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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 3 post(s) |
Nex Killer
Drunk3n Industry
51
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Posted - 2014.03.21 01:02:00 -
[31] - Quote
Rahh Serves wrote:why instant compressing i have the felling the pos module should need a fair amount of time and the rorqual should be the choice if you want fast compression
I made a post about that in the blog. The compression shouldn't be immediate like they said in the blog. It should still take time for the compression to happen. The PoS mod should using a fuel like heavy water and I say take 2x longer then a Rorqual. Here the post I put in the blog:
Nex Killer wrote:I don't like the change with the compression being immediate, time and a fuel should still be involved with compression. As of just now to compress 250 blocks of ice with a 8 PE BPO is 2 hours and 44 minutes and about 3 hours and 40 minutes with a unresearch BPO and *not at home so can't see how much heavy water used*. Why not make it so the Rorq can compress faster then this new PoS mod? Like the Rorq could compress 250 blocks of ice in an 2 hours and the PoS Mod take 4 hours. Plus this way you could make an Industrial Core II that makes the compress even faster for the Rorq so that 250 blocks of ice only take an hour and 30 minutes, this would give people a reason to buy and use Rorqs. Plus why did you guys make an PoS mod for compression and not make the Orca into a mini Rorq? I mean the model of the Orca looks like it would be easy todo.
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Zifrian
Licentia Ex Vereor Black Core Alliance
1424
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Posted - 2014.03.21 01:23:00 -
[32] - Quote
Rahh Serves wrote:why instant compressing i have the felling the pos module should need a fair amount of time and the rorqual should be the choice if you want fast compression
I agree with that as well. GÇ£Any fool can criticize, condemn, and complain - and most fools do. GÇ¥ - Dale Carnegie
Maximze your Industry Potential! - Download EVE Isk per Hour! |
Adoris Nolen
Sama Guild
48
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Posted - 2014.03.21 04:34:00 -
[33] - Quote
I welcome the changes to pos industry but I'm a bit surprised they didn't just switch high sec numbers to null outposts and vice versa. Would have made more sense, more risk = more profit. |
Lord LazyGhost
The Bastards The Bastards.
339
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Posted - 2014.03.21 10:53:00 -
[34] - Quote
seems like the price of Caps and super caps going to go up a **** ton. if you can only get 86% mierals back from reprocessing. thats a message isk loss compared to compressing atm |
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
2924
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Posted - 2014.03.21 11:37:00 -
[35] - Quote
Lord LazyGhost wrote:seems like the price of Caps and super caps going to go up a **** ton. if you can only get 86% mierals back from reprocessing. thats a message isk loss compared to compressing atm
I think you missed that the minerals in a batch have been increased.
Right now, if you have perfect refining skills (as in actually perfect. All three at 5) and a +4 implant, you get pretty much the same back in highsec.
If you have an upgraded outpost in null, you can do better.
If you have a POS you can do better.
The following sheets may be of interest.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Rztizv7FJOTyS1KqTorge0YtRpY60Lp_bzSnWhmaRDo/edit?usp=sharing https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1mZSNGLaxi1A-Q818nApcJ2kNJOfnJmhcAcYn-mulzEU/edit?usp=sharing
(Yes, compression is taking a hit. Best you'll manage is between 2000 and 2400 units of minerals per M3) Steve Ronuken for CSM 9! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4236322 http://www.fuzzwork.co.uk/ Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter |
Kijyat
InterSun Freelance Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
1
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Posted - 2014.03.21 12:25:00 -
[36] - Quote
I am upset by this change. Nothing in these changes benefit the hi sec player. I enjoy playing in hi sec and already have maxed all resource processing & production tree skills. I worked hard grinding out station standings and feel I earned the 100% refine. Now I have to lose a mission running implant and get a resource processing implant just to fall short of perfect refine. I feel cheated by CCP yet again.
