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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 184 post(s) |
Gnaw LF
AQUILA INC Verge of Collapse
651
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Posted - 2014.05.06 16:35:00 -
[331] - Quote
Andski wrote: "My targets should be deafblind sheep to my wolves. Let me tell you how much I hate free intel unless it provides me with a benefit"
Well, that is EvE Online for you little boy, don't like it? Don't play it. What sort of intel does a freighter on Jita un-dock gets before he is volleyed by a suicide gank squad? Life is tough in EvE, if someone wants to minimize their risk they need to be active and aware of hostiles in their system. |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
10661
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Posted - 2014.05.06 16:38:00 -
[332] - Quote
Gnaw LF wrote:Well, that is EvE Online for you little boy, don't like it? Don't play it. What sort of intel does a freighter on Jita un-dock gets before he is volleyed by a suicide gank squad? Life is tough in EvE, if someone wants to minimize their risk they need to be active and aware of hostiles in their system.
"my targets should be required to put a monumental amount of effort into defending themselves and minimal effort should be required to find them" Twitter: @EVEAndski
TheMittani.com: The premier source for news, commentary and discussion of EVE Online and other games of interest.-á |
Cue Who
Applied Agoraphobia
0
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Posted - 2014.05.06 16:39:00 -
[333] - Quote
The only thing this change does is make it easier to PvE. EVE has always maintained a balance between risk and reward, with WHs being the best ISK in the game, why are you decreasing risk? As it stands, it's too safe in W-Space already, now it's going to be even safer? As it stands, WHs are dead empty. There's a limited number of people who want to live in wormholes. Removing the ability to tell when a wormhole is active will make them even more empty. |
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CCP FoxFour
C C P C C P Alliance
3115
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Posted - 2014.05.06 16:39:00 -
[334] - Quote
Please move the disscussion about the WH NPC kills to this thread: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4558401#post4558401 CCP FoxFour // Game Designer // @regnerba
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Tetsuo Tsukaya
Doom Generation THE H0NEYBADGER
370
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Posted - 2014.05.06 16:42:00 -
[335] - Quote
Andski wrote:Gnaw LF wrote:Well, that is EvE Online for you little boy, don't like it? Don't play it. What sort of intel does a freighter on Jita un-dock gets before he is volleyed by a suicide gank squad? Life is tough in EvE, if someone wants to minimize their risk they need to be active and aware of hostiles in their system. "my targets should be required to put a monumental amount of effort into defending themselves and minimal effort should be required to find them"
"People care what goons have to say about creating content in wormholes, coming from such a credible position as not living in wormholes as well as having killed off all of their own content in their region of space" |
Jonny Baconbits
Blackstar Privateers Disavowed.
10
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Posted - 2014.05.06 17:02:00 -
[336] - Quote
Hidden Fremen wrote:
If you're gonna farm in wspace, use the tools to ensure your own "safety". How fuct does that sound? Changes to make farming Sleepers safer... What in the ****...
You know what this change is going to do instead? It's going to incentivize evictions again. I promise you.
Happy farmers are rich farmers. Can't say I disagree with Hidden Fremen here. Burning carebear systems to the ground might end up being more common. We'll get our tears one way or another. |
Alundil
Trader-Hoes
479
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Posted - 2014.05.06 17:06:00 -
[337] - Quote
CCP FoxFour wrote:[quotloemkoolsaus] CCP FoxFour wrote:as a heads up as soon as I can find the time I will be removing WH systems map/kills endpoint. Our wormhole mapper software relies on this information to determine the current status of the systems we are connected to. I would very much like to keep this information in the API as the information it provides is essential for us.
What do you mean by status?[/quote] Finding other pilots in wh space is already a chore even with the NPC kill info. That's content we're talking about. That's the info we need. We have a number of tools built over the years to make occupying wspace feasible (maps, etc).
Please explain the thought process behind wanting to remove this and breaking some player made tools that this community rely upon. Clone mechanics enchancements Deep Space Probe Revival |
Mike C
0
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Posted - 2014.05.06 17:09:00 -
[338] - Quote
CCP Prism X wrote:The fact that we screwed up and forgot to sanitize the API calls does not change that design. I don't think sanitize is quite the right word for that, but I digress:
Yes, actually, your mistake does change that design. Wormhole communities have grown and been significantly affected by this information for six years. Because of this your model, alledgedly not intending to have had this information, is inaccurate. To reconcile them either the model has to change or the game has to change.
