I haven't abused anything. I don't live in wormholes. That's a nice try, though.

None of that, however, changes the fact that 'not being quiet' is virtually a useless expenditure of time. Even if CCP suddenly agrees that this information should be made available in the client, it is highly unlikely that it will happen anytime soon.

This is not data you have access to except through the API. Hence it should not be in the API. This goes for all data returned from it. The API is allowed to make your life easier, but it's not allowed to expose information you have no access to elsewhere.

I know you are trying to troll me, but yes, I would actually not have a problem if this info was available in system. While some people use the kill data to set up login traps, the vast majority of w-space players actually use it to guess if people in their current chain are about to log in and become active.

Of course, if it was exposed in the client in some way, folks like me would be asking for it to be put in the API so we don't have to copy and paste yet another thing when we are making our maps.



Sure, but what if you are locked out of the system, how can I see assets then?

e-honoure has nothing at all to do with it. CCP has created a system that is far, far, far too easy to farm with very little risk, and now they are talking about removing some of that risk. If they were to simultaneously also make sleeper farming harder to do, I would be far more accepting of this change, but without that, all this will do is encourage even more mostly nullsec alt farming corps to live in w-space. This is bead for all of us that actually live there, as we don't get fights from the farmers, we get ganks at best, and their farming injects trillions of ISK into the economy as well as decreasing the value of Sleeper salvage.

Hey guys,

as a heads up as soon as I can find the time I will be removing WH systems map/kills endpoint. This is data that exists in the API but not the client and is incredibly powerful. As with everything I am open to discussing this, but I will admit that you will have a damn hard time convincing me of not doing it.

It means that we get our intel from the small ammount of info available. Unlike null, our sources are very limited and we got very good at making the most of it. And you pretend to remove that.

You can't be locked out of a wormhole. You just have to roll holes until you get access back. Sure, that's a pain in the ass, but if we made "is a pain in the ass" relevant to these discussions, eve itself would be in a pretty bad place. :V

And, yes, e-honor has everything to do with it. Wormholers have created this weird film of entitlement that somehow makes it a sin to utilize wormhole space for making money; that only PvPers should live in wormhole space. This is your fabrication alone, based on a completely artificial set of social norms to which you subscribe. While you are free to attempt to enforce your social norms upon others however you see fit, seeing as wormhole space is 0.0 security and shooting others has no automatic retribution +í la CONCORD or gate guns, the game mechanics are also not beholden to enforce your social norms for you.

Allready in wh space you need to have many alts, having to drop a scout in every system if you want to see when farmers farms is just so much effort and might make just wonder

Wormhole space is uncharted territory

CCP can't "sneak in" changes; they have a DEV POSTS tracker at the top of the page that alerts every single person to their posts.

Also, you can still monitor your neighbors for activity without the API. It will just be more difficult after the change. One might go so far as to accuse detractors of this change of risk-aversion; now software can't inform you if there are unruly neighbors nearby. You will have to go and get that information yourself. Are you saying that the risk of w-space is to be lessened? Isn't that your whole schtick; that wormhole space is riskier and more difficult than k-space? Don't you want that assertion to be strengthened wherever possible?

I believe you misunderstood me, sir. The post I quoted was silly in my opinion. It is silly to propose that mistakes in the API should kick of a design change in EVE proper rather than be fixed in the API (that does not mean that said end result is silly, just the logic). It's silly to offer a solution only to state offhand that you will not be listened to. It's just a silly way to initiate a dialouge as you're basicly saying you do not want one. It's silly to be rude-ish (open to opinion and interpretation) to people you want listneing to you by claiming they're just trying to make your life difficult or do not know what they're talking about. When people behave silly around me in real life I tell them I find their behaviour silly. They can then chose to ask me what I mean or simply ignore the statement. At least they'll know why I'm no longer engaging them even though they do not agree with my assertion.

I fully understand that this changes things for some people so I'm absolutely not saying that any claims that this changes things are silly. Just that this specific post struck me as silly. No need for you to get offended on Valterra's behalf (unless you want to, then it's your right and I have no intention of infringing on that right).

It is silly to propose that mistakes in the API should kick of a design change in EVE.

It's silly to offer a solution only to state offhand that you will not be listened to.

It's silly to be rude-ish (open to opinion and interpretation) to people you want listneing to you by claiming they're just trying to make your life difficult or do not know what they're talking about.

