Its not CCP's fault that nullsec is bad, its the players fault.

Just like Lowsec is, pirates kill people and laugh at them and tell them to go back to highsec.

A month later they complain that people aren't coming lowsec. The same applies to nullsec, mindless blobs gank people that come in and tell them to go carebear in highsec. A year later they complain that nullsec is dying and they need CCP to get more people in nullsec.

I see how Nullsec Alliances are depending upon CCP just like how US Automakers were depending on the US government to fix the problems that they themselves created.

They don't want to take responsibility that nullsec is the way it is because they made it so. They don't want to admit their faults.

They want CCP to spend time and resources to make things better so that they can continue to do what they do and not think about the consequences.

I see how Nullsec Alliances are depending upon CCP just like how US Automakers were depending on the US government to fix the problems that they themselves created.

They don't want to take responsibility that nullsec is the way it is because they made it so. They don't want to admit their faults.

They want CCP to spend time and resources to make things better so that they can continue to do what they do and not think about the consequences.

Well... sort of.

Either CCP does not listen to their economist, or their economist does a halfassed job.

Rule #1 of economics: People respond to incentives.

Yes, it's the players that are doing lots of stupid, but it's CCP's fault that all that stupid is the smartest decisions they can make.

Well... sort of.

Either CCP does not listen to their economist, or their economist does a halfassed job.

Rule #1 of economics: People respond to incentives.

Yes, it's the players that are doing lots of stupid, but it's CCP's fault that all that stupid is the smartest decisions they can make.

Move level 4's to low, nerf ISK/LP payouts in highsec incursions, make all things take large amounts of rare minerals to create (Even more) and make Sov suck less male chicken.

Really, everyone is so busy demanding they nerf Highsec (Safety-wise) that they forget nerfing is not the answer.

You can double the reward of nullsec and people will still not come. Nullsec is undesirable because players make it so.

You can double the reward of nullsec and people will still not come. Nullsec is undesirable because players make it so.

Its not CCP's fault that nullsec is bad, its the players fault.

Wrong, it is CCPs fault they've not accounted for normal human behaviuor.

Don't think sovereignty helps much either, just encourages larger corps to form and then they tend to just sit in their own space.

The thing is, I don't think it's even about isk. Economics seems to be about isk on the surface, but what it boils down to deep is why people do what they do. (I knew an economist PHD who studied pollution. Why? Because he can.) Yes, sociology and psychology also attempt to describe the same things on a smaller scale, but only economics seems to ever get it right.

Why am I not a nullbear? Because it does not sound fun. If fun is the currency, supply is lowest in null, regardless of the material resources. Oddly, I'm betting the people who pay their mortgages with their dispro and tech moons, hordes of taxes and dues, and of course their bots, probably are also consuming the most nullsec fun as well.

Please CCP, there is nothing wrong with Nullsec and there are plenty of isk and opportunities to become rich. It is the fault of the alliances and the people there that make it so.

That's like saying food should be banned because eating can make you fat.

Wrong, it is CCPs fault they've not accounted for normal human behaviuor.

Don't think sovereignty helps much either, just encourages larger corps to form and then they tend to just sit in their own space.

Its not CCP's fault that nullsec is bad, its the players fault.

Just like Lowsec is, pirates kill people and laugh at them and tell them to go back to highsec.

A month later they complain that people aren't coming lowsec. They then whine and cry like little babies about how highsec and nullsec needs to be nerfed.

The same applies to nullsec, mindless blobs gank people that come in and tell them to go carebear in highsec.

A year later they complain that nullsec is dying and they need CCP to get more people in nullsec.

Please CCP, there is nothing wrong with Nullsec and there are plenty of isk and opportunities to become rich. It is the fault of the alliances and the people there that make it so.

Trying to fix nullsec and lowsec is trying to make someone quit drugs, its pretty much impossible. They won't change so no

matter what Nullsec will remain as it is.

There are plenty of people living in nullsec, nothing needs to be changed.

There's no way you can expect how people will behave and react. You can't blame CCP for what has happened to nullsec and trying get the player to play in a certain way will not work for CCP, they'll just quit.

