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Kyguard
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Posted - 2006.05.04 23:46:00 -
[61]
I understand that CCP needs to protect people when they log out for various reasons. However, it is ridiculous that you can completely avoid a gatecamp just by logging off...
Sure it's not your fault if your connection dies on you, but 90% of the people out there aren't losing connections. They are purposely logging and something should be done by CCP.
God is on the side with the best artillery.
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Uggster
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Posted - 2006.05.04 23:52:00 -
[62]
Good points from the OP. Particually number 5
I'll not get into some of the sh1t that followed I'll just add a
Signed
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Ripline
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Posted - 2006.05.05 00:02:00 -
[63]
The carrier issue is pretty severe, tbh. The Guerrilla POS come to mind. The ability to just drop a few POS along the hauling routes and supply them on the fly with one carrier which can carry a month's worth of fuel...kinda removes a lot of the risk.
So you can't put a resource choke on the POS anymore and if you want to get rid of the said POS you gotta do a full frontal assault which is frankly a huge pain in the ass. So we're moving back to square one to the situation CCP looked to avoid by ramping up the control tower prices. Namely POS wars. Invulnerable supply lines are a complete disaster balance wise.
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Lorth
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Posted - 2006.05.05 01:38:00 -
[64]
I want my exploiting alt back...
I like argueing against stupid ideas and dumb logic, its like ganking newbies, so easy, yet somehow fun.
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Nikolai Nuvolari
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Posted - 2006.05.05 03:16:00 -
[65]
Part of the problem is that you run into the problem of protecting people with dropped connections versus penalizing people who log out.
As much as I hate to see people allowed to log out to save themselves, I just don't think killing people because their connection dropped is fair. I tend to lean towards the side of protecting them.
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Tom Thumb > for a nut case you rawk
[04:21:15] Mebrithiel Ju'wien > Nik's bio 4tw btw
[07:38:53] Graelyn > Nikolai for Dev 108!
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mazzilliu
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Posted - 2006.05.05 03:30:00 -
[66]
why not just make it a 15 minute timer for all loggers? wether running away from a fight or actually crashed
i agree with point number 5 the most... i want a logistics ship 
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Sig removed BEFORE the mods got to it bahaha -mazzilliu
But we can play with it after. ~kieron
that should be considered an exploit >[ -mazzilliu |
Nikolai Nuvolari
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Posted - 2006.05.05 03:36:00 -
[67]
 Originally by: mazzilliu
why not just make it a 15 minute timer for all loggers? wether running away from a fight or actually crashed
Maybe because if you actually disconnect, you're boned?
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Tom Thumb > for a nut case you rawk
[04:21:15] Mebrithiel Ju'wien > Nik's bio 4tw btw
[07:38:53] Graelyn > Nikolai for Dev 108!
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ProphetGuru
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Posted - 2006.05.05 04:40:00 -
[68]
Shamis most of the alliance forum *****s don't post in Gen Disc at all lol.
Anyways, for what it's worth, I agree with all your points. I wasn't even aware of the endless cargo thing, that's a game breaker that should incur bannage.
To the alts etc, the OPs profession of choice in this GAME doesn't invalidate any of his points, and shame on you for being petty enough to cry "OMG Pirate" as an excuse to leave in obvious bugs and an exploit.
Evolution..... Just when you thought you were winning.
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Danton Marcellus
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Posted - 2006.05.05 04:43:00 -
[69]
Agreed, links with other ships should not be obtained through target locks, won't someone think of the drones!
Remind me about The Maze.
I'm Danton Marcellus and I approve of this message. |
Pepperami
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Posted - 2006.05.05 06:00:00 -
[70]
Originally by: Shamis Orzoz
4) Carrier "Bag of Holding" Exploit - I can't go into detail here, but this is a SERIOUS bug that needs fixing. Infinite cargo space is a bit broken, don't you think? If you haven't figured this one out yet CCP, feel free to contact me.
I personally believe this is responsible for much of the "unexplained" lag lately (like last weekend) - I only say this because one instance when I know a group of people were using this about a month ago, there was huge, inexplicable lag in the surounding areas. Not a strong link, but a link none-the-less.
[Art of War][- V -] |
Dinique
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Posted - 2006.05.05 06:57:00 -
[71]
Originally by: Pepperami
I personally believe this is responsible for much of the "unexplained" lag lately (like last weekend) - I only say this because one instance when I know a group of people were using this about a month ago, there was huge, inexplicable lag in the surounding areas. Not a strong link, but a link none-the-less.
Don't really see how this could cause lag. Its not like the server has to physically carry the cargo 
I'd vote coincidence on that one.
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Pepperami
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Posted - 2006.05.05 06:59:00 -
[72]
I heard there was a bug where containers in containers would cause lag long ago - can't put containers in containers anymore, but messing around with too much cargo could cause db problems perhaps?
Not 100% convincing, I know, but a possible link imo. 
[Art of War][- V -] |
Nanotech
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Posted - 2006.05.05 07:10:00 -
[73]
Point #3 of the OP
those skiffs cost about 2 billion - and then if the carrier gets bumped or pwned, thats an expensive ship brother.... its fine.
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Miz Cenuij
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Posted - 2006.05.05 07:20:00 -
[74]
More important than any of the above bugs is the fact that undocking ina carrier with ships in ship hold causes u to crash, how about ACTUAL bugs like that are fixed before anything else?
"Men are going to die..
and im going to kill them". |
Gibmundur
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Posted - 2006.05.05 12:10:00 -
[75]
i suggest ccp gets a big ban button and bans people who exploit like this!
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Megan Ryder
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Posted - 2006.05.05 12:32:00 -
[76]
no experience of 1-4, but defo. signed on 5
they want to prolong fights? make these mods useable in fights!
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Kilo Paskaa
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Posted - 2006.05.05 12:39:00 -
[77]
These might explain why i havent got good iskies from piracy lately. Signed.
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As you can see, i pwned Kieron for iskies. |
Snake Jankins
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Posted - 2006.05.05 12:58:00 -
[78]
Edited by: Snake Jankins on 05/05/2006 12:59:46
Edited by: Snake Jankins on 05/05/2006 12:58:42
Originally by: Nikolai Nuvolari
Part of the problem is that you run into the problem of protecting people with dropped connections versus penalizing people who log out.
As much as I hate to see people allowed to log out to save themselves, I just don't think killing people because their connection dropped is fair. I tend to lean towards the side of protecting them.
If someone logs or looses connection while he's still cloaked after a gate, the cloak should break and he should start to align and warp out. He should be targetable during this, so if he gets scrambled and killed during this, then he would have been killed anyway, also without the connection loss.
If there is an interdictor bubble, he shouldn't warp out of course.
I don't see the problem. If you are going to die anyway, it's pointless if you have a connection loss or not. Let the guy decloak immediately and automatically try to warp out. If we can scramble him and he dies and then it's no different as if he didn't have a connection loss, tries to warp out manually and gets scrambeled and killed. Then nobody would log after a gate, because it would make no difference ( except to safe his pod maybe )
___________
'Only ships can be assembled, this is a Frigate.' |
Shamis Orzoz
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Posted - 2006.05.05 13:20:00 -
[79]
Edited by: Shamis Orzoz on 05/05/2006 13:25:31
Originally by: Miz Cenuij
More important than any of the above bugs is the fact that undocking ina carrier with ships in ship hold causes u to crash, how about ACTUAL bugs like that are fixed before anything else?
Yes, it would be a shame for ccp to slow you down. You make what, 2 bil a day off of #3?
That's well over $100,000 USD a year if you convert it to time cards.
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Dunhill 1
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Posted - 2006.05.05 13:23:00 -
[80]
Originally by: Shamis Orzoz
Originally by: 0bsession
SOLUTION: Adapt you meatheads.
Why is it if you guys can't get an easykill in 0.0 you think its a complete unbalance. I'm willing to bet 80% of Eve doesn't even have the skills, assets, or environments to even utilize any of those "whines".
Its your own peers in 0.0 making due on what the game mechanics allow. Btw... it IS called a "CARRIER".
Change nothing... all is fine.
So carriers should hold more the freighters and BOTH should be 99.9% immune to anything bad happening along the way?
I suppose you think that logging out is a FEATURE of the game. Sort of like an extra low slot right?
While I agree with what you say, logging out is a feature of the game, it's called going back to RL.
I lose connection all the time, very bad ISP's in my country, lots of ships lost due to not warping out even while on ams, is that suppose to be my fault as well?
And remember the skillz and isk involved with carriers, however it is an exploit and should be fixed, PLUS it does cost them isk to use the carrier in that way, so it's deff not all bad, and billions you say? hehehe
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Shamis Orzoz
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Posted - 2006.05.05 13:34:00 -
[81]
Edited by: Shamis Orzoz on 05/05/2006 13:36:36
Originally by: Dunhill 1
While I agree with what you say, logging out is a feature of the game, it's called going back to RL.
I lose connection all the time, very bad ISP's in my country, lots of ships lost due to not warping out even while on ams, is that suppose to be my fault as well?
Your point isn't relevant. If you were going to jump into a system or warp to a gate that had a interdiction sphere on it and you were alone you should die regardless of whether or not you crash. If you jumped in with a group then your chances of dying should only be a little bit worse than thye would have been when you were logged out. Either your side wins the fight and you live(unless you were called primary) or your side loses and you die (unless your ship wasn't aggro'd in 30 seconds. People who log out/crash shouldn't have a better chance of survival than they did if they had stayed logged in.
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Shamis Orzoz
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Posted - 2006.05.05 13:40:00 -
[82]
Edited by: Shamis Orzoz on 05/05/2006 13:42:00
Originally by: Nanotech
Point #3 of the OP
those skiffs cost about 2 billion - and then if the carrier gets bumped or pwned, thats an expensive ship brother.... its fine.
You'll make enough isk to cover the skiffs and the carrier in 3 days if you run miz's 0.0 trade run, and there will be ZERO risk of you dying.
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James Lyrus
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Posted - 2006.05.05 14:21:00 -
[83]
Logging out is, and always will be lame. No arguments there. I do think though, that having an interdictor able to drop out a sphere and jump immediately (or log) is also pretty lame. I dislike both logging in/to avoid combat, or just the 'safespot and log' if there's hostiles in local.
Carriers, is your objection to the capacity, or to the fact that jumpdrives are used for logistics?
I don't think that carriers full of skiffs full of cans is an intended use of game mechanics.
But I also don't see a problem with using jumpdrives for logistics. They take a fair amount of effort to arrange, with jump points, fuel costs and training.
Personally I think that a 'jumpdrive hauler' is needed, rather than carriers or dreads, but that's just because I dislike seeing 'combat' ships used for that role. Dreads have what, 60k or so cargo space? They're not _quite_ as good at the job as a carrier, but ...
--
We are recruiting
We sell Chimeras. |
Haniblecter Teg
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Posted - 2006.05.05 15:16:00 -
[84]
5 is an awesome Idea.
Instaed of cntrl-click for regular weapon locking, make shift-lock the 'heal' lock. No weaons can be used with this lock, only remotes.
Also, its very embarassing when someone notcies you're accidently healing the POS you're shooting. Accidently utility slot clicking 4tl.
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Friends Forever
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David H'Levi
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Posted - 2006.05.05 22:49:00 -
[85]
Without opening the can of worms that is 2-4, there are some very easy ways to fix logout while cloaked.
Obviously you can't turn a bubble into direct aggression (because that would decloak people, possibly while still loading and make fleet battles problematic (you'd have to have very good coordination of jump times and load speeds to all come through, and therefore decloak, simultaneously)). If I'm speculating correctly, this is hte balance that has given rise to the fact that emergency warp overcomes bubbles, because the bubble doesn't affect them until they're decloaked, but their already in the second stage of warp by the time they do.
So the problem is finding a balance between the good mechanism of a limited cloak time, and the bad mechanism of instant emergency warp. If we dont like the idea of proper alignment (say to the nearest celestial body at 1000km or something), then CCP could simply incorporate a few millisecond alignment time for emergency warps -- if they're not inside a bubble they'll emergency warp before any human being could click, let alone target, their ship, and if they are inside the bubble, presumably the bubble will hit them in the instant that it takes to align. They're then caught, unable to warp, and you have 30 seconds to target and aggress them (if I understand the mechanics correctly, which I probably don't).
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Prestis
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Posted - 2006.05.05 23:40:00 -
[86]
I've seen the cloaked log-off exploit work for BSs too. Any ship that can survive a minute (with no modules running) can do it to get through any gate safe.
And Interdictor spheres have worse problems than that - they don't interupt warping, just stop it starting, so that sniper with 7 WCS can just click 'warp' while you're locking him. Doesn't matter if he spends the next 30 secs aligning inside the sphere, he'll still warp off.
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Just Smith
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Posted - 2006.05.06 00:11:00 -
[87]
CCP have known about the basicly inf cargo bug of the carrier for close for over 90 days (over 1 patch ago) hopfully it will be fixed soon and the people that expoilted that way will have action taken but i not going to hold my beath or i will die a long time before anything happens.
hopfully at the same time they will fix the Very long list of other carrier bugs
Well you've come to the right place, then. There hasn't been a war run this badly since Olaf the hairy, King of all the vikings, ordered 80,000 battle helmets with the horns on the inside." |
Audri Fisher
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Posted - 2006.05.06 01:49:00 -
[88]
They are caled carriers because they CARRY FIGHTERS. Wet water navies also use them as the fleet logistics ships because they can hold lots of stuff.
Reguarding the whole using carriers as very expensive freighters. I personaly don't see it as a problem, becuase of the risk reward thing. yes, they are almost invulnerable, but if you do manage to catch one, damn that hasto hurt the pocketbook.
The risk is huge, just not very likely to come to pass.
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Kobii
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Posted - 2006.05.06 11:46:00 -
[89]
agreed with all points
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Dano Sarum
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Posted - 2006.05.06 12:07:00 -
[90]
Bumping up POS prices is NOT a solution, for a small corp and new players a small mining pos is a big investment and frankly putting the prices up simply makes no differences in the long run. So many of the big corps and alliances have so much cash and income it wouldnt make a damned difference making the price X10.
Money is not the solution, starting to ban people for using exploits and actually FIXING them is. The whole carrier becoming an uber transport thing is lame as hell now. Frieghters are also less and less used now outside of empire.
Seriously stop letting the game benefit those who are at the top with even more and more cash and easier ways to make it, frankly as it is the small guy and corps have to work for their cash and supply lines, wheras those who've got the cash can just keep making sickening ammounts of it with all this crap.
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