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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 184 post(s) |
dhunpael
1
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Posted - 2014.05.06 11:48:00 -
[151] - Quote
CCP FoxFour wrote:Hey guys,
as a heads up as soon as I can find the time I will be removing WH systems map/kills endpoint. This is data that exists in the API but not the client and is incredibly powerful. As with everything I am open to discussing this, but I will admit that you will have a damn hard time convincing me of not doing it. But that's only because we (the whole dwellers) don't have a nice ingame, ccp made map. The rest of the eve residents do have a map, in which case they can see the stats without a problem.
So to counter this problem we made our own maps, tools ander other whatnots =>
Bloemkoolsaus wrote:
Our wormhole mapper software relies on this information to determine the current status of the systems we are connected to. I would very much like to keep this information in the API as the information it provides is essential for us.
And now you are telling us we wrote our maps with info we should not have? Because it to powerfull? If that's really the case, maybe it should be removed from the game and not only whole space.
Come on think this over, we need this info as much as other eve players. We even worked for it, unlike non whole residents, we fiddled, tinckerd and tried untill we had our own tools and maps.
don't take that away from us ccp. |
dhunpael
1
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Posted - 2014.05.06 11:51:00 -
[152] - Quote
Also THIS =>
Max Kolonko wrote: And as such IT SHOULD BE DISCUSSED AT LEAST WITH WH REPRESENTATIVE ON CSM..
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CCP FoxFour
C C P C C P Alliance
3086
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Posted - 2014.05.06 11:58:00 -
[153] - Quote
Bloemkoolsaus wrote:CCP FoxFour wrote:as a heads up as soon as I can find the time I will be removing WH systems map/kills endpoint. Our wormhole mapper software relies on this information to determine the current status of the systems we are connected to. I would very much like to keep this information in the API as the information it provides is essential for us.
What do you mean by status? CCP FoxFour // Game Designer // @regnerba
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iskflakes
913
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Posted - 2014.05.06 12:01:00 -
[154] - Quote
CCP FoxFour wrote:Hey guys,
as a heads up as soon as I can find the time I will be removing WH systems map/kills endpoint. This is data that exists in the API but not the client and is incredibly powerful. As with everything I am open to discussing this, but I will admit that you will have a damn hard time convincing me of not doing it.
You should not break tools people have already written.
At the very least this is an issue for the CSM, because these endpoints are widely used. - |
Sith1s Spectre
Rolled Out
970
|
Posted - 2014.05.06 12:03:00 -
[155] - Quote
CCP FoxFour wrote:Hey guys,
as a heads up as soon as I can find the time I will be removing WH systems map/kills endpoint. This is data that exists in the API but not the client and is incredibly powerful. As with everything I am open to discussing this, but I will admit that you will have a damn hard time convincing me of not doing it.
Could we at least get some discussion as to the reasons behind you think it's a powerul tool and discuss it with our WH CSM rather than just removing a valuable tool from WH space?
It's hard enough to get content in WH space without you removing tools we use to help us find it... Nothing to see here.... Move along
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Hidden Fremen
Lazerhawks
388
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Posted - 2014.05.06 12:05:00 -
[156] - Quote
CCP FoxFour wrote:Bloemkoolsaus wrote:CCP FoxFour wrote:as a heads up as soon as I can find the time I will be removing WH systems map/kills endpoint. Our wormhole mapper software relies on this information to determine the current status of the systems we are connected to. I would very much like to keep this information in the API as the information it provides is essential for us. What do you mean by status?
As in, is this system active? Are they going to be active? Snipped signature for inappropriate language - CCP Eterne |
Daimian Mercer
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
30
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Posted - 2014.05.06 12:05:00 -
[157] - Quote
CCP FoxFour wrote:Hey guys,
as a heads up as soon as I can find the time I will be removing WH systems map/kills endpoint. This is data that exists in the API but not the client and is incredibly powerful. As with everything I am open to discussing this, but I will admit that you will have a damn hard time convincing me of not doing it.