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Caerfinon
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
115
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Posted - 2014.03.21 12:38:00 -
[37] - Quote
Many thanks for these. Excellent work as per usual :)
Cheers C. |
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
2925
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Posted - 2014.03.21 13:21:00 -
[38] - Quote
Kijyat wrote:I am upset by this change. Nothing in these changes benefit the hi sec player. I enjoy playing in hi sec and already have maxed all resource processing & production tree skills. I worked hard grinding out station standings and feel I earned the 100% refine. Now I have to lose a mission running implant and get a resource processing implant just to fall short of perfect refine. I feel cheated by CCP yet again.
Welcome to the world of jump clones
I mean, you're not going to have the same set of implants for mining and missioning, right? Steve Ronuken for CSM 9! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4236322 http://www.fuzzwork.co.uk/ Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter |
Kijyat
InterSun Freelance Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
1
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Posted - 2014.03.21 14:06:00 -
[39] - Quote
Like several other hi sec players, I mine during missions then refine. Jump clone cool downs make it not applicable during running missions and I run missions several times a day. I already have a 100% refine at several stations. CCP will force players like me to get an expensive implant for my "JC" or prime and still not get the 100% refine that I already have earned through skill mastering and faction grinding. |
Batelle
Tymast Industries 150th
2320
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Posted - 2014.03.21 14:15:00 -
[40] - Quote
Kijyat wrote:I am upset by this change. Nothing in these changes benefit the hi sec player. I enjoy playing in hi sec and already have maxed all resource processing & production tree skills. I worked hard grinding out station standings and feel I earned the 100% refine. Now I have to lose a mission running implant and get a resource processing implant just to fall short of perfect refine. I feel cheated by CCP yet again.
If you actually maxed them even though it was not required for a perfect refine, then you are now among a much smaller group of people with really good refining skills. There will be an initial demand for refiners as everyone else tries to catch up to you. You could make some isk off this.
I don't think people understand the implications of this change. Since crunched ore will now replace 425mm railguns for transporting minerals, ore refined at high-efficiency nullsec stations can only be used to build in nullsec. Ore that comes in from nullsec will have to be refined at hisec refineries and poses anyway. People that buy tritanium in empire will be using it to build, while people that are buying trig/mex for capital production will purchase the ore directly. IMO this is a big buff to miners all around. "CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"
Never forget. |
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Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
2677
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Posted - 2014.03.21 14:20:00 -
[41] - Quote
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:My "ugh" was for the needless complexity and length of the article.
I just have better things to do than trying to parse and understand with exactitude all that this implies (pretty much happens with every Dev Blog the past few years IMHO).
Obfuscation through overwhelming abundance of information, most indeed. Then don't read the dev blog. Wait for the patch notes.
Luna Deos wrote:That said, the statistician in me doesn't like the the idea of something like 86.8% (perfect station, perfect skills, perfect implants) being the new "100%". It just means there's always a factor of loss, which you would expect from a refining process. It also gives scope for future improvements without having to tweak the values again. The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. |
Vartan Sarkisian
Reasonable People Of Sound Mind
144
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Posted - 2014.03.21 14:51:00 -
[42] - Quote
OK could someone confirm please as my maths aint so great,
Currently I have refining to V and refinery efficiency to IV which means if I have say Veldspar trained to IV I currently get 108.9% (or perfect refine) at a 50% station with standings of 6.67
After the nerf I will only get 69.8% of the minerals back that I refine in the same station, which is actually about 20% LESS than if I had Refining, Efficiency and Ore Skill at zero right now..
I donGÇÖt think an implant should be a necessity for getting (not even perfect) refine, I think that if anything if I have Refining, Efficiency and Ore Skill at V I should get perfect refine, after all I cannot train them any more than that. I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser gate. All those moments will be lost in time... like tears in rain... Time to die. |
Ginger Barbarella
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
1891
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Posted - 2014.03.21 15:00:00 -
[43] - Quote
This is complete horse-crap... Not enough bugs in EveO to concentrate on, they need to cater to EVEN MORE nullie whining and give them yet another advantage.
