of the game a while so things may have changed.
Morgan Torry Arma Purgatorium Neutral in Local. 238	Posted - 2014.03.14 05:30:00 - [11] - Quote Shurgin Ambraelle wrote: Lilianna Star wrote: Lady Naween wrote: behind the moros but it is the second best dread atm. and the best if you need alpha I thought the Revelation was one of the best dreads? What happened to that? Never saw a REV stand up against a moros Tank wise. Plus the senturies on a moros gave it a "fourth" gun. Have been out of the game a while so things may have changed. For starters dreads no longer have drone bays...haven't for well over two years. Secondly the Moros' strength is beginning siege on top of its targets. The Rev, much like the Nag, can project damage farther and more effectively if the fight moves away from it. That said, like in subcap warfare, blasters win if they're in front of your nose. Otherwise it's a debate between whether you need projection and how you plan to get it. Plus, AMARR VICTOR Arma Purgatorium - Once for the State, Now for the King Lowsec life is the only life for me o9
Lilianna Star Vagrant Empress 172	Posted - 2014.03.14 12:31:00 - [12] - Quote I've always heard that the Revelation was one of the best because you didn't need to restock their ammo.
Joshua Foiritain Coreli Corporation Ineluctable. 576	Posted - 2014.03.14 13:27:00 - [13] - Quote Lilianna Star wrote: Lady Naween wrote: behind the moros but it is the second best dread atm. and the best if you need alpha I thought the Revelation was one of the best dreads? What happened to that? It used to be. Then CCP rebalanced the nag and it became the best dread by far. Coreli Corporation: Small gang PVP & Drug Production, Apply now!
Blodhgarm Dethahal Transcendent Sedition Dustm3n 84	Posted - 2014.03.14 13:31:00 - [14] - Quote The Revelation is the best anti Shield Dread arguably and has the strongest armor tank out there is addition to the best capacitor time thanks to its naturally strong capacitor. 8 Lows \o/ However, Dreads tend to take on a blap role now a days for which Moros and Nag, Moros especially, are better. Or if you go anticapital Dreads Shield Moros or Nag are better thanks to their extream Shield Burst Tank. -Bl+¦d
Gypsio III Questionable Ethics. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork 1141	Posted - 2014.03.14 14:24:00 - [15] - Quote Revelation is trash, Naglfar all the way.
Rab See Fool Mental Junket 43	Posted - 2014.03.14 14:47:00 - [16] - Quote Lady Naween wrote: behind the moros but it is the second best dread atm. and the best if you need alpha Only if you arent shooting a large POS ... for a looong time. Rev wins in my book. But its good now, 2nd or 3rd best depending on context. DPS isnt the issue, its projection of that DPS that counts.
March rabbit Federal Defense Union 1337	Posted - 2014.03.14 15:37:00 - [17] - Quote Lilianna Star wrote: I've always heard that the Revelation was one of the best because you didn't need to restock their ammo. actually ammo for Dreads is not a problem at all.... Once i bought 5000 super expensive 'shadow something antimatter XL'. And i still have like 4000 somewhere in stations. This is after many CTAs in one Moros, losing it in fight, buying and fitting second and losing it again. Actually Moros has 3 guns with ROF of 6 seconds (can be wrong here, far too long in high-sec). So in 1 minute you spend 30 items of ammo. Nothing actually. The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
RavenPaine RaVeN Alliance 724	Posted - 2014.03.14 19:34:00 - [18] - Quote Selectable Damage. Massive Alpha. Capless Weapons. What's not to like?
Last Wolf Umbra Wing 8	Posted - 2014.03.14 20:15:00 - [19] - Quote The main reason that the Nag is the best dread is because it is freaking vertical! Vacuums suck.
Lojak 2501 Three Sails 16	Posted - 2014.03.14 20:25:00 - [20] - Quote GÖÑ the tower of power!
