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Ramjam Giles
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Posted - 2006.05.14 11:17:00 -
[61]
Edited by: Ramjam Giles on 14/05/2006 11:21:00
Just a quick question.
Where are the bonuses for missiles or shields on the Caldari BS?
And only 4 launchers allowed out of 8 slots. I think not.
The tier-3's should be either toned down version of the navy issue ships or pocket-dreads that can use gates.
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El Yatta
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Posted - 2006.05.14 11:25:00 -
[62]
 Originally by: Ramjam Giles
Edited by: Ramjam Giles on 14/05/2006 11:21:00
Just a quick question.
Where are the bonuses for missiles or shields on the Caldari BS?
And only 4 launchers allowed out of 8 slots. I think not.
The tier-3's should be either toned down version of the navy issue ships or pocket-dreads that can use gates.
Absolutely clueless... why on earth would the caldari tier 3 have missile bonuses? Caldari are railguns as well, kid, and its about time they got their railgun bs.
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Jim McGregor
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Posted - 2006.05.14 11:38:00 -
[63]
Edited by: Jim McGregor on 14/05/2006 11:40:09
Originally by: Ramjam Giles
Edited by: Ramjam Giles on 14/05/2006 11:21:00
Just a quick question.
Where are the bonuses for missiles or shields on the Caldari BS?
And only 4 launchers allowed out of 8 slots. I think not.
The tier-3's should be either toned down version of the navy issue ships or pocket-dreads that can use gates.
The caldari tier 3 is designed as a turret ship since Raven already fills the need for a missile boat. CCP is wise and instead of making the ships more powerful than previous tiers, they are making them different to fill a different role in the game.
That being said, i think tier 3 looks a bit more powerful than tier 1/2 though.. but we'll see in Kali.
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The Eve Wiki Project |
Epsilon 1
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Posted - 2006.05.15 04:13:00 -
[64]
Originally by: Ramjam Giles
Edited by: Ramjam Giles on 14/05/2006 11:21:00
Just a quick question.
Where are the bonuses for missiles or shields on the Caldari BS?
And only 4 launchers allowed out of 8 slots. I think not.
The tier-3's should be either toned down version of the navy issue ships or pocket-dreads that can use gates.
Mate,
This= Caldari tier 1 bs
And this= tier 2 caldari bs. So, would you rather have this or THIS 
Originally by: Steven Gerrard
Why do those minmatarians throw their ships together from toilet paper and junk?
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Espen
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Posted - 2006.05.15 09:09:00 -
[65]
lololol
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BlackHorizon
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Posted - 2006.05.15 09:13:00 -
[66]
Originally by: Epsilon 1
Originally by: Ramjam Giles
Edited by: Ramjam Giles on 14/05/2006 11:21:00
Just a quick question.
Where are the bonuses for missiles or shields on the Caldari BS?
And only 4 launchers allowed out of 8 slots. I think not.
The tier-3's should be either toned down version of the navy issue ships or pocket-dreads that can use gates.
Mate,
This= Caldari tier 1 bs
And this= tier 2 caldari bs. So, would you rather have this or THIS
It's about time the Caldari got a good mining battleship.
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Tresh Keen
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Posted - 2006.05.15 09:18:00 -
[67]
argh, only 4 launcher for the caldari BS - that cant be true - where is the missile Version of the 3tier BS? If i want to fly some Turret Ships - i skill other races....
gruml
Cheers, Tresh
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Ithildin
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Posted - 2006.05.15 09:27:00 -
[68]
OP : Initial reaction is that you're late (as has been stated), however, comparing stats I see that the scrap data of old has the Amarr BShip as having 7 turrets. Also, the Gallente one only had one bonus (of 10%). These are perhaps newer.
Originally by: Gierling
Edited by: Gierling on 13/05/2006 16:37:15
Edited by: Gierling on 13/05/2006 16:22:26
Gallente one needs to lose its damage bonus in favor of a falloff bonus. Thats a bonus that helps Blasters significantly, already exists on other Gllente ships, and is still somewhat useful in fleet use.
And a caldari one with an optimal AND A damage bonus just outclasses every other battleship in the game. If it gets an optimal and a damage bonus it should have no more then 5 guns tops.
First paragraph: I'd rather be able to outdamage a Tempest than fight it in a slower, less damaging, and as long ranged ship. DigitalCommunist's idea about a stronger damage bonus for blasters only is very appealing to say the least.
