EVE Search - ffs ccp dont ruin the game

All Channels

Ships and Modules

ffs ccp dont ruin the game

» Click here to find additional results for this topic using Google

Monitor this thread via RSS [?]

Pages: 1 2 3 4 :: [one page]
Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 2 post(s)
Ethan Tomlinson	Posted - 2006.04.28 04:20:00 - [1] This is the last time i will mention this... DONT RUIN THIS AMAZING GAME BY CREATING A THIRD TIER OF BATTLESHIPS the current battleships are perfectly ballanced...dont create another tier that will make tier 2 bs's obsolete. this game doesn't need a caldari rail sniper boat as much as all the idiots would love one. what difference does it make whether one can snipe from 200km in a megathron or 300km in a caldari tier 3 sniper bs? it really doesn't make much of a difference at all because pilots of both ships would have to make a really big judgement error to be locked down in either ship...its just being in a sniping bs 300km from targets gives u about 5 more seconds to see how close a tackler is before you have to warp out. as for the gallente bs...megathron is fine dont add a pure blasterboat that would make it obsolete just change the tracking bonus to an mwd bonus if it matters that much...to me it doesn't even matter that much and thats the only bs i can fly. amarr doesn't need a drone boat since the arma can fly plenty of heavy drones iirc(?) and i see no use for an extra minmatar boat since the tempest is great as either a sniper or close range ship.... for the love of all that is eve and holy dont add a third tier bs...it is useless content and would make current bs's obsolete and imo unbalance the game since everyone would just be flying the latest and the greatest since it would have 1 extra slot somewhere ,ET
O'Sirius	Posted - 2006.04.28 04:30:00 - [2] I fail to see how any of the proposed tier 3 BSes you mentioned would make tier 1&2 ones obsolete. Not like everyone is flying tier 2 BSes just because they are the top tier BS out there. What makes you think the balance is going to be so far off when a 3rd one gets added?
Hydrian Alante	Posted - 2006.04.28 04:34:00 - [3] LOL Nobody (maybe not even CCP) knows about the final Stats, Boni and Roles of the new Tier 3 BS. But the whining has already begun.
Kel Shek	Posted - 2006.04.28 04:35:00 - [4] you don't think its possible that they have enough creativity to do something different with these, rather than just a tweaked version of the second tier's? Amarr: uhh, no, the Apoc isn't a drone boat, and if you think being able to fit a flight of heavy drones makes it count... uhh. no. I think the concept art we've seen LOOKS like a drone ship, and would be nifty for it to be one. it'd hurry up my training of amarr BS by alot, (training Gallente BS 4 right now... can't fly any other BS's) Minm, ... ok, I got no clue on the minm one. I have no interest in matar ships except as part of some of the faction ones. Caldari... it looks like a railboat. they don't have a BS railboat. why not add one? whats the harm in diversity? Gallente. I'm not sure what that one looks like it should be, but I think it could be a cool Rail/missile hybrid, like being able to go 5/3 to either side or half and half. that'd be awsome IMO. Diversity is good! no reason not to add more options. if this was about Tech 2 Battleships, I might be more prone to agree. but I don't see why some people get so up in arms over third tier BS's. ~~~~~ To see a World in a Grain of Sand And Heaven in a Wild Flower Hold Infinity in the palm of your hand And Eternity in an hour ~~William Blake
Idara	Posted - 2006.04.28 04:36:00 - [5] Calm down. More content is better.
Malthros Zenobia	Posted - 2006.04.28 04:37:00 - [6] OMG TEH SKIE IZ FAILINGGG! Originally by: Dark Shikari Istvaan Shogaatsu's ego, when combined with a veldspar asteroid, would create 500 titans. Too bad he's never mined. RAWR!11 Sig Hijack!11 - Imaran
Nukeitall	Posted - 2006.04.28 04:38:00 - [7] ZE GAME IS RUINED WRRRRRRRRYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY
Ethan Tomlinson	Posted - 2006.04.28 04:39:00 - [8] trust me kel shek i would much rather have tech 2 bs's than tier 3... I just dont think they are necessary and it seems the only reason they are being added is because people want a pure caldari rail boat because they think it thats whats necessary... it isn't!
Ethan Tomlinson	Posted - 2006.04.28 04:40:00 - [9] ZOMGZZZZORRRSSSS ZEEE GAME ISSS ZZEEERUIIINZZZEDDDD ..damn zzzz's
Idara	Posted - 2006.04.28 04:40:00 - [10] Originally by: Ethan Tomlinson trust me kel shek i would much rather have tech 2 bs's than tier 3... I just dont think they are necessary and it seems the only reason they are being added is because people want a pure caldari rail boat because they think it thats whats necessary... it isn't! Huh? Tech 2 BS's are going to be retarded almost without a doubt, Tier 3's add more depth to the game as you get more than the same BS's appearing over and over again.
Gierling	Posted - 2006.04.28 04:47:00 - [11] I actually think this is a valid concern, however I think its very dependent on the final balancing. A gallente Tier3 with 8 turrets, an MWD and a Falloff Bonus will be balanced and interesting. A Gallente Tier 3 with a damage bonus and 8 turrets is TOO much. Same for all the other ships, A Caldari BS with 6 turrets and an optimal bonus is fine, 7 turrets and its too much. An Amarr ship or a Minnie ship that can fit 8 tach II's or 8 1400II's is just plain wrong. PRoposal to fix blobbing and make Charisma useful.
Ethan Tomlinson	Posted - 2006.04.28 04:49:00 - [12] i think the game is great atm in that u see a very diverse crowd of ships flying around ranging from hacs to t1 cruisers to destroyers to t1 and t2 frigs and t1 bs's...basically you see every level and tier of ship flying in gangs nowadays meaning most of the ship classes are adiquatly(sp?) ballanced. I dont think another tier of bs is necessary and that what ccp needs to do is concentrate on getting the rest of tech 2 stuff out as well as kali upgrades like the t2 manufacturing fixes and tech 2 ammo balancing done... again the balance of ships i see in pvp nowadays is perfect... tech1 flying newer pilots can efficiently participate in pvp in tech1 ships no matter what tier they may be... im not saying this balance will necessarily be thrown out of whack by a new tier of bs's but it certainly wont help the matter nor make things better...
Lynne Moreland	Posted - 2006.04.28 04:51:00 - [13] If they add tier 3 battleships, they shouldn't neccessarily be better than whats currently on offer... the Caracal is tier 2, but is a better damage dealer than a Moa, the Vexor is tier 2 and since RMR is just as good as a Thorax (altho lacking PwrGrid), ok the omen isnt as good as the maller (sue me), but id go on a limb and say the Stabber is a better ship than the Rupture (at least intercepting stuff). How they currently stack: Amarr: - Apoc (big tank, mid-long range, decent damage, half drones, no ewar) - Gedd (low tank, mid-long range, big damage, full drones, no ewar) Caldari: - Scorp (low tank, big range, low damage, half drones, insane ewar) - Raven (big tank, big range, big damage, half drones, some ewar) Gallante: - Domi (big tank, low range, big damage, insane drones, some ewar) - Mega (low tank, long range, big damage, full drones, no ewar) Minmatar: - Typh (big tank, low/long range, low-decent damage, full drones, no ewar) - Temp (medium-big tank, low/long range, big damage, half drones, some ewar) In my opinion they should keep the battleship balance as it is whilst at the same time adding a bit of depth to their class to fill in the holes... ie a Caldari Rail Sniper/Blaster boat, A Gallante Tanking Ship with Medium Range (say a domi without the drones and a blaster only style bonus), a Minmatar Medium range Ewar type ship and an Amar Close Range Ewar. It is a tough nut to *****, but im sure there is a way to add varioution whilst not shelving current battleships.
Idara	Posted - 2006.04.28 04:52:00 - [14] Originally by: Gierling An Amarr ship or a Minnie ship that can fit 8 tach II's or 8 1400II's is just plain wrong. I'm pretty sure somewhere CCP said that the Tier 3 BS's won't have more grid/cpu than the Tier 2's, they're just going to be filling a different niche than the current Tier 2's, so that pretty much rules out a pure 8x Tach II or 8x 1400mm II sniper ship, which is a good thing.
Istvaan Shogaatsu	Posted - 2006.04.28 04:55:00 - [15] Originally by: Gierling An Amarr ship or a Minnie ship that can fit 8 tach II's or 8 1400II's is just plain wrong. Considering that the tier 1 and 2 Amarr BS can mount full racks of tachyons, I don't think it would be overpowered if the tier 3 can as well. And if the thought of eight piddly tachs upsets you, wait until you find out what they're really going to mount... >:)
Lynne Moreland	Posted - 2006.04.28 04:56:00 - [16] Originally by: Ethan Tomlinson i think the game is great atm in that u see a very diverse crowd of ships flying around Well, with the exception of the Typhoon, dont really see too many of them just yet... but im sure that will change in time.
Sepp Gaylord	Posted - 2006.04.28 05:19:00 - [17] i like threads starting like -> Originally by: Ethan Tomlinson ... DONT RUIN THIS AMAZING GAME BY CREATING A THIRD TIER OF BATTLESHIPS ... ,ET calm down, have yourself a cup of coffee and trust in ccp ! nothing will ruin this game, its here for long, and it will be here for a long time. *falling asleep again
Ethan Tomlinson	Posted - 2006.04.28 05:34:00 - [18] would rather have a whiskey sour but to each his/her own... i really want to know why everybody wants a new tier bs so bad... i am honestly thinking the caldari one is the main reason...i think people just want to be able to have a ship with an optimal bonus so they can snipe from farther with more guns... why not just use megathron...u would only get a 25% optimal bonus with a caldari ship anyways meaning like 50km extra for rails :(
Dri Kulsane	Posted - 2006.04.28 05:40:00 - [19] Originally by: Ethan Tomlinson i think the game is great atm in that u see a very diverse crowd of ships flying around I'm at work so haven't checked how long you have been playing. We are in need to something new, tech II only makes us elites because of the advantages they create. Tiers make the game more interesting and allow ALL players to try it out. Back to reading the rest of this thread now.
babylonstew	Posted - 2006.04.28 06:17:00 - [20] Originally by: Ethan Tomlinson would rather have a whiskey sour but to each his/her own... i really want to know why everybody wants a new tier bs so bad... i am honestly thinking the caldari one is the main reason...i think people just want to be able to have a ship with an optimal bonus so they can snipe from farther with more guns... why not just use megathron...u would only get a 25% optimal bonus with a caldari ship anyways meaning like 50km extra for rails :( last i checked, every caldari optimal to rails was 10% per lvl
Nyphur	Posted - 2006.04.28 06:18:00 - [21] I believe this is a case of "The sky is falling! The sky is falling!". Ethan, does the megathron make the dominix obsolete? No, it does a different job. The new ships will be the same, doing different jobs than the current ones. Eve-Tanking.com - For the ultimate tanking spreadsheet and resources.
