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Nullsec is fine, its your fault that you made it like this.

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Parsee789 Immaterial and Missing Power 2	Posted - 2011.11.13 01:50:00 - [1] - Quote Its not CCP's fault that nullsec is bad, its the players fault. Just like Lowsec is, pirates kill people and laugh at them and tell them to go back to highsec. A month later they complain that people aren't coming lowsec. They then whine and cry like little babies about how highsec and nullsec needs to be nerfed. The same applies to nullsec, mindless blobs gank people that come in and tell them to go carebear in highsec. A year later they complain that nullsec is dying and they need CCP to get more people in nullsec. Please CCP, there is nothing wrong with Nullsec and there are plenty of isk and opportunities to become rich. It is the fault of the alliances and the people there that make it so. Trying to fix nullsec and lowsec is trying to make someone quit drugs, its pretty much impossible. They won't change so no matter what Nullsec will remain as it is. There are plenty of people living in nullsec, nothing needs to be changed.
Stan Smith Remenent British Federation 18	Posted - 2011.11.13 01:55:00 - [2] - Quote i didnt read your post before i liked it. but i like where you're going there
Justin Credulent Perkone Caldari State 41	Posted - 2011.11.13 01:58:00 - [3] - Quote Quote: Its not CCP's fault that nullsec is bad, its the players fault. Exactly. EVE is player driven. If the carebears in null-sec really wanted some action, they'd wardaec eachother. Quote: Just like Lowsec is, pirates kill people and laugh at them and tell them to go back to highsec. Or when null-sec players tell hi-sec players to "go play hello kitty". Maybe it's the people in null-sec who need to find a different game? They're the ones crying the loudest... Quote: A month later they complain that people aren't coming lowsec. The same applies to nullsec, mindless blobs gank people that come in and tell them to go carebear in highsec. A year later they complain that nullsec is dying and they need CCP to get more people in nullsec. Yeah go figure. Abusers abuse people, and eventually their victims avoid them. Now the abusers are crying that there's a shortage of victims. I've said it before and I'll say it again: If null-sec carebears want action, they need to nut up and declare war on eachother.
Parsee789 Immaterial and Missing Power 5	Posted - 2011.11.13 02:00:00 - [4] - Quote I see how Nullsec Alliances are depending upon CCP just like how US Automakers were depending on the US government to fix the problems that they themselves created. They don't want to take responsibility that nullsec is the way it is because they made it so. They don't want to admit their faults. They want CCP to spend time and resources to make things better so that they can continue to do what they do and not think about the consequences.
Paragon Renegade Solar Arbiters 88	Posted - 2011.11.13 02:03:00 - [5] - Quote Parsee789 wrote: I see how Nullsec Alliances are depending upon CCP just like how US Automakers were depending on the US government to fix the problems that they themselves created. They don't want to take responsibility that nullsec is the way it is because they made it so. They don't want to admit their faults. They want CCP to spend time and resources to make things better so that they can continue to do what they do and not think about the consequences. At risk of sounding like a total "Safety hoe"; this sounds spot-on Come at us, nullbros "Man, you aren't actually trying to do this, right? Nobody is that stupid right?" "How wrong you are"
mkint 320	Posted - 2011.11.13 02:04:00 - [6] - Quote Parsee789 wrote: I see how Nullsec Alliances are depending upon CCP just like how US Automakers were depending on the US government to fix the problems that they themselves created. They don't want to take responsibility that nullsec is the way it is because they made it so. They don't want to admit their faults. They want CCP to spend time and resources to make things better so that they can continue to do what they do and not think about the consequences. Well... sort of. Either CCP does not listen to their economist, or their economist does a halfassed job. Rule #1 of economics: People respond to incentives. Yes, it's the players that are doing lots of stupid, but it's CCP's fault that all that stupid is the smartest decisions they can make.
Parsee789 Immaterial and Missing Power 5	Posted - 2011.11.13 02:07:00 - [7] - Quote mkint wrote: Parsee789 wrote: I see how Nullsec Alliances are depending upon CCP just like how US Automakers were depending on the US government to fix the problems that they themselves created. They don't want to take responsibility that nullsec is the way it is because they made it so. They don't want to admit their faults. They want CCP to spend time and resources to make things better so that they can continue to do what they do and not think about the consequences. Well... sort of. Either CCP does not listen to their economist, or their economist does a halfassed job. Rule #1 of economics: People respond to incentives. Yes, it's the players that are doing lots of stupid, but it's CCP's fault that all that stupid is the smartest decisions they can make. Moon-mining is very lucrative and does not take much effort to extract. Where does the money go? It goes to the Alliance leaders. I doubt a single isk goes to the bottom. Maybe you should stop being greedy and give some of the wealth to the underlings, if you want them to continue to fighting for you.
