Lowsec cap builder here.

I see the TLDR here being that caps will be built in null at a cost which will consume most/all of my margin and then be jumped into low for sale.

Making my main activity in Eve no longer really worth the bother.

Fair enough then I guess.

my spreadsheet shows how much ore you need to refine in order to get your investment in the different kinds of refinery upgrades and outposts back. you need to factor in the other upgrade options you have if you want to decide which outpost you actually want to build.

OK, since I've only ever been a lowly High Sec miner and therefore without the privilege of a Rorqual or POS actually can someone please explain to me the benefit of compression? I'm picking it's because of the obvious compressing allows more in one area yeah?

What skills are needed for compression then if these changes are going to allow the possibility of high sec POS without jumping through hoops? I'd like to get a jump on. :-)

I always wanted to see outpost related costs, just for curiosity, but am too lazy to build a sheet for it as I enter my prices manually, and a lot of materials go into these items.

Do you have sheets that cover platform cost + material costs, and upgrade cost + material costs, to generate your sheet?

i was to lazy to do something exact so i used rounded estimates based on the material (taken from chruker) which i just entered into evepraisal

Snip.

If you have the maxed skills, the needed reputation, a %50 station and the +4 implant think of it this way.

Before the change = 32 degrees Fahrenheit
After the change = 0 degrees Celsius

You get the bpo's refunded and its done in the right-click menu.

On the Reprocessing Arrays can we get the reprocessing yield looked at again? Currently it looks like the numbers are at 52% and 54% which does not really create the incentive. If those numbers were 54% and 58% the incentive would be there and help to close the gap with Null.

Even 53% and 56% would help.

snip

If anything, CCP hasn't gone far enough in boosting null industry.

[quote=Emiko Rowna]Until now I assumed that refinery quality went from High-Sec (50%) > POS (52/54%) > Outpost (60%).

But the POS figure is a fixed number, right? So the 54% is the max yield, regardless of skills? While High Sec gets a max of 72,4%. So that means the POS is still crap to reprocess at or am I understanding this wrong?

No, POS will reprocess like you had max skills + implant, so max possible reprocessing for ore and ice will be:
NPC station - 72.36%
HS POS - 75.25%
LS POS - 78.15%
upgraded outpost - 86.83%

(probably) due to old POS code, POS will always yield max results regardless of skills and will be an obvious choice for all HS and LS areas.

So you are saying a non skilled player will get max results from a POS? I did not know that and find it a bit odd.

So you are saying a non skilled player will get max results from a POS? I did not know that and find it a bit odd.

I did note the increase in yield, all that will do is fill the hold of your mining ships faster wouldn't it?

At the moment my skills are

Refining V
Refining Efficiency IV
Most Ores IV

So currently in high sec, in my 50% station with 6.67 standings, I get 100% refine, lovely, love it. Fair enough it is unbalanced and they want me to train some more in order to GÇ£earnGÇ¥ the right to perfect refine, only ill never get it.

I undock a retriever and fill 27000m3 of ore, post nerf it will just take less time to fill (yield bonus), I take it back to that station and currently I get 0% waste, post nerf my wastage is 27.6% with those same skills all trained to V because they only give me 72.4 refine, and this is even if I have made that commitment and trained everything to V

So IGÇÖve put in the effort, IGÇÖve trained everything to V and am rewarded with a refine rate that is less than if I have everything trained to I currently. I shouldn't have to use an implant to bump that up a little further.

Ill admit I know nothing about compression, and I may have this wrong, but even if I have compressed ore, I still have to refine it donGÇÖt I, and id still be subject to getting only 72.4% out of it. ItGÇÖs just the ore doesnGÇÖt take up as much space to take it to the place you want to refine it?

Can i ask what the point is of making the max refine 86%. A percent is based on 100% being the highest you can go so would that not make 86% 100%? Why change it from its current method, all its going to do is show people **** they arnt getting from refining and taunt them. I really dont understand this move.

86% gives them wiggle room for future improvements without rebasing everything down.

Can i ask what the point is of making the max refine 86%. A percent is based on 100% being the highest you can go so would that not make 86% 100%? Why change it from its current method, all its going to do is show people **** they arnt getting from refining and taunt them. I really dont understand this move.

There is one particular design problem with reprocessing: Currently you can reprocess at a perfect 100% rate uniformly across New Eden, regardless of system or station. As a result:

* It prevents us from giving low and null-security facilities some advantage: Player-built stations in null security space can only be, at their very best, equivalent with NPC stations that are spread all across New Eden.
* Perfect refine reduces the incentive to train most reprocessing skills, since itGÇÖs possible to get to the cap without maximizing them all. As an indirect consequence, it discourages players specializing in this particular activity.
* It limits a game designerGÇÖs ability to increase material composition on items when needed, as this would give players free stuff in the process. As an example, we were forced to add Extra Materials to most of the ships that have been through the Tiericide initiative (which by itself, added a lot of confusion for players engaged in Manufacturing).
*It devalues the Rorqual and its compression facilities as a whole, since modules exist with better compression ratios.

If it isn't broke don't fix it...

The way I read the dev statement CCP there are three reasons why they want to change the refining percentages.

1. Low and Null sec need refining advantages over Hi sec. Why? Reprocessing is a click of a button. I dont see the risk versus factor.

2. The Roqual is not competitive. So instead of fixing the Roqual to make it more competitive, CCP has chosen to reduce all the refining in the entire EVE universe to in order to help push the Roqual.

3. Players can get perfect refine without maxing skills/faction. While I agree this needs to be fixed, making it impossible to ever get 100% is ridiculous and the jedi mind trick of increasing the amount of ore refined to make it seem like players are getting 100% isn't working. Besides the reduction of waste factor there isnt any other reason for players to spend the time to get skills to level V.

In fact many skills in the game dont provide anything at level V. In my opinion this is what you should be working on. Give players a reason to max out their skills.

Perfect Refine at all Highsec stations is broken from a game balance POV.

Logic would suggest that better industrial refinements and techniques (ie, real research and development into techniques and infrastructure) would be available in a high population, "safer" environment, versus always-at-war, high risk environments for any kind of sustained settlement. Why would high sec, being safer and more populous, NOT have higher-end industry and manufacturing techniques than those available in nearly-nomadic, unstable, dangerous environments like out on the edges of space?

The logic of giving higher refining advantages to remote, dangerous, unstable, and lowly populated regions without the advantage of the brightest minds of industry is just plain dumb.