Alberik Eusebius Corporation 37	Posted - 2014.03.14 20:26:00 - [21] - Quote RavenPaine wrote: Selectable Damage. Massive Alpha. Capless Weapons. What's not to like? this is the description of a phoenix .. and it sucks most times
Rab See Fool Mental Junket 43	Posted - 2014.03.14 21:03:00 - [22] - Quote March rabbit wrote: Lilianna Star wrote: I've always heard that the Revelation was one of the best because you didn't need to restock their ammo. actually ammo for Dreads is not a problem at all.... Once i bought 5000 super expensive 'shadow something antimatter XL'. And i still have like 4000 somewhere in stations. This is after many CTAs in one Moros, losing it in fight, buying and fitting second and losing it again. Actually Moros has 3 guns with ROF of 6 seconds (can be wrong here, far too long in high-sec). So in 1 minute you spend 30 items of ammo. Nothing actually. But that is the problem, reload times mean lower DPS, unmatched to cyles its not optimal. Rev lets you fire and forget, whole cycle DPS.
Goldensaver Lom Corporation Brothers of Tangra 383	Posted - 2014.03.15 06:24:00 - [23] - Quote Rab See wrote: March rabbit wrote: Lilianna Star wrote: I've always heard that the Revelation was one of the best because you didn't need to restock their ammo. actually ammo for Dreads is not a problem at all.... Once i bought 5000 super expensive 'shadow something antimatter XL'. And i still have like 4000 somewhere in stations. This is after many CTAs in one Moros, losing it in fight, buying and fitting second and losing it again. Actually Moros has 3 guns with ROF of 6 seconds (can be wrong here, far too long in high-sec). So in 1 minute you spend 30 items of ammo. Nothing actually. But that is the problem, reload times mean lower DPS, unmatched to cyles its not optimal. Rev lets you fire and forget, whole cycle DPS. Not really seeing too much of an issue. Perfect skills a cycle of XL blasters is 5.74s. Reload of the same is 5s. You're barely losing a cycle. And at the 5.74s cycle you fire 52 rounds per gun per siege cycle max. Capacity allows for 80 rounds to be loaded. You only ever risk losing damage to reloads if you siege green, and even then it's less than a single cycle (or up to 8s if you allow for some latency and small server tick issues). And to be fair, the difference in DPS between the Moros and Revelation more than makes up for the "reload" issue. A 3 T2 heatsink, meta gun, faction multifrequency Revelation gets 9761 with perfect skills, where as a 3 T2 MFS, meta gun, faction ammo Moros gets 13421 for a difference of 3660 DPS. Assuming the players are paying enough attention and you only lose 8s to reload, to make up for that 8s of firing the Revelation gets you have to shoot for a whopping 21.34 seconds. You can do 459.2s of continuous fire. So literally everything after 22 seconds is extra DPS over the Revelation. Hell, even if you're snoozing and let it go for a full minute, you still make up for the lost damage after 160 seconds. I'm sorry, but the Revelation really isn't a great ship. It also has poor tracking making it kinda weak for a tracking dread. It was only considered good with the Moros before the rebalance because it was one of only two primarily turret dreads which meant it was one of two that could be used to blap. Now that the Naglfar can blap, the Revelation is pretty meh. Alberik wrote: RavenPaine wrote: Selectable Damage. Massive Alpha. Capless Weapons. What's not to like? this is the description of a phoenix .. and it sucks most times No, it missed something out of the description for a Phoenix. To describe the Phoenix you'd have to include the following: **** poor damage application. Like, literally the worst. Captial missiles. (this is the only really necessary line, the previous one is redundant with it.)
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative. 14100	Posted - 2014.03.15 18:10:00 - [24] - Quote Lilianna Star wrote: I've always heard that the Revelation was one of the best because you didn't need to restock their ammo. Instant ammo change is also nice 1 Kings 12:11
Lilianna Star Vagrant Empress 172	Posted - 2014.03.15 22:13:00 - [25] - Quote RavenPaine wrote: Selectable Damage. Massive Alpha. Capless Weapons. What's not to like? Well, I'm coming from the time when the Naglfar didn't have the 50% damage bonus and instead had two missile hardpoints to "make up for it."
