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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Eric carr
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Posted - 2006.05.04 18:19:00 -
[181]
I personally give a rat ass where MC lives and jabba jabba, I just stated a wierd scenario before, cuz i thought it was fun and i first typed mean it is my idea :P
But for the respect of the merc work building a base somewhere where not everyone not has access to is "taking" a political stand. You will of course raise the price cuz you can loose your "home". That makes the pricepicture a bit "twisetd". I saw your works against RA and all out of respect towards RA you werent needed. You sat the 0.0 gates stealing targets. What was the "big plan" behind that besides iskis and cheap ganks? I still dunno who hired you and have not much intresse in knowing it. the big plan talks is just a smokescreen to make it harder for clients that wants to hire you against BoB right? From BoB view i would apploude their deal, it is great, having the most established Mercs twisted around their fingers. Hell I would try to do it if i had the chance! I say, most of this whining wouldenŠt excist if you hadent built that base down in Period basis. If BoB just let you npc and mine in their space would been accepted by most players, cuz most of the established merc does it, cuz everyone needs isk to war  But you canŠt justify the starbase thingie with buiness deal, I see it as a bad respect for the merc work. "Real" mercs dont have a home where they eat "roids/harvest" or whatever. They go from battle to battle. Cuz you claim it will lower the prices when with my view of point has just raized the price instead.
End whining/bull**** talking and just ask if zajo if she is happy to be back in PB. I mined and npced a bit her when i lived there with my other charchter, who I only use to post in threads that is "really" affecting me :P
And i give 1 mil for the first person to discover who that is, cuz if you have something between your ears that is not hard to figure out :P
Please only use english in your signature - Jacques([email protected]) |
Mochalatte
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Posted - 2006.05.04 18:22:00 -
[182]
if anyone questions the stance of these mc and bob your a total idiot/moron.Digi nice post!! it confirms all others thoughts except a few keys points.all those points have been posted already in this thread. so I won't even try to bother.posting this mc has made a few things clear.some people get to point that think they are above others. they get brash with their actions.i think certain things have been made very apparent lately to the eve community.
 Originally by: DB Preacher
to boonaki 050406-
don't you mean "BoB's Minister for talking complete and utter **** on the forums"?
Thought so.
dbp
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Razor Jaxx
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Posted - 2006.05.04 18:26:00 -
[183]
Originally by: Seleene
Razor, I understand a lot of what you are saying, but the thing is that a lot of your questions simply don't need to be public. We've always been a private organization and that's not going to change. 
My bad then, I must've misunderstood your motives for starting this thread. 
I'd gladly take you up on some of your answers, most of which are very "jesuitic" by nature, but a public thread isn't the place for this. Maybe a public house someday.
Rock on MC's. 
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Traxio Nacho
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Posted - 2006.05.04 18:28:00 -
[184]
Edited by: Traxio Nacho on 04/05/2006 18:28:28
Originally by: Mochalatte
if anyone questions the stance of these mc and bob your a total idiot/moron.Digi nice post!! it confirms all others thoughts except a few keys points.all those points have been posted already in this thread. so I won't even try to bother.posting this mc has made a few things clear.some people get to point that think they are above others. they get brash with their actions.i think certain things have been made very apparent lately to the eve community.
Theres a button called Enter its quite a large key but it comes in handy when making long sentences.
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Mochalatte
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Posted - 2006.05.04 18:34:00 -
[185]
Originally by: Traxio Nacho
Edited by: Traxio Nacho on 04/05/2006 18:28:28
Originally by: Mochalatte
if anyone questions the stance of these mc and bob your a total idiot/moron.Digi nice post!! it confirms all others thoughts except a few keys points.all those points have been posted already in this thread. so I won't even try to bother.posting this mc has made a few things clear.some people get to point that think they are above others. they get brash with their actions.i think certain things have been made very apparent lately to the eve community.
Theres a button called Enter its quite a large key but it comes in handy when making long sentences.
theres a thing called a shovel.you use it to dig a even deeper hole than you currently have diggen.
Originally by: DB Preacher
to boonaki 050406-
don't you mean "BoB's Minister for talking complete and utter **** on the forums"?
