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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |

NEONOVUS
Diabolically Sexy Eureka-Secret Science R Us
843
|
Posted - 2014.05.21 13:08:00 -
[121] - Quote
Just have siphons go for the biggest ISK items
Would work well, would be fun, would make certain person's moon goo reserve that is hidden away waiting for that special day all the more valuable |

E-2C Hawkeye
State War Academy Caldari State
628
|
Posted - 2014.05.21 13:08:00 -
[122] - Quote
Solecist Project wrote:Brewlar Kuvakei wrote:That post says nothing, we need siphon units that target raw materials so POS owners can protect moon goo with worthless reactions. There is no point in CCP introducing broken content, the last patches have all been about fixing content so why have they now introduced broken siphon units? We need. You mean to say "I need". Why are you so butthurt about them being smart enough to counter your attempt?
You can add me to that list of need. At their current state Siphons are useless.
Its not about the butthurt its about having content that works and makes sense. I would hope the CSM reps that I voted in will get these fixed. |

E-2C Hawkeye
State War Academy Caldari State
628
|
Posted - 2014.05.21 13:11:00 -
[123] - Quote
Brewlar Kuvakei wrote:mynnna if you could act like a representative for a better eve and not just a better goons for 1 second that would be great.
Siphons are broken they are currently useless due to the exploit I explained. We need a dedicated raw material siphon to target moon goo to put pressure on the big doughnut.
. Either fix them or take them out the game as in their current form due to the trash reaction exploit they are pointless and simply eve form of bloat ware. More anaconda mines for my station container
Hopefully some other less self serving CSM members could act on this ;) Nice to see that block voting is effective.  |

Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan Council of Peace and Prosperity
4486
|
Posted - 2014.05.21 13:12:00 -
[124] - Quote
Markus45 wrote: Solecist Project, editing this post and removing the EULA infraction has spared you from having a petition filed against you. In the future please remember such posts will be reported upon being discovered.
Wow Markus, you are really working hard to be the biggest male chicken in this hen house, aren't you?
You aren't a moderator and you aren't the living embodiment of virtue, but keep working towards a perma all the same
Don't let me stop you "They feel the need to cover their ears and eyes in horror at your very presence." - Pontianak Sythaeryn "I can't honestly believe that Peace and Prosperity has a face like a naughty sarcastic nun that's come to whip me with a ruler." - Domanique Altares -á-á ***FREE THE JITA 1*** |

Xavier Higdon
Wolfbane Hauler Inc
312
|
Posted - 2014.05.21 13:57:00 -
[125] - Quote
I thought Siphons went after the better materials by default, so I'm a bit confused by this thread. I guess I'm really out of the loop on these things.
Personally, I think siphons should have two extraction modes, the first, and default setting, would be raw material extraction. Mining arrays are anchored in space, correct? Since they're anchored in space, it is reasonable to expect that the raw materials being extracted from a moon must be transported to the mining array in some manner. In this case, I think it might be safe to say that this transportation is automated using unmanned haulers moving the materials off of the surface and into orbit. The siphon will redirect some of these haulers away from the mining array and towards itself. It could do this in a few ways, either recording and rebroadcasting the mining array's location data to a random selection of haulers so that they redirect away from the array, or by directly linking to and "hacking" a select few haulers in order to bring them directly to itself. This mode of extraction would allow the siphon to directly steal from the beginning of a production chain, in this case taking what ever raw materials(chosen at random if there are multiple raw materials being extracted from the moon) are being produced.
The second method of extraction would be for stealing processed materials. In this mode, the siphon would piggyback into the POS's network by "hacking" the same haulers used to steal raw materials. Instead of redirecting those haulers, however, it would instead inject code into the POS's network that would target refining facilities. This virus would cause the POS to believe that the siphon is just another storage facility waiting to be filled, though of a much lower priority than the normal storage facilities in order to prevent detection. When the refining of the raw materials is completed, the POS's mainframe naturally looks for a place to put the finished products. The siphon, being of a lower priority, would receive a smaller portion of these materials while the majority of the finished products would go to the normal storage facilities. Which refined products the siphon gets would be chosen at random from all of the production chains currently active at the POS.
Both of these modes would be exclusive, meaning you will never receive refined materials from a siphon unit set to extract raw materials, and you will never receive raw materials from a siphon unit set to extract refined materials. There may also need to be a difference in amount that you receive depending on which mode is chosen. This is because I'm completely uninformed when it comes to how reactions work regarding moon materials, so I have no clue what is produced from what or how much is produced from how much. Wolfbane Hauler Inc Looking For Combat And Industrial Pilots |

Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
3056
|
Posted - 2014.05.21 14:31:00 -
[126] - Quote
Markus45 wrote:Solecist Project wrote:He doesn't care if the units are broken, his tiny ego just got hurt because he realized they deny him his silly satisfaction.
I'd say first it was him who laughed at them because he could inflate his ego ... ... and now they laugh at him because his fake self esteem popped like a bubble. Solecist Project, editing this post and removing the EULA infraction has spared you from having a petition filed against you. In the future please remember such posts will be reported upon being discovered.
Thank you ISD...which one are you? Most people viewed Orwell's writings as a warning. The harper regime and the goons treat them as a guidebook. |

Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
6433
|
Posted - 2014.05.21 14:54:00 -
[127] - Quote
Markus45 wrote:Solecist Project wrote:He doesn't care if the units are broken, his tiny ego just got hurt because he realized they deny him his silly satisfaction.
I'd say first it was him who laughed at them because he could inflate his ego ... ... and now they laugh at him because his fake self esteem popped like a bubble. Solecist Project, editing this post and removing the EULA infraction has spared you from having a petition filed against you. In the future please remember such posts will be reported upon being discovered.
Reported for player harassment, stated intent to maliciously abuse the petition system and stalk another player. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
Psychotic Monk for CSM9. |

Brewlar Kuvakei
Adeptio Gloriae
308
|
Posted - 2014.05.21 17:13:00 -
[128] - Quote
Still no dev clarification, WOW just really wow? After the release more broken content, I thought fixing broken content was CCP's goal at the minute why are they continuing to put out such poor quality broken content as this?
Was it really pressure from null bears that broke this or was the development half intelligent to start with, which dev even worked on this? |

Harrison Tato
Yamato Holdings
52
|
Posted - 2014.05.21 17:42:00 -
[129] - Quote
Yeah, the siphon units sounded cool but they have been a waste of time for a small timer like me. The most content I managed to create with one was when the owner of the POS I had one on found it and demanded that I remove it. I told him that they couldn't be picked up so he destroyed it and for some reason shot the wreck with his billion ISK Tengu. His POS then destroyed his Tengu because it was set to attack anyone who lost standing.
|

mynnna
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3555
|
Posted - 2014.05.21 19:34:00 -
[130] - Quote
Brewlar Kuvakei wrote:mynnna if you could act like a representative for a better eve and not just a better goons for 1 second that would be great.
Siphons are broken they are currently useless due to the exploit I explained. We need a dedicated raw material siphon to target moon goo to put pressure on the big doughnut.
. Either fix them or take them out the game as in their current form due to the trash reaction exploit they are pointless and simply eve form of bloat ware. More anaconda mines for my station container
Hopefully some other less self serving CSM members could act on this ;)
"Ignore links explaining how they're working as intended and how you can counter this so-called exploit, continue whining instead" is the name of the game, then. Typical I suppose. Member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal |

Xavier Higdon
Wolfbane Hauler Inc
313
|
Posted - 2014.05.21 20:03:00 -
[131] - Quote
mynnna wrote:Brewlar Kuvakei wrote:mynnna if you could act like a representative for a better eve and not just a better goons for 1 second that would be great.
Siphons are broken they are currently useless due to the exploit I explained. We need a dedicated raw material siphon to target moon goo to put pressure on the big doughnut.
. Either fix them or take them out the game as in their current form due to the trash reaction exploit they are pointless and simply eve form of bloat ware. More anaconda mines for my station container
Hopefully some other less self serving CSM members could act on this ;) "Ignore links explaining how they're working as intended and how you can counter this so-called exploit, continue whining instead" is the name of the game, then. Typical I suppose.
He's not ignoring them at all, he's just choosing to disregard them.
He does kind of have a point, though, since as things stand the siphons just don't pass the common sense test. They appear to have an amazing ability to interface with their target POS. The siphon knows exactly what production is occurring within the POS, it knows exactly what materials are needed for production, and then it chooses to ignore all of those raw materials and patiently waits for the POS to finish its production run. With that level of interfacing, the siphon should be able to steal from the beginning of a production chain by simply redirecting some of the raw materials. Instead, it politely asks the production facilities to let it know which materials are needed, and then earmarks all of the same kind of material as untouchable and only takes what is produced from those materials.
Now, maybe I'm wrong with this, but from what I have read it appears that siphon units will not steal moon materials so long as the harvester is linked to a simple reactor. Even though there will be an excess of raw harvested materials, the siphon treats all of them as part of a production chain and so treats those excess materials like they don't exist. That's a rather strange thing for a structure designed to steal materials to do. Perhaps it should be called the Small Mobile 'Emily Post' Siphon Unit? After all, it is following rather strict etiquette regarding how and what it steals. Wolfbane Hauler Inc Looking For Combat And Industrial Pilots |