Second paragraph: Yes, I'm very dissappointed. Although 5*1.25 turrets is perhaps a bit excessive on the nerf-side. Rather 6 turrets - though I am much more in favour, again, of Digi's suggestion of losing the damage bonus for a resist bonus.
New sig coming soonÖ
Drone musing (MC-boards) |
keepiru
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Posted - 2006.05.15 10:12:00 -
[69]
Welll, considering the resists on these things, its probably fair to say the bonuses are a little nuts, and dont really reflect on what we'll actually see in-game...
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Please fix BC Sig/Agility! |
James Lyrus
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Posted - 2006.05.15 10:30:00 -
[70]
I'll worry about stats when I see them on the test server :).
At first glance, these don't look finished.
(And I still think the Caldari Tier 3 should have hybrid optimal and shield resists, like the Moa)
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We are recruiting
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Sarmaul
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Posted - 2006.05.15 11:00:00 -
[71]
Ok, it's time for an impromptu "Caldari Ships For Clueless Idiots" session.
Caldari have 3 main types of ships - railgun snipers, ecm ships, and missile ships. Lets look at the ecm ships first.
ECM Ships
T1 Frigate: Griffin (10% ecm cap needs)
T1 Cruiser: Blackbird (5% ecm cap needs, 20% ecm optimal range)
Recon Ship: Rook/Falcon (5% ecm cap needs, 20% ecm optimal range, 5% ecm strength)
Battleship: Scorpion (20% ecm optimal range, 5% ecm strength)
As you can see, caldari have at least 1 ECM ship in the 3 main ship classes (frigates, crusiers and battleships).
Missile Ships
T1 Frigate: Kestrel (10% bonus to kinetic missiles, 5% bonus to other missiles)
Assaullt Frigate: Hawk (bonuses unknown - will be changed in Kali)
Interceptor: Crow (10% kinetic missile damage, 10% missile velocity)
Interdictor: Flycatcher (10% velocity, 5% precision, 5% kinetic damage)
T1 Cruiser: Caracal (5% kinetic damage, 10% missile velocity)
HAC: Cerberus (5% kinetic damage, 10% missile velocity, 10% flight time, 5% rate of fire)
Battlecruiser: New Teir 2 (coming with Kali - bonuses unknown)
Command Ship: Nighthawk (10% heavy missile target nav prediction, 5% heavy missile kinetic damage, 5% heavy missile precision)
Battleship: Raven (5% rof, 10% missile velocity)
Dreadnought: Phoenix (5% kinetic damage, 5% rof)
As you can see, loads of missile ships in every class.
Railgun Ships
T1 Frigate: Merlin (10% optimal range, 5% shield resistances)
Assault Frigate: Harpy (10% optimal range x 2, 5% damage)
Interceptor: Raptor (10% optimal range, 5% damage)
Destroyer: Cormorant (10% optimal range, +50% optimal range)
Cruiser: Moa (10% optimal range, 5% shield resistances)
HAC: Eagle (10% optimal range x 2, 5% shield resistances, 5% damage)
Battlecruiser: Ferox (10% optimal range, 5% shield resistances)
Command Ship: Vulture (10% optimal range x 2, 5% shield resistances)
Battleship: The new tier 3 (most probably 10% optimal range, 5% shield resistances)
Look you see - almost every size and type of caldari ship has a sniping railboat in it, and after Kali the progression will be complete with the tier 3 battleship. In fact, the only size of ship caldari don't have a railboat is the dreadnought.
Now, please, STFU ABOUT THE CALDARI TIER3 BEING A RAIL BOAT BECAUSE "CALDARI DON'T USE RAILS" YOU IDIOTS. kthx
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Disco Flint
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Posted - 2006.05.15 11:38:00 -
[72]
Originally by: Epsilon 1
Originally by: Ramjam Giles
Edited by: Ramjam Giles on 14/05/2006 11:21:00
Just a quick question.
Where are the bonuses for missiles or shields on the Caldari BS?
And only 4 launchers allowed out of 8 slots. I think not.
The tier-3's should be either toned down version of the navy issue ships or pocket-dreads that can use gates.
