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Bienator II
24th Imperial Crusade
Amarr Empire
306
   |
Posted - 2011.11.25 20:50:00 -
[31] - Quote
SOISOISOIOSIOSISOISOIS wrote:
Bienator II you say its a artificial well all rules in the sandbox are but if the bounty system is to ever work it must be made so that people cant collect on their own bounties. if you have an idea that would stop people from being able to collect their own bounties im more than willing to hear it
have you read the proposal? Because if you have you should know that thats the main point about it. Otherwise please point me to the part which was unclear to you.
a new bounty system for eve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=359105
You fail you fail you fail you fail you fail you fail you fail to jump because you are cloaked |
SOISOISOIOSIOSISOISOIS
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
1
|
Posted - 2011.11.25 21:25:00 -
[32] - Quote
Bienator II let me get back to you i dont have time for a long discussion right now but i will reply later or tomorrow or in game if thats good with you so we can discuss it further |
el alasar
The Scope
Gallente Federation
76
|
Posted - 2011.11.26 00:02:00 -
[33] - Quote
+1. nice summary, we had several threads like this i think...
Bienator II wrote:lets say you fly a navy apoc which costs with modules around 800mil, your bounty is 1000mil. Your alt kills you in it.
payout = 60% of 800mil = 480mil
this means you reduced your bounty by 480mil but lost 800mil in assets
-> 320mil lost
same applies for podkills
please add some example to top post to clarify, please also consider
- statistically 50% (?) of modules and cargo drops and can be collected. maybe only pay out based on what effectively got destroyed? so not a factor, but random based on what dropped.
- insurance should be paid, but it is a highly different ratio for tech1 and tech2 ships - compared to ships market prices. so maybe using the insurance payout as absolute number to reduce payout makes more sense.
maybe add an "options" section to top post. i vote
- once you have a bounty - even the slightest - you should be eligible to people trying to collect it everywhere, regardless of your current sec status.
- once you have commited a crime you should be eligible to having bounty placed on your head (by the victim)
- give holders of bounties a chance to redeem themselves and get rid of the bounty - e.g. paying back five times the bounty to the victim(s), or ten times the bounty to concord.
more little ideas that need your support:
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=261507#post261507
enjoying the order cancellation confirmation? sometimes CCP listens - there is hope after all :)
www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1431503 |
Prizon
Delfus Inc.
HumAnnoyeD
0
|
Posted - 2011.11.26 01:28:00 -
[34] - Quote
el alasar wrote:
- make payout reflect what effectively was destroyed and what dropped, if the ship was insured and so on
I would think only if the mods and\or cargo can also be insured there should be an overall insurance.
el alasar wrote:
- apply some factor to the resulting base payout value (i suggest 90%, maybe have skills to influence that - the long lost DED connections? change to % increase *hehe*)
Now THAT is a great idea; kudos.
el alasar wrote:
- once you have a bounty - even the slightest - you should be eligible to people trying to collect it everywhere, regardless of your current sec status.
Bounty hunting becomes a proffession i kind of like that!!!
el alasar wrote:
- once you have commited a crime you should be eligible to having bounty placed on your head (by the victim)
Darn str8.
el alasar wrote:
- give holders of bounties a chance to redeem themselves and get rid of the bounty - e.g. paying back five times the bounty to the victim(s), or ten times the bounty to concord.
presumably they will just add the redemption fee to their calculation (the crimees) but turnabout is fair...
Food for thought this post^^ |
el alasar
The Scope
Gallente Federation
77
|
Posted - 2011.11.26 09:05:00 -
[35] - Quote
no time to fix my post #33 right now, there is an error in thinking:
1. voluntary redemption payback factors need to correspond to the effective bounty payout percentage, (like 1.0<->100%, 2.0<->50%, 5.0<->20%, ... ), otherwise it would never be an option considered paying back bounty. instead, the preferable method would be to use an alt to work off the bounty by destroying stuff yourself and getting paid back more compared to using voluntary payback method.
if the effective bounty payout percentage is xxx, using an alt to clean your slate you would...
- 100%: loose/gain nothing. you get paid exactly, what you destroy. bad.
- 50%: you get paid back half of what you destroy.
...
next idea for later : make bounty hunting in some circumstances an alternative path to ratting. later...
more little ideas that need your support:
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=261507#post261507
enjoying the order cancellation confirmation? sometimes CCP listens - there is hope after all :)
www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1431503 |
Bat Khan
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2011.11.30 14:29:00 -
[36] - Quote
YABS Ver. x.x
- bounty office upload a virus to medical clone of the wanted person
- the medical clone now cant store SP (like the basic medical clone mechanic)
- no bounty mechanic or payout change
+?
