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How i would 'fix' local

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Joshua Foiritain	Posted - 2006.05.10 13:42:00 - [1] Change it to constellation, simple. Carebears can still see pirates incoming, they just dont know whether theyre in the star system with them or two jumps out. Pirates can still see carebears mining, they just dont know whether theyre in the star system with them or two jumps out. So whats the point you wonder? Well if you see a pirate in 'local' youre not sure if hes actually in system, so the channel works as an advanced warning but without a scout youre not gonna be sure where he/she actually is. So youre still warned but its not 100% accurate, since for all you know the guy is 3 jumps away. If you see a carebear in 'local' that means hes somewhere nearby, youll still have to scout various star systems to actually find him though. So while the system works as advanced scouting system for your prey it can also benefit the hunter as your prey will not know whether youre actually in system with him or simply 3 jumps out, this will most likely make him take the risk of coming back out. Flame away ^_^ ------- [Coreli Corporation Mainframe]
Chode Rizoum	Posted - 2006.05.10 13:43:00 - [2] that whould be nice
Jim McGregor	Posted - 2006.05.10 13:44:00 - [3] Im not sure if im missing something, but wouldnt it just be a big timesink trying to find people? --- The Eve Wiki Project
Paxam Leratharn	Posted - 2006.05.10 13:44:00 - [4] There's allready a "constellation" channel, for those who wish to join it. It's not mandatory though. And local's fine how it is.
Danton Marcellus	Posted - 2006.05.10 13:47:00 - [5] Originally by: Jim McGregor Im not sure if im missing something, but wouldnt it just be a big timesink trying to find people? It should be as I'd suspect the people you want to find doesn't want you to. Great idea, keeping the chatroom but making it fuzzy. Remind me about The Maze. I'm Danton Marcellus and I approve of this message.
Jim McGregor	Posted - 2006.05.10 13:49:00 - [6] Edited by: Jim McGregor on 10/05/2006 13:51:20 Originally by: Danton Marcellus Originally by: Jim McGregor Im not sure if im missing something, but wouldnt it just be a big timesink trying to find people? It should be as I'd suspect the people you want to find doesn't want you to. Great idea, keeping the chatroom but making it fuzzy. So basicly the idea is to make it harder for pirates/killers to find targets? What specific problems would this change address? Because i only see it as adding more difficulty finding specific players, or more difficult avoiding specific pirates. --- The Eve Wiki Project
Danton Marcellus	Posted - 2006.05.10 13:51:00 - [7] Originally by: Jim McGregor Originally by: Danton Marcellus Originally by: Jim McGregor Im not sure if im missing something, but wouldnt it just be a big timesink trying to find people? It should be as I'd suspect the people you want to find doesn't want you to. Great idea, keeping the chatroom but making it fuzzy. So basicly the idea is to make it harder for pirates/killers to find targets? Yes, effort should be rewarded. Remind me about The Maze. I'm Danton Marcellus and I approve of this message.
Jim McGregor	Posted - 2006.05.10 13:56:00 - [8] Originally by: Danton Marcellus Yes, effort should be rewarded. This would indeed make the game more boring. But i dont know, i might be missing the need for this... --- The Eve Wiki Project
Shinoobie	Posted - 2006.05.10 13:57:00 - [9] I personally feel this is a great idea. If you have a good scout, then there should be no problem finding them. People say this would be a timesink, isn't everything? Just get good at scouting. 5 minutes tops, I'd reckon it would take me to find a single hostile in a constellation. And I mean to the point of actually scrambling the person until backup arrived. Elite Scouting
Jim McGregor	Posted - 2006.05.10 13:59:00 - [10] Edited by: Jim McGregor on 10/05/2006 13:59:56 Originally by: Shinoobie I personally feel this is a great idea. If you have a good scout, then there should be no problem finding them. People say this would be a timesink, isn't everything? Just get good at scouting. 5 minutes tops, I'd reckon it would take me to find a single hostile in a constellation. And I mean to the point of actually scrambling the person until backup arrived. But what is the need for prolonging the time it takes to find somebody? You can scout just fine in one system too. You guys feel there is not enough time to escape from scary people or something? Im not sure why im almost alone in not understanding the need for this. Please help me. --- The Eve Wiki Project
Flyyn	Posted - 2006.05.10 14:01:00 - [11] Remove local.... replace with radar/sensor looking screen. Ranged out 2 au(?) Have symbols to repesent the ships, and color them for friendly, nuetraul, and hostile. OR.... Replace local with known ships in local (like overveiw) but ranged out to system coverage. No names just ship class. Dont mind me I am just trying to catch up to DS and HK on the boards....
Rawne Karrde	Posted - 2006.05.10 14:01:00 - [12] I agree too, only thing I would suggest is adjusted is that if your alliance has sov of the system.. or possibly the entire constellation you get accurate local like it is now.
Breaka	Posted - 2006.05.10 14:01:00 - [13] If it only takes you 5 minutes to scan an entire constellation....with 5 systems....average of 5 planets per system... 8 moons....5 belts....you ARE good. Bad idea
MuffinsRevenger	Posted - 2006.05.10 14:02:00 - [14] woud just make things to complicated me thinks, and imagine jita PLUS the systems around it in one chat-room :D
Joshua Foiritain	Posted - 2006.05.10 14:10:00 - [15] Originally by: Jim McGregor Edited by: Jim McGregor on 10/05/2006 13:51:20 Originally by: Danton Marcellus Originally by: Jim McGregor Im not sure if im missing something, but wouldnt it just be a big timesink trying to find people? It should be as I'd suspect the people you want to find doesn't want you to. Great idea, keeping the chatroom but making it fuzzy. So basicly the idea is to make it harder for pirates/killers to find targets? What specific problems would this change address? Because i only see it as adding more difficulty finding specific players, or more difficult avoiding specific pirates. It would make it easier for pirates actually, currently if you enter local you will be spotted and people will run from you. If you enter 'constellation local' people will know youre there but they wont know if youre in their system, hence theyll need to undock to go scout which allows pirates to find them as well. This system would reward the people who put in an effort by having scouts instead of the ones who are lazy and instadock whenever someone enters local. A current tactic for getting people by suprise is going AFK in local while youre doing real life stuff, the locals will get used to you being AFK inside the sys untill you come back, position your cov ops and they start dieing. The same tactic would work here on a larger scale as the tactic would work in the entire constellation. This system would make it harder for travelling pirates yet easier for pirates who live inside one constellation. Originally by: Breaka If it only takes you 5 minutes to scan an entire constellation....with 5 systems....average of 5 planets per system... 8 moons....5 belts....you ARE good. Thats easy with a scout ship and instas. ------- [Coreli Corporation Mainframe]
turnschuh	Posted - 2006.05.10 14:16:00 - [16] seriously why do some many ppl want to get "local" removed? tell me one good reason to do this if you area 0.0 player and not a pirate/merc/ganker. removing local would lead to totally uncontrollable envirement, no corp or alliance could defent themselfs. and guess what, CCP dont want this, they want that alliances can protect their space. so instead of removing local, alliances are getting sentry guns, pos jumpgates, cyno disruptor, etc local will never be removed and I totally agree with it.
Jim McGregor	Posted - 2006.05.10 14:21:00 - [17] Originally by: Joshua Foiritain It would make it easier for pirates actually, currently if you enter local you will be spotted and people will run from you. If you enter 'constellation local' people will know youre there but they wont know if youre in their system, hence theyll need to undock to go scout which allows pirates to find them as well. This system would reward the people who put in an effort by having scouts instead of the ones who are lazy and instadock whenever someone enters local. A current tactic for getting people by suprise is going AFK in local while youre doing real life stuff, the locals will get used to you being AFK inside the sys untill you come back, position your cov ops and they start dieing. The same tactic would work here on a larger scale as the tactic would work in the entire constellation. This system would make it harder for travelling pirates yet easier for pirates who live inside one constellation. If i was mining in some low sec space and couldnt trust local, i would run right away instead of bothering with scouts. Why take the chance when you are not combat fitted? And even if you try and scout, the guy can be in some other system when you find him, and then enter your system when you have gone back to mining. You wouldnt get any warning at all. So what are you going to do as the miner... avoid the whole constellation or be forced to take the chance that you still have some time before the pirate finds you? Is this really an improvement of the game? Besides, travelling in 0.0 would be very difficult since you would have to scout entire constellations. And even then you wouldnt be safe since people will move around between systems without you having a clue. --- The Eve Wiki Project
Sovy Kurosei	Posted - 2006.05.10 14:24:00 - [18] Originally by: Joshua Foiritain Change it to constellation, simple. One question, what exactly does this change fix with the current system we have running now? ___________________
ToxicFire	Posted - 2006.05.10 14:24:00 - [19] I think if local was seriously considered to be removed you'd have to take stuff away from the universe map such as number of pilots in a system and the ships destroyed in a system basicly anything that gives an active idea of how many people are where except for soverignty claims
Hesed	Posted - 2006.05.10 14:32:00 - [20] What about scanner noise for finding people or objects? You'd have constellation info, but if the scanner was made more complex, you'd have a lot more play. You could get a message of a faint warp core signature every time one came within 3AU, but it might turn out to be just an npc. Anything between 3AU-12AU is just a "faint signal" that could be anything, even nothing. Likewise, a lowslot for acquiring faint scans beyond 12AU is also fine. No more asteroids or moons or such inanimate objects without a special scan enhancer tool. At the most then, you might have a number of what's in the same system, but no names.