That's where you're wrong, you can account for human behaviour, it's not as individual as individuals at least when it comes down to a conrtolled environment and a game is just that.

Not arguing with the OP in regards of the 'moving highsec players to lowsec' - you may be right, you may be wrong - I don't really care.

You wont get anyone who just wants to watch his space-aquarium into null- or lowsec space - period.

However, null and lowsec are not fine. I currently have most of my actual characters parked in highsec, yet I used to do lots of pvp, spent most of my time in 0.0 and lowsec and loved pvp, but as that's of no concern to this thread, I'll keep the reasons why I don't anymore to myself.

As opposed to most people in GD, my concern isn't converting highsec bears into nullsec bears, but making game mechanics in low/0.0 fun for those actually interested in pvp.

Why should CCP waste time and resources trying to "fix" nullsec when there are much more pressing concerns in the game.

People should be aware and accept the consequences of their own actions. CCP did not tell you or force you to create absurdly large mega alliances surrounded by blues with hordes of RMT bots. That was of YOUR OWN DOING.

Its called RESPONSIBILITY AND LIABILITY. If you can't accept that then HTFU.

EVE University does not teach PvP. The real teachers are the pirate corporations who specialize in small-gang tactics.

It might help if you limit the number of systems a corp/alliance can have sovereignty over due to skill points. There are skills for everything in the game except sovereignty.

Until coalitions and NAPfests remain, along with swarms of blues nullsec will remain as it is. If you don't like it then You the players have to change it. Don't get CCP to change nullsec due to problems that alliances have created.

If you want action, I will quote: " Stop having so much blues and start shooting."

Why should CCP waste time and resources trying to "fix" nullsec when there are much more pressing concerns in the game.




People should be aware and accept the consequences of their own actions. CCP did not tell you or force you to create absurdly large mega alliances surrounded by blues with hordes of RMT bots. That was of YOUR OWN DOING.

Its called RESPONSIBILITY AND LIABILITY. If you can't accept that then HTFU.

As opposed to most people in GD, my concern isn't converting highsec bears into nullsec bears, but making game mechanics in low/0.0 fun for those actually interested in pvp.

Really, everyone is so busy demanding they nerf Highsec (Safety-wise) that they forget nerfing is not the answer.

Yeah, because 3 people ("small gang") in Warp Scrambler Hurricanes sitting at a gate for the helpless Industrial is F*CKING HARDCORE PVP MAN!!!!

Translation: Go f*ck yourself.

Players created the mega blobs and lagtastic fleet fights. It doesn't matter how much CCP fixes lag, alliances will continue to dump ships into the node UNTIL IT LAGS, THEN THEY WILL COMPLAIN ABOUT THE LAG.

Alliances should stop having their space full of blues so they won't be so bored so much.

Imagine if we applied the Nullsec Alliance systems and Coalitions to the Entire EVE universe. There would simply be not much people to fight, and when targets are found they will be crushed with ridiculous overwhelming force, never to be seen again.


Then they will run out of Targets because no one wants to fight a ridiculously Large Blob.

If you want easy to find and easy to destroy kills, well that's simply too bad, most people will not make the same mistake twice.

Alliances should think about their war philosophy and politics and wonder why nullsec is stagnating.

If they can't do that, well they deserve to fail.

CCP is not responsible are how alliances should be run, that's the Players' job!

Its not CCP's fault that nullsec is bad, its the players fault.

Its not CCP's fault that nullsec is bad, its the players fault.

Just like Lowsec is, pirates kill people and laugh at them and tell them to go back to highsec.

A month later they complain that people aren't coming lowsec. They then whine and cry like little babies about how highsec and nullsec needs to be nerfed.

The same applies to nullsec, mindless blobs gank people that come in and tell them to go carebear in highsec.

A year later they complain that nullsec is dying and they need CCP to get more people in nullsec.

Please CCP, there is nothing wrong with Nullsec and there are plenty of isk and opportunities to become rich. It is the fault of the alliances and the people there that make it so.

Trying to fix nullsec and lowsec is trying to make someone quit drugs, its pretty much impossible. They won't change so no

matter what Nullsec will remain as it is.