Brewlar Kuvakei
Adeptio Gloriae
310
|
Posted - 2014.05.21 21:00:00 -
[132] - Quote
mynnna wrote:Brewlar Kuvakei wrote:mynnna if you could act like a representative for a better eve and not just a better goons for 1 second that would be great.
Siphons are broken they are currently useless due to the exploit I explained. We need a dedicated raw material siphon to target moon goo to put pressure on the big doughnut.
. Either fix them or take them out the game as in their current form due to the trash reaction exploit they are pointless and simply eve form of bloat ware. More anaconda mines for my station container
Hopefully some other less self serving CSM members could act on this ;) "Ignore links explaining how they're working as intended and how you can counter this so-called exploit, continue whining instead" is the name of the game, then. Typical I suppose.
Please just shhh now. No one even understands your far fetched notion that siphons are working and your plain to see derailment of siphons is obvious to everyone. The only thing no one understands is why they even hit Tranquillity in this state? WTF was the dev thinking? and who is taking his place for the fix? They are broken and they could be great a tool for making moons mean something again other than a stream of income in one direction to the big blue boring doughnut. |

Lady Areola Fappington
New Order Logistics CODE.
1784
|
Posted - 2014.05.21 21:20:00 -
[133] - Quote
Ya'll need to take a step back from EVE, and re-read some of the things you post. I mean, seriously, "Is the game and CCP's affairs in such a tragic fragile state that they dare not jeopardize the moon income of pet alliances?".
Do you really think CCP makes decisions, on a corporate level, based on how much space XYZ alliance has? CCP can wipe the coffers of every nullsec alliance in the game tomorrow if they wanted. They could give em 50 million PLEX too.
Power in-game does not translate to power out of game. We've all got the same ability to vote with our feet, and...that's about it.
On the grrgoons page, you know who has the most power over Goons? Lowtax. All Lowtax would have to do is tell the EVE goons to STFU about it, and....well, it's kind of hard to have a somethingawful.com group with somethingawful.com won't let you discuss it on their forums, and actively prevents you from using any of their trademark/copyright stuff. The risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built and we want to keep that (infact, this is much more representative of the consensus opinion within CCP). |

mynnna
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3556
|
Posted - 2014.05.21 22:33:00 -
[134] - Quote
Xavier Higdon wrote:mynnna wrote:Brewlar Kuvakei wrote:mynnna if you could act like a representative for a better eve and not just a better goons for 1 second that would be great.
Siphons are broken they are currently useless due to the exploit I explained. We need a dedicated raw material siphon to target moon goo to put pressure on the big doughnut.
. Either fix them or take them out the game as in their current form due to the trash reaction exploit they are pointless and simply eve form of bloat ware. More anaconda mines for my station container
Hopefully some other less self serving CSM members could act on this ;) "Ignore links explaining how they're working as intended and how you can counter this so-called exploit, continue whining instead" is the name of the game, then. Typical I suppose. He's not ignoring them at all, he's just choosing to disregard them. He does kind of have a point, though, since as things stand the siphons just don't pass the common sense test. They appear to have an amazing ability to interface with their target POS. The siphon knows exactly what production is occurring within the POS, it knows exactly what materials are needed for production, and then it chooses to ignore all of those raw materials and patiently waits for the POS to finish its production run. With that level of interfacing, the siphon should be able to steal from the beginning of a production chain by simply redirecting some of the raw materials. Instead, it politely asks the production facilities to let it know which materials are needed, and then earmarks all of the same kind of material as untouchable and only takes what is produced from those materials. Now, maybe I'm wrong with this, but from what I have read it appears that siphon units will not steal moon materials so long as the harvester is linked to a simple reactor. Even though there will be an excess of raw harvested materials, the siphon treats all of them as part of a production chain and so treats those excess materials like they don't exist. That's a rather strange thing for a structure designed to steal materials to do. Perhaps it should be called the Small Mobile 'Emily Post' Siphon Unit? After all, it is following rather strict etiquette regarding how and what it steals. So, two things. 1) There's the "common sense test", and then there's POS code in EVE. Which do you think actually drove the design of siphon mechanics? 'Course, if we want to start handwaving about "how they should actually work" it's just as easy to make up some claptrap about how the siphon just sends nanobots to infiltrate the silo itself through its cargo hatches but can't get into the harvester or conduits to the reactor because something something whatever *waves hands* 2) You actually are partially wrong about that; there are no excess materials. A harvester gathers 100 units per hour, and a simple reactor requires 100 units per hour of input.
Brewlar Kuvakei wrote:
Please just shhh now. No one even understands your far fetched notion that siphons are working and your plain to see derailment of siphons is obvious to everyone. The only thing no one understands is why they even hit Tranquillity in this state? WTF was the dev thinking? and who is taking his place for the fix? They are broken and they could be great a tool for making moons mean something again other than a stream of income in one direction to the big blue boring doughnut.
Is the game and CCP's affairs in such a tragic fragile state that they dare not jeopardize the moon income of pet alliances? Will alliances be that buthurt over actually having to fight and do something that they'll cry to CCP and oh no huff puff un sub or yeah uhm DDOS tantrum? or was it plain developer incompetence? I'm asking expecting an answer.
hahaha
(keep waiting)
Member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal |

Terranid Meester
Tactical Assault and Recon Unit
221
|
Posted - 2014.05.21 23:23:00 -
[135] - Quote
I think cyno inhibitors, Mobile Micro jumpdrives and Mobile Scan Inhibitors are more in need of being looked at, maybe siphons too.
These things are just over-nerfed. |

Xavier Higdon
Wolfbane Hauler Inc
316
|
Posted - 2014.05.21 23:29:00 -
[136] - Quote
Alright, so I did some more research. Thanks, mynnna, for pointing out that I was wrong and spurring me on to actually look things up. One, why the heck wouldn't you be okay with Dysporite? That stuff sells for about 30k a unit, right? Dysprosium sells for more, sure, but not exorbitantly more. Next, I'm not seeing a means of preventing the theft of anything. Either the materials are being used in reactions as they are produced, or they're vulnerable to theft, right? If this is true, I officially retract my suggestion about siphons being able to choose which end of a production chain materials should be able to be taken from.
Now, if it turns out you don't actually have to run a reaction in order to prevent theft, but instead need only link a mining array harvesting dysprosium to a simple reactor in order to protect it, I'm going to have to let my suggestion stand. I can't find any supporting information that this is possible, but I also can't find any supporting information that this isn't how it works, so someone please let me know. Wolfbane Hauler Inc Looking For Combat And Industrial Pilots |
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ISD Ezwal
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
1354

|
Posted - 2014.05.22 00:37:00 -
[137] - Quote
I have removed some rule breaking posts and those quoting them. As always I let some edge cases stay. Please people, keep it on topic and above all civil!
The Rules: 4. Personal attacks are prohibited.
Commonly known as flaming, personal attacks are posts that are designed to personally berate or insult another forum user. Posts of this nature are not beneficial to the community spirit that CCP promote and as such they will not be tolerated.
5. Trolling is prohibited.
Trolling is a defined as a post that is deliberately designed for the purpose of angering and insulting other players in an attempt to incite retaliation or an emotional response. Posts of this nature are disruptive, often abusive and do not contribute to the sense of community that CCP promote.
11. Discussion of forum moderation is prohibited.
The discussion of EVE Online forum moderation actions generally leads to flaming, trolling and baiting of our ISD CCL moderators. As such, this type of discussion is strictly prohibited under the forum rules. If you have questions regarding the actions of a moderator, please file a petition under the Community & Forums Category.
26. Off-topic posting is prohibited.
Off-topic posting is permitted within reason, as sometimes a single comment may color or lighten the tone of discussion. However, excessive posting of off-topic remarks in an attempt to derail a thread may result in the thread being locked, or a forum warning being issued.
This thread has also been moved to Features & Ideas Discussion. ISD Ezwal Captain Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department |
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zen zubon
Asteroid Bluez S I L E N T.
6
|
Posted - 2014.05.22 09:49:00 -
[138] - Quote
Invested a few hundred mil in siphons, a 5 workdays worth of free time, profit made 25 mil and I only targeted R64 moons. Would have been better to just mine in a frig for the time it took jumping system to system. I would collect before and after work, then place more siphons as others died on different r64 POSs |

Brewlar Kuvakei
Adeptio Gloriae
310
|
Posted - 2014.05.22 15:27:00 -
[139] - Quote
zen zubon wrote:Invested a few hundred mil in siphons, a 5 workdays worth of free time, profit made 25 mil and I only targeted R64 moons. Would have been better to just mine in a frig for the time it took jumping system to system. I would collect before and after work, then place more siphons as others died on different r64 POSs
No one is asking for massive piles of risk free isk we just need siphons to work around the current exploit as intended. It's unclear if Siphons were launched broken because of the blatant blue bear null block pressure via CSM or DDOS or if its just pure developer incompetence my guess is a combination of both. |

