This should go in "features and ideas discussion." See also: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=303845 in which Fozzie says he "would really like to see a missile focused pirate race at some point."

So, devs are aware of the desire for this to exist and agree it should exist. Only question is when.

There is a Navy alternative. Navy Typhoon.
It doesn't have 'Pirate' bonuses, but it does have decent utility slots available.

I totally support your idea, just pointing out the Phoon if you weren't aware.

Ever since the demise of the DPS of the Navy Raven under a crazy idea that somehow missiles are viable at super long range, when it take missiles forever and a day to travel.

It would be nice to have a high dps Pirate Faction Missile boat. Something that missile users can be proud of.

Did I miss something a few patches back? My cruise missile CNR puts out over 1k DPS from the launchers

946 dps with t2 cruise with cal navy bcs while the navy phoon 975 dps with a larger alpha and the joys of a set of heavies.

So you are not making 1000 dps without a 6% implant which costs another 250 mil and 250k concord LP or Almost another 500 mil

If you are adding in drone damage, then after 40km, your drones are useless and a Phoon's dps added in with heavies puts it alot more ahead and it can drop a set of sentry and hit out double that range. If you add in 2 turrets in the last high slots, you will be over 1100 dps with no implants, and with arties over 2000 alpha on top of that.
Which it still maintains a very similar tank and a 100mm smaller sig radius and a faster base speed than the raven.

Perhaps you did miss something then?

[Raven Navy Issue, LVL 4]
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Ballistic Control System II
Gravimetric Backup Array II

100MN Afterburner II
Gist C-Type Large Shield Booster
Shield Boost Amplifier II
Shield Boost Amplifier II
Thermic Dissipation Field II
Kinetic Deflection Field II
Kinetic Deflection Field II

Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Cruise Missile

Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst II
Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst II
Large Warhead Flare Catalyst II

Hammerhead II x5
Hobgoblin II x5




Use CM-605 and RL-1005 and you get just over 1k without drones, and with good damage application too.

Ever since the demise of the DPS of the Navy Raven under a crazy idea that somehow missiles are viable at super long range, when it take missiles forever and a day to travel.

Wait did the Raven Navy Issue get nerfed??

So 2 +5's? With out those implants its still under 1k and the phoon. You are still looking at 300 mil in implants.

I can hit 1135 on a phoon fleet, no drones and no implants. Over 100+ more dps than that with those same implants.

See what I mean? Back to my original point, We need a pirate missile boat that is high dps. Under vindi dps by a little, but just a little under and with heavy drone use.

Fleet Typhoon has 8.25 effective launchers vs every other missile BS's 8.

Damage application difference is somewhat irrelevant as after the rigors/flares and TPs you'll already be hitting cruisers for 100% damage anyway, application bonus or no. That just leaves frigates, which the TFI can blap with sentries while they're inbound, so it doesn't need to waste time using missiles on them. That's not even talking about the extra bonused turrets.

It's silly that the Minmatar navy missile boat has 8.25 launchers, two utility highs (with the option of sticking bonused turrets in there), AND 125m2 of drone space. Most of the Caldari boats lose a bonus slot to a mostly-wasted range bonus, given how far cruises go anyway.

But it's not really a major concern for me anymore anyway. I've given up on missiles and switching over to sentry LMJD sniping for missions, which makes things so much easier. No ammo, no volley counting, still selectable damage (at least somewhat)...

Fleet Phoon lacks the same sort of tank, doesn't have targeting range to make good use of its cruises and has less sensor strength so it gets jammed more often. Most importantly it gets no damage application bonus so it does terrible DPS with fury and while sentry dps sounds really cool it'll be a ***** to actually apply that without omnidirectionals. Paper dps doesn't tell the whole story, the CNR will do missions a lot better and with less annoyance (working both launchers as sentries isn't fun).


And you want Vindi Blaster DPS from a ship with massive range, damage type selection and no tracking issues? Do you realise that for a Vindi to have any sort of comparable range it needs to use Rails, which lowers its dps to below 900 on the turrets while having tracking issues, still having range issues, using cap and be forced into kin/thermal? Trust me, the CNR is better off.

Yet gun ships use t2 ammo no problem.

This is flat out incorrect. T2 short range ammo for guns is mostly useless. The tracking and range is so bad it is useless on small guns and midly terrible on mediums and larges.

Its not as bad as you claim, I assure you. Also ever use rage torps on a non moving drake? Its hundreds of damage less per shot even with the use of a stealth bomber as compare to faction. Dont even try it with a torp Battleship,

In fact HAM's you cant even hit another cruiser standing still without reduced damage and its a cruiser weapon.
Rockets require dual webs to be fully effective on another frig. Lets not even get into the heavy missile nerf, it was essentially double nerf because CCP buffed the guns after the nerf.

You know what t2 guns do with a BS on a non moving drake? Mauls the crap out of it for full damage.
You can do it with a cruiser and destroyer as well, frigs are toast with a web and scram.


Must be nice.

If missiles are so great why is it that they are so little used in pvp? Aside for some in faction frig/destroyer warfare and even gun users are whining about missile success in that area. Rapid missile launchers are garbage on top of that.

You must be one of those nerf the drake people when it was the tank that made it effective, not the weapon system.

Its not as bad as you claim, I assure you. Also ever use rage torps on a non moving drake? Its hundreds of damage less per shot even with the use of a stealth bomber as compare to faction. Dont even try it with a torp Battleship,

In fact HAM's you cant even hit another cruiser standing still without reduced damage and its a cruiser weapon.
Rockets require dual webs to be fully effective on another frig.

Anyone using Rage torps (explosion radius 580.5 m) against a battlecruiser deserves everything they get.

Your statements about rocket and HAM damage application are wrong, and obviously so.

Anyone using Rage torps (explosion radius 580.5 m) against a battlecruiser deserves everything they get.

Your statements about rocket and HAM damage application are wrong, and obviously so.

Actually, with no skills HAMs have an explosion radius of 125m, so there aren't many cruisers they'll hit for full damage in that case. Even with perfect skills they still have an explosion radius of 93.75m, which is large enough that quite a few cruisers won't get hit for full damage.

As for rockets, with perfect skills they have an explosion velocity of 225, which is slower than all frigs, and many frigs do indeed need to be double webbed to get that low...and that's without a propmod.

Wait did the Raven Navy Issue get nerfed??

If you want to call it a nerf, it happened last year at the same time as Cruise Missiles got massively buffed. The CNR when from 9.33 effective launchers to 8 launchers with a 25% Precision bonus. Against small and medium targets, the CNR's new precision bonus actually improved a bit (10 effective launchers vs small/fast targets). It also got a sig reduction and a speed boost.

At the same time, cruise launchers got a 25% straight up damage boost and a 5% RoF buff; this change was announced before the Faction BS rework. CMLs also got a 50% velocity buff.

Some people convinced themselves that they were seriously going to get a 1300 DPS range-bonused cruise missile platform and then acted like they'd lost something when they didn't.

After the changes were combined, the CNR ended up smaller, faster, got an extra mid, had a bigger alpha, much better damage application, 17.3% more missile DPS (a little more if you take reloading time into account), but with slower volley time.

Call that a nerf if you like.

My CNR chews through stuff way faster than before it's "demise" ...

If that was a nerf can you pretty please nerf the Nightmare in a similar fashion?? Say cut the 5% per level damage bonus down to 10% per level and just to make sure it's a horrible ship to fly add a 5% per level bonus to optimal and falloff. I promise if you do this I'll make a post complaining about it!

Thanks

IIshira