| Pages: [1] 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 .. 25 :: one page |
|
|
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 7 post(s) |
Karak Kashada
Dispensation
11
   |
Posted - 2014.04.10 19:08:00 -
[1] - Quote
I migrated to EVE from another MMO in January, 2014, at the energetic urging of a friend. "It is an awesome MMOG," he promised.
I must admit that, initially, the game appeared to have much to offer. The training missions awarded me with complimentary ships, free skills (that trained in minutes!), engagements with nasty pirates, and you got to fly through space at warp speed! Pretty cool. While zipping around the universe in my shiny Sukuuvestaa Heron, there seemed to be no limit to the adventures that surely awaited me in New Eden. After all, if the new-player content was this rewarding, surely the "real world"GÇöthe place where the danger really wasGÇöcould only offer an even greater experience. My mind was an endless sea of ideasGÇövisions of where I would go, the losses I would suffer, the scumbags I would pop, and the perils I would conquer.
A couple months later, reality has finally settled in, and it isn't pretty. EVE is not the exciting adventure I imagined it would be in those initial hours and days of playing. Quite frankly, it is an utterly maddening experiment in "hurry up and wait." I have concludedGÇöand there is no other conclusion that I can draw outside of cognitive dissonanceGÇöthat EVE is not a game you play; it is a game you wait to play.
What does that mean? It means that, once you get your noob ships and skills, advancing in the game is not a reflexive process at all. Nothing you do in-game will hasten your acquisition of the skills and ships you need to make your bigger EVE dreams a reality. You are stuck in a truly endless training queue. And there is no superlative in that statementGÇöthe training queue is endless. For no sooner do you conquer your first twenty-or-thirty-something-day training marathon, finally getting your hands on that coveted ship that promises to lift you to new heights, than you discover that you can't equip the mods you want for it without enduring an additional multi-week training queue for EACH of them. And after you have endured those as well, you will discover that, even then, your dream eludes you, because you still must endure many more multi-week training queues before you can fit all those mods on your ship anyway. Not enough CPU, not enough Power Grid. More skills needed. More waiting. Waiting. Waiting. Waiting. What appeared to be tolerable at the outset (a 20-or-so-day training wait), you discover is more like a 200-day training wait.
At this point, you have discovered EVE's dirty little secretGÇöyou don't play EVE to advance toward what you want; you wait for EVE to tell you that you can have what you've wanted since day one. The all-powerful "Requirements" tab is become your brutal and merciless master. And heaven forbid that you should, at any time, change your mind about what you want to be, or what class of ship you want to fly. For you will have to start a great deal of the training marathon over again.
EVE's is an outrageous advancement system. But don't misunderstand my position. The passage of time that precedes the acquisition of something of valueGÇöthis is not a reality that I necessarily oppose. What I oppose is the idea that a gameGÇöany gameGÇöshould be founded on the principle of play without reward. And make no mistake, aside from whatever reward a given player will ascribe to the game of his own will, EVE, as a game, does not inherently reward players for their play time, except with in-game currency. But, lo and behold, players can buy that with real money! So even that is not necessarily a reward. And money doesn't mean squat in EVE until your masterGÇöthe "Requirements" tabGÇötells you that you have something decent to spend it on.
It is stupefying to me that EVE has lasted as long as it has with this advancement system in place. Again, no superlative intended.
If you are an EVE veteran, I salute you. You have done what I cannotGÇöand will notGÇödo; you have endured the perpetual training cycles required to, at last, land you in the place you wanted to be. My time is simply worth more than what EVE offers in exchange.
If you are thinking about joining EVE, consider yourself forewarned. |
Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
4357
|
Posted - 2014.04.10 19:10:00 -
[2] - Quote
sad_trombone.wav
The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper 'Hodor'. |
Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari
End of Life
1109
|
Posted - 2014.04.10 19:12:00 -
[3] - Quote
I read the last line only.
I guess that summed up your post anyway. You should just TL;DR it at the top.
. -á<- Argue this, not this ->-á( -í-¦ -£-û -í-¦) |
Revman Zim
Common Sense Ltd
Nulli Secunda
241
|
Posted - 2014.04.10 19:12:00 -
[4] - Quote
TL:DR
*words... words*
EVE is hard.