Roue	Posted - 2006.05.10 14:38:00 - [21] Fantastic! I totally support this idea. This may not be the end all of the issue but it is an immediate resolution that helps both sides of the parties find a center ground. This should be implimented immediately. It will offer the hunters a chance to catch greedy prey who don't make use out of the advanced warning and instead find themselves compelled to disregard "potential hostiles" as "potentially systems away" to continue mining. It will offer conservative or cautious prey a chance to evade with greater warning engagements as well as move through low sec with less specific locational alarm. It will make prey more difficult to ascertain as they could be in a constellations worth of stations. And low sec systems mixed with high sec in certain constellations will be confusing. In the end the prepared, skilled and cautious will win out with tactics and the less will lose. But the definition of engagement won't be as clearly relying on that single implement. Scouting will be more encouraged to know when a fleet leaves a specific system, and advanced warning sentries monitoring deep space constellations will offer more rally time for a defense advantage which has long been needed. DO IT.. omg this must be done!
Raven Aure	Posted - 2006.05.10 14:42:00 - [22] From a purely practical point of view, having over 1000 people would make it unworkable due to the amount of conversations. ______________________ Originally by: Jim McGregor Most people are in write-mode only in these forums 106 days and still a hijack virgin... Cherry popped! ~kieron OMGHI2U Kieron - Eshtir Eshtir, you stole my colour! - Vanamonde I wanna play - Petwraith
j0sephine	Posted - 2006.05.10 14:51:00 - [23] Interesting idea, but the drawback is kinda, instead of needing scouts in multiple systems to keep eye on possible fast moving enemy fleets, you'd now be getting a constellation range worth of early warning with no work at all...
Khajit Smitty	Posted - 2006.05.10 14:54:00 - [24] Didnt Oveur mention something about nerfing local ? Anyways i for one agree that local needs changing, the changing of it to constelation would to me make the most sense as apposed to removing it completly... There are many reasons to remove/change it, yes i live in 0.0, engage in pvp combat etc and i have seen what local does to engagements, it becomes a count and the force with a smaller fleet leaves, or ur solo snipers warp to a safe spot and log as they see local increase or recongnise pilots and the ships they fly, ambushes are hard to setup and targets are hard to catch as they know who is chasing them not from visual contact but from a local count or from alt/scouts. I have noticed in previous posts that people have said it will take too long to find the person, etc, yes it may but i dont think that you have applied some proper thought to this - at the moment you need to visit every system in a constelation to see if targets are about and guess what THERE MIGHT NOT BE ANY, where as with changing local to constelation, atleast you know that they are about - so in my mind it would lessen the time needed to some degree to locate that person. Claw of the Ancients is Recruiting Our home page
Jim McGregor	Posted - 2006.05.10 15:06:00 - [25] I think alot of you guys needs to see the whole picture. Yes, changing local to what is suggested would be good for fleet battles, but how would it affect other areas of the game? --- The Eve Wiki Project
Steiner	Posted - 2006.05.10 15:09:00 - [26] I realy like this idea, Pirates would get more surprise factor and the carebears get potencaly more peace at there mining ops since not everyone is willing to scann all the belts too see if there might be someone there, and even the carebears can scan them before they arrive. Would make more sense In my opinion. ---
Lord Slater	Posted - 2006.05.10 15:16:00 - [27] I sort of see what you are tying to do but all i can see it doing is basically killing off about 40 - 60% of empire mining. Because from experience you always ahve them watching local channel for known pirats to show up and when they do the mining stops. So if hostiles show up in a constilation channel then you are more likely to have 1 or more hostiles on there all the time. You see miners are cowards at heart and tend to hide when trouble shows up on local. YARRR HAHAHA im the happy pirate YARRRR
Hesed	Posted - 2006.05.10 15:22:00 - [28] Edited by: Hesed on 10/05/2006 15:23:38 Originally by: j0sephine Interesting idea, but the drawback is kinda, instead of needing scouts in multiple systems to keep eye on possible fast moving enemy fleets, you'd now be getting a constellation range worth of early warning with no work at all... Not on the edge of constellations. Also, comfort breeds overconfidence. Lack of knowledge results in inaction or alt scouting. In some cases of people in territory they know well, constellation wide info would reveal when anyone entered bottleneck for a pocket constellatino, or it might mean they just logged in somewhere. It's not really information at all then. Chronically overcrowded systems can be made their own constellation, but are more likely paired with unoccupied systems that are laggy by proxy anyway. Just so long as we don't get two busy systems in the same constellation.