- bounty roster dont show chars doesnt logged in (or left station) a specified period (maybe related to bounty) till next login/station left
- issuer can cancel bounty
- clone jump impossible
....dark, harsh.....  |
Migeta
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2011.11.30 17:49:00 -
[37] - Quote
hmm i gues this coud be a beter idea
bounty limit
0-100m isk (normal)
100m- 500m ( can be shoot in hs)
500m-1b (cannot dock and can be shoot in hs)
1b- more ( cannot dock cannot clone jump, canot gate jump so hes locked in the sistem so hunters come and claim the bounty, can be shooted in hs)
benefits : bounty people get kileed, more pvp , moreaction , more choices to go hunt for a bounty. |
Bienator II
24th Imperial Crusade
Amarr Empire
323
|
Posted - 2011.12.03 20:15:00 -
[38] - Quote
added examples to the proposal.
thanks to el alasar!
a new bounty system for eve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=359105
You fail you fail you fail you fail you fail you fail you fail to jump because you are cloaked |
Bienator II
24th Imperial Crusade
Amarr Empire
323
|
Posted - 2011.12.03 20:24:00 -
[39] - Quote
a few comments to the comments ;)
skills influencing payout... yeah why not but thats just "tweaking" I only intended to highlight the core idea - FIX of the issue. improvements are always possible, in fact the proposal is even more flexible as the current (broken) system IMO.
same for potential sec specific rules, e.g. certain amount of bounty makes your gcc and so forth.
all nice things which COULD be considered but are not the FIX to the problem, they are "nice to haves"
other idea was:
ignore sec status on crime -> enables you to place bounty to someone which has GCC
... nice to have, gamedesigners should decide
Migeta wrote:hmm i gues this coud be a beter idea...
where is the advantage/FIX?
a new bounty system for eve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=359105
You fail you fail you fail you fail you fail you fail you fail to jump because you are cloaked |
Bienator II
madmen of the skies
361
|
Posted - 2011.12.19 02:48:00 -
[40] - Quote
epic bump out of nowhere
a new bounty system for eve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=359105
You fail you fail you fail you fail you fail you fail you fail to jump because you are cloaked |
Informer
Tormentum Insomniae
Raiden.
2
|
Posted - 2011.12.22 15:55:00 -
[41] - Quote
The recent change to insurance, where if you are killed by Concord you dont get any insurance, solves this small problem.
As a "Bounty Hunter Concord License" holder, you are in fact enforcing law in the name of Concord and the criminal doesn't get the insurance cash. 
|
Bienator II
madmen of the skies
502
|
Posted - 2012.01.12 15:38:00 -
[42] - Quote
bumped, so it can't jump
a new bounty system for eve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=359105
You fail you fail you fail you fail you fail you fail you fail to jump because you are cloaked |
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
401
|
Posted - 2012.01.31 18:12:00 -
[43] - Quote
Bump for a good idea! |
Bienator II
madmen of the skies
562
|
Posted - 2012.02.02 15:42:00 -
[44] - Quote
same idea here (but it takes only the clone costs into the formula)
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=745844
a eve-style bounty system https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=359105
You fail you fail you fail you fail you fail you fail you fail to jump because you are cloaked |
Vertisce Soritenshi
Varion Galactic
Tragedy.
1012
|
Posted - 2012.02.02 16:05:00 -
[45] - Quote
This is an excellent idea. It is a much more fleshed out version of my own and even takes it a few steps further. I fully support this idea. This should be placed in Assembly Hall.
+1
EvE is not about PvP.-á EvE is about the SANDBOX! - CCP!-á Open the door!!! |
Vertisce Soritenshi
Varion Galactic
Tragedy.
1039
|
Posted - 2012.02.10 15:31:00 -
[46] - Quote
I am NOT bumping this thread. I repeat...this is NOT a bump.
EvE is not about PvP.-á EvE is about the SANDBOX! - CCP!-á Open the door!!! |
Bienator II
madmen of the skies
573
|
Posted - 2012.02.11 18:59:00 -
[47] - Quote
thanks for bumping fellow spaceship pilots, soon-to-be bounty hunters or hunted people!
a eve-style bounty system https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=359105
You fail you fail you fail you fail you fail you fail you fail to jump because you are cloaked |
Vertisce Soritenshi
Varion Galactic
Tragedy.
1045
|
Posted - 2012.02.11 19:51:00 -
[48] - Quote
I didn't bump the thread. I clearly stated I did not bump the thread.
EvE is not about PvP.-á EvE is about the SANDBOX! - CCP!-á Open the door!!! |
Xeron Rich
Macabre Votum
Against ALL Authorities
0
|
Posted - 2012.02.12 22:22:00 -
[49] - Quote
+1 Keeping this thread alive.
It's a great idea. Everyone knows the bounty system is broken. I'm all for an actual profession to come out of this. |
Overs
Battlestars
S E D I T I O N
7
|
Posted - 2012.02.13 01:38:00 -
[50] - Quote
I think Blenator's idea works. Interesting how it mimics npc pirate bounties.
Any thoughts about making the bounty system part of the contract system? |
Bienator II
madmen of the skies
579
|
Posted - 2012.02.13 12:43:00 -
[51] - Quote
Overs wrote:I think Blenator's idea works. Interesting how it mimics npc pirate bounties.
Any thoughts about making the bounty system part of the contract system?
this would be an awesome extension. I fully support it, however, i believe we firstly need a solid foundation before we can add such things. I mean.. we all know the current system is broken - it does not work as intended. Adding features to a broken system will cause more problems as its worth.
e.g a few thoughts (based on an eve-style bounty system):
- shiptype specific contracts: kill this guy in his tengu and i double the reward from my wallet
- corp contracts: 10m per hulk/pirate/enemy/whatever, i do not care under what circumstance
- or just: look, i really want to have this guy killed in an expensive ship
- killrights transfer... but this one is complicated to do right
contracts would have to work like that:
- you upload an advertisement
- a few people want to sign the contract
- its now your responsibility to check the people and decide if they can sign (alt alarm!)
- if they sign they can hunt. They should get a special overview icon so that they look cool and the victim has a chance to run.
a eve-style bounty system https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=359105
You fail you fail you fail you fail you fail you fail you fail to jump because you are cloaked |
Vertisce Soritenshi
Varion Galactic
Tragedy.
1046
|
Posted - 2012.02.13 13:44:00 -
[52] - Quote
Doubling the bounty because they are in a specific ship would break the "based on ship value" part to prevent the person with the bounty on his head from profiting I think. He would be able to use an alt to take the contract and make money off his own kill. Unless there is a way around that I am not seeing. Would we want the current contract system part of this? I mean...it is mostly used for trade and should remain that way. I think it would work better and maybe even be a little bit of an ISK sink if we had a separate contracting system. Perhaps you go "buy" the kill rights to a bounty from the bounty board for a set amount of ISK for a set amount of time and then get your payout when you get the kill. I am not thinking of a lot of ISK. Maybe a half mill or so...or perhaps base it on the amount of SP the player with the bounty has just like clones work. Multiple people can buy kill rights on the same person and be actively hunting them at the same time. Perhaps even allow bounty hunters to team up and split profits.
EvE is not about PvP.-á EvE is about the SANDBOX! - CCP!-á Open the door!!! |
Bienator II
madmen of the skies
579
|
Posted - 2012.02.13 14:13:00 -
[53] - Quote
the guy who did set the contract up can decide who signs the contract (e.g he has to sign after that). As i said its his responsibility to check the hunter if he is valid. e.g not an alt. Its more player controlled this way. The normal eve-style system will still work of course. This is only an *optional* add-on to that.
This allows to have payouts which are larger as the ship/pod value to add additional rewards to encourage specific hunters to get the job done faster. edit: If you put put too much on his head... you increase the risk that the victim will put a lot of effort to set up a alt hunter - but that would be a typical eve scam, thats something else as bounty system exploit ;)
current contract system won't be sufficient since it does not support this bi-directional contract signing (like a handshake). It is to anonymous for that task.
a eve-style bounty system https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=359105
You fail you fail you fail you fail you fail you fail you fail to jump because you are cloaked |
Monty Kvaran
Criminal Intentions
En Garde
16
|
Posted - 2012.02.13 16:13:00 -
[54] - Quote
Any fix to the bounty system needs to be balanced. The point of the bounty system should be to take revenge on those who have wronged you. Yet some of the ideas discussed in this thread would allow you to arbitrarily grief anyone with a low security status. Compounding this is that many pirates already maintain a high security status by grinding, and that anti pirates often take sec hits trying to fight actual pirates in lowsec.
I should not be able to make an otherwise concord protected target freely shootable in highsec just by paying for a certain bounty. This would just lead to people scouting out ships with high module values, placing a bounty, and blowing it up to collect the modules + some of the bounty they just placed.
I should not be able grief away someone's insurance just by setting a bounty. Every person with a low sec status would end up with a nominal bounty just to grief them, unrelated to why they have the sec status.
Arbitrary restrictions on who can collect a bounty will be totally ineffectual, anyone who really wants to game the system will just find an un-associated alt account/friend to game the system with.