Hey, CCP: just eliminate high-sec altogether. Be done with it, and quit screwing around. This latest nerf is just expletive deleted rediculous. "Blow it all on Quafe and strippers." --- Sorlac |
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
2925
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Posted - 2014.03.21 15:20:00 -
[44] - Quote
Vartan Sarkisian wrote:OK could someone confirm please as my maths aint so great,
Currently I have refining to V and refinery efficiency to IV which means if I have say Veldspar trained to IV I currently get 108.9% (or perfect refine) at a 50% station with standings of 6.67
After the nerf I will only get 69.8% of the minerals back that I refine in the same station, which is actually about 20% LESS than if I had Refining, Efficiency and Ore Skill at zero right now..
I donGÇÖt think an implant should be a necessity for getting (not even perfect) refine, I think that if anything if I have Refining, Efficiency and Ore Skill at V I should get perfect refine, after all I cannot train them any more than that.
Bear in mind, the quantities of minerals in Ores have been increased by around 38%. It balances out at full skill + implant. Steve Ronuken for CSM 9! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4236322 http://www.fuzzwork.co.uk/ Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter |
Shoogie
Serious Pixels
72
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Posted - 2014.03.21 15:33:00 -
[45] - Quote
Vartan, you missed that they increased the minerals in each batch of ore to compensate for the inefficiency. So 10000m3 of veldspar is going to refine to the same amount of tritanium before and after the patch. (Plus or minus a few tenths of a percent because integers.)
The second thing I think so many people are missing is with ubiquitous ore compression, that compressed ore will be the new default method for transporting minerals around the universe.
I'm not a miner, I'm a manufacturer. After this patch, I will be putting up buy orders for COMPRESSED ORE, not minerals. If miners refine it to tritanium, it is going to be more of a hassle to haul around.
So all the miners who are complaining that they need to get perfect refining skills... no please don't do that! I guarantee that lots of people will be happy to buy, compress, and refine your ores for you for prices comparable to the base minerals. |
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
2677
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Posted - 2014.03.21 15:40:00 -
[46] - Quote
Steve Ronuken wrote:Vartan Sarkisian wrote:OK could someone confirm please as my maths aint so great,
Currently I have refining to V and refinery efficiency to IV which means if I have say Veldspar trained to IV I currently get 108.9% (or perfect refine) at a 50% station with standings of 6.67
After the nerf I will only get 69.8% of the minerals back that I refine in the same station, which is actually about 20% LESS than if I had Refining, Efficiency and Ore Skill at zero right now..
I donGÇÖt think an implant should be a necessity for getting (not even perfect) refine, I think that if anything if I have Refining, Efficiency and Ore Skill at V I should get perfect refine, after all I cannot train them any more than that. Bear in mind, the quantities of minerals in Ores have been increased by around 38%. It balances out at full skill + implant. This. Currently if you put in half the effort, you get max refine and that's that. Going forward you'll need to put in all the effort, like the other professions, to achieve the same level of results. This means that reprocessing is an actual trade rather than an extra week of training on the side for another profession.
It's easy to get caught up thinking "*gasp* I'll not reach 100%!", but then noone will. It's been left with a level of wastage, which make sense from a realism point of view, and leaves scope for further improvements (drugs to boost reprocessing for example could become a thing).
Ginger Barbarella wrote:This is complete horse-crap... Not enough bugs in EveO to concentrate on, they need to cater to EVEN MORE nullie whining and give them yet another advantage.
Hey, CCP: just eliminate high-sec altogether. Be done with it, and quit screwing around. This latest nerf is just expletive deleted rediculous. 1. Waah. Cry more. 2. Null sec takes effort and isk constantly to keep it functioning. Why should it be barely on par with high sec, where everything is free? People should be encourages to push out into riskier areas, and if you don't want the risk, that's fine, but don't cry when you don't get the rewards. 3. That said, Null takes a big hit too, because reprocessing of modules is going to be so wasteful. Rat loot will now be halved in value. On top of that, ore compression will now be a thing in high sec allowing you to compress your ore pre-refine and sell it to null players for a shade over null refine values which in fact improves mining and removes the need for reprocessing the ore yourself. The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. |
Kaivar Lancer
Biological Mechanical Unlimited
450
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Posted - 2014.03.21 15:56:00 -
[47] - Quote
Can someone answer this question? I see that asteroids are getting a 38.1% buff. Does that mean, at 100% refining efficiency, I will end up with 38.1% more minerals than I currently get? |
Lucas Kell
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
2677
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Posted - 2014.03.21 16:21:00 -
[48] - Quote
Kaivar Lancer wrote:Can someone answer this question? I see that asteroids are getting a 38.1% buff. Does that mean, at 100% refining efficiency, I will end up with 38.1% more minerals than I currently get? Yes.