*words words" |
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan
Council of Peace and Prosperity
3318
|
Posted - 2014.04.10 19:12:00 -
[5] - Quote
You should probably do some of the endless things you can do with Frig 3, Industry 1, Scanning 3 and Mining 1
Including all the things you dont need skills for.
Also, once you find a ship you really enjoy, max it out before going up the charts or you will end up in a 12500 EHP, 150 DPS Raven whose cap melts in 1min 50 secs
*** Vote MTU For CSM *** ***Free The Jita 1***
"They feel the need to cover their ears and eyes in horror at your very presence." - Pontianak Sythaeryn
"Despite others being missing, at least Ramona is back." - Scipio Artelius |
Karak Kashada
Dispensation
11
|
Posted - 2014.04.10 19:14:00 -
[6] - Quote
Your mockery doesn't dispute the facts I present, nor the conclusions I draw.
But thanks, I think, for posting. |
Karak Kashada
Dispensation
11
|
Posted - 2014.04.10 19:17:00 -
[7] - Quote
Scipio Artelius wrote:I read the last line only. If one doesn't bother to read the content of a post, what does his reply offer to the discussion?
If you don't take time to read the OP, please don't clutter the thread with empty replies.
Thanks. |
PotatoOverdose
Handsome Millionaire Playboys
1345
|
Posted - 2014.04.10 19:18:00 -
[8] - Quote
Karak Kashada wrote:My time is simply worth more than what EVE offers in exchange.
Ignoring the errors in the rest of your wall of text, there's a huge discrepancy here.
If you (incorrectly) assume the only thing holding you back is SP, then that takes absolutely none of your own personal time to remedy. Just setup your skill queue, log off, and go play cod or candycrush or whatever your little instant gratification heart desires. |
Karak Kashada
Dispensation
11
|
Posted - 2014.04.10 19:19:00 -
[9] - Quote
Revman Zim wrote:TL:DR
*words... words*
EVE is hard.
*words words"
The OP does not attempt to address the difficulty of the gameGÇöreal or perceived. Your reply is off-topic. |
Fransone
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
3
|
Posted - 2014.04.10 19:20:00 -
[10] - Quote
I have been playing for just over a month now, so not as long as you have. However I am not disillusioned at all, because I knew from day one that it has a 'Wait to Play' aspect to it. And that is perfectly fine.
One of the things that stopped me playing other MMO's like WoW is that there is almost no reward for being a 'veteran'. In games like WoW the only things you can work towards is pure vanity items like mounts, titles or achievements.
Compared to this game where I am ALWAYS improving in some way, and I am ALWAYS progressing towards some goal. Yes, this does take some time to achieve ingame goals, but I much prefer that than having everything handed to me. |
|
|
Karak Kashada
Dispensation
11
|
Posted - 2014.04.10 19:21:00 -
[11] - Quote
PotatoOverdose wrote:Karak Kashada wrote:My time is simply worth more than what EVE offers in exchange.
Ignoring the errors in the rest of your wall of text, there's a huge discrepanct here If you (incorrectly) assume the only thing holding you back is SP, then that takes absolutely none of your own personal time to remedy. Just setup your skill queue, log off, and go play cod or candycrush or whatever your little instant gratificarion heart desires.
There is no discrepancy in the words you quoted, nor have you correctly summarized how I value my game time.
Thanks for posting. |
Solecist Project
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
192
|
Posted - 2014.04.10 19:22:00 -
[12] - Quote
No, you can't buy ISK with real money.
You can buy PLEX or GTCs with real money.
If nobody buys them from you,
then you don't get a single ISK.
Anyhow, not reading through the rest.
Others can point out the errors too. |
Mag's
the united
SCUM.
17019
|
Posted - 2014.04.10 19:23:00 -
[13] - Quote
What was it that would have taken more than 200 days to train?
Destination SkillQueue:-
It's like assuming the lions will ignore you in the savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless. |
Natassia Krasnoo
R3D SHIFT
Brothers Of The Dark Sun
301
|
Posted - 2014.04.10 19:24:00 -
[14] - Quote
So I have to ask. Your stuff...can I have it?
Rewards for that time spent in EVE waiting on that skill to finish are self serving IMHO. Yes EVE does take time for some things. There is a ton you can do with low skilled pilots also, you just have to find what you like and get with a like minded group. Solo EVE is not conducive to fun. |
Herzyr
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
2
|
Posted - 2014.04.10 19:27:00 -
[15] - Quote
Well there's a saying, EvE is not for everyone, there's a reason they call it a ''mature'' MMORPG these days 
It's not like you have to ''wait'' for skills every time you want to fly a ship, you train those skils and that's it, you will not lose them.