Mate,
This= Caldari tier 1 bs
And this= tier 2 caldari bs. So, would you rather have this or THIS
omg...  ever since that name "Owl" was thrown around for the new Caldari BS I thought "damn, Id associate OWL more with a quiet night in the belts than with a rail-boat firing thundering broadsides over tremendous distances"... it all makes sense now! those bonuses for the Tier3 Caldari BS will be +10% mining yield, -5% cycle time per level o.O
on topic: Yay for the Caldari BS being a railboat!
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Twilight Moon
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Posted - 2006.05.15 11:59:00 -
[73]
Originally by: Tresh Keen
argh, only 4 launcher for the caldari BS - that cant be true - where is the missile Version of the 3tier BS? If i want to fly some Turret Ships - i skill other races....
Aww.
Heaven forbid.....you might have to branch out your skill training. 
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Teles666
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Posted - 2006.05.15 12:02:00 -
[74]
Originally by: DeathWarrior
minimatar just gets 1 bonus?
Is it a mistake or does it have 1500s shield recharge? So basically a ship bonus of 25% shield recharge rate!
The new passive tank champion perhaps? :)
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Sarmaul
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Posted - 2006.05.15 12:08:00 -
[75]
Originally by: Teles666
Originally by: DeathWarrior
minimatar just gets 1 bonus?
Is it a mistake or does it have 1500s shield recharge? So basically a ship bonus of 25% shield recharge rate!
The new passive tank champion perhaps? :)
also, it's probably going to be a 10% rof bonus, meaaning with bs 5 you double your damage output
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Crellion
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Posted - 2006.05.15 12:20:00 -
[76]
1) DG got it right about the Gallente one.
2) Caldari with 5% dmg and 5-10%optimal is overpowered???????? and Minmattar with 8 turrets and a rof bonus isnt???????? (especially if its a double rof bonus as suggested). You are kidiing me right? This tier 3 minnie will make everybody over 20 mill SP fly only that in fleet... It will wtfbbq the Caldari version from 5km to >>>> 220km with tech II 1400 proj (the the Caldari one will win from 220km >>> 249km ... talk about niche  )
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Sarmaul
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Posted - 2006.05.15 12:24:00 -
[77]
Originally by: Crellion
1) DG got it right about the Gallente one.
2) Caldari with 5% dmg and 5-10%optimal is overpowered???????? and Minmattar with 8 turrets and a rof bonus isnt???????? (especially if its a double rof bonus as suggested). You are kidiing me right? This tier 3 minnie will make everybody over 20 mill SP fly only that in fleet... It will wtfbbq the Caldari version from 5km to >>>> 220km with tech II 1400 proj (the the Caldari one will win from 220km >>> 249km ... talk about niche )
25% damage and 50% optimal will render the megathron completely useless in fleets. The reason caldari railboats follow the 25% shield res/50% optimal is to prevent such things from happenening. You can choose range or damage, but not both.
As for minmatar, the alpha strike will be exactly the same as if you put them on an apoc (yes, the apoc has a higher alpha than the tempest) - you just won't have to wait 10 seconds to get another shot off.
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Crellion
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Posted - 2006.05.15 12:26:00 -
[78]
Originally by: Sarmaul
Originally by: Teles666
Originally by: DeathWarrior
minimatar just gets 1 bonus?
Is it a mistake or does it have 1500s shield recharge? So basically a ship bonus of 25% shield recharge rate!
The new passive tank champion perhaps? :)
also, it's probably going to be a 10% rof bonus, meaaning with bs 5 you double your damage output
So a Caldari one that uses bucket loads of capa for guns and active shield boosting and a Minmattar one that uses no cap for guns, does 30% more dmg per turret, has 1 more turret slot, is immune to Nosing (with passive shield tank but has only 220 optimal (249 falloff) compared to Caldari's 249 optimal 
looks great
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Crellion
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Posted - 2006.05.15 12:28:00 -
[79]
Originally by: Sarmaul
Originally by: Crellion
1) DG got it right about the Gallente one.
2) Caldari with 5% dmg and 5-10%optimal is overpowered???????? and Minmattar with 8 turrets and a rof bonus isnt???????? (especially if its a double rof bonus as suggested). You are kidiing me right? This tier 3 minnie will make everybody over 20 mill SP fly only that in fleet... It will wtfbbq the Caldari version from 5km to >>>> 220km with tech II 1400 proj (the the Caldari one will win from 220km >>> 249km ... talk about niche )
25% damage and 50% optimal will render the megathron completely useless in fleets. The reason caldari railboats follow the 25% shield res/50% optimal is to prevent such things from happenening. You can choose range or damage, but not both.
As for minmatar, the alpha strike will be exactly the same as if you put them on an apoc (yes, the apoc has a higher alpha than the tempest) - you just won't have to wait 10 seconds to get another shot off.
So its not rly a DPS issue then just an issue of not having to be so patient... gee thanx Sarmaul 
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Twilight Moon
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Posted - 2006.05.15 12:30:00 -
[80]
Edited by: Twilight Moon on 15/05/2006 12:33:27
Edited by: Twilight Moon on 15/05/2006 12:30:57
Originally by: Crellion
So a Caldari one that uses bucket loads of capa for guns and active shield boosting and a Minmattar one that uses no cap for guns, does 30% more dmg per turret, has 1 more turret slot, is immune to Nosing (with passive shield tank but has only 220 optimal (249 falloff) compared to Caldari's 249 optimal
looks great
I tend to find that most things over 20km away are immune to NOS regardless. Also, is there something stopping the Caldari mounting a Passive Shield tank too? Oh and never ind that for the Minni ship to get up to 220km range it has to sacrifice tanking slots, while the Caldari gets an optimal bonus on the ship (so more slots for tanking).
But, oh no....please Devs....give the Caldari a bigger boost, preferably one that extracts the majority of their heads from up their own arses.
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Sarmaul
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Posted - 2006.05.15 12:36:00 -
[81]
Edited by: Sarmaul on 15/05/2006 12:37:03
the caldari teir 3 bs can hit out to about 225km with spike with no extra modules needed. One sensor booster will put it's lock range at 200km. That leaves it 6 slots to tank with (tank with long range weapons? gosh, I wish minny could do that) and it can still fit 3 damage mods, a damage control and something else (armor rep for fleets just in case).
sounds like a good ship to me.
edit: finally, seeing as the logical progression states that caldari will get a shield resistance bonus, it can run a better passive tank than the minny one. kthx
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Crellion
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Posted - 2006.05.15 12:38:00 -
[82]
Originally by: Twilight Moon
Edited by: Twilight Moon on 15/05/2006 12:30:57
Originally by: Crellion
So a Caldari one that uses bucket loads of capa for guns and active shield boosting and a Minmattar one that uses no cap for guns, does 30% more dmg per turret, has 1 more turret slot, is immune to Nosing (with passive shield tank but has only 220 optimal (249 falloff) compared to Caldari's 249 optimal
looks great
I tend to find that most things over 20km away are immune to NOS regardless. Also, is there something stopping the Caldari mounting a Passive Shield tank too?
If you have been in pvp a lot you will know that things dont always go as planned so immunity to NOS is always a good thing. No BS at present has immunity to NOS. Not a single one. Also this means that you can fire your guns and tank foreva.
As for stopping and starting... I dont know how viable the passive tank will be on either of the two ships (with the posted stats) tbh and generally I find passive tank set ups to be good in a very limited set of circumstances .... howver in the context of this particular discussion lokk at the sec of shield regen of both Caldari and Mini tier 3s. The mini one has an inbuilt passive tank to a great extent (that will be nicelly enhanced by using slots). The Caldari one will have to use many high and low slots for tracking and sensor boosting and dmg mods for the guns (same as the minnie one). Therefore their "passive shield tank" will rely on 2-3 slots. On the stats as posted this will produce a pathetic tank for the Caldari and an adequate tank for the Minm.
Understood? 
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Crellion
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Posted - 2006.05.15 12:41:00 -
[83]
Edited by: Crellion on 15/05/2006 12:43:55
Sarmaul whats that about 1 sensor booster snipper et up on the Caldari snipper BS? You want to import the time-delay over from the missle boats as a generic Caldari trait?