Wrench Head	Posted - 2006.04.28 06:30:00 - [22] Originally by: Nyphur I believe this is a case of "The sky is falling! The sky is falling!". Ethan, does the megathron make the dominix obsolete? No, it does a different job. The new ships will be the same, doing different jobs than the current ones. Nyphur says it perfectly. Tier 3 can add another level of fun to a fleet. I think they will be a welcome addition to EVE.
Alliaanna Dalaii	Posted - 2006.04.28 06:59:00 - [23] Tier 3 will add more variety and content to each race, which by no means is a bad thing. I dont know about anyone else, But I fly one race, Amarr. This is a roleplaying game... and my charachter is amarrian, so go figure. I dont have uber amounts of Sp I just have a mere 20million Sp pretty much all in Amarr PvP fields. "Omg if you want a railboat as caldari go fly a megathron" ??? Huh. Just because you dont have a specialised charachter doesn't mean were all in the same boat. Apart from the guys with a hell of a lot of Sp I cant see why you would train other races ships Ive got 9.1 mill Sp in amarr gunnery and no way near finished to the point il be happy... Tbh Id like some sort of missile boar for the amarr (3 Launcher / 4 Turret ?) , Id settle for a drone ship But thats just me Alliaanna Official Follower of =-= Royal Hiigaran Navy =-=
Jim McGregor	Posted - 2006.04.28 07:02:00 - [24] Originally by: Ethan Tomlinson This is the last time i will mention this... DONT RUIN THIS AMAZING GAME BY CREATING A THIRD TIER OF BATTLESHIPS the current battleships are perfectly ballanced...dont create another tier that will make tier 2 bs's obsolete. this game doesn't need a caldari rail sniper boat as much as all the idiots would love one. what difference does it make whether one can snipe from 200km in a megathron or 300km in a caldari tier 3 sniper bs? it really doesn't make much of a difference at all because pilots of both ships would have to make a really big judgement error to be locked down in either ship...its just being in a sniping bs 300km from targets gives u about 5 more seconds to see how close a tackler is before you have to warp out. as for the gallente bs...megathron is fine dont add a pure blasterboat that would make it obsolete just change the tracking bonus to an mwd bonus if it matters that much...to me it doesn't even matter that much and thats the only bs i can fly. amarr doesn't need a drone boat since the arma can fly plenty of heavy drones iirc(?) and i see no use for an extra minmatar boat since the tempest is great as either a sniper or close range ship.... for the love of all that is eve and holy dont add a third tier bs...it is useless content and would make current bs's obsolete and imo unbalance the game since everyone would just be flying the latest and the greatest since it would have 1 extra slot somewhere ,ET Maybe you are confusing the next tier battleships with the next tech battleships or something. Tech 2 battleships will quite possibly be better than tech 1, but tier 3 wont be better than tier 2. Just different. Thats what we all hope anyway. --- pwned
Rodj Blake	Posted - 2006.04.28 07:21:00 - [25] Are tier 1 battleships useless because of tier 2 battleships? No. Will tier 3 battleships make the tier 2 ones obsolete? No. Dolce et decorum est pro imperator mori
Kaylon Syi	Posted - 2006.04.28 07:25:00 - [26] Originally by: Ethan Tomlinson This is the last time i will mention this... DONT RUIN THIS AMAZING GAME BY CREATING A THIRD TIER OF BATTLESHIPS the current battleships are perfectly ballanced...dont create another tier that will make tier 2 bs's obsolete. this game doesn't need a caldari rail sniper boat as much as all the idiots would love one. what difference does it make whether one can snipe from 200km in a megathron or 300km in a caldari tier 3 sniper bs? it really doesn't make much of a difference at all because pilots of both ships would have to make a really big judgement error to be locked down in either ship...its just being in a sniping bs 300km from targets gives u about 5 more seconds to see how close a tackler is before you have to warp out. as for the gallente bs...megathron is fine dont add a pure blasterboat that would make it obsolete just change the tracking bonus to an mwd bonus if it matters that much...to me it doesn't even matter that much and thats the only bs i can fly. amarr doesn't need a drone boat since the arma can fly plenty of heavy drones iirc(?) and i see no use for an extra minmatar boat since the tempest is great as either a sniper or close range ship.... for the love of all that is eve and holy dont add a third tier bs...it is useless content and would make current bs's obsolete and imo unbalance the game since everyone would just be flying the latest and the greatest since it would have 1 extra slot somewhere ,ET Do you have any clue about the future combat the DEVs want to make happen? Right now they are developing a system to transform the 2003 EVE Online into 2006 and beyond EVE Online. Moving forward keeps the game in perspective and combat fresh. You just dont have all the information and this is merely a "do not change my game" post. Sorry but we all gotta let EVE become what the DEVs have in mind even if the game changes. ----- If I was you... I'd run.
Kaylon Syi	Posted - 2006.04.28 07:33:00 - [27] Originally by: Ethan Tomlinson would rather have a whiskey sour but to each his/her own... i really want to know why everybody wants a new tier bs so bad... How long have you been playing EVE? Cause Caldari used to have 2 Rail BSs, the Raven and the Scorpion. There were lots of posts like yours when they changed them to what they are today... and the most posts we have about the Raven for the past year and a half have been "omg nerf it because it is tooooo ublar." Seriously now... the game is going to be fine and quite honestly I am tired of looking at the same shipd since 2003. BCs and Caps have been the best content I have seen in a while. Tier 2 was just same ol same ol with uber stats. ----- If I was you... I'd run.
Gabriel Karade	Posted - 2006.04.28 07:34:00 - [28] Tier 3 battleships are coming and your inane rantings are not going to make the slightest bit of difference to change that. The will not ruin the game, more content keeps this game fresh. So bring on those Tier 3's, I for one am looking forward to it. ---------- - Office Linebacker -
Car Wars	Posted - 2006.04.28 08:16:00 - [29] You gotta be the first one to want to nerf something thats not even ingame or on the test server, let alone published. Ethan, you win the Nerf Nerd of the year price. Come pick up your price: a brand new velator in 0.0. Comes webbed and scrambled.
LWMaverick	Posted - 2006.04.28 08:30:00 - [30] Ruining the game, by adding a Tech 1, tier 3 battleship... Right.. Lets take caladari as an example, since you're saying they dont need one, and that it would make tier 1 and 2 "obsolote".. You got to the "...will make tier 2 bs's obsolote", but never got to an explanation why. Tier 2 dosent make tier 1 obsolote, why should tier 3 make tier 2 obsolote? They won't, its just another t1 ship, with another role, is that so damn hard to get? Repeat after me: New t1 ships - > For The Win Spirits in the night! Allll Niiight!!
Dust Angel	Posted - 2006.04.28 08:35:00 - [31] Iv seen a lot of domies spank the crap out of teir 2 bses. another teir adds another lattice on the already spiraled web of diversity. _____________________________________ Stressed out with empire politics? Sansha's Nation helps clear your mind.
Anal awereness	Posted - 2006.04.28 08:52:00 - [32] Originally by: Kel Shek Gallente. I'm not sure what that one looks like it should be, but I think it could be a cool Rail/missile hybrid, like being able to go 5/3 to either side or half and half. that'd be awsome IMO. die... ---------------------- are you aw3re?
Yarek Balear	Posted - 2006.04.28 08:58:00 - [33] Where has it been said that the addition of another class of battleship (being termed Tier3) is actually more powerful than the existing Tier 1 or Tier2 ships ??? I've seen nothing to confirm this and the only time it's mentioned is in whiney posts like this... The addition of another level of Battleship with slightly different focus e.g. Caldari rail boat on a par with the Tier1 Geddon would be fine. The Raven would still be the king of the Caldari BS, but there would be more variety and diversity... I see nothing wrong with that and just because someone thinks the sky will fall down by adding more ships, doesn't make it true... This is a bit like some countries going on earthquake alert during the recent solar eclipse - it was bourne out of baseless fear rather than reasoned argument... Keep doing what you're doing CCP - a caldari railboat would be nice imo...