Most skills work quite well at IV, and everyone does well with skills at IV, V is for specializations only and that's why they take so long.
I know new players are lured by the prospect of piloting huge ships but you will soon find that the joy of EvE tends to be from sub-capital ships, it sounds like you tried to start from the top but it doesn't work that way, you start from bottom to the way up, with the harsh death penalties of EvE, dying in a huge ship is gonna set you back ALOT which is why EvE teaches you to take it slowly.
For now, EvE seems like the final stop in my crave of MMORPGS, tell me what game offers the same or more than EvE? I rage quitted EvE in my beginning days because I didn't get it but the nagging feeling at the back of my head made me come back and I haven't left yet :) |
Karak Kashada
Dispensation
12
|
Posted - 2014.04.10 19:28:00 -
[16] - Quote
Fransone wrote:I have been playing for just over a month now, so not as long as you have. However I am not disillusioned at all, because I knew from day one that it has a 'Wait to Play' aspect to it. And that is perfectly fine.
One of the things that stopped me playing other MMO's like WoW is that there is almost no reward for being a 'veteran'. In games like WoW the only things you can work towards is pure vanity items like mounts, titles or achievements.
Compared to this game where I am ALWAYS improving in some way, and I am ALWAYS progressing towards some goal. Yes, this does take some time to achieve ingame goals, but I much prefer that than having everything handed to me.
Thanks for a direct, on-topic reply. Your post validates my conclusion that EVE's model is "hurry up and wait." And it makes clear that those who don't mind this dynamic will, or may, find satisfaction in EVE. That is fine.
What I find curious, if not backward, in your is that EVE's system, in my opinion, is the epitome of having things "handed to you." For, when it comes to acquiring a better ship or a better weapon, etc., there is nothing you can do to bring about that result. You don't earn those things. You don't merit them. EVE gives them to you for nothing. You don't have to play to get them. You just have to wait. And, of course, find something else to do while you wait. That, to me, is incredibly boring.
Thanks for the post. |
Space Juden
Supermassive Potato Pancake
71
|
Posted - 2014.04.10 19:28:00 -
[17] - Quote
Just log in to train skills for the first year or so
|
Volar Kang
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
127
|
Posted - 2014.04.10 19:29:00 -
[18] - Quote
LOL, read the title and thought it was a thread about having long waits to group up in null alliance fleets, left disappointed. |
Dalloway Jones
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
197
|
Posted - 2014.04.10 19:29:00 -
[19] - Quote
I take it this is another one of those "I want to fly a Titan on Day 1" posts. |
PotatoOverdose
Handsome Millionaire Playboys
1345
|
Posted - 2014.04.10 19:29:00 -
[20] - Quote
Karak Kashada wrote:PotatoOverdose wrote:Karak Kashada wrote:My time is simply worth more than what EVE offers in exchange.
Ignoring the errors in the rest of your wall of text, there's a huge discrepanct here If you (incorrectly) assume the only thing holding you back is SP, then that takes absolutely none of your own personal time to remedy. Just setup your skill queue, log off, and go play cod or candycrush or whatever your little instant gratificarion heart desires. There is no discrepancy in the words you quoted, nor have you correctly summarized how I value my game time. Thanks for posting.
That's my point though. Updating your skill queue takes no time at all. You can take ten seconds to update your queue once a week and do literally *anything* else in RL or in any other game. If anything, eve caters to those players whose time has value as you don't have to spend 200 hours of mind numbing grind just to level your character. |
|
|
Karak Kashada
Dispensation
12
|
Posted - 2014.04.10 19:29:00 -
[21] - Quote
Solecist Project wrote:No, you can't buy ISK with real money.
You can buy PLEX or GTCs with real money.