(Eagle with 3 sensor boostII 4tw )
Also the argument "choose range or damage" at BS lvl after tech II long range ammo is as old and smelly as my first ever pair of football sox kthnx
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Sarmaul
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Posted - 2006.05.15 12:50:00 -
[84]
Edited by: Sarmaul on 15/05/2006 12:51:45
well, it's not like you haven't got the slots spare to increase your lock time ;)
bs dps
bs alpha
those graphs assume 50% optimal for caldari tier 3 and 50% rof for minmatar tier3. feel free to draw your own conclusions
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Crellion
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Posted - 2006.05.15 12:56:00 -
[85]
Originally by: Sarmaul
Edited by: Sarmaul on 15/05/2006 12:51:45
well, it's not like you haven't got the slots spare to increase your lock time ;)
bs dps
bs alpha
those graphs assume 50% optimal for caldari tier 3 and 50% rof for minmatar tier3. feel free to draw your own conclusions
I read them. Minnie uberxxxpownz Caldari up to 150 simply pownz up to 220 and loses 220-249... which is more or less what I posted but seeing it in a graph makes it even clearer so thnx
I still believe this is way unbalanced o c
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Sarmaul
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Posted - 2006.05.15 13:04:00 -
[86]
bs alpha (javelin and quake)
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Twilight Moon
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Posted - 2006.05.15 13:07:00 -
[87]
Originally by: Crellion
howver in the context of this particular discussion lokk at the sec of shield regen of both Caldari and Mini tier 3s. The mini one has an inbuilt passive tank to a great extent (that will be nicelly enhanced by using slots). The Caldari one will have to use many high and low slots for tracking and sensor boosting and dmg mods for the guns (same as the minnie one). Therefore their "passive shield tank" will rely on 2-3 slots. On the stats as posted this will produce a pathetic tank for the Caldari and an adequate tank for the Minm.
Understood?
No.
The Minnimatar one, while it has good base shield passive regen, only has 5 med slots, whereas the Caldari one, while it has less regen to begin with, has 2 extra mid slots, and needs to use fewer mid slot mods to get out to 200km+ range than the Minmatar ship.
Therefore it can fit more tanking mods over the Minni, negating the Minni's original bonus.
Also....a compare a full rack of the top teir long range guns (1400mm T2's vs 425mm T2's) on both ships. the Minnmatar ship is going to need a hell of a lot more fitting mods to get them on there.
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Sarmaul
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Posted - 2006.05.15 13:09:00 -
[88]
Originally by: Twilight Moon
Originally by: Crellion
howver in the context of this particular discussion lokk at the sec of shield regen of both Caldari and Mini tier 3s. The mini one has an inbuilt passive tank to a great extent (that will be nicelly enhanced by using slots). The Caldari one will have to use many high and low slots for tracking and sensor boosting and dmg mods for the guns (same as the minnie one). Therefore their "passive shield tank" will rely on 2-3 slots. On the stats as posted this will produce a pathetic tank for the Caldari and an adequate tank for the Minm.
Understood?
No.
The Minnimatar one, while it has good base shield passive regen, only has 5 med slots, whereas the Caldari one, while it has less regen to begin with, has 2 extra mid slots, and needs to use fewer mid slot mods to get out to 200km+ range than the Minmatar ship.
Therefore it can fit more tanking mods over the Minni, negating the Minni's original bonus.
Also....a compare a full rack of the top teir long range guns (1400mm T2's vs 425mm T2's) on both ships. the Minnmatar ship is going to need a hell of a lot more fitting mods to get them on there.
actually the OP is wrong. it should be 8/7/5 for caldari, 8/5/7 for gallente and 8/6/6 for minmatar
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Hugh Ruka
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Posted - 2006.05.15 13:19:00 -
[89]
I think with these stats Caldari will show Gallente what a proper hybrid ship is (blaster and rail).
I hope they will be changed ... the gallente ship needs a tracking bonus imho.
make the caldari either double hybrid optimal or optimal+shield res like merlin/moa/ferox.
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if you want peace, prepare for war ...
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Removed due to offensive content - Laqum
I realy liked my signature. Oh well |
Gierling
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Posted - 2006.05.15 13:38:00 -
[90]
IMHO, I don't want these ships to make existing ships redundant.
ALthough it looks like a lost cause, It appears as if CCP want these to be the fleetbattle kings.
I'm used to being laughed at if I chow up to a fleet fight in my Domi (its not right but it happens), Now I get to be laughed at for showing up to a fleet fight in a MEga... yay thats great. COmpletely pushing existing ships out of thier niche for new and shiny ships.
Power Creep, Power Creep, Power Creep.... its bad for MMOG's. I'm an old player, I like EVE, I don't need a reacharound to keep me playing. Frankly If I can't use some of the content that I'm already so fond of anymore, that just diminishes the fun of the entire game.
PRoposal to fix blobbing and make Charisma useful.
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