The question is: can you account for and investigate the results of all of the changes this will cause? I seriously doubt you can, and I know there are members of the community several orders of magnitude better at it than you. After six years such a fundamental adjustment requires a bit more than "it's not what we wanted." |
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CCP FoxFour
C C P C C P Alliance
3120
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Posted - 2014.05.06 17:10:00 -
[339] - Quote
Please move the disscussion about the WH NPC kills to this thread: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4558401#post4558401 CCP FoxFour // Game Designer // @regnerba
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Longinius Spear
Doom Generation THE H0NEYBADGER
258
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Posted - 2014.05.06 17:13:00 -
[340] - Quote
People can't take the hint, you should lock this thread.
Read more of my ramblings on my blog www.invadingyourhole.blogspot.com |
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Alundil
Trader-Hoes
479
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Posted - 2014.05.06 17:15:00 -
[341] - Quote
CCP FoxFour wrote:So lets answer a few questions: Bloemkoolsaus wrote:Our wormhole mapper software relies on this information to determine the current status of the systems we are connected to. I would very much like to keep this information in the API as the information it provides is essential for us. Your software relying on it is basically why we are doing this. This is information that you guys using software outside the game get a huge advantage over those who do not. CCP by design specifically did not include a map of WH space, and we specifically did not include this information in the client. Earlier we removed jumps for WH systems from the API. Removing this was something that should have been done then.
Then by all means place 'your money where your mouth is' and break all api based market and industrial and PI tools under the same logic since they confer great advantage for those with the ability to use them over those without said ability.
It is exactly the same thing.
Clone mechanics enchancements Deep Space Probe Revival |
War Fairy
Cascading Failure Un.Bound
2
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Posted - 2014.05.06 17:16:00 -
[342] - Quote
fido goran wrote:CCP Prism X wrote:This is not data you have access to except through the API. Hence it should not be in the API. This goes for all data returned from it. The API is allowed to make your life easier, but it's not allowed to expose information you have no access to elsewhere. I can't for the life of me find in the client where the data is that shows me jump distances in numerical format between systems in light years. Don't forget to remove that data out of the API while you are going.
Apples and oranges.
Jump distances are publicly available in the SDE. |
mkint
1188
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Posted - 2014.05.06 17:16:00 -
[343] - Quote
Querns wrote:Domanique Altares wrote:CCP Prism X wrote: Well it's a situation you shouldn't accept quietly. No, it's clearly something that people should talk about ad-nauseum for the next six to seven years until CCP deigns to actually do something about it. very few people even knew it existed. That's so very very not true.
The topic comes up all the time in the Rookie Help channel where a rookie stumbles into w-space, or has found a WH and is thinking about going in. Several people give the advice "look up the WH in dotlan maps to get an idea of activity" as well as the obvious d-scan and class lookup and stuff.
I'm not arguing one way or the other, but if you're going to say something patently false, try harder not to get caught. Maxim 34: If you're leaving scorch-marks, you need a bigger gun. |
Bronya Boga
Rolled Out
330
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Posted - 2014.05.06 17:19:00 -
[344] - Quote
I understand why you are doing this and I think it brings back a bit of the mystery to wspace. I do have one big issue with this though. You are eliminating PVP assets (intel source) but you are keeping the PVE asset (discovery scanner) you are basically taking intel people have to invest in (isk, time, ect.) But not addressing the larger issue of free intel. I would argue that if you are cutting one finger might as well take the whole hand (intel that is accessed without work).
To CCP Foxfour. Im not too certain if you can work on adjusting the discovery scanner but if we look at raw power then it has a larger impact on how fights happen in wspace. If you would fix the discovery scanner I would welcome this change as it will reinforce the unknown feeling everyone has been missing for a long time. My opinion might be going agaisnt the masses but I hope they come to their senses.
TL;DR you have to work for intel, get rid of discovery scanner in wspace first /thread My Opinions are my own and do not reflect my corp Host of Down The Pipe-á www.downthepipe-wh.com Ingame Channel DTP Podcast |
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CCP Prism X
C C P C C P Alliance
1506
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Posted - 2014.05.06 17:21:00 -
[345] - Quote
Locking this temporarily to merge the discussion to here: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4558401#post4558401
See ya there! CCP Prism X Programmer Team Gridlock |
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ISD Ezwal
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
1281
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Posted - 2014.05.06 22:05:00 -
[346] - Quote
I have removed some rule breaking posts and those quoting them. As always I let some edge cases stay. Please people, keep it on topic and above all civil!
The Rules: 4. Personal attacks are prohibited.
Commonly known as flaming, personal attacks are posts that are designed to personally berate or insult another forum user. Posts of this nature are not beneficial to the community spirit that CCP promote and as such they will not be tolerated.
5. Trolling is prohibited.
Trolling is a defined as a post that is deliberately designed for the purpose of angering and insulting other players in an attempt to incite retaliation or an emotional response. Posts of this nature are disruptive, often abusive and do not contribute to the sense of community that CCP promote.
26. Off-topic posting is prohibited.
Off-topic posting is permitted within reason, as sometimes a single comment may color or lighten the tone of discussion. However, excessive posting of off-topic remarks in an attempt to derail a thread may result in the thread being locked, or a forum warning being issued.
ISD Ezwal Captain Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department |
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Locke DieDrake
The Arrow Project
15
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Posted - 2014.05.07 03:15:00 -
[347] - Quote
Winthorp wrote:CCP FoxFour wrote:So lets answer a few questions: Bloemkoolsaus wrote:Our wormhole mapper software relies on this information to determine the current status of the systems we are connected to. I would very much like to keep this information in the API as the information it provides is essential for us. Your software relying on it is basically why we are doing this. This is information that you guys using software outside the game get a huge advantage over those who do not. CCP by design specifically did not include a map of WH space, and we specifically did not include this information in the client. . So then when will you be making an ingame map function that actually works. Why is it other parts of the game are allowed to pull this info and more like jump data. Why is it nullsec is allowed to use out of game tools like dotlan that are supported by CCP? Do you really expect us to go back to pen and paper maps? You will literally kill WH space PVP overnight with this one change, i am not exaggerating when i say this. THIS IS A MASSIVE CHANGE.
Bit of a drama queen aren't you?
Your mapping software will work JUST FINE after this change, it just won't include NPC kills. Are you too dense to understand this, or are you so overly dependent on your out of game, immersion breaking tools that you just don't care? That's a serious question, because from where I'm sitting, you are basically screaming like a 4 year old that lost their lollipop, and it's not very constructive.
I came here basically neutral on the issue, but now I'm in favor of it, just because it pisses people like you off.
I'm a WH dweller, I shoot stuff. I can't possibly imagine this will change my game play in the slightest. |
Lenelluce
University of Caille Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2014.05.07 04:26:00 -
[348] - Quote
funny that everything goons cry about immediately gets changed |
Janeway84
Masters Of Destiny Pride Before Fall
82
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Posted - 2014.05.07 06:56:00 -
[349] - Quote
CCP FoxFour wrote:Hey guys, as a heads up as soon as I can find the time I will be removing WH systems map/kills endpoint. This is data that exists in the API but not the client and is incredibly powerful. As with everything I am open to discussing this, but I will admit that you will have a damn hard time convincing me of not doing it. Please continue this disscuission here: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4558401#post4558401
Dont do it! Its going to slow down finding pvp even more Its one of the few tools wh people use to find out if its worth their time to hang around a wh system to get some action.
I can understand from a lore perspective why you would do this but I think removing it is as bad as the ideas of wormhole stabilizer.
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TurboX3
V0LTA Triumvirate.
50
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Posted - 2014.05.07 07:35:00 -
[350] - Quote
CCP FoxFour - WHY BREAK THE GAME FOR HARD WORKING WORMHOLERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Are you bias and against the wh community?
Have you seen or used our 3rd part software/ mapping tools? No Trolling Please |
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Rob Crowley
State War Academy
296
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Posted - 2014.05.07 08:12:00 -
[351] - Quote
TurboX3 wrote:CCP FoxFour - WHY BREAK THE GAME FOR HARD WORKING WORMHOLERS!!!!!!!!!!!!! He's not changing the game, that's kinda the whole point of this thing that the game doesn't provide this info. If you want this info in the game ask one of the game designers, preferably in a thread in a more appropriate sub-forum though. Once the game designers have decided to put this info into the game, I'm sure FoxFour will add it to the API immediately.
Quote:Are you bias and against the wh community? Nah, he's against all Eve players equally, breaking everyone's game is all in a good day's work for him.
Also no irony. |
Lilli Tane
The Scope Gallente Federation
12
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Posted - 2014.05.07 08:58:00 -
[352] - Quote
This is funny, and at the same time very disappointing.
CCP announces they are going to fix one of the worst lore breaking bugs in the game, and the self-proclaimed elite PVP community goes in uproar against it.
It is funny since after all the bragging, in the end, all you really depend on is on tools that do all the info gathering for you and not on proper exploring or playing the game.
It is disappointing since I was expecting a better reaction from key figures from W-space.
But I guess the removal of the-i-win buttons always cause trouble.
Now, I suggest you guys go read a bit of the lore of this game you all say you love, so you can understand why having NPC kills API data is a bug and was just a freebie for all these years.
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Splodger
0utbreak Outbreak.
27
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Posted - 2014.05.07 09:50:00 -
[353] - Quote
Maybe without the useless crutch that is NPC kills / Jumps, PvPers will actually complain about real mechanics that will put real balance into risk that wormholes should bring.
Getting new sigs delayed by 30secs is far more productive than advocating for API information.
As it currently stands doing PVE in wormholes is far to safe.
Doing wh PvP is far to tedious and lacks enough reward for the effort because of the current mechanics. |
Irya Boone
Never Surrender.
349
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Posted - 2014.05.07 10:15:00 -
[354] - Quote
just right in the moment when goons put some alts.. B.ts in WH ... what a coincidence
Oh wait...
I don't believe in such things RENAME WH systems With the name of REAL Universe Stellar Name like KOI-730 etc etc It will be awesome.
GalMIl>>ALL |
Puiu Lucif
Kikkihiiri's Corporation of Madness
0
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Posted - 2014.05.07 11:03:00 -
[355] - Quote
It's a good change to help those who don't download 1000 tools to play the game. if it's not in the client then it should not exist. plain and simple. especially something that gives a big advantage in PvP.
Loved the way CCP devs managed to stay sane while reading all the reply posts. Keep up the good work and fly safe o7 ! |
King Fu Hostile
Imperial Collective Unsettled.
95
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Posted - 2014.05.07 11:43:00 -
[356] - Quote
Winthorp wrote:CCP FoxFour wrote:So lets answer a few questions: Bloemkoolsaus wrote:Our wormhole mapper software relies on this information to determine the current status of the systems we are connected to. I would very much like to keep this information in the API as the information it provides is essential for us. Your software relying on it is basically why we are doing this. This is information that you guys using software outside the game get a huge advantage over those who do not. CCP by design specifically did not include a map of WH space, and we specifically did not include this information in the client. . So then when will you be making an ingame map function that actually works. Why is it other parts of the game are allowed to pull this info and more like jump data. Why is it nullsec is allowed to use out of game tools like dotlan that are supported by CCP? Do you really expect us to go back to pen and paper maps? You will literally kill WH space PVP overnight with this one change, i am not exaggerating when i say this. THIS IS A MASSIVE CHANGE.
"why is it that wormhole space is different than k-space"
And yes, you are indeed exaggerating, it doesn't affect wh PVP in any way.
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Ideki
E.A.D Alliance Omega Vector
201
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Posted - 2014.05.15 17:33:00 -
[357] - Quote
One question for the PI API:
It returns only the changes that have been applied to a planet. right? Or do we have access to the changes in progress? Creator of The EVE Planetary Planner and The EVE Ships Skills Planner Author of Immortal Warriors |
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CCP FoxFour
C C P C C P Alliance
3228
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Posted - 2014.05.15 17:46:00 -
[358] - Quote
Ideki wrote:One question for the PI API:
It returns only the changes that have been applied to a planet. right? Or do we have access to the changes in progress?
The API will only show what you last saw in the client as the DB is only updated when you look at it in the client.
I hope that answers your question, I am not sure I understand it 100%. CCP FoxFour // Game Designer // @regnerba
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Ideki
E.A.D Alliance Omega Vector
201
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Posted - 2014.05.15 17:50:00 -
[359] - Quote
CCP FoxFour wrote:Ideki wrote:One question for the PI API:
It returns only the changes that have been applied to a planet. right? Or do we have access to the changes in progress? The API will only show what you last saw in the client as the DB is only updated when you look at it in the client. I hope that answers your question, I am not sure I understand it 100%.
Ok, let me try to clarify myself.
If I open the PI ingame, then make some changes (ex: change an Extractor program) but I do not validate it yet, then I do a request on the API.
What will I see in the API?
- The extractor as is was before the change ?
- The extractor as it is on my screen ?
From your answer I am guessing answer #1.
But still, the PI API is extremely useful for me. And I added some neat tricks to my tool for #2. So all in all I cover both sides Creator of The EVE Planetary Planner and The EVE Ships Skills Planner Author of Immortal Warriors |
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CCP FoxFour
C C P C C P Alliance
3228
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Posted - 2014.05.15 17:53:00 -
[360] - Quote
Ideki wrote:CCP FoxFour wrote:Ideki wrote:One question for the PI API:
It returns only the changes that have been applied to a planet. right? Or do we have access to the changes in progress? The API will only show what you last saw in the client as the DB is only updated when you look at it in the client. I hope that answers your question, I am not sure I understand it 100%. Ok, let me try to clarify myself. If I open the PI ingame, then make some changes (ex: change an Extractor program) but I do not validate it yet, then I do a request on the API. What will I see in the API?
- The extractor as is was before the change ?
- The extractor as it is on my screen ?
From your answer I am guessing answer #1. But still, the PI API is extremely useful for me. And I added some neat tricks to my tool for #2. So all in all I cover both sides
If by validate you mean submit... then yes #1. :) CCP FoxFour // Game Designer // @regnerba
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