There are plenty of people living in nullsec, nothing needs to be changed.

Its not CCP's fault that nullsec is bad, its the players fault.

Its not CCP's fault that nullsec is bad, its the players fault.

Just like Lowsec is, pirates kill people and laugh at them and tell them to go back to highsec.

A month later they complain that people aren't coming lowsec. They then whine and cry like little babies about how highsec and nullsec needs to be nerfed.

The same applies to nullsec, mindless blobs gank people that come in and tell them to go carebear in highsec.

A year later they complain that nullsec is dying and they need CCP to get more people in nullsec.

Please CCP, there is nothing wrong with Nullsec and there are plenty of isk and opportunities to become rich. It is the fault of the alliances and the people there that make it so.

Trying to fix nullsec and lowsec is trying to make someone quit drugs, its pretty much impossible. They won't change so no

matter what Nullsec will remain as it is.

There are plenty of people living in nullsec, nothing needs to be changed.

well... They could limit the number of people in a corp and the number of people in an alliance.... the tears would be awsome

The problem is not the players so much as it is CCP. CCP allows Null sec to be choked off, with perma running bubble gate camps. If they want high sec carebears to move into null sec, then they need to tear down those walls!

The problem is not the players so much as it is CCP. CCP allows Null sec to be choked off, with perma running bubble gate camps. If they want high sec carebears to move into null sec, then they need to tear down those walls!

well... They could limit the number of people in a corp and the number of people in an alliance.... the tears would be awsome

It's hilariously easy to move through 0.0 if you try some other method than "Get in Raven, set autopilot, activate autopilot".

Would you like to know more?

Exactly. EVE is player driven. If the carebears in null-sec really wanted some action, they'd wardaec eachother.

wat?

Clearly you don't know what youre talking about

Far from being a null vet myself, i have to question this? Elaborate some.

Null is full of big alliances with thousands of players, 99% of which complain that null is boring and CCP owes it to them for some reson to fix what you yourselves broke.

Usually the most obvious solution is the right one, if you null sec bears are bored, it because you blueball everybody within reach to protect your RMT bot operations, ergo, if you want constant unrestricted PVP ( which is the whole point of null ) then red each other and pew pew to your hearts content.

Problem solved.

You lot always call high seccers bears for not coming into low/null, yet there are no bigger hypocrties than yourselves, your all carebears in null by your own choice, you just dont like people knowing it.

You guys made null into the place it is now, so stop whining that it need buffing when your the ones that made it into the boring void its become.

99% of null seem to be pretty dam content with shooting each other right now.

This line implies only 1% of null have blued each other, which is either a troll or you're too insignificant/stupid/ignorant to know any better.

One thing that would really jazz it up is the ability to dial in a system to system warp for most ships, whether by module, rig or hull.

The gank pipelines and hence the gankaholics along with the usual use of renter space as killing fields have managed to form a Great Wall of Carebear around high sec. The gates, and the mechanics around them, lead to gate camps and blobs. The gate camp and the warp bubble reign. Remove the dependency on them and the age of the Combat Probe and small patrol begins.

There's a thread for system to system hyperwarp in F&I.

well... They could limit the number of people in a corp and the number of people in an alliance.... the tears would be awsome

Its not CCP's fault that nullsec is bad, its the players fault.

Just like Lowsec is, pirates kill people and laugh at them and tell them to go back to highsec.

The same applies to nullsec, mindless blobs gank people that come in and tell them to go carebear in highsec.

The only reason why I posted is cus there's a lot of people who clearly dont know what theyre talking about...

You sound like a big baby.

And you are one of them...

You want a way to avoid gatecamps and bubbles and instantly reach your destination? Wow what a massive carebear you are.

Moon-mining is very lucrative and does not take much effort to extract. Where does the money go? It goes to the Alliance leaders. I doubt a single isk goes to the bottom.

Maybe you should stop being greedy and give some of the wealth to the underlings, if you want them to continue to fighting for you.

Oh also have high level DED's that give to high priced Deadspace modules or even better the officer modules. It does not take much effort to make the isk, you're just doing it wrong.