However, 100% refine will not be possible after the change. At maxed out refine you'll get about the same as you do now. The Indecisive Noob - A new EVE Fan Blog for news and stuff. |
Shoogie
Serious Pixels
72
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Posted - 2014.03.21 16:21:00 -
[49] - Quote
Refining is getting nerfed, so even with maxxed skills and an implant, nobody can get 100% refining anymore.
But that would be a big nerf to mining, and CCP does not want to nerf mining.
So they buffed the minerals in each ore, so that a character with maximum skills will get THE SAME minerals after the patch (though the display will show 80something% efficient) as they do today (when the display shows 100% efficient.) |
Elena Thiesant
Sun Micro Systems
1285
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Posted - 2014.03.21 16:22:00 -
[50] - Quote
Kaivar Lancer wrote:Can someone answer this question? I see that asteroids are getting a 38.1% buff. Does that mean, at 100% refining efficiency, I will end up with 38.1% more minerals than I currently get?
You won't have 100% refining efficiency. With max skills and an implant you'll have at best around 72% (check dev blog for exact figures) which means you'll be getting pretty much the same minerals as before (less if you don't have max skills and an implant, more if you refine at a POS or outpost) |
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Mustis Haul
La Punition
12
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Posted - 2014.03.21 16:43:00 -
[51] - Quote
Meh... |
Vartan Sarkisian
Reasonable People Of Sound Mind
144
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Posted - 2014.03.21 16:44:00 -
[52] - Quote
I did note the increase in yield, all that will do is fill the hold of your mining ships faster wouldn't it?
At the moment my skills are
Refining V Refining Efficiency IV Most Ores IV
So currently in high sec, in my 50% station with 6.67 standings, I get 100% refine, lovely, love it. Fair enough it is unbalanced and they want me to train some more in order to GÇ£earnGÇ¥ the right to perfect refine, only ill never get it.
I undock a retriever and fill 27000m3 of ore, post nerf it will just take less time to fill (yield bonus), I take it back to that station and currently I get 0% waste, post nerf my wastage is 27.6% which those same skills because they only give me 72.4 refine, and this is even if I have made that commitment and trained everything to V
So IGÇÖve put in the effort, IGÇÖve trained everything to V and am rewarded with a refine rate that is less than if I have everything trained to I currently.
Ill admit I know nothing about compression, and I may have this wrong, but even if I have compressed ore, I still have to refine it donGÇÖt I, and id still be subject to getting only 72.4% out of it. ItGÇÖs just the ore doesnGÇÖt take up as much space to take it to the place you want to refine it? I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser gate. All those moments will be lost in time... like tears in rain... Time to die. |
Elena Thiesant
Sun Micro Systems
1286
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Posted - 2014.03.21 16:47:00 -
[53] - Quote
Vartan Sarkisian wrote:I did note the increase in yield, all that will do is fill the hold of your mining ships faster wouldn't it?
More minerals refined from the same ore volume fills up a ore hold faster?
Quote:but even if I have compressed ore, I still have to refine it donGÇÖt I
No. You could sell it compressed to someone who is happy to pay a decent rate because they can refine at a higher rate than you can, because they have a POS or are transporting the ore to low/null |
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
2925
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Posted - 2014.03.21 16:50:00 -
[54] - Quote
Vartan Sarkisian wrote:I did note the increase in yield, all that will do is fill the hold of your mining ships faster wouldn't it?
you didn't read it then.
It's an increased yield on /refining/.