The core idea however is great, and can be really simple: Bounty payout = X% of UNinsured loss of ship and/or pod (up to the amount of bounty placed). Your alt kills you, you still take a loss, and all you accomplish is reducing the bounty, and most pirates will prefer a high bounty anyway as a representation of their pvp prowess. |
Nestara Aldent
Citimatics
54
|
Posted - 2012.02.13 16:22:00 -
[55] - Quote
Someone will make a gambling establishment and a char with its name and put 500M bounty on it.
Someone will make alt for scamming in Jita and bounty will be placed on his head.
As these chars will never leave the station, your proposal is as broken as the current system.
The only way to fix the bounty system is to remove it. |
Bienator II
madmen of the skies
580
|
Posted - 2012.02.13 16:30:00 -
[56] - Quote
Nestara Aldent wrote:Someone will make a gambling establishment and a char with its name and put 500M bounty on it.
Someone will make alt for scamming in Jita and bounty will be placed on his head.
and where is the problem? Its a isk sink, nobody would be able to profit. Thats why nobody would do this just get a bounty, since the scamer would not be able to benefit from it. I believe you did not understand the proposal.
@Monty placing bounty on bad people is the point of bounty. If you have a low sec status you will have to live with that while having fun shooting people. Since you are into pvp anyway its even a good way to have more pvp if you have a bounty on your head..
its like forbidding highsec wardecs since you can grief people
a eve-style bounty system https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=359105
You fail you fail you fail you fail you fail you fail you fail to jump because you are cloaked |
Monty Kvaran
Criminal Intentions
En Garde
16
|
Posted - 2012.02.13 16:40:00 -
[57] - Quote
Bienator II wrote:
its like forbidding highsec wardecs since you can grief people
Highsec wardecs are a two way street. While the deccer usually has an advantage, the target can effectively fight back if they so choose, or just evade the dec. Its not really part of this thread, but I have no problem with a bounty hunter model, where bounties and bounty hunters can freely shoot each other. I do object to proposals that allow a bounty to be shot without any way for the bounty to proactively defend themselves.
Also, security status is a very bad proxy for how "evil" or deserving of a bounty a player is. |
Nestara Aldent
Citimatics
54
|
Posted - 2012.02.13 16:52:00 -
[58] - Quote
@Bienator
I'm more in favor of contract kill system. It's actually possible now, but without actual contract system, so you must rely on the other party honoring the agreement.
Simply I issue contract for killing someone. I may also put into contract that I will reimburse up to 200M or other amount of damages to mercenaries due to Concord if they're successful. I would be able to demand damage of certain ISK amount, or podding etc.
The contracts wouldn't advertise in CQ anymore, as they aren't bounties. |
Bienator II
madmen of the skies
580
|
Posted - 2012.02.13 17:38:00 -
[59] - Quote
Monty Kvaran wrote:Bienator II wrote:
its like forbidding highsec wardecs since you can grief people
Highsec wardecs are a two way street. While the deccer usually has an advantage, the target can effectively fight back if they so choose, or just evade the dec. Its not really part of this thread, but I have no problem with a bounty hunter model, where bounties and bounty hunters can freely shoot each other. I do object to proposals that allow a bounty to be shot without any way for the bounty to proactively defend themselves.
evading decs is just another indicator for a broken system ;) but thats off topic :P
ESBS is simply about fixing the bounty system. It does not change aggression mechanics at all. Why do you mean that the guy with the bounty has no way to defend himself? He has a low sec status and a bounty. Thats it basically.
Current situation: low sec status and a secondary wallet
a eve-style bounty system https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=359105
You fail you fail you fail you fail you fail you fail you fail to jump because you are cloaked |
Bienator II
madmen of the skies
580
|
Posted - 2012.02.13 17:41:00 -
[60] - Quote
Nestara Aldent wrote:@Bienator
I'm more in favor of contract kill system. It's actually possible now, but without actual contract system, so you must rely on the other party honoring the agreement.
Simply I issue contract for killing someone. I may also put into contract that I will reimburse up to 200M or other amount of damages to mercenaries due to Concord if they're successful. I would be able to demand damage of certain ISK amount, or podding etc.
The contracts wouldn't advertise in CQ anymore, as they aren't bounties.
contracts are nice. I like them ( https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=797668#post797668 ). However, bounties are a nice democratic (lol) way to express that somebody should lose a few ships ;)
the first does not exclude the second.
However: killing someone in an empty clone is meaningless in eve. Thats why the contract extension could benefit from the fixed bounty system.
edit:
see it this way:
- kill contracts work with everyone
- bounties only with those with a low sec status (you know... no risk no fun)
a eve-style bounty system https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=359105
You fail you fail you fail you fail you fail you fail you fail to jump because you are cloaked |
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