Please tell me more about all of our moon mineral income going to our directorate.

You should try to see the average players point of veiw about nullsec. If they know less than jack about warp bubbles and attempt null through CCP's fancy choke points, then they are likely warping into a blob gate camp. After a few wtfpwndbbqs they will try something more profitable. Simple solution: remove warp bubbles. Let the care campers do some work.

Wake up, EVE is all about personal gain regardless of how its dressed up.

It would be interesting to know just how 'poor' your very own mittens is......

The OP makes some vaild points, IMHO.

I'm fairly new to the game and yes, I know very little about Null Sec game mechanics. However, I can use the in game map and that seems to suggest that most pew pew (ships destroyed, ignoring starter systems) actually takes place in Hi Sec. On the other hand, looking at the out of game influence map, broad swathes of Null Sec are held by a small group of large alliances.

Isn't Null Sec meant to be harsh and full of foreboding and risk for everyone and not just a blue filled refuge for the esconced corp/alliance?

Aren't Nullbears just as bad for the game's future as the Hi Sec Carebears?

Again, I don't know enough to have a concrete view, hence my questions.

Wake up, EVE is all about personal gain regardless of how its dressed up.

It would be interesting to know just how 'poor' your very own mittens is......

It's very easy to evade camps, but it's even easier to whine about them.

well... They could limit the number of people in a corp and the number of people in an alliance.... the tears would be awsome

because, clearly, an alliance willing to dump most of its ISK into making the game as fun as possible for its members is one designed explicitly to fill the coffers of its elite.

ya don't know whatcha talkin 'bout.

He takes a decent cut of every supercapital sale he secures through his third party service. Why would he need to skim alliance ISK?

Have you ever been to a system called Nonni? It's a 0.5 sec in Lonetrek, it has quite a few stations, and it's 6 or 7 jumps from Jita.

Nonni has more production capacity than any 5 regions of sovereign 0.0 space. For free.

Think about that for a moment.




Carry on.

You telling us that mittens isnt (possibly) one of the richest within EVE?






3rd party service? lol

I never implied he's skimming, im simply saying how much of that isk actually goes to you individual players?
Im simply saying mittens having the role he has, is considerably better off isk wise than probably the rest of goons combined.

well... They could limit the number of people in a corp and the number of people in an alliance.... the tears would be awsome

This in not an idea any more

nullsec ain't worth it. I don't need to know more. You have been around long enough to know that when CCP introduced warp bubbles it messed up nullsec. The only thin that is "hilariously easy" is gate camping with warp bubbles.

I posted some real, workable solutions to get more people in null-sec, in this thread.

People in null-sec were against it (go figure), and people in hi-sec liked my post but were too intimidated to throw in their own two cents.

The null-sec carebears want more people coming to null-sec, but not if it threatens their status quo.

The OP, and most posters in this thread, clearly haven't got a clue about nullsec. Let me educate you.

In the beginning, nullsec was anarchy; a power vacuum. But power abhors a vacuum, and so the supposedly lawless space of nullsec became the domain of large alliances. Where there is anarchy, the man with the biggest stick is the boss. That power and influence extends beyond formal sovereign borders, sometimes forcing nearby alliances to 'rent' their space (effectively pay tribute), or be forced off it to make way for someone who will pay. With me so far? Good.

Nullsec alliances have fought for the space they hold. They have bashed TCUs, i-hubs, stations and POSes in order to establish their control. It's a tedious and gruelling grind. So having gone through all that effort to conquer and develop their space, do you think nullsec players will be happy to let any old scrub come in and start exploiting the resources they have worked to take control of? Of course not. They didn't spend hours grinding through millions of hitpoints, and spend billions of ISK upgrading the resources of their space for your benefit. They did it for themselves. It's their space, and they are right to defend it.

If you want to live in nullsec, you have to serve the man with the big stick. If you don't want to do that, you have to either have the ISK or the diplomatic ability make nice with your neighbours, or be strong enough to carve out and protect your own domain. That's anarchy for you.