Crumplecorn	Posted - 2006.05.10 15:24:00 - [29] Why not remove the list of people in local? It would work exactly as it does now, but you can choose not to be seen if you want, simply by not speaking. Just removing local would be bad, but I would like it to be replaced with a more realistic system, even if it's a system that does basically the same thing. ---------- Sorry but that link contains nawty language. -wystler "Discussing moderation is not allowed" - Ivan K "Ranting is prohibited" - Teblin
Joshua Foiritain	Posted - 2006.05.10 15:24:00 - [30] Originally by: Jim McGregor Originally by: Joshua Foiritain It would make it easier for pirates actually, currently if you enter local you will be spotted and people will run from you. If you enter 'constellation local' people will know youre there but they wont know if youre in their system, hence theyll need to undock to go scout which allows pirates to find them as well. This system would reward the people who put in an effort by having scouts instead of the ones who are lazy and instadock whenever someone enters local. A current tactic for getting people by suprise is going AFK in local while youre doing real life stuff, the locals will get used to you being AFK inside the sys untill you come back, position your cov ops and they start dieing. The same tactic would work here on a larger scale as the tactic would work in the entire constellation. This system would make it harder for travelling pirates yet easier for pirates who live inside one constellation. If i was mining in some low sec space and couldnt trust local, i would run right away instead of bothering with scouts. Why take the chance when you are not combat fitted? And even if you try and scout, the guy can be in some other system when you find him, and then enter your system when you have gone back to mining. You wouldnt get any warning at all. So what are you going to do as the miner... avoid the whole constellation or be forced to take the chance that you still have some time before the pirate finds you? Why would they scout? Because otherwise theyd be stuck inside a station for as the pirates remains in the constellation, for all you know hes docked at a station 3 jumps away, in which case you would know where hes coming from and you can keep an eye on said gate/direction. In order to truely make this work the scanner would have to work like the overview, so if you point at say a gate people would show up on it without having to spam the button. In this case the scout can find the pirates and the miners can keep an eye on the gate. Unless the pirate is smart and tries to flank them of course... While were at it, if you have sov on a sys you should be able to deploy a short range scanner at your pos. This gives you a detailed overview of all ships in the system. If you have constellation sovernighty you should be able to deploy a long range scanner at your POS, which shows you a list of pilots, their ships and which system of said constellation they are in. Originally by: ToxicFire I think if local was seriously considered to be removed you'd have to take stuff away from the universe map such as number of pilots in a system and the ships destroyed in a system basicly anything that gives an active idea of how many people are where except for soverignty claims I would prefer seeing a limit placed on the minimum amount of people required to be in a sys before they show on the map. Ie; if system population stays below 10 the system will be marked empty on the map, after that it gets accuratly listed. Originally by: Sovy Kurosei Originally by: Joshua Foiritain Change it to constellation, simple. One question, what exactly does this change fix with the current system we have running now? errr.... read my posts.... Originally by: Raven Aure From a purely practical point of view, having over 1000 people would make it unworkable due to the amount of conversations. That could be true, ive never been in a channel with 1k people though so i wouldnt really know. Originally by: j0sephine Interesting idea, but the drawback is kinda, instead of needing scouts in multiple systems to keep eye on possible fast moving enemy fleets, you'd now be getting a constellation range worth of early warning with no work at all... Well scouts tend to move faster then fleets in my experience, assuming theyve got a full set of gate to gate bms of course... ------- [Coreli Corporation Mainframe]

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