Paragon Renegade Solar Arbiters 88	Posted - 2011.11.13 02:08:00 - [8] - Quote mkint wrote: Parsee789 wrote: I see how Nullsec Alliances are depending upon CCP just like how US Automakers were depending on the US government to fix the problems that they themselves created. They don't want to take responsibility that nullsec is the way it is because they made it so. They don't want to admit their faults. They want CCP to spend time and resources to make things better so that they can continue to do what they do and not think about the consequences. Well... sort of. Either CCP does not listen to their economist, or their economist does a halfassed job. Rule #1 of economics: People respond to incentives. Yes, it's the players that are doing lots of stupid, but it's CCP's fault that all that stupid is the smartest decisions they can make. Move level 4's to low, nerf ISK/LP payouts in highsec incursions, make all things take large amounts of rare minerals to create (Even more) and make Sov suck less male chicken. Really, everyone is so busy demanding they nerf Highsec that they forget nerfing is not the answer. "Man, you aren't actually trying to do this, right? Nobody is that stupid right?" "How wrong you are"
Parsee789 Immaterial and Missing Power 9	Posted - 2011.11.13 02:09:00 - [9] - Quote Paragon Renegade wrote: mkint wrote: Parsee789 wrote: I see how Nullsec Alliances are depending upon CCP just like how US Automakers were depending on the US government to fix the problems that they themselves created. They don't want to take responsibility that nullsec is the way it is because they made it so. They don't want to admit their faults. They want CCP to spend time and resources to make things better so that they can continue to do what they do and not think about the consequences. Well... sort of. Either CCP does not listen to their economist, or their economist does a halfassed job. Rule #1 of economics: People respond to incentives. Yes, it's the players that are doing lots of stupid, but it's CCP's fault that all that stupid is the smartest decisions they can make. Move level 4's to low, nerf ISK/LP payouts in highsec incursions, make all things take large amounts of rare minerals to create (Even more) and make Sov suck less male chicken. Really, everyone is so busy demanding they nerf Highsec (Safety-wise) that they forget nerfing is not the answer. You can double the reward of nullsec and people will still not come. Nullsec is undesirable because players make it so.
Paragon Renegade Solar Arbiters 88	Posted - 2011.11.13 02:13:00 - [10] - Quote Parsee789 wrote: You can double the reward of nullsec and people will still not come. Nullsec is undesirable because players make it so. You can avoid them if you're really dedicated to doing so, or you can bypass them altogether by taking over a remote Sov and setting up some tight defensive perimeters. It would be nice if nullsec wasn't instant death for the solo/small group player(s) though "Man, you aren't actually trying to do this, right? Nobody is that stupid right?" "How wrong you are"
Famble Three's a Crowd 32	Posted - 2011.11.13 02:14:00 - [11] - Quote Quote: You can double the reward of nullsec and people will still not come. Nullsec is undesirable because players make it so. Confirming that's true.
mkint 321	Posted - 2011.11.13 02:17:00 - [12] - Quote The thing is, I don't think it's even about isk. Economics seems to be about isk on the surface, but what it boils down to deep is why people do what they do. (I knew an economist PHD who studied pollution. Why? Because he can.) Yes, sociology and psychology also attempt to describe the same things on a smaller scale, but only economics seems to ever get it right. Why am I not a nullbear? Because it does not sound fun. If fun is the currency, supply is lowest in null, regardless of the material resources. Oddly, I'm betting the people who pay their mortgages with their dispro and tech moons, hordes of taxes and dues, and of course their bots, probably are also consuming the most nullsec fun as well.
Stella Dust Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 10	Posted - 2011.11.13 02:17:00 - [13] - Quote Parsee789 wrote: Its not CCP's fault that nullsec is bad, its the players fault. Wrong, it is CCPs fault they've not accounted for normal human behaviuor. Don't think sovereignty helps much either, just encourages larger corps to form and then they tend to just sit in their own space.
Parsee789 Immaterial and Missing Power 10	Posted - 2011.11.13 02:20:00 - [14] - Quote Stella Dust wrote: Parsee789 wrote: Its not CCP's fault that nullsec is bad, its the players fault. Wrong, it is CCPs fault they've not accounted for normal human behaviuor. Don't think sovereignty helps much either, just encourages larger corps to form and then they tend to just sit in their own space. That's like saying food should be banned because eating can make you fat.
Paragon Renegade Solar Arbiters 88	Posted - 2011.11.13 02:20:00 - [15] - Quote mkint wrote: The thing is, I don't think it's even about isk. Economics seems to be about isk on the surface, but what it boils down to deep is why people do what they do. (I knew an economist PHD who studied pollution. Why? Because he can.) Yes, sociology and psychology also attempt to describe the same things on a smaller scale, but only economics seems to ever get it right. Why am I not a nullbear? Because it does not sound fun. If fun is the currency, supply is lowest in null, regardless of the material resources. Oddly, I'm betting the people who pay their mortgages with their dispro and tech moons, hordes of taxes and dues, and of course their bots, probably are also consuming the most nullsec fun as well. This is true. I only bear around to prepare all my ISK and Hangar while I train moar compensation and BS skills. I'm betting most ultimately do the same, because to be honest, mining/missioning or trading is really boring, the real fun is fighting others, even if it's a hopeless fight "Man, you aren't actually trying to do this, right? Nobody is that stupid right?" "How wrong you are"
Dirk Magnum Sarz'na Khumatari Ushra'Khan 59	Posted - 2011.11.13 02:20:00 - [16] - Quote Parsee789 wrote: Please CCP, there is nothing wrong with Nullsec and there are plenty of isk and opportunities to become rich. It is the fault of the alliances and the people there that make it so. I'm glad to be of service in making sure "there is nothing wrong with Nullsec." The fact that there is nothing wrong with Nullsec is my fault. I can accept that :manly tear:
xwolfi 1	Posted - 2011.11.13 02:21:00 - [17] - Quote yeah each time I go to nullsec, some moron insult me because I'm not from an english-speaking country :D I'd rather stay in high sec with nice and fun people to pvp than spend any more time with the clueless morons populating nullsec... And you can nerf whatever you want, you can't change this, right ?
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 1439	Posted - 2011.11.13 02:21:00 - [18] - Quote Parsee789 wrote: That's like saying food should be banned because eating can make you fat. No, it's like saying that it's the manufacturer's fault if the food is 99% sugars and fats when it doesn't need to contain any of either. GÇöGÇöGÇö GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ GÇö Karath Piki-á
mkint 321	Posted - 2011.11.13 02:23:00 - [19] - Quote Stella Dust wrote: Parsee789 wrote: Its not CCP's fault that nullsec is bad, its the players fault. Wrong, it is CCPs fault they've not accounted for normal human behaviuor. Don't think sovereignty helps much either, just encourages larger corps to form and then they tend to just sit in their own space. What if sovereignty was removed as a mechanic altogether? In fact, what if there was no corp or alliance chat in null, just region and constellation? Then conquering space would be a matter of conquering the people who live there.
Parsee789 Immaterial and Missing Power 11	Posted - 2011.11.13 02:28:00 - [20] - Quote There's no way you can expect how people will behave and react. You can't blame CCP for what has happened to nullsec and trying get the player to play in a certain way will not work for CCP, they'll just quit.
Dirk Magnum Sarz'na Khumatari Ushra'Khan 59	Posted - 2011.11.13 02:36:00 - [21] - Quote The rash of nullsec threads on GD lately has started to disturb me. Why is this? Do the people who brought down the formerly semi-dangerous High Sec now have nullsec in their sights? Were people who got butthurt by Nullsec emboldened by the aforementioned High Sec risk-aversion squad? What's going on? Coalitions and massive NAPfests are pretty lame, yes. But they're unavoidable. If Nullsec needs any change it's a change that boosts the ability of smaller groups to disrupt the cash flow that these coalitions are making in their otherwise relatively peaceful space. I'd support a change like that, yes, but not at the expense of everything else that makes Nullsec interesting like sovereignty and player-developed infrastructure.
Large Collidable Object morons. 561	Posted - 2011.11.13 02:39:00 - [22] - Quote Not arguing with the OP in regards of the 'moving highsec players to lowsec' - you may be right, you may be wrong - I don't really care. You wont get anyone who just wants to watch his space-aquarium into null- or lowsec space - period. However, null and lowsec are not fine. I currently have most of my actual characters parked in highsec, yet I used to do lots of pvp, spent most of my time in 0.0 and lowsec and loved pvp, but as that's of no concern to this thread, I'll keep the reasons why I don't anymore to myself. As opposed to most people in GD, my concern isn't converting highsec bears into nullsec bears, but making game mechanics in low/0.0 fun for those actually interested in pvp. morons-áare recruiting. We're good at breeding!
Justin Credulent Perkone Caldari State 45	Posted - 2011.11.13 02:56:00 - [23] - Quote ^I like you. Null-Sec needs to HTFU and stop crying to CCP. If null-sec wants PvP, they need to stop being carebears and start fighting eachother - after years of bot-mining, they have the ships!
Revolution Rising Native Freshfood Minmatar Republic 23	Posted - 2011.11.13 03:02:00 - [24] - Quote Parsee789 wrote: Its not CCP's fault that nullsec is bad, its the players fault. Just like Lowsec is, pirates kill people and laugh at them and tell them to go back to highsec. A month later they complain that people aren't coming lowsec. They then whine and cry like little babies about how highsec and nullsec needs to be nerfed. The same applies to nullsec, mindless blobs gank people that come in and tell them to go carebear in highsec. A year later they complain that nullsec is dying and they need CCP to get more people in nullsec. Please CCP, there is nothing wrong with Nullsec and there are plenty of isk and opportunities to become rich. It is the fault of the alliances and the people there that make it so. Trying to fix nullsec and lowsec is trying to make someone quit drugs, its pretty much impossible. They won't change so no matter what Nullsec will remain as it is. There are plenty of people living in nullsec, nothing needs to be changed. /signed. Break the larger alliances up to the point where anyone can throw a pos down in nullsec without them hunting it down within 24 hours, and more people might be interested in nullsec. As it is, they aren't REALLY interested in fights so much as they are interested in slaughter. They blob everything, blue everyone and then wonder why more people aren't coming out to put themselves under their guns.
Stella Dust Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 10	Posted - 2011.11.13 03:06:00 - [25] - Quote Parsee789 wrote: There's no way you can expect how people will behave and react. You can't blame CCP for what has happened to nullsec and trying get the player to play in a certain way will not work for CCP, they'll just quit. That's where you're wrong, you can account for human behaviour, it's not as individual as individuals at least when it comes down to a conrtolled environment and a game is just that.
Parsee789 Immaterial and Missing Power 13	Posted - 2011.11.13 03:07:00 - [26] - Quote Until coalitions and NAPfests remain, along with swarms of blues nullsec will remain as it is. If you don't like it then You the players have to change it. Don't get CCP to change nullsec due to problems that alliances have created. If you want action, I will quote: " Stop having so much blues and start shooting." Why should CCP waste time and resources trying to "fix" nullsec when there are much more pressing concerns in the game.
Kent Reeves 13	Posted - 2011.11.13 03:09:00 - [27] - Quote It might help if you limit the number of systems a corp/alliance can have sovereignty over due to skill points. There are skills for everything in the game except sovereignty.
Justin Credulent Perkone Caldari State 45	Posted - 2011.11.13 03:10:00 - [28] - Quote Stella Dust wrote: Parsee789 wrote: There's no way you can expect how people will behave and react. You can't blame CCP for what has happened to nullsec and trying get the player to play in a certain way will not work for CCP, they'll just quit. That's where you're wrong, you can account for human behaviour, it's not as individual as individuals at least when it comes down to a conrtolled environment and a game is just that. if CCP forced me to plya in Nullsec, then yes, I would cancel my sub, which has 70 days left on it, and I would just keep my character docked training skills until the sub ran out in the hopes that one day EVE was worth playing again. Null-Sec needs to HTFU and stop crying to CCP. If null-sec wants PvP, they need to stop being carebears and start fighting eachother - after years of bot-mining, they have the ships!