If nobody buys them from you,
then you don't get a single ISK. Though my point was a simplification, in that it did not include various conditions under which it would be made 100% accurate, the point is valid.
|
Dalloway Jones
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
197
|
Posted - 2014.04.10 19:31:00 -
[22] - Quote
I blame the parents. Kids today don't have to work to earn anything. They just ask for it and they get it. Insufferable, self-entitled brats, all of them. |
Karak Kashada
Dispensation
12
|
Posted - 2014.04.10 19:33:00 -
[23] - Quote
Natassia Krasnoo wrote:So I have to ask. Your stuff...can I have it? Ha! That is awesome. You are a true opportunist. I will defer making a decision on this, however, until I have a chance to discuss with my my boy how badly he wants to keep playing. If he wants to stick around, I will do so for him. Otherwise you can have my stuff.
Natassia Krasnoo wrote:Rewards for that time spent in EVE waiting on that skill to finish are self serving IMHO. Yes EVE does take time for some things. There is a ton you can do with low skilled pilots also, you just have to find what you like and get with a like minded group. Solo EVE is not conducive to fun.
Good points. I agree. And, aside from the other things I said in the OP, since I'm a solo player, EVE has nothing substantial to offer me. |
Fransone
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
3
|
Posted - 2014.04.10 19:33:00 -
[24] - Quote
Karak Kashada wrote:Fransone wrote:I have been playing for just over a month now, so not as long as you have. However I am not disillusioned at all, because I knew from day one that it has a 'Wait to Play' aspect to it. And that is perfectly fine.
One of the things that stopped me playing other MMO's like WoW is that there is almost no reward for being a 'veteran'. In games like WoW the only things you can work towards is pure vanity items like mounts, titles or achievements.
Compared to this game where I am ALWAYS improving in some way, and I am ALWAYS progressing towards some goal. Yes, this does take some time to achieve ingame goals, but I much prefer that than having everything handed to me. Thanks for a direct, on-topic reply. Your post validates my conclusion that EVE's model is "hurry up and wait." And it makes clear that those who don't mind this dynamic will, or may, find satisfaction in EVE. That is fine. What I find curious, if not backward, in your is that EVE's system, in my opinion, is the epitome of having things "handed to you." For, when it comes to acquiring a better ship or a better weapon, etc., there is nothing you can do to bring about that result. You don't earn those things. You don't merit them. EVE gives them to you for nothing. You don't have to play to get them. You just have to wait. And, of course, find something else to do while you wait. That, to me, is incredibly boring. Thanks for the post.
Ultimately everyone plays the game they want to be playing. For us that means different things, and that is completely fine. I dont see how EVE's system is handing me stuff. When I have the SP to fly a Tengu it doesnt mean I can. I also have the acquire the ISK to do so. And once I do have the Tengu and I explode, then I need to work to get another one.
But as I said, everyone plays for different reasons, and if EVE's way of doing things isnt to your liking then find something or some game that you do enjoy :)
|
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan
Council of Peace and Prosperity
3320
|
Posted - 2014.04.10 19:35:00 -
[25] - Quote
So what about all the things you can do with a low skill set that I alluded to?
Doing your skills is as much a game as the main game itself if you want something fancy, but theres dozens of things that can be done with low or even no skills.
Theres no problm in EvE that there isnt a solution to
*** Vote MTU For CSM *** ***Free The Jita 1***
"They feel the need to cover their ears and eyes in horror at your very presence." - Pontianak Sythaeryn
"Despite others being missing, at least Ramona is back." - Scipio Artelius |
PotatoOverdose
Handsome Millionaire Playboys
1345
|
Posted - 2014.04.10 19:37:00 -
[26] - Quote
I have to ask, what exactly it is that you want to do that recquires so much SP? |
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
Late Night Alliance
5161
|
Posted - 2014.04.10 19:38:00 -
[27] - Quote
Posting my usual skillpoint spiel.
- All skills cap at level 5. No matter how many years you have played the game, you cannot exceed that limit. And lower level skills (ex. [Racial] Frigate) are very quick to train relative to more advanced skills.
- (*this is the important one*) Only a limited number of skills affect any one ship, module, weapon system, and specialty at any given time.
Ex1: You are a newbie facing someone with about 20 million SP... but how much of that overall SP is actually combat related? He/she could be a HUGE industrial player with limited combat skills.
Ex2: A veteran player has just trained up the skill Large Hybrid Turret to level 5. That skill in no way affects the skill Small Hybrid Turret and thus the veteran will be no better or worse than before at the frigate level.