RavenPaine RaVeN Alliance 726	Posted - 2014.03.15 23:01:00 - [26] - Quote Lilianna Star wrote: RavenPaine wrote: Selectable Damage. Massive Alpha. Capless Weapons. What's not to like? Well, I'm coming from the time when the Naglfar didn't have the 50% damage bonus and instead had two missile hardpoints to "make up for it." The split weapons system back then, was consistent with other Minmatar ships. At that time, Nag had 4 DPS hardpoints, and it was a selling point for the ship. Sadly, many pilots trained for Citadel Torps, and will never ever use them now. CCP dropped the launchers, and upped the gun bonus, decreasing training time and kept the best weapon for the ship. It was clearly an improvement over the original design. I think it is the most versatile dread now, for the 3 reasons I listed before. Selectable damage means you always have the best applicable DPS People will make Blap Dread arguments, but act like Apha isn't included in that argument. Capless weapons, needs no explanation. Nag is probably best, shield tanked. That might be its only down side. (most cap fleets armor) But it's not like you can get reps when you're sieged anyways. It can be armor tanked though.
Last Wolf Umbra Wing 8	Posted - 2014.03.15 23:54:00 - [27] - Quote Could someone please enlighten me on what a "blap" dread is? Vacuums suck.
RavenPaine RaVeN Alliance 726	Posted - 2014.03.16 00:10:00 - [28] - Quote Blap dreads are tracking enhanced. Capital weapons have a hard time hitting sub-capitals, but a good blap dread can one shot a smaller faster target. (support ships for a cap engagement) 1 good, solid, wrecking shot = BLAP
Icylce The Chosen 0nes DARKNESS. 17	Posted - 2014.03.17 14:31:00 - [29] - Quote RavenPaine wrote: Selectable Damage. Massive Alpha. Capless Weapons. What's not to like? + it has only 2 weapons hence is a bit cheaper to fit
Hatsumi Kobayashi Origin. Black Legion. 460	Posted - 2014.03.17 15:28:00 - [30] - Quote RavenPaine wrote: Nag is probably best, shield tanked. Why do you say that No sig.
Mawderator Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion 64	Posted - 2014.03.17 15:52:00 - [31] - Quote Hatsumi Kobayashi wrote: RavenPaine wrote: Nag is probably best, shield tanked. Why do you say that Blood Union and other groups have created gank fits that are capable of burst tanking 70k-100k dps.
RavenPaine RaVeN Alliance 727	Posted - 2014.03.17 17:50:00 - [32] - Quote Hatsumi Kobayashi wrote: RavenPaine wrote: Nag is probably best, shield tanked. Why do you say that Dreads are generally put on the field as DPS platforms. If you shield tank, you can fill the bottom slots with damage mods/tracking mods. If you armor tank, you have to share those bottom slots with hardeners, reps, etc. Even if you could match the tanks, you lose DPS if you armor.
Sintiar Loffwagea The Scope Gallente Federation 1	Posted - 2014.03.17 17:52:00 - [33] - Quote people say it's the best because it's V E R T I C A L and i get it's it's freaky Awesome Vertical .
Rab See Fool Mental Junket 45	Posted - 2014.03.17 23:10:00 - [34] - Quote RavenPaine wrote: Hatsumi Kobayashi wrote: RavenPaine wrote: Nag is probably best, shield tanked. Why do you say that Dreads are generally put on the field as DPS platforms. If you shield tank, you can fill the bottom slots with damage mods/tracking mods. If you armor tank, you have to share those bottom slots with hardeners, reps, etc. Even if you could match the tanks, you lose DPS if you armor. But you get more slots to tank in lows and can run that tank for twice the amount of time compared to shield tankers. You have more than enough before diminishing returns on damage mods in the lows, and you can fit TCs where shield tankers cant, or gimp theirs to do the same. Its called variation .. and we all know that armour tanking wins hands down when it comes to supporting those dreads.