Thought so.
dbp
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Traxio Nacho
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Posted - 2006.05.04 18:38:00 -
[186]
Edited by: Traxio Nacho on 04/05/2006 18:41:47
Actually wont get into an argument with an alt 
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Lowa
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Posted - 2006.05.04 18:39:00 -
[187]
Originally by: Hans Roaming
OK looking objectively at the current situation the fact that as Digi pointed out MC stand to loose a huge amount by engaging BoB means that the barrier to entry for them to take a contract has been raised far and above that of engaging any other alliance regardless of how good the opponent is.
For example for every other alliance in EvE the profit and loss factors are down to how many ships they will loose compared to the income from insurance, loot and the client.
We have a winnner!
After enjoying a healthy dinner made up of burgers and fries together with Leafo this
is exactly what we talked about; price of contract vs potential loss of equipment.
Example:
Againts alliance/corp X we expect losses in the range of 10BS, 10HAC, 10 Ceptors etc.
Against alliance/corp Y we expect losses in the range of 120BS, 95HAC, 45 ceptors etc.
This is what people cant seem to grasp, the higher the stake the higher the price.
It is very simple.
Against BoB, the primary armed force in EVE, the price would be huge. Because the risk
would be huge, the losses would be huge and figths would be hard as coffin-nails.
This goes for any other of the larger armed alliances as well, attacking D2 or ASCN
in their homespace would cost a silly amount of money.
The cost of capital ship fuel alone would be in the 10-12b ranges for a month of war.
Ask Cmd Woodloose how much it cost them to war ASCN?
Ask BoB how much the operation in ECP-8R cost them?
Now I'll be honest, so far we havent been worried about loosing out isk wise against
any opponent we have fought so far simply because we are confident that we will do
what we are contracted to do with a lot less losses than our target.
Now, the warfare in EVE is changing, 0.0 alliances are really getting into being just that,
0.0 based alliances with very little dealing inside Empire space meaning that we or anyone
currently conducting military operations agains this alliance must enter and attack
in 0.0 to make the target feel the pressure hence the risk of going up against more
co-ordinated fleets and bigger numbers increase. As does the price for such contract.
Empire warfare is a dying proffesion in the larger scheme of things and thats a fact.
I still like it and its still a good market but I dont think we will be using the whole
of MC in Empire that much anymore unless its part of a bigger plan!
And in regards to what we mean by a plan; if you cant come up with one on your own...
I will give you a hint though, think big. Think beyond the next patch and the one after that.
Cheers,
LOWA
NSN - Forcing EVE reviewers to mine since 2003! |
Faith Black
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Posted - 2006.05.04 18:40:00 -
[188]
Originally by: Blacklight
People will always question because they are curious little monkeys by nature
He got me.
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If you don't like my spelling, I can also write it in German, if you prefer that. ;) |
Seleene
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Posted - 2006.05.04 18:47:00 -
[189]
Originally by: Lowa
Now, the warfare in EVE is changing
To put it another way.... Mercenary Frigates has evolved to Mercenary Dreads / Carriers / Titans, etc... 
-
History of the MC movie! |
Zzazzt
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Posted - 2006.05.04 18:47:00 -
[190]
Originally by: Shin Ra
Regardless of everything else, the move has hurt MC's popularity/public opinion.
Why should they care? They make as much if not more isk from their industry than their fees anyhow. Also, as they've already pointed out - they're not short of contract offers. They don't need to care one whit what you or the forum spammers think, as the high-rollers all know what the score is & will hire them on past performance if nothing else.
Originally by: Shin Ra
This thread has made it worse.
How? Point out a single new "argument" or retort.
Originally by: Shin Ra
The term 'mercenary' is being used very loosely now.
I think you're confusing 'mercanary' with 'neutral'.
Originally by: Shin Ra
Natural progression or corporate culture misalignment?
Natural progression. To get their hands on the Kali goodies in a timely fashion they need to be doing exactly what they're doing. Good luck to 'em.
____________________________________________
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Blacklight
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Posted - 2006.05.04 18:53:00 -
[191]
Originally by: Zzazzt
..... good points....
Zzazzt proves yet again that he's not really daft, despite what everyone says about him
Eve Blacklight Style
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Sivona
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Posted - 2006.05.04 18:59:00 -
[192]
Originally by: Blacklight
Originally by: Zzazzt
..... good points....
Zzazzt proves yet again that he's not really daft, despite what everyone says about him
What have you done with the real Zzazzt and how much do we have to pay to get him back? :'(
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Deja Thoris
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Posted - 2006.05.04 18:59:00 -
[193]
This thread lacks conspiracy theories
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Manet
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Posted - 2006.05.04 19:23:00 -
[194]
Edited by: Manet on 04/05/2006 19:25:02
Originally by: Seleene
The MC does not take jobs based upon just money.