They can then chose to ask me what I mean or simply ignore the statement.

So you "Elite Wormholers" have a tool that allows you to scan down 5 branches (or chains) 5 to 10 holes deep for a total of like 50 wormholes mapped straight to your wormhole at the epicenter.

Then you sit POS'd up waiting for one of your 50 wormholes to have some NPC data come through and down the chain you go to kill your prey like a spider on a web....

How is that not being a huge carebear? The rest of us would have to sit 50 people in those 50 wormholes ACTIVELY d-scanning to find prey.

You just sit all safe until you know someone's out PVE'ing and then you roll up with your PVP ships.

Wow....just wow. What cowards.

Hey guys,

as a heads up as soon as I can find the time I will be removing WH systems map/kills endpoint. This is data that exists in the API but not the client and is incredibly powerful. As with everything I am open to discussing this, but I will admit that you will have a damn hard time convincing me of not doing it.

Hey guys,

as a heads up as soon as I can find the time I will be removing WH systems map/kills endpoint. This is data that exists in the API but not the client and is incredibly powerful. As with everything I am open to discussing this, but I will admit that you will have a damn hard time convincing me of not doing it.

You obviously don't know how this works. You can't monitor neighboring systems in real time because this API endpoint already has a delay on TOP of the caching of data. So at best you will be 30 minutes late, at worse you will be an hour late. Which is all the time needed for many cap escalations. I am not even going to mention that before doing Sleeper sites anyone who is worth anything will collapse all incoming and outgoing connections, an action that cannot be seen in API or anywhere else. So yeah, this data is not used for Real Time fights.

Where this endpoint can be used is to setup logoff traps, without this data it would take forever to come across a group doing sites in w-space, then it will take days to stalk them to figure out their site running patterns and hours. Its too much work for too little reward while the bears will keep on killing sleepers in safety.

Thank you for sharing your extensive experience of wh life with us, irrelevant npc alt #49820

You obviously don't know how this works. You can't monitor neighboring systems in real time because this API endpoint already has a delay on TOP of the caching of data. So at best you will be 30 minutes late, at worse you will be an hour late. Which is all the time needed for many cap escalations. I am not even going to mention that before doing Sleeper sites anyone who is worth anything will collapse all incoming and outgoing connections, an action that cannot be seen in API or anywhere else. So yeah, this data is not used for Real Time fights.

Where this endpoint can be used is to setup logoff traps, without this data it would take forever to come across a group doing sites in w-space, then it will take days to stalk them to figure out their site running patterns and hours. Its too much work for too little reward while the bears will keep on killing sleepers in safety.

Just make sure that you disable auto signature update in wh space then.

I repeat: This is not data you have access to except through the API. Hence it should not be in the API. This goes for all data returned from it. The API is allowed to make your life easier, but it's not allowed to expose information you have no access to elsewhere.

I repeat: This is not data you have access to except through the API. Hence it should not be in the API. This goes for all data returned from it. The API is allowed to make your life easier, but it's not allowed to expose information you have no access to elsewhere.

If the lack of this information is causing you excessive grief that you need addressed then you're asking for a design change in EVE Online, the spaceship game. I'll freely admit that I, as a framework programmer, am in no situation to judge design suggestions on a professional basis. That's why I'm trying to refrain from passing judgement on any ideas proposed here. But whilst the data is not available for you in the client it cannot be available in the API.

That being sad I can fully sympathize if you feel like WH space lacks the tools to be all it can be. If you are relying on a third party tool to enjoy the game because the client is lacking: Well it's a situation you shouldn't accept quietly. But the API is not a backdoor to effect game design changes, and a programmer (me and FoxFour when he has his API hat on) is not the right person to make game design changes.

So I hope this explains at least that we're not doing this just to be difficult and make you people feel offended. But if that's still your opinion I'm afraid we'll simply have to agree to disagree on this.

Hey guy, when did this become the new CCP policy? Are you sure you want to go down this road with us because we will throw a laundry list of things that are not in the client?. How about this one mister smart ass developer, if you copy a Killmail of a Carrier from the client, none of the items in the Hangar are copied from the client. YET this data exists in the API. So how about them apples?

I can't for the life of me find in the client where the data is that shows me jump distances in numerical format between systems in light years. Don't forget to remove that data out of the API while you are going.

I can't for the life of me find in the client where the data is that shows me jump distances in numerical format between systems in light years. Don't forget to remove that data out of the API while you are going.