I think this is a mistake, as many others that use mapping tools that show this information. It has already been stated that this little bit of intel generates content (fights).
If you want to think of it in a more realistic matter - Scientists can right now detect and track "explosions" in space (Armageddon anyone lol). So it makes sense that in a universe as advanced as EVE that sensors could detect ship explosions. Now when ship jumps were removed from w-space It did make sense - realistically it would be hard to believe you could track a ships movements in a far away solar system in such a way you could tell when it left/entered a system versus simply losing track of it for a moment.
Keep w-space kill API end-points! Creator of Tripwire https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=320030&find=unread |
HTC NecoSino
Blackstar Privateers Disavowed.
99
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Posted - 2014.05.06 12:06:00 -
[158] - Quote
CCP FoxFour wrote:Bloemkoolsaus wrote:CCP FoxFour wrote:as a heads up as soon as I can find the time I will be removing WH systems map/kills endpoint. Our wormhole mapper software relies on this information to determine the current status of the systems we are connected to. I would very much like to keep this information in the API as the information it provides is essential for us. What do you mean by status?
Having the kill history gives us an idea if there will be people online in the next x hours, or were active x hours ago. The API pulls show kills over an hour ago, so even if we see activity as "now" it was really "an hour ago" and probably isn't active now. |
IAmSeannn
Blackstar Privateers Disavowed.
14
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Posted - 2014.05.06 12:07:00 -
[159] - Quote
CCP FoxFour wrote:Bloemkoolsaus wrote:CCP FoxFour wrote:as a heads up as soon as I can find the time I will be removing WH systems map/kills endpoint. Our wormhole mapper software relies on this information to determine the current status of the systems we are connected to. I would very much like to keep this information in the API as the information it provides is essential for us. What do you mean by status?
NPC/PVP kills recently = explore the system cause people are clearly here. |
Keith Planck
Rolled Out
773
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Posted - 2014.05.06 12:08:00 -
[160] - Quote
CCP FoxFour wrote:But I will admit that you will have a damn hard time convincing me of not doing it.
INB4 the simultaneous cries of every pvp wormhole group in eve, convines you not to... aka Pony Lord Planck |
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RudinV
Syndicate of Death BLOOD UNION
124
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Posted - 2014.05.06 12:09:00 -
[161] - Quote
dhunpael wrote:Also THIS => Max Kolonko wrote: And as such IT SHOULD BE DISCUSSED AT LEAST WITH WH REPRESENTATIVE ON CSM.. no, this is not a thing to discuss. For us ( wh pvpers) this intel is essential, we do need it everyday, its general channel to get information about pvp possibilities, so removing it...is like making PvE paradise for every cap group, and saying to PvPers: Hey guys, we do NOT care about you and your activities, we do not need you in wspace-go find other places for pvp. Before even thinking about removing this intel, remove local in some other areas, so we would have some place to leave, otherwise its just -11 accounts only from me. |
Keith Planck
Rolled Out
773
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Posted - 2014.05.06 12:11:00 -
[162] - Quote
RudinV wrote:dhunpael wrote:Also THIS => Max Kolonko wrote: And as such IT SHOULD BE DISCUSSED AT LEAST WITH WH REPRESENTATIVE ON CSM.. no, this is not a thing to discuss. For us ( wh pvpers) this intel is essential, we do need it everyday, its general channel to get information about pvp possibilities, so removing it...is like making PvE paradise for every cap group, and saying to PvPers: Hey guys, we do NOT care about you and your activities, we do not need you in wspace-go find other places for pvp. Before even thinking about removing this intel, remove local in some other areas, so we would have some place to leave, otherwise its just -11 accounts only from me.
Is taking all PvP out of wormholes and just making them PvE paradise isk printing factories really such a bad thing?
Think of how many more pvp ships nullsecers could afford... aka Pony Lord Planck |
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CCP FoxFour
C C P C C P Alliance
3086
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Posted - 2014.05.06 12:15:00 -
[163] - Quote
So lets answer a few questions:
Bloemkoolsaus wrote:Our wormhole mapper software relies on this information to determine the current status of the systems we are connected to. I would very much like to keep this information in the API as the information it provides is essential for us.
Your software relying on it is basically why we are doing this. This is information that you guys using software outside the game get a huge advantage over those who do not. CCP by design specifically did not include a map of WH space, and we specifically did not include this information in the client.
Earlier we removed jumps for WH systems from the API. Removing this was something that should have been done then.
Hidden Fremen wrote:Sounds like bull. Does CCP hate wormholes? It keeps getting ****** with, for the worst.
No.
Max Kolonko wrote:Here we go: while I have to agree that from clearly technicall standpoint this is correct - we cant see kills data on map for wspace, removing this data affects wspace gameplay and should looked at from game design viewpoint.
In wspace we have to strugle with a lot of issues to get content. We leave in barelly working posses, have to roll for hours to get pvp content, heavly rely on third-party apps to do basic stuff like knowing our conection map.
Information about kills lessen some burden of rage-rolling for pvp as we caj faster assess if given system is promising we we shoul spend time and scan chain from it or close it and roll more.
Ofc one can say that kill data only show past kills and its not guaranted to have anyone logged in still in that chain but its a filter kind off thing, something that slightly ease out hard life of wspace. And as such IT SHOULD BE DISCUSSED AT LEAST WITH WH REPRESENTATIVE ON CSM.
Also - during ff you said that you are thinkimg about providing all killmails trough api. Soooo that contraditcs this change. If you will get greej light for km's then what you are sayijg is this: I will not tell you how many kills where in this system, but this is a list of all 23 of them.
This was looked at from a design point of view, and it was the design department that agreed to this. I did not just have an idea while standing in the shower and then decide to do it without first consulting others.
This information helps only those who know how to access it, and it helps them in a dramatic way. This information is also counter to our design for WH space. This information is also primarily helpful to one group, the invaders while being incredibly counter helpful to the defenders.
This idea was also discussed with the CSM. I brought it up with the existing CSM briefly and after posting have been in chats with members of the upcoming CSM 9. So yea, thanks for thinking I didn't talk to anyone. :)
RudinV wrote:RMTers finnaly paid a bill to CCP or what? just cant find another reason for CCP to do it
See above, this information helps one side far more than the other, this information is not available in the client, and this information is counter to the design of WHs.
Andrew Jester wrote:Is there a chance to get some timetable instead of "whenever I have time"? Would be nice to have time to test some existing tools so that people aren't suddenly left with broken mappers.
I am currently hoping next week, but we will see if this discussion changes my mind.
iskflakes wrote:You should not break tools people have already written.
At the very least this is an issue for the CSM, because these endpoints are widely used.
Yes we very much should if we believe that it is counter productive. We have a history of breaking tools when we believe they have gone to far.
dhunpael wrote:But that's only because we (the whole dwellers) don't have a nice ingame, ccp made map. The rest of the eve residents do have a map, in which case they can see the stats without a problem. So to counter this problem we made our own maps, tools ander other whatnots => Bloemkoolsaus wrote:
Our wormhole mapper software relies on this information to determine the current status of the systems we are connected to. I would very much like to keep this information in the API as the information it provides is essential for us.
And now you are telling us we wrote our maps with info we should not have? Because it to powerfull? If that's really the case, maybe it should be removed from the game and not only whole space. Come on think this over, we need this info as much as other eve players. We even worked for it, unlike non whole residents, we fiddled, tinckerd and tried untill we had our own tools and maps. don't take that away from us ccp.
You don't have a nice in-game map because part of the design for WH space is that you do not. Giving those with access to the ability to create tools and advantage over those that do not is NOT what the API is for. While there are many cases of this being true elsewhere, this is a very big one.
To your point on this information being removed from all of space, and I will repeat this, this information was specifically designed NOT to be there for WH space. It is meant to be there for the rest of space. CCP FoxFour // Game Designer // @regnerba
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Hidden Fremen
Lazerhawks
388
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Posted - 2014.05.06 12:16:00 -
[164] - Quote
Keith Planck wrote:RudinV wrote:dhunpael wrote:Also THIS => Max Kolonko wrote: And as such IT SHOULD BE DISCUSSED AT LEAST WITH WH REPRESENTATIVE ON CSM.. no, this is not a thing to discuss. For us ( wh pvpers) this intel is essential, we do need it everyday, its general channel to get information about pvp possibilities, so removing it...is like making PvE paradise for every cap group, and saying to PvPers: Hey guys, we do NOT care about you and your activities, we do not need you in wspace-go find other places for pvp. Before even thinking about removing this intel, remove local in some other areas, so we would have some place to leave, otherwise its just -11 accounts only from me. Is taking all PvP out of wormholes and just making them PvE paradise isk printing factories really such a bad thing? Think of how many more pvp ships nullsecers could afford...
:::tinfoilhat:::
I'm really convinced that this stupid nerf to wspace are a product to cater to nullsec. It gives me that feeling like my government has been bought out and is puppeted... Snipped signature for inappropriate language - CCP Eterne |
Winthorp
Rolled Out
1617
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Posted - 2014.05.06 12:17:00 -
[165] - Quote
Sith1s Spectre wrote:CCP FoxFour wrote:Hey guys,
as a heads up as soon as I can find the time I will be removing WH systems map/kills endpoint. This is data that exists in the API but not the client and is incredibly powerful. As with everything I am open to discussing this, but I will admit that you will have a damn hard time convincing me of not doing it. Could we at least get some discussion as to the reasons behind you think it's a powerul tool and discuss it with our WH CSM rather than just removing a valuable tool from WH space? It's hard enough to get content in WH space without you removing tools we use to help us find it...
I really have to second this opinion, we rely on this information in our every day life to find our way through the unknown space, to take it away is the equal to taking away local chat in nullsec without any meaningful discussion from CCP. We literally use this information to decide how we spend our day, how we scan out a chain of WH's, whether or not we roll away an uninhabited chain to look for more inhabited space.
We already live in the unknown space don't make us completely blind living in it also, its just not worth the extra effort for no reward from us, it just wouldn't be anymore there is no other way i can put that.
This deserves some decent discussion on why you think it is too powerful for us to have and not just "will be removed when you have the time" and "you will have a hard time convincing me otherwise". Try actually asking the people that live in WH space that your one major change has the effect it will on our gameplay. (Insert witty signature here) |
Keith Planck
Rolled Out
773
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Posted - 2014.05.06 12:19:00 -
[166] - Quote
Time to go back to googledocs? aka Pony Lord Planck |
Hidden Fremen
Lazerhawks
388
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Posted - 2014.05.06 12:22:00 -
[167] - Quote
CCP FoxFour wrote:This information helps only those who know how to access it, and it helps them in a dramatic way. This information is also counter to our design for WH space. This information is also primarily helpful to one group, the invaders while being incredibly counter helpful to the defenders.
Ok, the thing is... while there are some that can exploit this better than most, the bears still make a hell of a lot of ISK farming wspace. If they lose a fleet once in a while because of this "exploit" then the've experience the risk versus reward phenomenon ubiquitous throughout Eve. Everyone knows wspace is rough territory. The bears know it's rough territory and have come and adapted anyway. Why make it this much easier for them? Snipped signature for inappropriate language - CCP Eterne |
Winthorp
Rolled Out
1617
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Posted - 2014.05.06 12:23:00 -
[168] - Quote
CCP FoxFour wrote:So lets answer a few questions: Bloemkoolsaus wrote:Our wormhole mapper software relies on this information to determine the current status of the systems we are connected to. I would very much like to keep this information in the API as the information it provides is essential for us. Your software relying on it is basically why we are doing this. This is information that you guys using software outside the game get a huge advantage over those who do not. CCP by design specifically did not include a map of WH space, and we specifically did not include this information in the client. .
So then when will you be making an ingame map function that actually works. Why is it other parts of the game are allowed to pull this info and more like jump data. Why is it nullsec is allowed to use out of game tools like dotlan that are supported by CCP?
Do you really expect us to go back to pen and paper maps? (Insert witty signature here) |
Bob Artis
Rolled Out
35
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Posted - 2014.05.06 12:23:00 -
[169] - Quote
Sounds like we need to go back to pencil and paper again guys. CCP doesn't like it when we use any tools that give us an advantage. |
Keith Planck
Rolled Out
773
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Posted - 2014.05.06 12:25:00 -
[170] - Quote
In all seriousness this change would have to be mirrored with a substantial decrease in the price of sleeper loot. aka Pony Lord Planck |
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CCP FoxFour
C C P C C P Alliance
3088
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Posted - 2014.05.06 12:27:00 -
[171] - Quote
Winthorp wrote:CCP FoxFour wrote:So lets answer a few questions: Bloemkoolsaus wrote:Our wormhole mapper software relies on this information to determine the current status of the systems we are connected to. I would very much like to keep this information in the API as the information it provides is essential for us. Your software relying on it is basically why we are doing this. This is information that you guys using software outside the game get a huge advantage over those who do not. CCP by design specifically did not include a map of WH space, and we specifically did not include this information in the client. . So then when will you be making an ingame map function that actually works. Why is it other parts of the game are allowed to pull this info and more like jump data. Why is it nullsec is allowed to use out of game tools like dotlan that are supported by CCP? Do you really expect us to go back to pen and paper maps?
OMG! WTF dude... this is removing the KILL COUNT! This has NOTHING to do with your ability to generate maps with siggy and such. i don't know where this confusion is coming from but yea... no... keep making your maps, thats fine, I don't care. Thats cool and everyone at CCP, that I have talked to, is cool with that.
What we are not cool with is you guys have the number of pvp kills, pod kills, and NPC kills for systems and the historical information on that.
Big difference. But yea, guess you can go back to pen and paper if you want.
Null sec is allowed to because by design that information should be there. By design this information should NOT be in WH systems. CCP FoxFour // Game Designer // @regnerba
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Sith1s Spectre
Rolled Out
971
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Posted - 2014.05.06 12:27:00 -
[172] - Quote
Will you be removing these features then from all other sections of space then aswell?
Why will you be removing this from WH space only? I don't believe you have answered this question properly yet. Nothing to see here.... Move along
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Daimian Mercer
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
31
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Posted - 2014.05.06 12:28:00 -
[173] - Quote
CCP FoxFour wrote:So lets answer a few questions: Bloemkoolsaus wrote:Our wormhole mapper software relies on this information to determine the current status of the systems we are connected to. I would very much like to keep this information in the API as the information it provides is essential for us. Your software relying on it is basically why we are doing this. This is information that you guys using software outside the game get a huge advantage over those who do not. CCP by design specifically did not include a map of WH space, and we specifically did not include this information in the client. Earlier we removed jumps for WH systems from the API. Removing this was something that should have been done then.
So your idea behind removing kill API data is because CCP's software design model is flawed and the people in charge do not want to spend money we pay you to play the game you developed that is missing client side code to display info you already have been tracking for 6 years. And your response is to remove this data from outside access so you don't have to spend money to fix the EVE client to show what the community has stepped up and done for you?
I think this is a prime example of why CCP as a company has continued to use it's own shortcoming as an excuse to avoid development expenses. Saying "We are removing it because we don't include it in the client" is a statement that should never be said to begin with.
Creator of Tripwire https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=320030&find=unread |
Winthorp
Rolled Out
1617
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Posted - 2014.05.06 12:29:00 -
[174] - Quote
CCP FoxFour wrote:Winthorp wrote:CCP FoxFour wrote:So lets answer a few questions: Bloemkoolsaus wrote:Our wormhole mapper software relies on this information to determine the current status of the systems we are connected to. I would very much like to keep this information in the API as the information it provides is essential for us. Your software relying on it is basically why we are doing this. This is information that you guys using software outside the game get a huge advantage over those who do not. CCP by design specifically did not include a map of WH space, and we specifically did not include this information in the client. . So then when will you be making an ingame map function that actually works. Why is it other parts of the game are allowed to pull this info and more like jump data. Why is it nullsec is allowed to use out of game tools like dotlan that are supported by CCP? Do you really expect us to go back to pen and paper maps? OMG! WTF dude... this is removing the KILL COUNT! This has NOTHING to do with your ability to generate maps with siggy and such. i don't know where this confusion is coming from but yea... no... keep making your maps, thats fine, I don't care. Thats cool and everyone at CCP, that I have talked to, is cool with that. What we are not cool with is you guys have the number of pvp kills, pod kills, and NPC kills for systems and the historical information on that. Big difference. But yea, guess you can go back to pen and paper if you want. Null sec is allowed to because by design that information should be there. By design this information should NOT be in WH systems.
You missed my point entirely, we literally keep or roll away chains based of this information, all day every day. Do you really think we only have mappers just so we don't get lost? (Insert witty signature here) |
iskflakes
913
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Posted - 2014.05.06 12:30:00 -
[175] - Quote
CCP FoxFour wrote:What we are not cool with is you guys have the number of pvp kills, pod kills, and NPC kills for systems and the historical information on that.
PVP and pod kills are both available via the zkillboard API, which includes historical data and is better than 95% accurate I would guess.
So it's just a question of NPC kills. - |
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CCP FoxFour
C C P C C P Alliance
3088
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Posted - 2014.05.06 12:30:00 -
[176] - Quote
Daimian Mercer wrote:CCP FoxFour wrote:So lets answer a few questions: Bloemkoolsaus wrote:Our wormhole mapper software relies on this information to determine the current status of the systems we are connected to. I would very much like to keep this information in the API as the information it provides is essential for us. Your software relying on it is basically why we are doing this. This is information that you guys using software outside the game get a huge advantage over those who do not. CCP by design specifically did not include a map of WH space, and we specifically did not include this information in the client. Earlier we removed jumps for WH systems from the API. Removing this was something that should have been done then. So your idea behind removing kill API data is because CCP's software design model is flawed and the people in charge do not want to spend money we pay you to play the game you developed that is missing client side code to display info you already have been tracking for 6 years. And your response is to remove this data from outside access so you don't have to spend money to fix the EVE client to show what the community has stepped up and done for you? I think this is a prime example of why CCP as a company has continued to use it's own shortcoming as an excuse to avoid development expenses. Saying "We are removing it because we don't include it in the client" is a statement that should never be said to begin with.
Again... no not at all. We want to remove it because by DESIGN we don't include this in the client. If we thought "hey, cool wish this information was in the client" we would add it to our backlog to get done and thank people who make the tools. These tools however go against our desired designs. Hence the change. CCP FoxFour // Game Designer // @regnerba
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Leon en Marland
Blue-Fire Pasta Syndicate
4
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Posted - 2014.05.06 12:31:00 -
[177] - Quote
CCP FoxFour wrote:So lets answer a few questions:
Your software relying on it is basically why we are doing this. This is information that you guys using software outside the game get a huge advantage over those who do not. CCP by design specifically did not include a map of WH space, and we specifically did not include this information in the client.
I'm sorry but what? So because the data from the api is used by a webtool which, fyi, everyone that has any sort fo presence in WSpace uses, you're going to remove it because it gives an advantage over..who exactly?