Ithildin	Posted - 2006.04.28 09:02:00 - [34] Originally by: Kel Shek Amarr: uhh, no, the Apoc isn't a drone boat, and if you think being able to fit a flight of heavy drones makes it count... uhh. no. I think the concept art we've seen LOOKS like a drone ship, and would be nifty for it to be one. it'd hurry up my training of amarr BS by alot, (training Gallente BS 4 right now... can't fly any other BS's) Get bent ;) Seriously. If you want good drone ships, then you DONT train Amarr, you train the race spacialized in drones - Gallente. If CCP was adding a tier ONE battleship and upping the current battleships one tier, THEN an Amarr drone ship would be reasonable. As it looks now, however, there's no STRONG or DEDICATED armour tanker battleship. The Apoc just has a lot of capacitor, which really doesn't help it with tanking all that much. I'd much rather the Tier 3 Amarrian one was focused on tanking (3/4 mid 8 low and 5% armour resistance bonus). Quote: Minm, ... ok, I got no clue on the minm one. I have no interest in matar ships except as part of some of the faction ones. Well, drawing lines from cruisers and frigates they'd be looking at a target painter boat, but that'd cause an outrage because target painters aren't appreciated. However, I think that if the bonus would be potent enough, people would like it like they did when target painters were new (and essentially were better at increasing your tracking than webs were). (This ship might have 8 turrets, grid to comfortably fit a full rack of 1400mms with max skills and +5% rate of fire and +10% target painter range and eff. bonuses) Other than that, Minmatar has an... alpha strike... ship in Tempest, but there's room for an even more scary alpha striker (7 turrets and +10% damage bonus anyone?) Quote: Caldari... it looks like a railboat. they don't have a BS railboat. why not add one? whats the harm in diversity? Seem to stomp on some missguided Caldarian pride that they don't use turrets. Mostly, I think it has to do with their previous turret boats being somewhat less of a hit. Hells, had CCP decided to introduce a new Gallentean drone boat around early Castor, I think the Gallenteans would be real angry, but now a days even the Amarr are pining for drone boats. Quote: Gallente. I'm not sure what that one looks like it should be, but I think it could be a cool Rail/missile hybrid, like being able to go 5/3 to either side or half and half. that'd be awsome IMO. Hands off you dirty boy! Seriously, though, Gallenteans are even less a missile race than are Amarr. I simply cannot understand why people have gotten it in their heads that Gallente are supposed to have some missile/turret hybrids (especially when all missile/turret hybrids have been about as good as a corsette in combat). Besides that, we've already got a split missile/turret battleship in the Typhoon, and the goal with tier 3 is not to add an improved version of existing battleships. Drawing direct parallels from a) frigate and b) cruiser as well as c) storyline however, it does make a lot of sense if the Gallentean tier 3 were a sensor dampener ship. Not that it'd be exciting to fly in fleets (read: "shoot me!" sign), but in smaller gangs a dampener ship would be awesome. The Megathron is the blaster boat, and the devs better make it function as one. Gallente are also focused on skirmish rather than fleet (due to focusing on short range). AS SUCH, a split missile/turret layout isn't inconcievable (sp?), but without bonuses to either system. I kond of liked the bonus for sensor resolution someone proposed in a different thred. (7 mid 6 low +5% dampener eff. and +20% scan resolution - puts the lock times down to battlecruiser levels) Although it's a rather weak bonus (set) as such - maybe too weak for a tier 3 ship. New sig coming soonÖ Drone musing (MC-boards)
Astrum Ludus	Posted - 2006.04.28 09:07:00 - [35] IF TEH AMAR TEK 3 AINT 8, 8, 8 W/ 32000 GRID N 800 CPU I QUIT TEH GAME FOR REEL DIS TIEM
LWMaverick	Posted - 2006.04.28 09:14:00 - [36] Originally by: Astrum Ludus IF TEH AMAR TEK 3 AINT 8, 8, 8 W/ 32000 GRID N 800 CPU I QUIT TEH GAME FOR REEL DIS TIEM 800 cpu... Bah.. Not enough Spirits in the night! Allll Niiight!!

Tuxford	Posted - 2006.04.28 10:11:00 - [37] Just to ease your minds then I have this to say about the tier 3 ships. They are only called tier 3 ships that doesn't mean that they will just be better than the other two battleship. In fact tier 2 battleships aren't necessarily better for every situation than tier 1 battleships. In some situations you'd prefer a scorpion over a raven, a dominix over a mega, an arma over an apoc. Typhoon has its own issues which the recent bonus changes should fix. The key thing is to make it different, not better. Its pretty obvious for me that the Caldari will be a railboat. Saying that its a missile race not a turret race is simply not true. Its just like saying Gallente are drone race not a turret race. Caldari use missiles and railguns like Gallente use drones and blasters. Well they can in reality use both railguns and blasters though. As for stats that are on them now then they are hardly final and all speculation about them at this point is just that, speculation. _______________

Nafri	Posted - 2006.04.28 10:26:00 - [38] Originally by: Tuxford Just to ease your minds then I have this to say about the tier 3 ships. They are only called tier 3 ships that doesn't mean that they will just be better than the other two battleship. In fact tier 2 battleships aren't necessarily better for every situation than tier 1 battleships. In some situations you'd prefer a scorpion over a raven, a dominix over a mega, an arma over an apoc. Typhoon has its own issues which the recent bonus changes should fix. The key thing is to make it different, not better. Its pretty obvious for me that the Caldari will be a railboat. Saying that its a missile race not a turret race is simply not true. Its just like saying Gallente are drone race not a turret race. Caldari use missiles and railguns like Gallente use drones and blasters. Well they can in reality use both railguns and blasters though. As for stats that are on them now then they are hardly final and all speculation about them at this point is just that, speculation. Drones hardly take SP to train for, a bit unfair since you need tons of Skillpoins as caldari now (~6.5 million electronics/~6 million gunnery/~ 5 million missles) would be great if such things could get balanced anytime soon Summertime - Campingtime!
Aeon Valerii	Posted - 2006.04.28 10:28:00 - [39] Originally by: Tuxford Just to ease your minds then I have this to say about the tier 3 ships. They are only called tier 3 ships that doesn't mean that they will just be better than the other two battleship. In fact tier 2 battleships aren't necessarily better for every situation than tier 1 battleships. In some situations you'd prefer a scorpion over a raven, a dominix over a mega, an arma over an apoc. Typhoon has its own issues which the recent bonus changes should fix. The key thing is to make it different, not better. Its pretty obvious for me that the Caldari will be a railboat. Saying that its a missile race not a turret race is simply not true. Its just like saying Gallente are drone race not a turret race. Caldari use missiles and railguns like Gallente use drones and blasters. Well they can in reality use both railguns and blasters though. As for stats that are on them now then they are hardly final and all speculation about them at this point is just that, speculation. I wub you. I'm a leaf on the wind. Watch how I soar.
Nafri	Posted - 2006.04.28 10:29:00 - [40] Originally by: Ithildin Originally by: Kel Shek Seriously, though, Gallenteans are even less a missile race than are Amarr. I simply cannot understand why people have gotten it in their heads that Gallente are supposed to have some missile/turret hybrids (especially when all missile/turret hybrids have been about as good as a corsette in combat). Besides that, we've already got a split missile/turret battleship in the Typhoon, and the goal with tier 3 is not to add an improved version of existing battleships. Drawing direct parallels from a) frigate and b) cruiser as well as c) storyline however, it does make a lot of sense if the Gallentean tier 3 were a sensor dampener ship. Not that it'd be exciting to fly in fleets (read: "shoot me!" sign), but in smaller gangs a dampener ship would be awesome. The Megathron is the blaster boat, and the devs better make it function as one. Gallente are also focused on skirmish rather than fleet (due to focusing on short range). AS SUCH, a split missile/turret layout isn't inconcievable (sp?), but without bonuses to either system. I kond of liked the bonus for sensor resolution someone proposed in a different thred. (7 mid 6 low +5% dampener eff. and +20% scan resolution - puts the lock times down to battlecruiser levels) Although it's a rather weak bonus (set) as such - maybe too weak for a tier 3 ship. With other words, you dont want to have a useless piece of junk with just 1 damage bonus as well. But if you ever will get a BS with damp bonus, you will face a splitted weapon system, cause celestis has it as well Summertime - Campingtime!
Theron Gyrow	Posted - 2006.04.28 10:33:00 - [41] Originally by: Nafri Drones hardly take SP to train for, a bit unfair since you need tons of Skillpoins as caldari now (~6.5 million electronics/~6 million gunnery/~ 5 million missles) would be great if such things could get balanced anytime soon 5M in drones here, and there are lots of useful skills left I could take to level 5. I can't use all T2 heavy drones, either. -- Gradient's forum

Tuxford	Posted - 2006.04.28 10:34:00 - [42] Originally by: Nafri Drones hardly take SP to train for, a bit unfair since you need tons of Skillpoins as caldari now (~6.5 million electronics/~6 million gunnery/~ 5 million missles) would be great if such things could get balanced anytime soon No you still can just train missiles if you want. In fact even if you are caldari you don't need to train gunnery. You can just fly, Kestrel, Caracal, Cerberus, Raven. In fact once the tier 2 and tier 3 bs and the hawk changes come in you can almost always choose between a missile ship and a turret ship. I'll grant you that that if you want to fly all the caldari ships you need both good gunnery and missile skill but nobody is forcing you to do that. _______________

Apertotes	Posted - 2006.04.28 10:37:00 - [43] Originally by: Nafri Originally by: Tuxford Just to ease your minds then I have this to say about the tier 3 ships. They are only called tier 3 ships that doesn't mean that they will just be better than the other two battleship. In fact tier 2 battleships aren't necessarily better for every situation than tier 1 battleships. In some situations you'd prefer a scorpion over a raven, a dominix over a mega, an arma over an apoc. Typhoon has its own issues which the recent bonus changes should fix. The key thing is to make it different, not better. Its pretty obvious for me that the Caldari will be a railboat. Saying that its a missile race not a turret race is simply not true. Its just like saying Gallente are drone race not a turret race. Caldari use missiles and railguns like Gallente use drones and blasters. Well they can in reality use both railguns and blasters though. As for stats that are on them now then they are hardly final and all speculation about them at this point is just that, speculation. Drones hardly take SP to train for, a bit unfair since you need tons of Skillpoins as caldari now (~6.5 million electronics/~6 million gunnery/~ 5 million missles) would be great if such things could get balanced anytime soon wow, i guess this is the end of the world. a caldari whining about training times to specialize. yeah, i am caldari, too, but i mainly fly minmatar ships. THAT, takes time, not caldari in the end, i think the easiest part is for amarr, then come caldari and gallente, and on a lousy fourth place gets minmatar (like almost always ) Apertotes, the Guybrush Threepwood of New Eve
Aloysius Knight	Posted - 2006.04.28 10:39:00 - [44] Originally by: Tuxford Originally by: Nafri Drones hardly take SP to train for, a bit unfair since you need tons of Skillpoins as caldari now (~6.5 million electronics/~6 million gunnery/~ 5 million missles) would be great if such things could get balanced anytime soon No you still can just train missiles if you want. In fact even if you are caldari you don't need to train gunnery. You can just fly, Kestrel, Caracal, Cerberus, Raven. In fact once the tier 2 and tier 3 bs and the hawk changes come in you can almost always choose between a missile ship and a turret ship. I'll grant you that that if you want to fly all the caldari ships you need both good gunnery and missile skill but nobody is forcing you to do that. oh so minmatar have to?
