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Captain Budwieser
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Posted - 2006.05.14 01:00:00 -
[31]
Edited by: Captain Budwieser on 14/05/2006 01:07:12
Quote: may i point out that taking a macroers ore WITHOUT NOTIFYING VIA PETITION FIRST, AND WAITING FOR REPLY implcaites you as a macro miner too, and you may get banned. petition, or be warned =P
how can you get banned for taking ore from anybody ? ore theft is part of the game as designed by CCP, its not your fault if you mistakenly take from somebody that might possibly be macro mining...
and there in lies the problem with this list, that without getting access to somebodys PC and spotting the macro running you cant actually tell one way or the other, you can only guess
i wonder really how many of these "macros" there really are, it likely that they are reasonably few and limited to lazy people with a couple of accounts the real problem in the game are people that get payed to mine for the express purpose of e-bay sale isk and they are not "macro miners" because if you provoke them long enough they will gabble at you in pictograms or bad English (altho often as not they are incapable of speaking to you in any way you can understand and so wont reply to convos unless you really make a disruption in their op,which you stealing for an hour or 2 isnt) and as far as i can tell they arnt actually breaking any rules by controlling 10 accounts at once
the only actually rule broken is by the person that actually sell the isk and often as not that person probably doesnt even play the game
how do i know this? i had a long chat via google translator with a chinese person that claimed to be a 19 year old girl who played 12 hours a day 6 days a week in return for lodgings she controled 4 med barges and a hauler on 1 PC in a room full of people doing the same thing in shifts
there was no macro involved
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Da Death
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Posted - 2006.05.14 01:57:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Gretek Lal I'm against macro miners and other cheaters, and I think it's great that some players are taking action against them...
But it's a little weird that someone has enough game time to spend doing something like hunting down and punishing cheaters instead of just doing his own thing. Me, I don't have nearly enough free time to play Eve.
it has psychological origins, its some kind of compensation and of course its hunting too, even it won't get you anything. I would call them sympathy hunters. Many years I see those folks 'declaring war on cheaters' -its amusing. And if 'anyone' not psychotic like them, then 'you must be a macro miner tooo!!!' attitude starts up.
As I said: people paying money to hunt macro miners, its amusing LOL
Absolution - Curse - T2 Laser Crystals - T2 Drones and more -> check Bio
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Diemex
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Posted - 2006.05.14 01:59:00 -
[33]
You could get banned.
This is how. CCP gets a petition from someone sometime... they decide to look into it. They find the macrominer.... and there YOU are hauling the ore out. They could just assume that YOU are part of the macro team doing the hauling for the miners.
If you do a petition.... then they know you are just there making some quick cash off them and you should be safe.
I've yet to spot a macro miner.... I hope I do though... I got me a bestower that can haul 12000 M3 and I could sure use some quick easy isk.... I would feel good about it too knowing that at the same time I am reducing the profits of those who harm the eve community by ruining the economy. If enough people do it so that it becomes prohibitively expensive.... they will just vanish...
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Da Death
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Posted - 2006.05.14 02:00:00 -
[34]
Edited by: Da Death on 14/05/2006 02:04:50
Originally by: D'onryu Shoqui ahahahahahha i just got a nice abusive email from AETIIUS because of what i said in this thread
mail me with your main bigman or go steal ore with your alt using macro miners as an excuse.
interesting! I received hatemail from him too. He had no arguments, so he started to get personal. as I already said, if your not 'hardcore psychotic' like those psychos they alienate you
CCP should take all time to fix the bugs/problems of server instead get flooded with macro petitions. Macro mining is wrong but getting crazy about it, is wrong too.
Absolution - Curse - T2 Laser Crystals - T2 Drones and more -> check Bio
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Captain Budwieser
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Posted - 2006.05.14 02:07:00 -
[35]
Edited by: Captain Budwieser on 14/05/2006 02:11:19
Quote: This is how. CCP gets a petition from someone sometime... they decide to look into it. They find the macrominer.... and there YOU are hauling the ore out. They could just assume that YOU are part of the macro team doing the hauling for the miners.
and you say ah but look at the ips that connect to those accounts and CCP will (hopefully) and it will be clear there is no link between you and the supposed macro
Kinda obvious when you have a group of accounts all from 1 place and theres you from somewhere else that there is no link
Quote: If you do a petition.... then they know you are just there making some quick cash off them and you should be safe
Petition them for what? did you macro detector start beeping? can you see what that other player is doing? no you can only guess and i really dont think its anybodys place to start shouting macro when they dont have a clue what they are on about Im quite happy to steal from people that i feel have too many barges and too much isk and wont notice a little bit missing How am i sposed to know they arent legit players ? CCP themselves obviously cant easily proove it or they would be banned right ?