Other than nullbear daytrippers who would get 0 use out of the tool anyway, you could honestly use your same logic to ban Siggy.
This is a Removal-local-from-nullsec tier game change and from the sound of it it wasn't even discussed with any sort of Wspace entity, what's next, c5 sleepers no longer dropping blue loot? |
Sith1s Spectre
Rolled Out
971
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Posted - 2014.05.06 12:31:00 -
[178] - Quote
CCP FoxFour wrote:Winthorp wrote:CCP FoxFour wrote:So lets answer a few questions: Bloemkoolsaus wrote:Our wormhole mapper software relies on this information to determine the current status of the systems we are connected to. I would very much like to keep this information in the API as the information it provides is essential for us. Your software relying on it is basically why we are doing this. This is information that you guys using software outside the game get a huge advantage over those who do not. CCP by design specifically did not include a map of WH space, and we specifically did not include this information in the client. . So then when will you be making an ingame map function that actually works. Why is it other parts of the game are allowed to pull this info and more like jump data. Why is it nullsec is allowed to use out of game tools like dotlan that are supported by CCP? Do you really expect us to go back to pen and paper maps? OMG! WTF dude... this is removing the KILL COUNT! This has NOTHING to do with your ability to generate maps with siggy and such. i don't know where this confusion is coming from but yea... no... keep making your maps, thats fine, I don't care. Thats cool and everyone at CCP, that I have talked to, is cool with that. What we are not cool with is you guys have the number of pvp kills, pod kills, and NPC kills for systems and the historical information on that. Big difference. But yea, guess you can go back to pen and paper if you want. Null sec is allowed to because by design that information should be there. By design this information should NOT be in WH systems.
See, this is where we don't agree with you. I WANT to know if there has been NPC activity because it encourages our scouts to go look for things and to then try and shoot them.
What I do not want is for you to give people an even greater security and risk free environment to PVE in like CCP already has by having the instant sigs pop up on their overview.
Then WH space will turn into more farmers than content creators which is what we don't want. I honestly don't think you understand how much this will impact on WH space Nothing to see here.... Move along
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BayneNothos
United Electro-Magnetic Federation Business Alliance of Manufacturers and Miners
67
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Posted - 2014.05.06 12:33:00 -
[179] - Quote
CCP FoxFour wrote:Hey guys,
as a heads up as soon as I can find the time I will be removing WH systems map/kills endpoint. This is data that exists in the API but not the client and is incredibly powerful. As with everything I am open to discussing this, but I will admit that you will have a damn hard time convincing me of not doing it.
I'm 50/50 on this. This intel is great but it's way powerful information. I have a write up in the WH forums about my first carrier kill that came about purely because I decided to hang out in a WH after seeing a small, couple of npc bump on StaticMapper that indicated miners of some sort. Without it I wouldn't have hung around and may have missed it.
But by the same token, the fact that I as a hunter can tell what's happening from afar like that is extremely powerful. An up to date mapping tool gives you, what, an hour delay at most from someone in your chain doing something violent. And the fact that you can see exactly what said violence is from anywhere is very potent.
Can I suggest a halfway compromise. For wormholes just mark a straight yes/no for the hour tick, regardless of NPC, Ship or Pod. That way it's still an alert, content creation still happens, but we have to actually go see what it is. |
Andrew Jester
Rolled Out
177
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Posted - 2014.05.06 12:34:00 -
[180] - Quote
CCP FoxFour wrote:
Again... no not at all. We want to remove it because by DESIGN we don't include this in the client. If we thought "hey, cool wish this information was in the client" we would add it to our backlog to get done and thank people who make the tools. These tools however go against our desired designs. Hence the change.
Maybe they weren't initially intended, but look at the positives that've happened as a result of them being included. The backlash seems to show this is a major change.
WTB WH Space dev |
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