So it would seem that you are not the average Mercenary outfit then, since taking jobs based on money is standard operating procedure for the typical Merc outfit. What then seperates MC from the rest? Digi seems to have an answer for that.
Originally by: DigitalCommunist
MC...has to think about the post contract scene, and in the long run it ends up hurting them big time...The BoB relationship has more value than a simple 30bil outpost. Its all the potential gains they could make by having a secure 0.0 home versus losing the initial 30bil investment and billions defending it.
The MC didn't always have to consider the post contract scene. Something has changed, hasn't it?
Or did they in fact, always have to consider the post-contract scene?
Has anything changed significantly with the current outpost in PB situation, in their consideration of the post-contract scene?
It seems the obvious and necessary pre-contract question of "Will we survive this contract?" has taken on a different meaning with the erection of an outpost in PB. The post-contract scene didn't always look that way did it. So something has changed then, has it not?
Of course it has, and has been pointed it, if MC wanted to stay competetive in the long term, things had to change. But the result of that change, is that clients wishing to take on BoB with MC contracts need to factor in a very nasty looking post-contract scene into the price. And yet, this prohibitive cost will only come from a contract against BoB.
Why then, are BoB and MC surprised that people scream "something's not entirely balanced here!".
Thing's aren't balanced.
The business deal BoB and MC have entered into has made contracting MC, in Blacklight's own words, "Eve's premier merc force" (A force he openly admits is a risk to have at home) against BoB prohibitively expensive.
And that, in my opinion, is one of the better things BoB gets out of the deal. Simple really. Whilst MC can't kill BoB, they can slow them down and get in their way. So create a situation where it becomes highly unlikely that will happen, and throw in some other mutual benefits to top it all off.
Originally by: Blacklight
The fact that most people seem to be missing is that as a business deal it can be superceded at anytime by a better deal should one come along that is more beneficial to either side.
Yes, of course, but as Digi says...
Originally by: DigitalCommunist
[The current situation is]...an obscenely lucurative deal for them.
And unlikely to be beaten, by any other entity out there.
It really is simple, no need for tinfoil hats.
P.S. Don't scream alt, my main is inactive because I'm broke at the moment (2nd account). My main is Nooey.
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Blacklight
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Posted - 2006.05.04 19:29:00 -
[195]
Originally by: Manet
The MC didn't always have to consider the post contract scene. Something has changed, hasn't it?
Yes that something was called Red Moon Rising and involved Capital Ships, not to mention outposts, soveriegnty, POS infrastructure, alliances moving more and more to being totally 0.0 based etc etc..
"It really is simple, no need for tinfoil hats."
Eve Blacklight Style
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Halkin
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Posted - 2006.05.04 19:29:00 -
[196]
Originally by: Traxio Nacho
Seriously mods, cant you add some new function that doesnt allow alt's to post in the Corporation section.
Someone in general suggested each account should only have one slot nominated to post on the forums iirc. Unfornately it got laughed at a lot and disappeared into the realms 
Workable idea? Maybe, maybe not, but better than the current situation...
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Manet
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Posted - 2006.05.04 19:33:00 -
[197]
Blacklight:
As I said: "...if MC wanted to stay competetive in the long term, things had to change. But the result of that change..."
I wasn't advising they stick in empire running level IV's for Titan funds. I was pointing out the consequences of a necessary change. Consequences you/MC/BoB seem to be surprised that people are pointing out/screaming about.
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DrDevice
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Posted - 2006.05.04 19:46:00 -
[198]
well, i think bob should hire mc against themselves :)
just for the giggle factor
A day in the life of a priory applicant |
Minnow maught
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Posted - 2006.05.04 20:10:00 -
[199]
OK I'm a little confused by all this ...
1) MC say (very publicly) for the right price and with the right plan they will assist in attacking BOB.
2) BOB are obviously quite happy for MC to invite a concerted effort against BOB or else BOB would be trying to eject MC at this point.
BOB are happy with this ... why?
Surely any prospective client would be asking exactly the same question, why have BOB not responded to MC's open offer? I think the 'client' would also be very skeptical as to MC's true alegiance during a contract because of the above.
I don't like betting personally and MC seem to be laying a lot on the line especially if they are offered the 'right' contract. Presently they have their outpost, yet put up a public invitation that 'should' put that in great / greater danger than it currently is. For an alliance that chases the biggest paycheck this just doesn't make sense to me ....unless .... tin foil hat time .....
BOB have agreed with MC that if they can bring a big fun fight to BOB on their home turf that irrespective of the ultimate outcome, BOB will allow them to retain the outpost.
Woohoo I just lost my virginity ... first post in a MC / BOB thread :)
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Dracolich
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Posted - 2006.05.04 20:19:00 -
[200]
Damn, I remember you, Minnow. I remember saving your mining Thorax in Hakisalki 2 years ago...
But what you ask has been answered over and over, unless I am missing something(getting tired)...
_______________________________________
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Wierd Beard
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Posted - 2006.05.04 20:20:00 -
[201]
Originally by: Seleene
The first was when BoB went after Imperium and we got offered five billion a week to do everything we could to slow Robert down.
Omg! I'm so stealing that.
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ParMizaN
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Posted - 2006.05.04 20:27:00 -
[202]
Originally by: Zzazzt
nail on head
I havnt had the opportunity to chat with you yet. Hopefully if i can make it to one of the FF's that will change 
Phenomena of ironies, cast the litany aside
How intelligible, blessed be the forgetful |
Kuolematon
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Posted - 2006.05.04 20:49:00 -
[203]
.. and yet Seleene lacks the balls to wardec BoB without anyone paying for that
Unnerf Amarr! |
Minnow maught
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Posted - 2006.05.04 20:51:00 -
[204]
Originally by: Dracolich
Damn, I remember you, Minnow. I remember saving your mining Thorax in Hakisalki 2 years ago...
Damn and I told my corp mates I can't mine.
Originally by: Dracolich
But what you ask has been answered over and over, unless I am missing something(getting tired)...
I don't think it has but I did stop reading at the 6th page or somet. I think I offered an alternative speculation to all the 'omg mc is napped with BOB posts'.
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ParMizaN
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Posted - 2006.05.04 20:57:00 -
[205]
Originally by: Kuolematon
.. and yet Seleene lacks the balls to wardec BoB without anyone paying for that
uhh what exactly would be the point of that now?
We dont gain money for it, we lose our outpost, our 0.0 and suddenly are pretty much your average alliance. Think before you speak nonsense
Phenomena of ironies, cast the litany aside
How intelligible, blessed be the forgetful |
DoctorGonzo
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Posted - 2006.05.04 21:11:00 -
[206]
Originally by: ParMizaN
Originally by: Zzazzt
nail on head
I havnt had the opportunity to chat with you yet. Hopefully if i can make it to one of the FF's that will change
Watch out - Zzazzt cuddles everyone when drunk! 
Get Your BoB Protection Kit Here |
Faith Black
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Posted - 2006.05.04 21:11:00 -
[207]
Edited by: Faith Black on 04/05/2006 21:12:40
Originally by: Minnow maught
BOB have agreed with MC that if they can bring a big fun fight to BOB on their home turf that irrespective of the ultimate outcome, BOB will allow them to retain the outpost.
Obviously. After the war is over they'd shake hands and do buisiness as usual. If someone has a problem with this, he shouldn't hire MC against BoB.
But it's all hypothetical. The really interesting situation that someone hires MC against BoB, that Bob is about to be destroyed and that it finally depends on MC to do the final blow on BoB, won't happen.
More likely is:
- noone hires MC against BoB
- or MC is hired only for a limited time and BoB finally wins the war anyway
I think their deal is made on this assumption.
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If you don't like my spelling, I can also write it in German, if you prefer that. ;) |
Hellspawn01
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Posted - 2006.05.04 21:20:00 -
[208]
Originally by: Faith Black
More likely is:
- noone hires MC against BoB
- or MC is hired only for a limited time and BoB finally wins the war anyway
MC have the advantage of guerilla tactics.
**Ship lovers click here** |
Manic Mole
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Posted - 2006.05.04 21:25:00 -
[209]
someone needs to make a conspiricy table or something, I mean we got the map and the deplomacy table we need one for conspiricies.
Join My Corp. my posts do not represent my corp.
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Manic Mole
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Posted - 2006.05.04 21:29:00 -
[210]
point.
Join My Corp. my posts do not represent my corp.
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