Azelor Delaria Error-404 78	Posted - 2011.11.13 03:44:00 - [29] - Quote Large Collidable Object wrote: Not arguing with the OP in regards of the 'moving highsec players to lowsec' - you may be right, you may be wrong - I don't really care. You wont get anyone who just wants to watch his space-aquarium into null- or lowsec space - period. However, null and lowsec are not fine. I currently have most of my actual characters parked in highsec, yet I used to do lots of pvp, spent most of my time in 0.0 and lowsec and loved pvp, but as that's of no concern to this thread, I'll keep the reasons why I don't anymore to myself. As opposed to most people in GD, my concern isn't converting highsec bears into nullsec bears, but making game mechanics in low/0.0 fun for those actually interested in pvp. Liked this post. The OP pretty much hit it on the head. Go to low sec and lose a ship, many of the pirates tell you to stay in high sec (or next time, bring an expensive ship for them to kill!). Do this enough, and people become jaded to the idea of going through low sec. Go to null sec, and the first bubble camp kills your ship, pods you, then sends you a letter telling you to stay in high sec (or next time, bring an expensive ship for them to kill!). The problem may be some mechanics, but I don't believe it to be as massive as the attitude of the players. Many, like me, play to have fun. I stay in high sec with the occasional foray into low to bait a few pirates. I view high sec as a way to make money, as well as to PvP. Tell me, what is PvP in this game? Currently, it is whoever bring the biggest blob. In null sec, this means whoever drops the most supercaps. In low, it's a combination of capitals and logistics, as well as willingness to pirate. High sec is different. There, you can't GCC without CONCORD showing up and popping you. It limits the actions of the blob, because those blobs are ineffective. You're sure to be seen by competent players in neighboring systems, and because of this small gang tactics become much more effective. Yes, logistics become an issue, but not fighting on a station usually limits the effectiveness. In high sec, tactics can be tried to honed. Error-404 is a PvP corporation that *specialized* in small-gang PvP. We will never have the numbers to go toe-to-toe with Ad0pt. if it was us versus them. We prefer to take a few ships and fight. Do we use logistics? We try not to, but we have the ability to. That is the equalizer. In high sec, numbers do not make the win. Intelligence does. However, high sec is slowly being demolished. It used to be (when I started playing, at least) that PvP was not an option. It would find you eventually, like it or not. War decced? Join an alliance, or leave it to lose the dec (or transfer it and have allies!). Or drop corp. There are outs, and there shouldn't be. By making it so you can dec shield legitimately, or join/leave an alliance to lose a dec, PvP becomes less and less. High sec certainly does become that carebear land groups like EVE University have dreamed of. I've said it many times before: EVE University does not teach PvP. The real teachers are the pirate corporations who specialize in small-gang tactics. In high sec, corporations like Error-404 are teachers, because we will show you where you screwed up, and how to fix it. But we are dying out. These small-gang corporations and alliances are being told to get the hell out of this game, or join up with a blobbing group. How is that fair to us? Why does PvP have to be centered squarely around numbers?
mkint 323	Posted - 2011.11.13 03:46:00 - [30] - Quote Parsee789 wrote: Why should CCP waste time and resources trying to "fix" nullsec when there are much more pressing concerns in the game. Because if they don't, EVE will die. Quickly. The only "end game" in the game is a dead end. Quote: Stella Dust wrote: Parsee789 wrote: There's no way you can expect how people will behave and react. You can't blame CCP for what has happened to nullsec and trying get the player to play in a certain way will not work for CCP, they'll just quit. That's where you're wrong, you can account for human behaviour, it's not as individual as individuals at least when it comes down to a conrtolled environment and a game is just that. People should be aware and accept the consequences of their own actions. CCP did not tell you or force you to create absurdly large mega alliances surrounded by blues with hordes of RMT bots. That was of YOUR OWN DOING. Its called RESPONSIBILITY AND LIABILITY. If you can't accept that then HTFU. Nullsec is designed to only work with napfests and RMT bots. By it's very design, that's the audience it caters to. If you don't take part, you will not succeed. It's a design issue. Nullsec is poorly designed. CCP is not obligated to change that design, no, it's their game. Of course, it's my MasterCard, and I'm not obligated to keep paying a sub. And that's why I'm more interested in the summer expansion than the winter expansion. Although, what I'd really like to see is to extend w-space with short ranged player-built destructible low EHP stargates (planets only, no POS gun defense.) Make a way for non-nullsec alliances to finance the supers to challenge the Grayscale-RMT-friends, but in a way that makes their w-space empires indefensible.

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