So that 72%? it's equal to the 100% you were getting before. Steve Ronuken for CSM 9! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4236322 http://www.fuzzwork.co.uk/ Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter |
Vartan Sarkisian
Reasonable People Of Sound Mind
144
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Posted - 2014.03.21 16:55:00 -
[55] - Quote
Steve Ronuken wrote:Vartan Sarkisian wrote:I did note the increase in yield, all that will do is fill the hold of your mining ships faster wouldn't it?
you didn't read it then. It's an increased yield on /refining/. So that 72%? it's equal to the 100% you were getting before.
Sorry Steve, but doesn't this image show a refine of 72.6% for all at V skills - http://cdn1.eveonline.com/www/newssystem/media/65852/1/Reprocessingrates.png I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser gate. All those moments will be lost in time... like tears in rain... Time to die. |
Elena Thiesant
Sun Micro Systems
1286
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Posted - 2014.03.21 17:00:00 -
[56] - Quote
Yes, the max is 72.4 % No, the increase in yield has nothing whatsoever to do with mining The increase in yield is an increase in the amount of minerals you could get from a batch of ore with 100% refining.
Now, since no one's going to have 100%, those two mostly cancel out leaving miners mining exactly the same ore they were beforehand and refiners getting almost the same minerals out of the ore when they refine (subject to their skills, implants and where they are refining)
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Vartan Sarkisian
Reasonable People Of Sound Mind
144
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Posted - 2014.03.21 17:03:00 -
[57] - Quote
OK, I think I understand it a little more now, thanks for being patient :) I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser gate. All those moments will be lost in time... like tears in rain... Time to die. |
Susan Black
KA POW POW Inc Late Night Alliance
114
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Posted - 2014.03.21 17:37:00 -
[58] - Quote
Simply put, imagine if every time you bought a carton of eggs, you had to throw one out due to it being rotten.
Then, some of the chickens get sick, decreasing the quality of eggs even more.
The BAD news is, every carton of eggs you buy you have to throw out TWO eggs now. The good news is, the egg companies started selling eggs in cartons of 13 instead of cartons of 12 to compensate.
Either way, you're bringing home 11 good eggs, even if you're throwing more away every time you buy a carton.
It's the same with this change. You get more waste, but you have more to waste so it works out the same as before. www.gamerchick.net Follow me on Twitter! @gamerchick42 |
Ekaterina 'Ghetto' Thurn
Department 10
133
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Posted - 2014.03.21 18:13:00 -
[59] - Quote
Luna Deos wrote:Nalelmir Ahashion wrote:Ok so we need [...] In order to get 2.8% LESS minerals? massive timesink.... I get 0.07% less, but yes. You're pretty much there. Looks like it's a way to make those spec skills have actual value, or a way to bring highsec to the same needs as null, since I had to train these all to 5 long ago. Edit: My calculations included the +4% implant as well.
The ore processing skills already had value in that lvl 4 is needed to use T2 mining crystals. Many of the comments CCP has made in the blog regarding skill names, perfect refine, and skill requirements are illogical and/or inaccurate. Refining isn't the same as reprocessing or recycling. Don't be surprised if we see a dumbing down of the skill requirements to use T2 strip miners and T2 crystals next. |
Shoogie
Serious Pixels
73
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Posted - 2014.03.21 19:38:00 -
[60] - Quote
Ekaterina 'Ghetto' Thurn wrote:The ore processing skills already had value in that lvl 4 is needed to use T2 mining crystals. Many of the comments CCP has made in the blog regarding skill names, perfect refine, and skill requirements are illogical and/or inaccurate. Refining isn't the same as reprocessing or recycling. Don't be surprised if we see a dumbing down of the skill requirements to use T2 strip miners and T2 crystals next.
I really hope that is true.
For all the high sec miners out there, this is very important: The people who buy most of the minerals today, that is capital manufacturers and high volume producers, will want to buy ORE after the patch. They are not going to want to buy raw minerals.
So now refining will be a separate profession from mining. It will require long training of skills. But as a miner, you don't need to refine anymore, because many producers are going to be competing to get your ore.
Now, as a producer, I need to get better refining on one of MY alts. |
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