Nafri	Posted - 2006.04.28 10:43:00 - [45] Originally by: Tuxford Originally by: Nafri Drones hardly take SP to train for, a bit unfair since you need tons of Skillpoins as caldari now (~6.5 million electronics/~6 million gunnery/~ 5 million missles) would be great if such things could get balanced anytime soon No you still can just train missiles if you want. In fact even if you are caldari you don't need to train gunnery. You can just fly, Kestrel, Caracal, Cerberus, Raven. In fact once the tier 2 and tier 3 bs and the hawk changes come in you can almost always choose between a missile ship and a turret ship. I'll grant you that that if you want to fly all the caldari ships you need both good gunnery and missile skill but nobody is forcing you to do that. But all the turret ships also need missleskills . Missles ships are mostly irrelevant for me since I like to stay at at least 100km . I still wonder why you gave the rook a missle damage bonus when its opitmal fighting range is 161km. Would have been way better as gunship like this falcon. Also its unfair to limit some races to only a small part of their ships by making unfair SP needs. You also render such ships like the typhoon into being pointless. Afterall the typhoon will stay a ship with 1 damage bonus, whereas the Dominix gets bonuses to small/medium/large weapons . Summertime - Campingtime!
Bondage Betty	Posted - 2006.04.28 10:44:00 - [46] Originally by: Nafri Originally by: Tuxford Just to ease your minds then I have this to say about the tier 3 ships. They are only called tier 3 ships that doesn't mean that they will just be better than the other two battleship. In fact tier 2 battleships aren't necessarily better for every situation than tier 1 battleships. In some situations you'd prefer a scorpion over a raven, a dominix over a mega, an arma over an apoc. Typhoon has its own issues which the recent bonus changes should fix. The key thing is to make it different, not better. Its pretty obvious for me that the Caldari will be a railboat. Saying that its a missile race not a turret race is simply not true. Its just like saying Gallente are drone race not a turret race. Caldari use missiles and railguns like Gallente use drones and blasters. Well they can in reality use both railguns and blasters though. As for stats that are on them now then they are hardly final and all speculation about them at this point is just that, speculation. Drones hardly take SP to train for, a bit unfair since you need tons of Skillpoins as caldari now (~6.5 million electronics/~6 million gunnery/~ 5 million missles) would be great if such things could get balanced anytime soon Well, if your Minmatar it's even worse, cause you need maxed gunnery, spaceship command, and you have split weapons so you need missiles aswell, and you can either shield or armor tank so you need to have high on those aswell + drones... Minmatar is the most skillheavy race hands down, then Caldari / Gallente and last Amarr.
Nafri	Posted - 2006.04.28 10:45:00 - [47] Originally by: Apertotes Originally by: Nafri Originally by: Tuxford Just to ease your minds then I have this to say about the tier 3 ships. They are only called tier 3 ships that doesn't mean that they will just be better than the other two battleship. In fact tier 2 battleships aren't necessarily better for every situation than tier 1 battleships. In some situations you'd prefer a scorpion over a raven, a dominix over a mega, an arma over an apoc. Typhoon has its own issues which the recent bonus changes should fix. The key thing is to make it different, not better. Its pretty obvious for me that the Caldari will be a railboat. Saying that its a missile race not a turret race is simply not true. Its just like saying Gallente are drone race not a turret race. Caldari use missiles and railguns like Gallente use drones and blasters. Well they can in reality use both railguns and blasters though. As for stats that are on them now then they are hardly final and all speculation about them at this point is just that, speculation. Drones hardly take SP to train for, a bit unfair since you need tons of Skillpoins as caldari now (~6.5 million electronics/~6 million gunnery/~ 5 million missles) would be great if such things could get balanced anytime soon wow, i guess this is the end of the world. a caldari whining about training times to specialize. yeah, i am caldari, too, but i mainly fly minmatar ships. THAT, takes time, not caldari in the end, i think the easiest part is for amarr, then come caldari and gallente, and on a lousy fourth place gets minmatar (like almost always ) Personally I have 5.5 electronics/7.5 gunnery/2.5 missles/10 spaceship command, I can fly caldari and matari at the same lvl and training for caldari as PvP race is as hard as training for matari basicly Summertime - Campingtime!
Nyphur	Posted - 2006.04.28 10:47:00 - [48] Originally by: Nafri Drones hardly take SP to train for, a bit unfair since you need tons of Skillpoins as caldari now (~6.5 million electronics/~6 million gunnery/~ 5 million missles) would be great if such things could get balanced anytime soon I have 4-5million SP in drones. It seems pretty balanced to me. Eve-Tanking.com - For the ultimate tanking spreadsheet and resources.
Fi T'Zeh	Posted - 2006.04.28 10:49:00 - [49] /me gets out the worlds smallest violin for ze whiners .... Real men use blasters
Ithildin	Posted - 2006.04.28 10:55:00 - [50] Originally by: Nafri Drones hardly take SP to train for, a bit unfair since you need tons of Skillpoins as caldari now (~6.5 million electronics/~6 million gunnery/~ 5 million missles) would be great if such things could get balanced anytime soon No, this isn't true. The reason is that the benefits from training up drones doesn't show because: 1. Drones are cumbersome to use and don't deal immidiate damage 2. Show info doesn't show your skill effects 3. You don't recieve damage notification from drones Also, and this is important, there are too many ships OTHER than the drone ships that have drones and as such there are too many dabblers. Drones aren't a dedicated weapon system the way turrets, EWar, and missiles are. If drones worked exactly the same as now, but instead were fitted in high slots, and if they couldn't be destroyed (i.e. when destroyed or otherwise lost you'd just have to launch a new one), you'd see people thinking of drone skills completely differently. I've got very low drone skills at 2 million. I know I'm lagging behind my alliance mates cause I can't use T2 drones etc, but I don't notice it cause I can't see what sort of damage my drones do. New sig coming soonÖ Drone musing (MC-boards)
Ebedar	Posted - 2006.04.28 10:56:00 - [51] I'd rather see the game balanced ahead of new content being released, but I suspect I don't reflect the majority of the player base in that respect. IMO, until the devs can hand-on-heart say that they have a specific, unique and necessary role for each of the new ships to play, they shouldn't even consider releasing Tier 3 BS. But that won't appease the shiny toy brigade. Intel for sale The Dominix: A Documentary
Apertotes	Posted - 2006.04.28 11:00:00 - [52] Edited by: Apertotes on 28/04/2006 11:04:26 Originally by: Nafri Personally I have 5.5 electronics/7.5 gunnery/2.5 missles/10 spaceship command, I can fly caldari and matari at the same lvl and training for caldari as PvP race is as hard as training for matari basicly i disagree. like tux said, you can train only missiles or only rails, and then fly half of the caldari ships. but to fly almost any minmatar ship you need projectiles, missiles and drones. it is not that you can focuss only on projectiles and fly perfectly half of their ships. almost every ship needs at least good drones skills too. not only that, some minie ships armor tank, some shield tank. i am training both minie and caldari ships also, and it has been much worse to be proficient with minie ships than with caldari ships (only missile boats, i decided to leave out railgun boats). in fact, i think that a very good minie pilot would make a very good caldari pilot (missile boats, again), but a very good caldari pilot would make a mediocre minie pilot. Apertotes, the Guybrush Threepwood of New Eve
Jim McGregor	Posted - 2006.04.28 11:03:00 - [53] Edited by: Jim McGregor on 28/04/2006 11:03:25 Originally by: Apertotes in fact, i think that a very good minie pilot would make a very good caldari pilot (missile boats, again), but a very good caldari pilot would make a mediocre minie pilot. Yep, and this is why its good for new players to start with Caldari and then move on to other races ships if they want to. --- pwned
Niques Leutre	Posted - 2006.04.28 11:10:00 - [54] What makes you think Tier 3 Battleships will kill off others? People won't go, 'Oooh, slightly more powergrid' and toss others aside. Just look at the Caldari rail ships. The Moa and Merlin have superior resists, HP, powergrid, CPU, scanners, etc, yet they are used FAR less often than missile boats. The only exception is the Ferox, which I'm positive will change with the new missile battlecruiser... In any case, based on the current pattern I seriously doubt Ravens are going to die off any time soon. Same goes for any other races. P.S. -- Those of us who don't missile ***** aren't idiots. ___________________________________ The fiercer the foe, the sweeter the salvage. The fatter the wallet, the bigger the smile.