The reason nullsec is stagnant right now has everything to do with the mechanics of nullsec warfare and nothing to do with how jealously nullsec alliances protect their assets. Grinding through millions of hitpoints on sov structures for hours on end is a huge bore. The intended tools for that task (dreadnoughts) are unsuitable. The huge battles that are supposed to be one of the hallmarks of nullsec warfare are currently settled solely by which side has the most supercapitals, rendering all other tactics, skill and planning irrelevant, and excluding the vast majority of pilots from playing any decisive part in the fight.

The ability of 100-ship blobs to move around as quickly as 10-ship roaming gangs often ends with hideously lopsided - and critically unenjoyable - engagements. And even when 'good fights' do take place, it's normally between homogenous gangs of single types of ships, let alone ship classes. Fleets comprised entirely of Abaddons, Drakes, Hurricanes, Maelstroms, or Zealots, with a smattering of essential supporting logistics, tackle and interdiction, make fights rather one dimensional. Rock/paper/scissors is a good analogy for how solo PVP should work, but fleet PVP ought to be far more complex.

And on top of that, the opportunities to make ISK in nullsec, to fund all that PVP, are too limited compared to the easy-mode highsec isk faucets of level 4 missions and highsec incursions. Nullsec industry is nearly non-existent, due to the difficulty of using outposts for refining and production, and the ease of using jump freighters to and from highsec.

Because of all this, nullsec alliance warfare is a chore, and even the carebears that understand nullsec don't want to be there because they can make more ISK in highsec. That is why it has stagnated.

You could say that the players and alliances have created these problems, and for some of them, that would be half right. But you can't blame players and alliances for playing to win within the existing mechanics. If there is an imbalance, they will exploit it. If there is a way to smother any potential resistance, they will do so. It's CCP's job to design those mechanics in a way that keeps things interesting.

You know, from all that you wrote, there is only one thing I can spot that you could put on CCP's shoulders as far as the nullsec situation goes: they made sov structures take too long to kill.

....

If any of the current nullsec alliances would just for once think a bit differently, then things would be very different. The fact is, shoot everything that isn't us is extremely short sighted. If your main interest is pvp, then you should welcome strangers in to your home. Even protect those strangers, provided that they follow some simple rules (that can be anything from pay the rent to only dock in this station).

If done successfully, the profits are almost endless. Imagine if you could have 5k isk everytime somebody docks in Jita. Or let's say a bit more, 50k. At which point would people stop paying the fee to dock at Jita 4-4?

And yes, there ample opportunities to make isk in nullsec. The only thing that can make it less profitable is the fact that there is no concord to protect a player from hostile intervention. If no hostile intervention is present, the money making potential is muich higher.

No, the tools are there, the will is missing though.

CCP can easily add a tax on blue standings. Make it work just like wardecs. Each one costs more than the previous. Pay monthly or it's reset. They are effectively the original anti-war dec mechanic.

Tears!

The OP, and most posters in this thread, clearly haven't got a clue about nullsec. Let me educate you.

Nullsec is for people who like being someone else's *****. Or, you take it really way too serious, stop having a RL while living on delivery pizza and you can make someone else your ***** while gloating about your vast amount of internet spaceship pixels and imaginary wallet.

I am in a one man Highsec corp, to lend gravitas to my douchebag posting, also nullsecers are poopie heads, and I hate them.

You're wrong. There's a lot more than just sov structures that only CCP can fix. Supercaps. Dreadnoughts. Overall ship and weapon balancing and useful roles to help diversity. The marginal utility of nullsec PVE over highsec. Lag. Blob mobility. The uselessness of outposts for industry. All of those things are mechanical problems, and have nothing to do with how players choose to play the game.

Sov-holding alliances would generally rather accumulate power than keep opponents in their midst to provide PVP content. That's fine - it's the engine of conflict. The problem is that the mechanics of that conflict are so shoddy that players are bored of it. Because of that, the pet alliances that should be growing into territory-hungry powerhouses and challenging the established powers, aren't growing any more because they've been struggling to recruit new people for months.

See now you're lying. That is to say, you're deliberately saying things that aren't true.

Bubbles are far more for the protection of PvErs than they are for killing them