Blodhgarm Dethahal Transcendent Sedition Dustm3n 85	Posted - 2014.03.17 23:37:00 - [35] - Quote If you Armor Tank the Nag I'd asume it would be Arty Snipe fit, freeing mids for SeBos and TCs. If you want to Armor Tank an Auto Nag I recomend getting a Moros. The massive tank you get from Shield Tank on a Nag is too big to ignore. Granted its more burst tanking than armor, but I'd like to see an Armor Dread tank 4 other Dreads for a siege cycle and live without refiting, and when you drop siege all you need is a carrier to cap you back up and you are good to go for another cycle. And thats all before refits -Bl+¦d
RavenPaine RaVeN Alliance 727	Posted - 2014.03.18 00:19:00 - [36] - Quote Rab See wrote: But you get more slots to tank in lows and can run that tank for twice the amount of time compared to shield tankers. You have more than enough before diminishing returns on damage mods in the lows, and you can fit TCs where shield tankers cant, or gimp theirs to do the same. Its called variation .. and we all know that armour tanking wins hands down when it comes to supporting those dreads. I am speaking specifically of the Nag. It has equal slots in the lows and mids. 6 each. Full tank in the mids and full gank in the lows, is the best fit for ship. I mean...what else would you do with 6 mids? Utility Dread with average tank and average DPS? Yeah clearly the Moros is made to armor tank. Same for Rev with 8 lows and 4 mids Again; The Nag can be armor tanked, but I don't think it's the best fit for it. As for supporting dreads. I've never seen much support that was centered around the dread. The dread go's into siege and it's on its own until the cycle runs out. If it can't tank until the cycle is over, it cannot receive support. If it DID make it through the cycle, (That means you have already proven you can tank the current DPS) chances are, all it needs is cap. (If it was shield tanked, there should be a LOT LESS armor to repair) At that point, you jump it out, or re-engage siege. Generally, if a dread is on the field, it should be in siege or gtfo. Ship vs ship, I'd put 3 shield Nags on the field against 3 armor Nags any day of the week. And I would feel confident fielding them in an Armor fleet.
Lilianna Star Vagrant Empress 173	Posted - 2014.03.18 04:10:00 - [37] - Quote It is amazing to hear that the 3500mm cannons see use.
Gypsio III Questionable Ethics. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork 1145	Posted - 2014.03.18 11:17:00 - [38] - Quote Rab See wrote: But you get more slots to tank in lows and can run that tank for twice the amount of time compared to shield tankers. You have more than enough before diminishing returns on damage mods in the lows, and you can fit TCs where shield tankers cant, or gimp theirs to do the same. Its called variation .. and we all know that armour tanking wins hands down when it comes to supporting those dreads. Tanking duration is a meaningless number. For tanking, the ones that matter are total cap reservoir and efficiency of conversion of cap to EHP, together with burst tank to ensure you get a chance to convert that cap to EHP. For WH use, the SMC-rigged shield Naglfar is king. The only problem is figuring out how it fits in with your armour T3s...
Hagika Hipsters In Space 208	Posted - 2014.03.22 18:10:00 - [39] - Quote Alberik wrote: RavenPaine wrote: Selectable Damage. Massive Alpha. Capless Weapons. What's not to like? this is the description of a phoenix .. and it sucks most times It sucks all of the time, and ccp doesnt seem like they care to fix it, just like caldari medium weapons and torps.
Daniel Plain Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 1899	Posted - 2014.03.24 04:45:00 - [40] - Quote Hagika wrote: Alberik wrote: RavenPaine wrote: Selectable Damage. Massive Alpha. Capless Weapons. What's not to like? this is the description of a phoenix .. and it sucks most times It sucks all of the time, and ccp doesnt seem like they care to fix it, just like caldari medium weapons and torps. there should be some rapid cruise missile launchers with 10k dps and 3min reload. "I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings" -MXZF
Lunkwill Khashour Darwins Lemmings Holding Darwins Lemmings 184	Posted - 2014.03.24 23:37:00 - [41] - Quote The Nag is arguably best dread atm: - Similar dps to Moros AFTER you select appropiate ammo - Massive burst tank while gank fitted - Weapons are cap immune
RcTamiya Leontis Satan's Unicorns 5	Posted - 2014.03.25 12:28:00 - [42] - Quote Lunkwill Khashour wrote: The Nag is arguably best dread atm: - Similar dps to Moros AFTER you select appropiate ammo - Massive burst tank while gank fitted - Weapons are cap immune Might add : - awesome tracking (can increase tracking even more with depleted uranium which deals decent omnidamage) - good cap recharge - very good cap to ehp abilites with rigs - fast align time - highest top speed - dps doesn't decrease on range as much as other dreads - consumes less ammo due to 1 less gun - is vertical

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