charix	Posted - 2006.04.28 11:13:00 - [55] signed
MrRookie	Posted - 2006.04.28 11:20:00 - [56] Originally by: Nyphur Originally by: Nafri Drones hardly take SP to train for, a bit unfair since you need tons of Skillpoins as caldari now (~6.5 million electronics/~6 million gunnery/~ 5 million missles) would be great if such things could get balanced anytime soon I have 4-5million SP in drones. It seems pretty balanced to me. Actualy lets look at the Amarr... Drones: 0 SP Missiles: 0 SP EW: 0 SP Gunnery: 6 mill SP And weeee there you go, maxed out Ofcourse any skillpoints in the other trees are always usefull and welcome but I still think Amarr is the only race which effectivly can fly nearly all their ships with just gunnery skills _____________________________________________ \o/ I got a siggy... WTB 3x Medium Modulated Pulse Energy Beams http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=139877
Renox	Posted - 2006.04.28 11:28:00 - [57] Originally by: Nafri Originally by: Tuxford Just to ease your minds then I have this to say about the tier 3 ships. They are only called tier 3 ships that doesn't mean that they will just be better than the other two battleship. In fact tier 2 battleships aren't necessarily better for every situation than tier 1 battleships. In some situations you'd prefer a scorpion over a raven, a dominix over a mega, an arma over an apoc. Typhoon has its own issues which the recent bonus changes should fix. The key thing is to make it different, not better. Its pretty obvious for me that the Caldari will be a railboat. Saying that its a missile race not a turret race is simply not true. Its just like saying Gallente are drone race not a turret race. Caldari use missiles and railguns like Gallente use drones and blasters. Well they can in reality use both railguns and blasters though. As for stats that are on them now then they are hardly final and all speculation about them at this point is just that, speculation. Drones hardly take SP to train for, a bit unfair since you need tons of Skillpoins as caldari now (~6.5 million electronics/~6 million gunnery/~ 5 million missles) would be great if such things could get balanced anytime soon I have little more then 4 mil in drones and still have lots to train so I think they come up quite close in sp and what is more, they are by far the most difficult/cumbersome weapon to use due to their faulty AI and the fact that they can easily be left behind/shot. TheJay > grrr slow stupid garlic eating surrender monkeys
Alliaanna Dalaii	Posted - 2006.04.28 11:37:00 - [58] Originally by: MrRookie Originally by: Nyphur Originally by: Nafri Drones hardly take SP to train for, a bit unfair since you need tons of Skillpoins as caldari now (~6.5 million electronics/~6 million gunnery/~ 5 million missles) would be great if such things could get balanced anytime soon I have 4-5million SP in drones. It seems pretty balanced to me. Actualy lets look at the Amarr... Drones: 0 SP Missiles: 0 SP EW: 0 SP Gunnery: 6 mill SP And weeee there you go, maxed out Ofcourse any skillpoints in the other trees are always usefull and welcome but I still think Amarr is the only race which effectivly can fly nearly all their ships with just gunnery skills How is that maxed out exactly ? Ive got 9.1 in Amarr gunnery and am no where near done to the level I want them Alliaanna cough but yeah I have like under a 2mill in missiles/ew/drones. Ew is kinda a null point, with an average of 3 midslots doesn't leave much room to play. But can now fly Force recon ships so will be getting that up Official Follower of =-= Royal Hiigaran Navy =-=
Shimpu	Posted - 2006.04.28 11:40:00 - [59] Edited by: Shimpu on 28/04/2006 11:42:08 @ OP: Oh noes, I'm so afraid of any changes Boo-hoo Don't ruin this game! After X months I understood how to do stuff and now you change things cry P.S.: Things have to change every once in a while to stay interesting
Invisible Touch	Posted - 2006.04.28 11:41:00 - [60] Originally by: Tuxford Originally by: Nafri Drones hardly take SP to train for, a bit unfair since you need tons of Skillpoins as caldari now (~6.5 million electronics/~6 million gunnery/~ 5 million missles) would be great if such things could get balanced anytime soon No you still can just train missiles if you want. In fact even if you are caldari you don't need to train gunnery. You can just fly, Kestrel, Caracal, Cerberus, Raven. In fact once the tier 2 and tier 3 bs and the hawk changes come in you can almost always choose between a missile ship and a turret ship. I'll grant you that that if you want to fly all the caldari ships you need both good gunnery and missile skill but nobody is forcing you to do that. Sorry Tux you are wrong. There are huge discrepancies skillwise between race options. Caldari and Minmater being the ones with a greater range of options, but lacking focus. Since you are the math wiz, please compare a 30mil sp gallente char to a similar sp-wise caldari character, both flying their race carriers and dreads. And please tell us your results... There is no black and white, good vs evil in Eve. Only shades of grey all coloured by self-interest.
Grainsalt	Posted - 2006.04.28 11:50:00 - [61] Originally by: Tuxford Originally by: Nafri Drones hardly take SP to train for, a bit unfair since you need tons of Skillpoins as caldari now (~6.5 million electronics/~6 million gunnery/~ 5 million missles) would be great if such things could get balanced anytime soon No you still can just train missiles if you want. In fact even if you are caldari you don't need to train gunnery. You can just fly, Kestrel, Caracal, Cerberus, Raven. In fact once the tier 2 and tier 3 bs and the hawk changes come in you can almost always choose between a missile ship and a turret ship. I'll grant you that that if you want to fly all the caldari ships you need both good gunnery and missile skill but nobody is forcing you to do that. Errrr... rewind a bit... what tier 2 changes would these be? BabyBlue:- "I propose CCP make USB powered genital electrodes compulsory for pod pilots, activated when hull < 5%. "
Ithildin	Posted - 2006.04.28 11:58:00 - [62] Originally by: Invisible Touch Sorry Tux you are wrong. There are huge discrepancies skillwise between race options. Caldari and Minmater being the ones with a greater range of options, but lacking focus. Since you are the math wiz, please compare a 30mil sp gallente char to a similar sp-wise caldari character, both flying their race carriers and dreads. And please tell us your results... You, too, are wrong in places. That Minmatar lack focus on certain ships I will not dispute, but it is an exagregation to claim you need high missile skills to fly ships like Vagabond, Tempest, or even 7(5/2) Rupture. Caldari on the other hand is very focused. Their fleet design isn't streamlined around one concept, granted, but their individual ships are very focused. You've got EWar boats (who couldn't do damage even if they wanted to) and you've got missile boats, and then there's the railgun series. Neither of these three basic designs tend to borrow very much from the other designs, and are bonus-and-layout wise more focused than the Dominix (Drones AND turrets, where the Caldari ships are either-or). (yes, I know the Dominix is a bad example because it does admirable without a single turret) Your claim to fame is that Caldari espcially and Minmatar occasionally requires a lot more training to be able to fly the entire armada than does Gallente or, even more so, Amarr. New sig coming soonÖ Drone musing (MC-boards)
Ithildin	Posted - 2006.04.28 12:00:00 - [63] Originally by: Grainsalt Originally by: Tuxford Originally by: Nafri Drones hardly take SP to train for, a bit unfair since you need tons of Skillpoins as caldari now (~6.5 million electronics/~6 million gunnery/~ 5 million missles) would be great if such things could get balanced anytime soon No you still can just train missiles if you want. In fact even if you are caldari you don't need to train gunnery. You can just fly, Kestrel, Caracal, Cerberus, Raven. In fact once the tier 2 and tier 3 bs and the hawk changes come in you can almost always choose between a missile ship and a turret ship. I'll grant you that that if you want to fly all the caldari ships you need both good gunnery and missile skill but nobody is forcing you to do that. Errrr... rewind a bit... what tier 2 changes would these be? Tier 2 BATTLECRUISER. Caldari's getting a missile BC. Gallente's getting a drone BC. And I think Amarr and Minmatar both are getting a slightly-more-turrety BC. New sig coming soonÖ Drone musing (MC-boards)
Nafri	Posted - 2006.04.28 12:04:00 - [64] ha, this thread is mine now Summertime - Campingtime!
Dri Kulsane	Posted - 2006.04.28 12:05:00 - [65] Originally by: MrRookie Originally by: Nyphur Originally by: Nafri Drones hardly take SP to train for, a bit unfair since you need tons of Skillpoins as caldari now (~6.5 million electronics/~6 million gunnery/~ 5 million missles) would be great if such things could get balanced anytime soon I have 4-5million SP in drones. It seems pretty balanced to me. Actualy lets look at the Amarr... Drones: 0 SP Missiles: 0 SP EW: 0 SP Gunnery: 6 mill SP And weeee there you go, maxed out Ofcourse any skillpoints in the other trees are always usefull and welcome but I still think Amarr is the only race which effectivly can fly nearly all their ships with just gunnery skills You are so wrong, it's actually funny To fly amarr ships means you must have plenty of support skills because of it's lack of ew abilities. Drones are a must in all cases!!! Anyway, back on topic...I think our author of the thread will get the idea soon enough, Tier 3 Battleships are just something to expand the abilities further that what is current present on the playing field. Consider Tier's in cruisers, there is in most cases a big physical difference, yet all but a few have a role to play ingame.
Grainsalt	Posted - 2006.04.28 12:09:00 - [66] Originally by: Ithildin Originally by: Grainsalt Originally by: Tuxford Originally by: Nafri Drones hardly take SP to train for, a bit unfair since you need tons of Skillpoins as caldari now (~6.5 million electronics/~6 million gunnery/~ 5 million missles) would be great if such things could get balanced anytime soon No you still can just train missiles if you want. In fact even if you are caldari you don't need to train gunnery. You can just fly, Kestrel, Caracal, Cerberus, Raven. In fact once the tier 2 and tier 3 bs and the hawk changes come in you can almost always choose between a missile ship and a turret ship. I'll grant you that that if you want to fly all the caldari ships you need both good gunnery and missile skill but nobody is forcing you to do that. Errrr... rewind a bit... what tier 2 changes would these be? Tier 2 BATTLECRUISER. Caldari's getting a missile BC. Gallente's getting a drone BC. And I think Amarr and Minmatar both are getting a slightly-more-turrety BC. Thank god for that... I thought I would have to learn a new skill like "advanced advanced missile naviagtion prediction damage" to level V to use my raven again Tux.. You did mean Tier II BC's right? BabyBlue:- "I propose CCP make USB powered genital electrodes compulsory for pod pilots, activated when hull < 5%. "
James Lyrus	Posted - 2006.04.28 12:13:00 - [67] Originally by: Niques Leutre What makes you think Tier 3 Battleships will kill off others? People won't go, 'Oooh, slightly more powergrid' and toss others aside. Just look at the Caldari rail ships. The Moa and Merlin have superior resists, HP, powergrid, CPU, scanners, etc, yet they are used FAR less often than missile boats. The only exception is the Ferox, which I'm positive will change with the new missile battlecruiser... In any case, based on the current pattern I seriously doubt Ravens are going to die off any time soon. Same goes for any other races. P.S. -- Those of us who don't missile *** aren't idiots. Actually, I went missle ***, primarily because there wasn't really a railgun battleship. Kestrel, Caracal, Ferox, Raven is a good career progression. (OK, so you miss out on destroyers and assault frigates, but ...) Where Merlin, Moa, Ferox, ... OK so you get to use the harpy, and a good ship it is, IMO the lack of a 'rail battleship' meant I didn't bother training gunnery (much). -- We are recruiting We sell carriers.
Kelador Stormwolf	Posted - 2006.04.28 12:26:00 - [68] Edited by: Kelador Stormwolf on 28/04/2006 12:35:27 Originally by: Ethan Tomlinson <snip> this game doesn't need a caldari rail sniper boat as much as all the idiots would love one. <snip> Well this Caldari idiot doesn't much care for spamming missiles, I prefer using rail guns, even on the Ferox which although designed as a rail platform seems to function much more effectively as a passive tank missile boat. I'm really looking forward to seeing an option other than the Raven in the 'next bigger ship' category (yes I know there's always the Scorp too), and it's not about sniping from huge distances either... I'd rather see a ship that can tank really well (if there is such a thing in blobwars) than one capable of hitting from 300km out, but either way, the important thing is diversity / options, without having to retrain a whole new racial skill tree. Incidentally it doesn't take that much of an error of judgement to get locked down at 300km - all it takes is a well placed cov ops ship and a 'warp to 15km' "I can picture in my mind a world without war, a world without hate. And I can picture us attacking that world, because they'd never expect it."
The Wizz117	Posted - 2006.04.28 12:26:00 - [69] stupid railgun boat i want it to be a shield tanking boat! thats thew way its suposed to be like the cruiser a bonus to shield stuf the tier 3 caldari battle ship is not for caldari becouse if it has the same slot balancing like the moa u can armour tank it fit a full rack of EW and railguns. it will totaly pwn for the gallante and amarr will be able to armor tank it and fit EW. now not only half of eve wich are caldari pilots will fly caldari ships but also the other races. give it like a BIG shield and very few armour hitpoints and a fat shield bonus so that u have to shield tank it. and make the slots like 6 railguns 4 missile launchers plz thx
MrRookie	Posted - 2006.04.28 13:33:00 - [70] Originally by: Dri Kulsane Originally by: MrRookie Originally by: Nyphur Originally by: Nafri Drones hardly take SP to train for, a bit unfair since you need tons of Skillpoins as caldari now (~6.5 million electronics/~6 million gunnery/~ 5 million missles) would be great if such things could get balanced anytime soon I have 4-5million SP in drones. It seems pretty balanced to me. Actualy lets look at the Amarr... Drones: 0 SP Missiles: 0 SP EW: 0 SP Gunnery: 6 mill SP And weeee there you go, maxed out Ofcourse any skillpoints in the other trees are always usefull and welcome but I still think Amarr is the only race which effectivly can fly nearly all their ships with just gunnery skills You are so wrong, it's actually funny To fly amarr ships means you must have plenty of support skills because of it's lack of ew abilities. Drones are a must in all cases!!! Anyway, back on topic...I think our author of the thread will get the idea soon enough, Tier 3 Battleships are just something to expand the abilities further that what is current present on the playing field. Consider Tier's in cruisers, there is in most cases a big physical difference, yet all but a few have a role to play ingame. Yea yea poor you, boy am I glad Caldari don't have to train drone skills and other. we have midslots after all... _____________________________________________ \o/ I got a siggy... WTB 3x Medium Modulated Pulse Energy Beams http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=139877
sarabando	Posted - 2006.04.28 13:35:00 - [71] every onw says how caldari are all missles but if you look at the starting skills you character starts with gunnery 1 and small rail 1 but you can then add missles currently there is no rail bs for us and if you look at naturla progresion of weapons in RL people always make somthing bigger so stop cry that you solo pwn mobile of a raven might not cut it soon Originally by: Phaese It could also be possible that, with all the other technologies they have in EVE, they might've also made some technological breakthroughs in laser technology Or you mom
The Wizz117	Posted - 2006.04.28 13:36:00 - [72] Originally by: sarabando every onw says how caldari are all missles but if you look at the starting skills you character starts with gunnery 1 and small rail 1 but you can then add missles currently there is no rail bs for us and if you look at naturla progresion of weapons in RL people always make somthing bigger so stop cry that you solo pwn mobile of a raven might not cut it soon yes but then u get this kestrel thing with missile launchers and then u want nothing else
Nafri	Posted - 2006.04.28 13:48:00 - [73] Originally by: sarabando every onw says how caldari are all missles but if you look at the starting skills you character starts with gunnery 1 and small rail 1 but you can then add missles currently there is no rail bs for us and if you look at naturla progresion of weapons in RL people always make somthing bigger so stop cry that you solo pwn mobile of a raven might not cut it soon scorp was once a rail BS Summertime - Campingtime!
Joerd Toastius	Posted - 2006.04.28 14:33:00 - [74] Originally by: Grainsalt Originally by: Tuxford Originally by: Nafri Drones hardly take SP to train for, a bit unfair since you need tons of Skillpoins as caldari now (~6.5 million electronics/~6 million gunnery/~ 5 million missles) would be great if such things could get balanced anytime soon No you still can just train missiles if you want. In fact even if you are caldari you don't need to train gunnery. You can just fly, Kestrel, Caracal, Cerberus, Raven. In fact once the tier 2 and tier 3 bs and the hawk changes come in you can almost always choose between a missile ship and a turret ship. I'll grant you that that if you want to fly all the caldari ships you need both good gunnery and missile skill but nobody is forcing you to do that. Errrr... rewind a bit... what tier 2 changes would these be? Good spot...
Ishmael Hansen	Posted - 2006.04.28 14:34:00 - [75] I propose ccp gives -10 sec status for 1 week at the mains of the OMG SKY IS FALLING whinners, and don't mistake that with UNNERF THE NIGHTHAWK PLZ, AND FIX R&D ASAP whinners such as myself :P And please balance ccp, atm TomB has a amarr fetish and that's it, we need some caldari lovers up there, we need some lovin'
Jet Collins	Posted - 2006.04.28 14:45:00 - [76] Ohhh Boy !!!! I can't pass up this thread but where to begin . First off new BS Skins tier 3 or not are so welcome to this game and not going to nerf the other ships. Yes at first you will probably see a crap load of them flyig around because they are the newest and greatest thing. But they will find thier role and people will fly the BS that suites them. As for them being over powered I'm sure CCP can manage making them a balanced ship, and from what I have heard if anything the only thing these ships may do better then thier counter parts is tank. I persoanlly havn't heard much in the favor or more dps. But that was a while back and things change. Now for people whinning about a rail boad Cal ship which would requirer them to train more skills... me a river. But persoanlly I wouldn't want them to have more than 6 turret hard points. Actaully 5 but I don't want people to hate me to much. The only way I would except it is if the minmatar get atleast 7 turret hard points Now lets look at a skill intensive ship. The poor Phoon. Possible setups. Siege and Autos, Arti and Cruse Auto's and Nos Amorr or shield(yes this can shield tank quite well) A full drone bay. Now these are just some basic setups that can be done with the phoon. So if you want to take full advantage of the phoon you need good gunnary skill, good missile skill, good Armor skill, good shield skill, good drone skill, and even good EW skill for Nos and some other stuff. And I will stand by that everything skill group needs to be trained well to make the phoon just a desent ship. At the very least I guess you could just train Armor, drones, (Missles or gunnary), or(Gunnary or nos), or missels or Nos). BUt thier are cases when the resitances for shield would make this ship a much better shield tanker, besides Minmatar are favoring sheild tanking on many ships anway. So to compair the raven, Gunnary ya sure why not, missles yes, shield yes, Armor ahh ok but not like the phoon, Em yes(probably more so than the Phoon)But Drones NO only have half the size so training heavy drones not the best idea t2 mediums is your best bet and t2 heaveies tank alot more time(maybe I'm wrong here but I think 5 mids are better than 3 heavy espaically when you lose one you still have more mids. As Tux said you can go through the racial ships for the Cal race and stick to gunnary or Missles. On Minmatar ships we can try to go gunnary but we have so many ships with launcher hard points we really need to train missles as well. Same goes for shield and Amor. *Jet wishes my race had a path which only required a couple skill groups. Hey but now I guess no one can easly perdict what my setup will be. Anyway I welcome with open arms new BS's.
Ethan Tomlinson	Posted - 2006.04.28 15:33:00 - [77] I have been playing quite a while and i would say i have a pretty good understanding of game mechanics and what not...still get some ship bonus's wrong when talkin bout em on the forums every now and then so sue me... I understand the devs wont let them be better than current bs's now... this doesn't change the fact that at first they will most likely screw 1 or 2 up and they will be the pwnzr and everybody will have to fly those 2 ships because they will be unbalanced... i think that this will happen because it did when bs's were first entered into the game (scorp?) yes i know if this kind of a travesty happens then it will most likely be fixed after a few months of whining but i would rather not see this happen i dont mean to rain on everyones parade but i dont think they are necessary...
danneh	Posted - 2006.04.28 15:42:00 - [78] Edited by: danneh on 28/04/2006 15:41:59 Originally by: MrRookie rabble,rabble, wait more rabble You are clueless Contraband Inc
MrRookie	Posted - 2006.04.28 15:49:00 - [79] Originally by: danneh Edited by: danneh on 28/04/2006 15:41:59 Originally by: MrRookie rabble,rabble, wait more rabble You are clueless why thank you _____________________________________________ \o/ I got a siggy... WTB 3x Medium Modulated Pulse Energy Beams http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=139877
Deja Thoris	Posted - 2006.04.28 15:57:00 - [80] Originally by: MrRookie Originally by: danneh Edited by: danneh on 28/04/2006 15:41:59 Originally by: MrRookie rabble,rabble, wait more rabble You are clueless why thank you What Danneh said.
Kaeten	Posted - 2006.04.28 15:57:00 - [81] Edited by: Kaeten on 28/04/2006 15:56:46 Originally by: MrRookie Originally by: danneh Edited by: danneh on 28/04/2006 15:41:59 Originally by: MrRookie rabble,rabble, wait more rabble You are clueless why thank you don't mind danneh, his body is in a very weird status atm with all the hormones etc.
xVx Scarecrow	Posted - 2006.04.28 15:59:00 - [82] Wells looks like ethan knows something we all dont. The fact of the matter is No1 knows what the new tear 3 bs are going to be like They probably havent even made it off the drawing board yet all ur clames and whinings is all on rumers u have prob read on the forums or in game so i dont see why ur on the forums already preaching to ccp like u know everything But as already been stated the tear 2 bs dont make the tear1 usless so why would the tear 3 make anything usless Plus i dont think ccp would waste there time and money making content of cheap rip offs of already exsitant content so the new tear 3 BS probably will be compleatly new within each race ]
danneh	Posted - 2006.04.28 16:02:00 - [83] Originally by: Kaeten some racist comment Hi. Contraband Inc
keepiru	Posted - 2006.04.28 16:03:00 - [84] Your post makes my eyes bleed. Better living through punctuation. ---------------- Official ISD cake & bree reserve thief. Barricades a speciality! Last stands on request.
MrRookie	Posted - 2006.04.28 16:36:00 - [85] Originally by: Deja Thoris Originally by: MrRookie Originally by: danneh Edited by: danneh on 28/04/2006 15:41:59 Originally by: MrRookie rabble,rabble, wait more rabble bla bla bla why thank you bla bla bla /rables _____________________________________________ \o/ I got a siggy... WTB 3x Medium Modulated Pulse Energy Beams http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=139877
Joshua Foiritain	Posted - 2006.04.28 16:46:00 - [86] Originally by: Nafri Drones hardly take SP to train for, a bit unfair since you need tons of Skillpoins as caldari now (~6.5 million electronics/~6 million gunnery/~ 5 million missles) would be great if such things could get balanced anytime soon Gallente: (~6 million electronics&engineering/~6 million gunnery/~ 5 million drones) End result: Still flying a mega that gets nuked at close range by a well set up raven ------- [Coreli Corporation Mainframe]
Octavio Santillian	Posted - 2006.04.28 16:50:00 - [87] Originally by: Tuxford Just to ease your minds then I have this to say about the tier 3 ships. They are only called tier 3 ships that doesn't mean that they will just be better than the other two battleship. In fact tier 2 battleships aren't necessarily better for every situation than tier 1 battleships. In some situations you'd prefer a scorpion over a raven, a dominix over a mega, an arma over an apoc. Typhoon has its own issues which the recent bonus changes should fix. The key thing is to make it different, not better. Its pretty obvious for me that the Caldari will be a railboat. Saying that its a missile race not a turret race is simply not true. Its just like saying Gallente are drone race not a turret race. Caldari use missiles and railguns like Gallente use drones and blasters. Well they can in reality use both railguns and blasters though. As for stats that are on them now then they are hardly final and all speculation about them at this point is just that, speculation. Tux, first off, thanks for the input. It's always good when the Devs give us some perspective. The reason there is so much wild speculation, however, is because the Devs donÆt give their input often enough. I know you all are busy, so IÆm not trying to *** here, but I think a few more post like this one Linkage will do a lot to putting some order on the chaos. Ok, there are a lot of opinions out there expressing a lot of different points on this subject. My points are as follows: 1) Balance > new content. I feel the game is pretty well balanced now, but there are a lot of things that need tweaking (blasters, Typhoon, AFs, Ewar, NOS, etc.). It would be better to concentrate on these issues before entering more into the mix making things even harder to balance. 2) I donÆt want to see a homogenizing of the races. I donÆt want to see a Caldary Mega, a Minmatar Scorpion (Well sure I do, but for the wrong reasons), an Amarr Domi. I donÆt mind the idea of new ships, as long as they aren't one races version of another races ship. I think one of the absolute best examples of game balance every created was Starcraft. You had three distinctly different races with absolutely different styles and the game became amazingly well balanced without the need to give one race what the other one had. All in all, IÆll trust you and the other Devs, youÆve done very well so far. Just take your time, focus on what needs to be done before what would be cool if done, and donÆt give in to all the ôI want thisö and ôOMFG, nerf that.ö ôWeÆre not doing for ISK...........WeÆre doing it for a **load of ISK!ö
Copenhagen	Posted - 2006.04.28 17:28:00 - [88] I want a Minmatar BS that's good in the medium range battles (30-60K). You would have to either give it a super autocannon bonus to get to that range (without living in falloff all the time and using the crappiest ammo) or a big ROF bonus for arty's. Minmatar dont have the tanking of the others unless they are setup for short range with autocannons atm (0-30K). Once the arty's are attached we automatically go over 100K and are in full gank mode. I can always undock the Tempest for another snorefest gate camp if needed.
Mr Hawk	Posted - 2006.04.28 17:30:00 - [89] hey hey Tier 3 Battleships may or may not be a good thing Personally i dont care I love My Tempest and will probably continue to use 6x 14s 2x cruise T3 Minnie is looking to be 8x turret :/ However what i would want is . . . . . . TECH II Battleship :) gimmie gimme gimme.. that would be a ship that PwnZorZ
DigitalCommunist	Posted - 2006.04.28 17:48:00 - [90] Originally by: Nafri Drones hardly take SP to train for, a bit unfair since you need tons of Skillpoins as caldari now (~6.5 million electronics/~6 million gunnery/~ 5 million missles) would be great if such things could get balanced anytime soon I'm struggling to understand just how the hell you come to that conclusion, because the only way I see it is, you're making up stuff.. or obtaining sagely information from another dimension through the aid of heavy narcotics. As Tuxford pointed out you have a missile ship for virtually every class of ship as Caldari. So why exactly would you need 6mil gunnery? Or 6.5mil electronics, seeing as how you can't get that much without training ECM skills. And by the way, not even touching on Fighters + Advanced Drone Interfacing skills, its roughly 6mil SP in drones to get all the "basic" skills to 5 and all the specialization/specific ones to 4. I know because thats how much I have. You have some pretty big nerve complaining that things are unbalanced because of how much skillpoints are needed. As I see it, EVE went a year and a half where 400k in missiles was all you needed to be useful with a Raven. As a result, almost anyone with a character over two years old has at least that much trained. An amount which is absolutely useless now. Yet, despite the huge number of new skills now, and potential to train up to 17mil in missiles, it still only takes less than 5 to kick the living crap out of someone with 10mil+ gunnery. Please.. lay off the Crash? Purchasing Complex Fullerene Shards, contact me ingame.
Jet Collins	Posted - 2006.04.28 18:26:00 - [91] Octavio Santillian makes a good point in his post. CCP this is what you should do hehe. When you introduce the 4 new BS's you should also introduce 4 new amazing mods.. I have no idea what they would be but anyway... Amazing mods. And only the respective faction can use that new Amazing mod. IE with the development of the new BS each races comes up with a new tactic which will make the BS's specailized toward that new mod/new tactic, that only that BS/race can use. I don't know just an idea .
Istvaan Shogaatsu	Posted - 2006.04.28 18:39:00 - [92] You may just get your wish, Jet, in one form or another.
Twilight Moon	Posted - 2006.04.28 18:43:00 - [93] I'm a simple lass....I just want more ships. :D
Kaylana Syi	Posted - 2006.04.29 20:33:00 - [94] Originally by: Apertotes Edited by: Apertotes on 28/04/2006 11:04:26 Originally by: Nafri Personally I have 5.5 electronics/7.5 gunnery/2.5 missles/10 spaceship command, I can fly caldari and matari at the same lvl and training for caldari as PvP race is as hard as training for matari basicly i disagree. like tux said, you can train only missiles or only rails, and then fly half of the caldari ships. but to fly almost any minmatar ship you need projectiles, missiles and drones. it is not that you can focuss only on projectiles and fly perfectly half of their ships. almost every ship needs at least good drones skills too. not only that, some minie ships armor tank, some shield tank. i am training both minie and caldari ships also, and it has been much worse to be proficient with minie ships than with caldari ships (only missile boats, i decided to leave out railgun boats). in fact, i think that a very good minie pilot would make a very good caldari pilot (missile boats, again), but a very good caldari pilot would make a mediocre minie pilot. I think you haven't accounted for the use of missiles AND Nos -OR- Autocannons AND Nos which really take a lot of the fluff out of the "minmatar need uber skills in pvp." Infact, Minmatar BS 1, Drones 5, Drones Interfacing 3, Heavy Drones 3, Energy Emmission Systems 3, Missile OP 4, Heavy Missile 3, Torpedos 3 are all that are required for a typhoon to have a substantial offensive system. It may not stand out next to a 2+ year veteran in a tempest with Tech 2 650s but for a low SP Matari it can chew up ships. You can even specialize this setup and bypass the cookie cutter Matari training paths. What is more is that the Typhoon can do this at lvl 1 BS and the tempest can do it at lvl 2 with tech 2 medium drones. Armor tanking can be the system of choice which can still be used on a PvP Cyclone which can even gain respectable setups from this peticular training path. So it really makes saying Minmatar have a tough training path really subjective. I don't think it is if you know what you want out of the character. Obviosly it is a one trick pony but it is an option nonetheless. Originally by: "Oveur" I don't react to threats any better than you do
Kaylana Syi	Posted - 2006.04.29 21:00:00 - [95] Edited by: Kaylana Syi on 29/04/2006 21:02:10 Originally by: DigitalCommunist As I see it, EVE went a year and a half where 400k in missiles was all you needed to be useful with a Raven. As a result, almost anyone with a character over two years old has at least that much trained. You're wrong. Missiles? Haven't trained missiles since 2003 Originally by: "Oveur" I don't react to threats any better than you do
Ithildin	Posted - 2006.04.29 21:04:00 - [96] Originally by: Kaylana Syi <..>You're wrong. Missiles? Haven't trained missiles since 2003 I'm actually old enough to have had the opportunity to be required even less... but I never trained torpedoes when I had the chance (before they started requiring level 3 std and heavy missile skill) New sig coming soonÖ Drone musing (MC-boards)
Kaylana Syi	Posted - 2006.04.29 21:17:00 - [97] Originally by: Ithildin Originally by: Kaylana Syi <..>You're wrong. Missiles? Haven't trained missiles since 2003 I'm actually old enough to have had the opportunity to be required even less... but I never trained torpedoes when I had the chance (before they started requiring level 3 std and heavy missile skill) Notice Kaylon doesn't have 3 in either std or heavy. Missile op 5 was just for cruise missiles on frigates back when that was really fun. Originally by: "Oveur" I don't react to threats any better than you do
j0sephine	Posted - 2006.04.29 22:35:00 - [98] "You may just get your wish, Jet, in one form or another." Well, if the shape of Caldari battleship is any hint, at least one of these new ships comes with the "nuke it from orbit" button... :s~
Joerd Toastius	Posted - 2006.04.29 23:32:00 - [99] TBH, I think the role that most needs filling right now is mid-range ship-of-the-line, for making short work of enemy BS and providing a non-capital counter to dreads in sufficient numbers. Ideally, you'd set them so their primary role had them sitting in the 20-60km range bracket (I'd say 40-60 if it wasn't for the Gallente one being probably blaster-driven) and beating the crap out of hostile fleets by sheer weight of firepower. Combined with good interdictor use a decent group of such ships should be able to swing a battle. What I'm thinking of is basically these ships being the mailed fist of the Empire navies, ships around which battlefleets are constructed, giving the fleet its primary punch while other ships provide tactical options for the Admirals. It'd be nice for them to have good range, but I think that'd probably make them overpowered TBH. I'm prepared to be convinced that they should be hard-hitting snipers though, if there's a decent case to be made for it.
Sarmaul	Posted - 2006.04.29 23:37:00 - [100] http://www.asgeirjon.com/gallery/displayimage.php?album=5&pos=2 it looks like a giant bellicose. if it gets a target painting bonus I'm quitting eve (again)... ______________________________________________________ Account Reactivated
Blind Man	Posted - 2006.04.29 23:53:00 - [101] Originally by: Sarmaul http://www.asgeirjon.com/gallery/displayimage.php?album=5&pos=2 it looks like a giant bellicose. if it gets a target painting bonus I'm quitting eve (again)... if it gets a target painting bonus i dont know what i will do Passari will never be safe again
Manion Taleroth	Posted - 2006.04.30 00:15:00 - [102] Originally by: Blind Man Originally by: Sarmaul http://www.asgeirjon.com/gallery/displayimage.php?album=5&pos=2 it looks like a giant bellicose. if it gets a target painting bonus I'm quitting eve (again)... if it gets a target painting bonus i dont know what i will do Don't worry, you two. They wouldn't make a Tier 3 an EW platform.
Gierling	Posted - 2006.04.30 03:40:00 - [103] Frankly I think the most likely options are A caldari with a 6/4 turret missile combo and the optimal bonus, A Gallente with a falloff bonus, MWD bonus and 8 turrets, An Amarr ship with a 6-6-8 config with a ROF bonus, and a Minmater ship with an ROF and a tanking bonus of some kind with 7 turrets. PRoposal to fix blobbing and make Charisma useful.
Cruz	Posted - 2006.04.30 05:15:00 - [104] Originally by: Kel Shek Amarr: uhh, no, the Apoc isn't a drone boat, and if you think being able to fit a flight of heavy drones makes it count... uhh. no. I think the concept art we've seen LOOKS like a drone ship, and would be nifty for it to be one. it'd hurry up my training of amarr BS by alot, (training Gallente BS 4 right now... can't fly any other BS's) Youve been playing EVE for over 2 years and you are just now training gallente BS4???? .................
Kaylana Syi	Posted - 2006.04.30 05:20:00 - [105] Originally by: Sarmaul http://www.asgeirjon.com/gallery/displayimage.php?album=5&pos=2 it looks like a giant bellicose. if it gets a target painting bonus I'm quitting eve (again)... And then you will come back again... like everyone else ( I quit 2 times and came back 2 times. ) I don't think a TP bonus would be bad but it would have to be good enough to be borderline uber for me to be satisfied with it. Originally by: "Oveur" I don't react to threats any better than you do
Sarmaul	Posted - 2006.04.30 11:44:00 - [106] Originally by: Kaylana Syi Originally by: Sarmaul http://www.asgeirjon.com/gallery/displayimage.php?album=5&pos=2 it looks like a giant bellicose. if it gets a target painting bonus I'm quitting eve (again)... And then you will come back again... like everyone else ( I quit 2 times and came back 2 times. ) I don't think a TP bonus would be bad but it would have to be good enough to be borderline uber for me to be satisfied with it. of course, if minmatar were given a proper form of electronic warfare (something that increases the signature resolution of the targets guns would match minny's combat style of evading damage through having a smaller sig radius) I wouldn't mind. making a ship's sig radius bigger will not save your life. making the target's guns sig resolution bigger so he misses more shots will do. ecm can save you, sensor damps can save you, tracking disruptors can save you. where's the minny love? ______________________________________________________ Account Reactivated
Ithildin	Posted - 2006.04.30 11:48:00 - [107] Then again, Target Painter (or rather Target Precision Destabilizer or something) would act perhaps too similarly to the Tracking Disruptor... except... it would work on missiles, too! Bring on the Target Precision Destabilizers! Power to the Minmatar EWar boats! New sig coming soonÖ Drone musing (MC-boards)
Nafri	Posted - 2006.04.30 11:50:00 - [108] Originally by: Kaylana Syi Originally by: Sarmaul http://www.asgeirjon.com/gallery/displayimage.php?album=5&pos=2 it looks like a giant bellicose. if it gets a target painting bonus I'm quitting eve (again)... And then you will come back again... like everyone else ( I quit 2 times and came back 2 times. ) I don't think a TP bonus would be bad but it would have to be good enough to be borderline uber for me to be satisfied with it. Target Painting is just bad, its Optimal if way too low, the specialisation skill is pointless, even the huginn sucks with Target Painters. As Sarmaul said, TP should be reworked for a new offensive EW for Mataris, something which allows them to avoid damage like Everyone else. His Suggestion with the Sig Resolution of enemy guns is already pretty decent. The Target Painter has basicly only a role for missle ships to increase their damage, the effect for Gunships is close to zero. Summertime - Campingtime!
Nifel	Posted - 2006.04.30 13:20:00 - [109] Originally by: Istvaan Shogaatsu Originally by: Gierling An Amarr ship or a Minnie ship that can fit 8 tach II's or 8 1400II's is just plain wrong. Considering that the tier 1 and 2 Amarr BS can mount full racks of tachyons, I don't think it would be overpowered if the tier 3 can as well. And if the thought of eight piddly tachs upsets you, wait until you find out what they're really going to mount... >:) 1600mm Artillery, 550mm Railguns and Mega Tachyon Beams? "We wield swords for the sound of laughter that used to be there long ago." RKK Ranking: (MIN14) Sama
Plim	Posted - 2006.04.30 14:18:00 - [110] Think of the children! won't somebody please think of the children! ----------------- Victory or death! ... knitting is also an option.
Kaylana Syi	Posted - 2006.04.30 19:27:00 - [111] Originally by: Nafri Originally by: Kaylana Syi Originally by: Sarmaul http://www.asgeirjon.com/gallery/displayimage.php?album=5&pos=2 it looks like a giant bellicose. if it gets a target painting bonus I'm quitting eve (again)... And then you will come back again... like everyone else ( I quit 2 times and came back 2 times. ) I don't think a TP bonus would be bad but it would have to be good enough to be borderline uber for me to be satisfied with it. Target Painting is just bad, its Optimal if way too low, the specialisation skill is pointless, even the huginn sucks with Target Painters. As Sarmaul said, TP should be reworked for a new offensive EW for Mataris, something which allows them to avoid damage like Everyone else. His Suggestion with the Sig Resolution of enemy guns is already pretty decent. The Target Painter has basicly only a role for missle ships to increase their damage, the effect for Gunships is close to zero. Yeah you don't have to convince me about how TPs are bad in their current form . I did say a bonus to make them near ublar not a 5 - 7.5% that would just be as good as an optimal bonus on a 4 turret point ship. I do like Sarmaul's idea and do agree that ewar should negate damage. That said, I think its time the Megathron looses its tracking bonus to the tier 3 Matari BS and the Mega get a much needed MWD bonus tbh. That way the best form of racial damage mitigation for matari will be as it always has been... more precise alpha. 5% RoF and 7.5% tracking ( 5% base with Kali update ) to Tier Minmatar BS and give the megathron a 5% MWD cap reduction bonus per level. Originally by: "Oveur" I don't react to threats any better than you do
Talmssar	Posted - 2006.04.30 22:00:00 - [112] Edited by: Talmssar on 30/04/2006 22:04:35 Originally by: Tuxford Originally by: Nafri Drones hardly take SP to train for, a bit unfair since you need tons of Skillpoins as caldari now (~6.5 million electronics/~6 million gunnery/~ 5 million missles) would be great if such things could get balanced anytime soon No you still can just train missiles if you want. In fact even if you are caldari you don't need to train gunnery. You can just fly, Kestrel, Caracal, Cerberus, Raven. In fact once the tier 2 and tier 3 bs and the hawk changes come in you can almost always choose between a missile ship and a turret ship. I'll grant you that that if you want to fly all the caldari ships you need both good gunnery and missile skill but nobody is forcing you to do that. Sorry to tease but it seems Nighthawk is not planned to be flown around then? Maybe little reconfig on it? Or is it planned to be so awfull to fly (dmg & variability) that it wasnt counted in? Thought it is true that caldaris dont need to cross train like worst class of crosstraining (minnies) does. I just prefer that all have good time here.
nahtoh	Posted - 2006.04.30 23:47:00 - [113] Originally by: The Wizz117 Originally by: sarabando every onw says how caldari are all missles but if you look at the starting skills you character starts with gunnery 1 and small rail 1 but you can then add missles currently there is no rail bs for us and if you look at naturla progresion of weapons in RL people always make somthing bigger so stop cry that you solo pwn mobile of a raven might not cut it soon yes but then u get this kestrel thing with missile launchers and then u want nothing else You did not want anything else you mean...i flew the merlin most of the time... ========= "I am not saying there should be capital punishment for stupidity, but why can`t we just take the safety labels off everything and let the problem fix its self
Yurdis Astor	Posted - 2006.05.01 09:06:00 - [114] Originally by: Apertotes in the end, i think the easiest part is for amarr yes, cause we have no drone boats, missile hardpoints, or khanid ships. You only need a few points in mechanic, and energy turrets, then you can pwnnnnnn
Seraphim Io	Posted - 2006.05.01 11:35:00 - [115] Originally by: Nifel 1600mm Artillery, 550mm Railguns and Mega Tachyon Beams? ...........If wanting those is wrong I don't want to be right
Crellion	Posted - 2006.05.01 12:28:00 - [116] Originally by: Nifel Originally by: Istvaan Shogaatsu Originally by: Gierling An Amarr ship or a Minnie ship that can fit 8 tach II's or 8 1400II's is just plain wrong. Considering that the tier 1 and 2 Amarr BS can mount full racks of tachyons, I don't think it would be overpowered if the tier 3 can as well. And if the thought of eight piddly tachs upsets you, wait until you find out what they're really going to mount... >:) 1600mm Artillery, 550mm Railguns and Mega Tachyon Beams? Tachyon beams are allready mega. Why do you think they were given the small(TM) buff? Suffer to my 550mms powning your lowly tachyons now

Pages: 1 2 3 4 :: [one page]

COPYRIGHT NOTICE
EVE Online, the EVE logo, EVE and all associated logos and designs are the intellectual property of CCP hf. All artwork, screenshots, characters, vehicles, storylines, world facts or other recognizable features of the intellectual property relating to these trademarks are likewise the intellectual property of CCP hf. EVE Online and the EVE logo are the registered trademarks of CCP hf. All rights are reserved worldwide. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners. CCP hf. has granted permission to EVE-Search.com to use EVE Online and all associated logos and designs for promotional and information purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not in any way affiliated with, EVE-Search.com. CCP is in no way responsible for the content on or functioning of this website, nor can it be liable for any damage arising from the use of this website.