I dont think anybody would get banned fro stealing from a macro ,as i find it most unlikely CCP would punish an innocent player for simply playing the game as intended that was unfortunate enough to fall victim to somebody that isnt
Its been discussed to death and ore theft is allowed, you arnt required to do a macro check first
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Anatoray
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Posted - 2006.05.14 02:21:00 -
[36]
Hey, I'm all against ganking macro miners, so long as my corp out on a mining run isn't mistaken for one.
But to be honest, if you really wanna do something about it, make an alt, and go sign up with kfcc. that ****es off the macro miners no end, when they check their pc, and all their miners are dead.
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CynWulf
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Posted - 2006.05.14 03:34:00 -
[37]
to all you nay sayers. Ive worked with Pratorean in our system. He is an avid manufacturer, miner and trader. I've also been on macro hunt with him. this may be an Alt but it's an active alt and I'm sure that Preatorion has no problem telling folks who his other toons are. I myself have actually started a wiki project on my own server were folks can go and update the names and locations of Macros and isk farmers. Frankly I'm tired of seeing systems raped by these guys... makes it hard to produce anything when you can mine anything... and if you know anything about economics then you see how this affests the ingame Economy. so to those of you who are busting his balls think before you speak... those that support his efforts good for you... and as my wife says.. If ya dont have anything nice to say.... Come sit by me. Praetorian check your eve mail bud.
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macrokiller99a
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Posted - 2006.05.14 04:14:00 -
[38]
Die Macros. Die!!!!
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Miss Overlord
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Posted - 2006.05.14 08:30:00 -
[39]
wel petition ones u think look suss if CCP have a few petitions from u they are less likley to group u with the macroers
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Laulosiak
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Posted - 2006.05.14 08:47:00 -
[40]
i occationally go mine omber in .6 space so i can come here & troll the forums or take a cat nap its hard to accept messages when you cant see the screen
so there no absolute way to tell if there macro mining? the CSR's in SWG could come & check out another player & see if there cheating (sploting) or using a macro in places they are not allowed (DWB coal bins) we dont have them in EvE???
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Sharon Lynn
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Posted - 2006.05.14 10:42:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Da Death Edited by: Da Death on 14/05/2006 02:04:50
Originally by: D'onryu Shoqui ahahahahahha i just got a nice abusive email from AETIIUS because of what i said in this thread
mail me with your main bigman or go steal ore with your alt using macro miners as an excuse.
interesting! I received hatemail from him too. He had no arguments, so he started to get personal. as I already said, if your not 'hardcore psychotic' like those psychos they alienate you
Maybe you should petition him, dunno if it would help
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Laulosiak
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Posted - 2006.05.14 10:45:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Laulosiak i occationally go mine omber in .6 space so i can come here & troll the forums or take a cat nap its hard to accept messages when you cant see the screen
so there no absolute way to tell if there macro mining? the CSR's in SWG could come & check out another player & see if there cheating (sploting) or using a macro in places they are not allowed (DWB coal bins) we dont have them in EvE???
i know there has to be cuz the have moderators for the forums....how lame.
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Aetiius
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Posted - 2006.05.14 11:34:00 -
[43]
Pratorien is my alt. Not the other guy you mentioned named .. Praetorien>
On a side note I created a kessie death squad with noob chars to kill some macro miners today. I am also hoping some of those idiots do not have up to date clones !!
Anyone interested in making a kessie death squad char send me an evemail and you can join up with me. I have a huge list of macro miners in covetors so should atleast make up your money for the kessie death :) Most of the miners are in citadel region if that helps.
If you support macro mining.. tsk tsk you are as pathetic as them
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ObiDoom Kenobi
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Posted - 2006.05.14 12:08:00 -
[44]
I'm as against Macro Miners as much as the next guy, but I'm also against this stealing from Macro Miners thing too. If it's wrong for them to profit from Macro Mining then why is it ok for you to? Unless you're trashing the minerals you steal I say that it's still profiting from cheating and no better.
Blowing them out of the sky on the other hand sounds perfectly reasonable to me. No reason why you can't punish them by ending their illegal mining op, but just sponging off a cheater isn't any better then actually being a cheater.
--EVE Online, for people that love sci-fi, but don't want Lucas screwing it up... |
Jenny Spitfire
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Posted - 2006.05.14 12:09:00 -
[45]
Jenny Spitfire - Raven ---------------- RecruitMe@NOINT! Corporate Consultation Services |
Bland Inquisitor
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Posted - 2006.05.14 12:09:00 -
[46]
Stealing from macrominers doesnt make u any better off - You are still stealing, i.e a thief, th only way u would make a diffrence is to blow the ore up, so put it in your can and kill it, making sure the ore cannot be used to do anything with.
I have seen many a person in local attempt to justify stealing ore from so called *macroers* as i have no doubt yours are correct aswell. But if you steal it. You are the same and as bad as they and deserve 0 respect from the eve community.
Just my two sence
Lost Dawn Technologies - We Kinda Rock! - Recruitment Open :D
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GLok
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Posted - 2006.05.14 12:15:00 -
[47]
Just casue they found a way to make money faster than you doesnt exactly make them cheaters does it?
I mean how do we know that you dont macro mine with all these accounts you have just made
Just stop complaining and post about something worth reading --------------------
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M4RY J4NE
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Posted - 2006.05.14 12:29:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Kristen Ambrais So lemme get this straight. You've made a bunch of ore thiefs just to steal from their cans.
Taking their ore is just as bad as if you mined that ore yourself.
lots of people will probably say this so just answering this one post could save a lot of time:
[a] If its in a JETTISON CAN explain to me how its theft? [b] If the ore goes into a players wallet rather than out of the game and onto ebay explain to me how thats bad? [c] If CCP are slow to respond explain your solution to stop the miners profiting in the mean time.
keep on stealing that ore OP, just make sure you petition them as thieves at the same time then everyones happy
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ObiDoom Kenobi
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Posted - 2006.05.14 15:28:00 -
[49]
Originally by: M4RY J4NE
[a] If its in a JETTISON CAN explain to me how its theft? [b] If the ore goes into a players wallet rather than out of the game and onto ebay explain to me how thats bad? [c] If CCP are slow to respond explain your solution to stop the miners profiting in the mean time.
A) That's the definition of theft, which is why there are aggression countdowns and the like. That's like saying that if you break into someone's car and steal their radio it isn't theft because they weren't in it at the time. B) First, if macro mining is cheating (which it is) then anyone who profits from it is cheating, period end of story. If you're goal is to punish macro miners then blow them up or destroy the minerals they mine. Instead people are stealing the minerals and keeping them, which isn't nearly as noble as they're claiming. It's merely benefiting from cheating second hand, and it's just as bad. Second, how does everyone know that the macro miner intends to sell something on Ebay? It's my understanding that most of the ebay sellers are shops set up to do farming 24/7 and not individual players that are macro mining (although I suppose there could be exceptions). If you look on Ebay there are tons of people selling macro miners there to individuals. Most likely if you're stealing from a macro miner you're stealing from someone that was going to use the minerals to build something, or use the ISK to buy something. C) Don't try to do CCP's work for them. It isn't your job to police the game and steal from cheaters. You're "solution" isn't a solution at all, it merely sets it up so that more people are benefitting from cheating, not less. If CCP viewed this as a priority and something that was threatening the game they would find a way to fix it. But the reality is that 6 months ago 20k concurrent users was a record and now it's normal, so the game seems to be doing just fine without your help.
--EVE Online, for people that love sci-fi, but don't want Lucas screwing it up... |
M4RY J4NE
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Posted - 2006.05.14 16:37:00 -
[50]
I appreciate your opinion, but would retort:
Originally by: ObiDoom Kenobi
A) That's the definition of theft, which is why there are aggression countdowns and the like. That's like saying that if you break into someone's car and steal their radio it isn't theft because they weren't in it at the time.
er no actually its like saying that someone has thrown a can of drink out of their car and then you have taken it. Jettison = trash = fair game. Thats why there are secure containers and afaik the criminal flagging was implemented primarily to stop whiners whining.
Originally by: ObiDoom Kenobi
B) First, if macro mining is cheating (which it is) then anyone who profits from it is cheating, period end of story. If you're goal is to punish macro miners then blow them up or destroy the minerals they mine. Instead people are stealing the minerals and keeping them, which isn't nearly as noble as they're claiming. It's merely benefiting from cheating second hand, and it's just as bad.
very black and white view you have there. If the alternatives are [1] let them keep the ore, or [2] you take the ore, which would you do then? Bear in mind most of this goes on in empire so unless you are lucky enough to happen across a drone-n00b-macrominer you are going to get concorded for blowing up the can. So: [1] or [2]?
Originally by: ObiDoom Kenobi
Don't try to do CCP's work for them. It isn't your job to police the game and steal from cheaters
I dont recall saying that was the intention, nor did the OP afaik. Also that only makes sense if you consider taking jettisoned items stealing. Since I dont im just stealing from an easy target. If it happens to **** em off enough that they go ruin someone elses game then thats even better.
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Arcticblue2
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Posted - 2006.05.14 17:11:00 -
[51]
I used to do some mining and producing but stopped because the systems well region infact where filled with macroes, I know they where after we tested them alot.
Yet even when we did send petitions after petitions they still roam around... one called Minerking01 (think it was got like 3 characters with same nick different number) still logs on and off from time to time. that means ... every day.
This character have been petitioned countless times. And yes I know it is a macrominer, no miner would let me steal 110 000 isogen from them without saying anything. That was from a single evening.
I also used to hunt them but honestly ... it just ruins my game so I stopped and so did most of the guys in my corp and we all do missions now.
---------------------------------------------- "When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I felt as a child, I thought as a child: now that I am become a man, I have put away childish things." 1 cor. |
Khemul Zula
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Posted - 2006.05.14 23:37:00 -
[52]
I used to play around with this whole macro hunting thing. Course I am a thief. I will steal if the opportunity appears. Never thought much of the people who justify thievery by saying they are stealing from cheaters so it is different. Just admit you are a thief.
My main problem with macro hunting is the people who do it arn't nearly as carefull as they believe they are. Many go with the attitude that if its looks like a macro it is a macro. I quit the hunting after the third time argueing that a group looked A LOT like a macro op but obviously wasn't. Each time they had names that looked similar and none of them responded to chat, while mining. Catch them while they are not mining and they talked plenty. Each time I was told "Well they must be farmers so they are fair game." People just use "macro" as an excuse to kill or steal too much. I know there are plenty of people who think they are careful and KNOW the person is a macro, but it just becomes so easy for the hunter to justify any action by claiming "macro."
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ObiDoom Kenobi
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Posted - 2006.05.15 10:18:00 -
[53]
Bottom line is this:
If you loot the cans and destroy the minerals then you truly care about what macro miners do to the economy and you're motivated by the desire to set things right.
If you loot the cans and keep the minerals then you aren't motivated by the desire to set things right but instead your motivation is greed and finding an easy mark. If you knowingly steal from macro miners then you are knowingly using minerals that were earned by cheating and that makes you a cheater.
Rationalize it however you want, but at the end of the day you're profiting from cheating...
--EVE Online, for people that love sci-fi, but don't want Lucas screwing it up... |
Captain Budwieser
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Posted - 2006.05.15 11:00:00 -
[54]
Edited by: Captain Budwieser on 15/05/2006 11:02:04
Quote: i occationally go mine omber in .6 space so i can come here & troll the forums or take a cat nap its hard to accept messages when you cant see the screen
so there no absolute way to tell if there macro mining? the CSR's in SWG could come & check out another player & see if there cheating (sploting) or using a macro in places they are not allowed (DWB coal bins) we dont have them in EvE???
ok im just making this up as i go along, i havent read the EULA and im probably wrong..... but
as far as i am aware the only way to 100% prove use of any sort external program to automate tasks in eve would be to scan the hard drive (or possibly memory) of the player involved, much like anti cheats used to in the fps game Halflife I think its fairly unlikely that there is any part of the EULA that says you allow CCP to do this, in HL they got round it by telling you to disconnect from the server if you didnt like it or somesuch but it was a flawed system anyway sinse there were ways of hiding cheats from this hd scan For all those people that are on the macro witch hunt and saying CCP should do something about it, thats what your talking about... giving access to your pc, something that i wouldnt be all that happy about and by no means foolproof anyway If they were doing that in SWG they were either guessing or gaining physical proof somehow and if you guess and the player says "wtf i didnt do anything omg your wrong you banned me blah blah blah" what can you say ? in a game where you pay a sub you must be able to prove that cheating actually happened , this imo is probably why CCP wisely leaves well alone
i dont think macros are a huge problem and if you steal from them for any length of time you get an idea of how much they are actually making mining in empire, and stealing from them is almost as boring as actually mining for yourself so i doubt anybody made a career from it
Forget about the possible macros and stealing from them, there ar emuch faster ways of making isk for yourself and when your rich you migth find you simply dont care anymore
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tuade
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Posted - 2006.05.15 11:53:00 -
[55]
Edited by: tuade on 15/05/2006 11:53:58
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Martin Gore
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Posted - 2006.05.15 17:52:00 -
[56]
Well I reported 6 guys still macro mining/farming 23hrs a day (yes I know this as I've been logging them).
I convoed each one of them...took 4 mins to get an answer, all they could say was "hi" then warp to station.
THey allways jettison a can caleed a random number say "222262726627" with a bookmark in it (sure sign of macro the bm in a can)
If you take the bm a new can gets put out instantly. It's nearly impossible to take ice from can as it's inhumanly taken the millesecond it goes into can by the hauler.
This is in the jita ice belts. All characters begin with "FEIN********" totally obvious.
The GM said he will look into this, will be interesting to see how long it takes if at all the are banned.
My guess is they wont.
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Hurada
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Posted - 2006.05.15 18:08:00 -
[57]
Edited by: Hurada on 15/05/2006 18:13:18 Edited by: Hurada on 15/05/2006 18:12:20 Well, I sent my list of suspected macroers to CCP. Maybe if they get enough fingers pointed at the same characters then they'll have a look. And I admit I cannot be sure about all of them. I dont think we can expect CCP to slap bans on everyone thats reported for it.
Damage to EVEs economy is obviously the worst outcome of macroers but I dont think it has got that far yet. The main problem I see is that they strip the belts in high sec leaving no goodies for the real miners. Last time I tried to mine (allbeit solo) in high sec it simply wasnt worth the trouble. (Sec cans cruiser mining in .5)
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Martin Gore
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Posted - 2006.05.15 18:13:00 -
[58]
Edited by: Martin Gore on 15/05/2006 18:16:03 feihustar, feilongstar, feilionstar, feiwolfstar,feimaster, and the hauler "ty008"
I've been bouncing these guys 30k from their can. For ages. The hauler STILL comes to pick up ore even though there is none!!! No reaction at all from barges all covetors. If ccp can't see that this isn't macroing/farming then there is no hope
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Hurada
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Posted - 2006.05.15 18:30:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Captain Budwieser
ok im just making this up as i go along, i havent read the EULA and im probably wrong..... but
as far as i am aware the only way to 100% prove use of any sort external program to automate tasks in eve would be to scan the hard drive (or possibly memory) of the player involved, much like anti cheats used to in the fps game Halflife I think its fairly unlikely that there is any part of the EULA that says you allow CCP to do this, in HL they got round it by telling you to disconnect from the server if you didnt like it or somesuch but it was a flawed system anyway sinse there were ways of hiding cheats from this hd scan For all those people that are on the macro witch hunt and saying CCP should do something about it, thats what your talking about... giving access to your pc, something that i wouldnt be all that happy about and by no means foolproof anyway If they were doing that in SWG they were either guessing or gaining physical proof somehow and if you guess and the player says "wtf i didnt do anything omg your wrong you banned me blah blah blah" what can you say ? in a game where you pay a sub you must be able to prove that cheating actually happened , this imo is probably why CCP wisely leaves well alone
EULA Linkage
Originally by: EULA
ii. Termination of EULA *snipped 1-3* (iv) CCP becomes aware of game play, chat or player activity under your Account that is, in CCP's discretion, inappropriate or in violation of the Rules of Conduct.*snip*
The rules of conduct I presume says no macroing, suggesting they dont need proof. However not all EULAs stand up in court.
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Berak FalCheran
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Posted - 2006.05.15 18:32:00 -
[60]
berak falcheran is a GIANT macrominer.
i think he pirates with macro's too. and i saw his alt running missions (macro!? i thik!@#).
YOU LOVE THE BLINKING
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