- Getting a skill from level 4 to level 5 only adds on an extra 2% here, 5% there (exceptions apply). If you simply train up all the skills within a specialty to level 4 (which takes ~20% of the amount of time it takes to get those skills to level 5), you will find yourself flying at about 80 to 90% of the effectiveness of a multi-year veteran with those same skills in that specific specialty at level 5.
- Getting a skill to level 5 is supposed to be a painful train. Many players (yes, even veteran ones) opt to avoid doing it and instead train up other skills to level 4 (again, because it's faster).
- Ships and weapons have been balanced against one another.
Ex: A battleship can potentially instapop a frigate... but the frigate can fly very fast, making it difficult for the battleship's weapons to track, especially at very close range... then again, the battleship can deploy drones to deal with the frigate... and the frigate can shoot the drones down... however the battleship might have a Large Energy Neutralizer fitted to nuke the frigate's capacitor power every 24 seconds... in which case the frigate could use a Small Nosferatu that sucks out capacitor from the battleship every 3 seconds... etc. etc.
- High tech equipment (ex. T2, Faction, Officer, etc) will not give a player "I WIN" abilities. It simply gives a player a linear edge at an exponentially higher cost.
Ex: A group of two or three T1-fit frigates that cost about 500 thousand to 1 million ISK CAN kill a faction frigate worth about 50 to 100 million ISK... provided they are using the right mods in the right configuration and know what they are doing.
tl;dr...
- Having more skillpoints is not the "end all, be all" point of the game and there is more to most activities than just "open window, click, press F1- F9." There are a plethora of factors that can decide success or failure and many of them are purely abstract in nature (see: planning, meta-gaming, friends, short-term allies, making deals, psychological warfare, etc).
Plus... you may not be able to pilot that sexy Interceptor right away... but that doesn't mean you can't slap together a super fast ship that does something similar.
- once you have your "universal" core and support skills near or at maximum (which takes about 2 or 3 months of focused training) the gap between you and an older player begins to narrow quite significantly.
- part of the idea behind the current SP system is that you can't "powergrind" to success. You MUST learn how to utilize what you have first... which requires you to use your head and be creative. This helps you later on when you can finally use "better" ships/equipment... because you have hopefully familiarized yourself with the underlying mechanics that most Tech 1 ships/equipment utilize.
Change isn't bad, but it isn't always good. Sometimes, the oldest and most simple of things can be the most elegant and effective.
"How did you veterans start?" |
Organic Lager
Devils Diciples
League of Infamy
31
|
Posted - 2014.04.10 19:38:00 -
[28] - Quote
In a sense isk is xp in eve as it is required for advancment. If you buy plex it will indeed ruin your first few months the same way buying a level 80 (no idea what the level cap is now) paladin with all bis gear will ruin your game in WoW. If you progress normally you should always be working to earn isk towards that next ship while your skills improve until you can both finance and fly your desired goal. |
Karak Kashada
Dispensation
15
|
Posted - 2014.04.10 19:39:00 -
[29] - Quote
Herzyr wrote:Well there's a saying, EvE is not for everyone, there's a reason they call it a ''mature'' MMORPG these days It's not like you have to ''wait'' for skills every time you want to fly a ship, you train those skils and that's it, you will not lose them. Most skills work quite well at IV, and everyone does well with skills at IV, V is for specializations only and that's why they take so long. I know new players are lured by the prospect of piloting huge ships but you will soon find that the joy of EvE tends to be from sub-capital ships, it sounds like you tried to start from the top but it doesn't work that way, you start from bottom to the way up, with the harsh death penalties of EvE, dying in a huge ship is gonna set you back ALOT which is why EvE teaches you to take it slowly. For now, EvE seems like the final stop in my crave of MMORPGS, tell me what game offers the same or more than EvE? I rage quitted EvE in my beginning days because I didn't get it but the nagging feeling at the back of my head made me come back and I haven't left yet :)
I'm glad that you find some satisfaction in EVE. The OP, of course, was not making the point that such was impossible. I'll just offer, in reply, that the nuances you've described were very clear within the first two weeks of playing. My OP was written with due consideration of such things. |
Karak Kashada
Dispensation
15
|
Posted - 2014.04.10 19:40:00 -
[30] - Quote
Space Juden wrote:Just log in to train skills for the first year or so
Right. Wait a year to play. That was my point. Just not for me. Might not be for others, either. Hence, the thread. |
|
|
|
|
| |
|
| Pages: [1] 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 .. 25 :: one page |
| First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |