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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
Brewlar Kuvakei
Adeptio Gloriae
262
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Posted - 2014.04.20 09:55:00 -
[1] - Quote
Having used Siphon units for the past few weeks I've found them to be fairly entertaining and serving a purpose barely. Is CCP going to make changes to the units when they introduce medium and large or has this project just been left to redundancy?
The units themselves can be be totally safeguarded against via clever pos management. A pos manager farming high end moon material can set up cheap reactions on his pos safeguarding his moon goo from the siphon. CCP will have allow Siphon users the ability to choose what material their siphon targets to keep them relevant. Having different types of Siphons that steal different stages could be an easy work around for this ie a siphon that only steals moon materials, one that only steals finished products ect. ect.
The Siphons also need more defence either greater HP such as a POS currently has and possibly need a reinforcement time such as a pos or mobile depot. The Siphon costs are also on the high side with a unit only paying for itself after 24 hours on an average moon. Its simply a coin flip currently dropping 1bn isk worth of siphons will either lose you 1 billion if caught, break even or could make upwards of 1-2 billion daily if left unmolested which currently is not likely.
As of current the siphon needs a massive buff with all the advantage being with the pos owner. CCP you will need to buff them when you introduce the larger variants or they will simply remain a pointless market item.
One idea would be for the units to cloak unless a ship comes within activation range this would force pos owners to look for them or watch them being looted. These cloaking units could have a higher price than normal units. |
Elizabeth Norn
Nornir Research
213
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Posted - 2014.04.20 10:56:00 -
[2] - Quote
Brewlar Kuvakei wrote:A lot of Cadmium is sourced from low sec moons held by null alliances. The moons are getting siphon units dropped on them which means they now have to be patrolled and stolen Cadmium paid for. This is driving up the price.
I've been using the Siphon units and the turn over is pretty good you can make a couple of bill a day but the grind is boring and its hit or miss if you get your siphons detected by the owner you've lost your investment. CCP needs to lower the price of Siphon units and twerk some changes when they introduce larger siphons.
http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/more-deployables-from-super-friends/ (I'm not sure about the terms, is this relevant?)
Nothing but Brewlar here, move along. .
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Brewlar Kuvakei
Adeptio Gloriae
262
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Posted - 2014.04.20 11:01:00 -
[3] - Quote
That post says nothing, we need siphon units that target raw materials so POS owners can protect moon goo with worthless reactions. There is no point in CCP introducing broken content, the last patches have all been about fixing content so why have they now introduced broken siphon units? |
Solecist Project
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
546
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Posted - 2014.04.20 11:03:00 -
[4] - Quote
Brewlar Kuvakei wrote:That post says nothing, we need siphon units that target raw materials so POS owners can protect moon goo with worthless reactions. There is no point in CCP introducing broken content, the last patches have all been about fixing content so why have they now introduced broken siphon units? We need.
You mean to say "I need".
Why are you so butthurt about them being smart enough to counter your attempt? |
Brewlar Kuvakei
Adeptio Gloriae
262
|
Posted - 2014.04.20 11:06:00 -
[5] - Quote
Solecist Project wrote:Brewlar Kuvakei wrote:That post says nothing, we need siphon units that target raw materials so POS owners can protect moon goo with worthless reactions. There is no point in CCP introducing broken content, the last patches have all been about fixing content so why have they now introduced broken siphon units? We need. You mean to say "I need". Why are you so butthurt about them being smart enough to counter your attempt?
What is smart about having broken content? Why even introduce siphon units in the first place if they are not going to work as intended. Hopefully we will get some dev clarification on the introduction of units that can ignore reactions allowing us to steal what we want. |
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan Council of Peace and Prosperity
3412
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Posted - 2014.04.20 11:11:00 -
[6] - Quote
Brewlar Kuvakei wrote: What is smart about having broken content? Why even introduce siphon units in the first place if they are not going to work as intended. Hopefully we will get some dev clarification on the introduction of units that can ignore reactions allowing us to steal what we want.
What makes it broken?
*** Vote MTU For CSM *** ***Free The Jita 1*** "They feel the need to cover their ears and eyes in horror at your very presence." - Pontianak Sythaeryn "Despite others being missing, at least Ramona is back." - Scipio Artelius |
Abrazzar
Vardaugas Family
2910
|
Posted - 2014.04.20 11:13:00 -
[7] - Quote
My guess is that the syphon units are just a prototype to experiment on certain code added and to get some numbers of player activities. Similar with the 'bounty balloon unit'.
Are players willing to snap at the ankles of the lions if you give them the opportunity and tools to do so? Yes/No. Sovereignty and Population New Mining Mechanics |
Brewlar Kuvakei
Adeptio Gloriae
262
|
Posted - 2014.04.20 11:15:00 -
[8] - Quote
Ramona McCandless wrote:Brewlar Kuvakei wrote: What is smart about having broken content? Why even introduce siphon units in the first place if they are not going to work as intended. Hopefully we will get some dev clarification on the introduction of units that can ignore reactions allowing us to steal what we want.
What makes it broken?
Valuable POS harvest such as high end moon goo can be protected by running worthless or cheap reactions. The Siphon unit always steals from the last item in a chain, so as long as the pos owner runs a worthless reaction on the end the siphon unit can not steal the valuable material.
Introducing a siphon unit that steals only raw material will end this exploit. I was just looking for dev clarification for a time scale on the fix. |
Solecist Project
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
548
|
Posted - 2014.04.20 11:15:00 -
[9] - Quote
Brewlar Kuvakei wrote: What is smart about having broken content? Why even introduce siphon units in the first place if they are not going to work as intended. Hopefully we will get some dev clarification on the introduction of units that can ignore reactions allowing us to steal what we want.
You are not answering my question.
It is not broken, just because they outsmart you.
Why are you butthurt about them countering your attempt to steal from them? |
Solecist Project
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
550
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Posted - 2014.04.20 11:17:00 -
[10] - Quote
Brewlar Kuvakei wrote:Ramona McCandless wrote:Brewlar Kuvakei wrote: What is smart about having broken content? Why even introduce siphon units in the first place if they are not going to work as intended. Hopefully we will get some dev clarification on the introduction of units that can ignore reactions allowing us to steal what we want.
What makes it broken? Valuable POS harvest such as high end moon goo can be protected by running worthless or cheap reactions. The Siphon unit always steals from the last item in a chain, so as long as the pos owner runs a worthless reaction on the end the siphon unit can not steal the valuable material. Introducing a siphon unit that steals only raw material will end this exploit. I was just looking for dev clarification for a time scale on the fix. Oh, so now it's an exploit, because they outsmart you?
What about the fact that they run "worthless reactions" now, because of you trying to steal stuff from them? |
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Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan Council of Peace and Prosperity
3413
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Posted - 2014.04.20 11:18:00 -
[11] - Quote
Solecist Project wrote:Brewlar Kuvakei wrote:Ramona McCandless wrote:Brewlar Kuvakei wrote: What is smart about having broken content? Why even introduce siphon units in the first place if they are not going to work as intended. Hopefully we will get some dev clarification on the introduction of units that can ignore reactions allowing us to steal what we want.
What makes it broken? Valuable POS harvest such as high end moon goo can be protected by running worthless or cheap reactions. The Siphon unit always steals from the last item in a chain, so as long as the pos owner runs a worthless reaction on the end the siphon unit can not steal the valuable material. Introducing a siphon unit that steals only raw material will end this exploit. I was just looking for dev clarification for a time scale on the fix. Oh, so now it's an exploit, because they outsmart you? What about the fact that they run "worthless reactions" now, because of you trying to steal stuff from them?
This all of this
Someone outsmarting you does not make a mechanism broken
This isnt going to be "fixed" because it isnt broken.
*** Vote MTU For CSM *** ***Free The Jita 1*** "They feel the need to cover their ears and eyes in horror at your very presence." - Pontianak Sythaeryn "Despite others being missing, at least Ramona is back." - Scipio Artelius |
Brewlar Kuvakei
Adeptio Gloriae
262
|
Posted - 2014.04.20 11:19:00 -
[12] - Quote
Abrazzar wrote:My guess is that the syphon units are just a prototype to experiment on certain code added and to get some numbers of player activities. Similar with the 'bounty balloon unit'.
Are players willing to snap at the ankles of the lions if you give them the opportunity and tools to do so? Yes/No.
Exactly CCP made them to stimulate null alliances realising it was far to easy to maintain ISK farms once established, these units when fully developed will cause this to occur. In their current form they can be ignored via reaction exploit and they are still far to easy to detect and remove to cause any stimulation in the protection of moon goo POS. |
Solecist Project
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
550
|
Posted - 2014.04.20 11:19:00 -
[13] - Quote
He doesn't care if the units are broken.
"It's an exploit when the others use it to their advantage." |
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan Council of Peace and Prosperity
3413
|
Posted - 2014.04.20 11:21:00 -
[14] - Quote
Solecist Project wrote:He doesn't care if the units are broken, his tiny ego just got hurt because he realized they deny him his silly satisfaction.
I'd say first it was him who laughed at them because he could inflate his ego ... ... and now they laugh at him because his fake self esteem popped like a bubble.
He's an insult to the name Kuvakei
*** Vote MTU For CSM *** ***Free The Jita 1*** "They feel the need to cover their ears and eyes in horror at your very presence." - Pontianak Sythaeryn "Despite others being missing, at least Ramona is back." - Scipio Artelius |
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan Council of Peace and Prosperity
3413
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Posted - 2014.04.20 11:22:00 -
[15] - Quote
Brewlar Kuvakei wrote: Exactly CCP made them to stimulate null alliances realising it was far to easy to maintain ISK farms once established, these units when fully developed will cause this to occur. In their current form they can be ignored via reaction exploit and they are still far to easy to detect and remove to cause any stimulation in the protection of moon goo POS.
Your misunderstanding of their purpose does little to support any idea they should be changed to suit your intended purpose for them. *** Vote MTU For CSM *** ***Free The Jita 1*** "They feel the need to cover their ears and eyes in horror at your very presence." - Pontianak Sythaeryn "Despite others being missing, at least Ramona is back." - Scipio Artelius |
Brewlar Kuvakei
Adeptio Gloriae
262
|
Posted - 2014.04.20 11:22:00 -
[16] - Quote
Well only time will tell if CCP intends for Siphon units to be content or if they should just be placed inside a station container alongside my Anaconda mines. The null bear rage when they get the new siphon units working is gonna be epic. :) Look forward to reading the first dev post here.
Daddy needs a new siphon unit, moon goo only please :) |
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan Council of Peace and Prosperity
3413
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Posted - 2014.04.20 11:24:00 -
[17] - Quote
Brewlar Kuvakei wrote:Well only time will tell if CCP intends for Siphon units to be content or if they should just be placed inside a station container alongside my Anaconda mines. The null bear rage when they get the new siphon units working is gonna be epic. :) Look forward to reading the first dev post here.
Daddy needs a new siphon unit, moon goo only please :)
http://9to5mac.files.wordpress.com/2012/06/smug2.jpeg *** Vote MTU For CSM *** ***Free The Jita 1*** "They feel the need to cover their ears and eyes in horror at your very presence." - Pontianak Sythaeryn "Despite others being missing, at least Ramona is back." - Scipio Artelius |
Solecist Project
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
551
|
Posted - 2014.04.20 11:30:00 -
[18] - Quote
TL;DR:
Because POS owners switched reactions, he lost the magnifying glass making his thingy look bigger.
Now he's butthurt about them laughing at him, so he blames CCP and calls it an exploit that they simply aren't doing what he want them to do.
He doesn't actually give an explanation why it is broken, but believes he is entitled to steal everything and anything from them and that it has to have value he wants to have.
Conclusion:
<-> ... Actual size.
Case closed. |
NEONOVUS
Diabolically Sexy Eureka-Secret Science R Us
830
|
Posted - 2014.04.20 12:09:00 -
[19] - Quote
And yet meanwhile I hear the siphon is all against the POS as every hour it just noms some of the material and spits it out into little Interbus packages that stack up outside the CQ door
That unless they log in every hour just before the cycle and enough to clear all the siphons, they arbitrarily lose the material, then still have to loot the siphon to get some back
So why not reinforce the moon and claim it for yourself if you want the goo and not the sweet delicious null baby tears
Because a pos is for moon goo and a siphon is for tears Please understand the usage |
Aiwha
Trans Secunda Nulli Secunda
733
|
Posted - 2014.04.20 12:36:00 -
[20] - Quote
Siphons should have two modes. One that siphons at its current rate, and a simply destroy rate. As in you park it on a POS, and just neuter the income. Nobody gets the moongoo. Gives large alliances a reason to go out and use these things rather than just individuals. We're winning the war if it says so on CAOD! -á
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Abrazzar
Vardaugas Family
2918
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Posted - 2014.04.20 12:47:00 -
[21] - Quote
Aiwha wrote:Siphons should have two modes. One that siphons at its current rate, and a simply destroy rate. As in you park it on a POS, and just neuter the income. Nobody gets the moongoo. Gives large alliances a reason to go out and use these things rather than just individuals. I don't think large alliances are the target group for this feature. Sovereignty and Population New Mining Mechanics |
Shydow Lugia
Amtrack Mafia
2
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Posted - 2014.04.20 16:40:00 -
[22] - Quote
Risk.
Versus.
Reward. |
Felicity Love
Whore and Peace
1686
|
Posted - 2014.04.20 17:21:00 -
[23] - Quote
Brewlar Kuvakei wrote:Having used Siphon units for the past few weeks I've found them to be fairly entertaining and serving a purpose barely. Is CCP going to make changes to the units when they introduce medium and large or has this project just been left to redundancy?
I'll give you a hint... you may have already answered your own question given CCP's very obvious history in some areas of content.
... and I was just saying the other day, "Damn, I miss Soundwave"....
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Brewlar Kuvakei
Adeptio Gloriae
264
|
Posted - 2014.04.21 15:55:00 -
[24] - Quote
Felicity Love wrote:Brewlar Kuvakei wrote:Having used Siphon units for the past few weeks I've found them to be fairly entertaining and serving a purpose barely. Is CCP going to make changes to the units when they introduce medium and large or has this project just been left to redundancy?
I'll give you a hint... you may have already answered your own question given CCP's very obvious history in some areas of content.
Yeah sad but true that's why they have so many problems, lets hop[e they actually finish this project. |
PotatoOverdose
Handsome Millionaire Playboys
1593
|
Posted - 2014.04.21 21:19:00 -
[25] - Quote
Personally, I hope they introduce a siphon that can steal from complex reactors. |
Solecist Project
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
616
|
Posted - 2014.04.21 21:57:00 -
[26] - Quote
PotatoOverdose wrote:Personally, I hope they introduce a siphon that can steal from complex reactors. They should introduce a siphon that tractors autopiloting pods ... ... and traps them, until the player returns to the keyboard.
And with this post, I have seven in a row.
Soon I'll own the front page! |
Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
12614
|
Posted - 2014.04.21 23:12:00 -
[27] - Quote
Brewlar Kuvakei wrote:The Siphon costs are also on the high side with a unit only paying for itself after 24 hours on an average moon.
Oh noes. Team that with the "exploit" you point out, and that's horrible!
Its right up there with a POCO in a slow system not paying for itself for months..and then people using that pesky "launch exploit" to bypass your profits completely!
Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings? |
Adoris Nolen
Sama Guild
63
|
Posted - 2014.04.22 04:59:00 -
[28] - Quote
Quick question, a moon running 2 reactions should be pretty light on defense or am I wrong? |
Salvos Rhoska
1116
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Posted - 2014.04.22 05:11:00 -
[29] - Quote
I agree with OP. ------------ |
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan Council of Peace and Prosperity
3505
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Posted - 2014.04.22 08:35:00 -
[30] - Quote
Salvos Rhoska wrote:I agree with OP. No, you dont.
Besides, if they do have another syphon, how about one that syphons fuel.
That would be useful and hilarious *** Vote MTU For CSM *** ***Free The Jita 1*** "They feel the need to cover their ears and eyes in horror at your very presence." - Pontianak Sythaeryn "Despite others being missing, at least Ramona is back." - Scipio Artelius |
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