Brewlar Kuvakei
Adeptio Gloriae
318
|
Posted - 2014.05.24 11:18:00 -
[140] - Quote
Well we all know which Dev is now on the CCP chopping board for the next quarter lay off's.
A poorly executed **** up in a brewery comes to mind. |

Brewlar Kuvakei
Adeptio Gloriae
318
|
Posted - 2014.05.25 13:20:00 -
[141] - Quote
The lead Dev behind this needs to step down or be terminated. Utter disgrace and completely against CCP's new policy of fixing broken content. |

ugh zug
98
|
Posted - 2014.05.25 22:00:00 -
[142] - Quote
the Op is correct CCP you must iterate on these units further. Want me to shut up? Remove content from my post, 15 bil. Remove my content from a thread I have started 30bil. |

Brewlar Kuvakei
Adeptio Gloriae
320
|
Posted - 2014.05.26 15:20:00 -
[143] - Quote
Still no comment from the dev behind this but what do you expect from such a company as CCP? |

Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
6534
|
Posted - 2014.05.26 15:22:00 -
[144] - Quote
Clearly it's not as much of an issue as you would like to claim. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
Psychotic Monk for CSM9. |

Brewlar Kuvakei
Adeptio Gloriae
320
|
Posted - 2014.05.27 16:09:00 -
[145] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Clearly it's not as much of an issue as you would like to claim.
What?
It's totally broken, it could not get any more broken. |

0Lona 0ltor
Righteous Immortal Pew
111
|
Posted - 2014.06.05 20:45:00 -
[146] - Quote
Hello dev feedback please, hello is anyone even left employed at CCP? |

0Lona 0ltor
Righteous Immortal Pew
111
|
Posted - 2014.06.05 20:46:00 -
[147] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Clearly it's not as much of an issue as you would like to claim.
Clearly it was LMFAO. |

Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
6777
|
Posted - 2014.06.05 20:57:00 -
[148] - Quote
Brewlar Kuvakei wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Clearly it's not as much of an issue as you would like to claim. What? It's totally broken, it could not get any more broken.
Sure it could.
You could have to pay a tax to CONCORD to put one up, for starters. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
Psychotic Monk for CSM9. |

PopeUrban
El Expedicion
86
|
Posted - 2014.06.05 21:41:00 -
[149] - Quote
The purpose of siphons is to give players of any organizational scope the ability to penalize POS owners for not actively monitoring their assets. If they worked properly, they would limit econ projection by ensuring that only entities large enough to occupy space would have mining and reaction setups in that space.
The current state of the things is opposite of their intended design purpose, they don't force the POS owners to be more active. Anyone who things siphons were added to the game to 'create fights' is seriously off the mark. Siphons were added to allow players to exploit unattended passive income farms, as along with sov mechanics they are major contributers toward disproportionate economic and force projection.
In order to fulfill their role, which is to significantly cost the POS owner income if not found and removed, they have to be able to steal things of value. Currently they aren't capable of doing this. I don't understand why there's anything else that needs to be discussed.
If you have an alliance of thousands of players and those thousands of players are incapable of keeping an eye on the alliance's assets, then that alliance is obviously claiming more assets than its numbers can reasonably support, and reaching beyond a sustainable grasp should absolutely be penalized by a loss of efficiency.
Siphons working properly accomplish that goal as well as provide another reason for smaller corps or solo acts to go out to null, and as a side effect create content for residents. Make no mistake, however, that the design of siphons and indeed all personal deployables, is to make players less reliant on massive alliance play, which in turn naturally makes life harder for alliances.
That isn't a bad thing. Success opportunities for smaller groups are woefully thin in this game. The tone of the last SEVERAL releases has absolutely been about adding tools that enable smaller groups of players to actually have things worth doing with real profit potential that aren't automatically made useless by the existence of sov block play that will always naturally exist. No matter who you are, if you're playing EVE you are managing risk with the tools avalaible to you, whether those tools are stealth, capital blobs, gatecamps, concord, whatever, you are always attempting to find the most risk free method to acquire ISK (or tears) Anyone pretending otherwise is just plain lying to themselves. |

Saisin
State War Academy Caldari State
57
|
Posted - 2014.06.05 23:44:00 -
[150] - Quote
Abrazzar wrote: I don't think large alliances are the target group for this feature.
I totally agree with you. Siphons, like the ESS, or bounty hunting, is the kind of content that could do a lot to cater to other demographics of players.
I have been drawn to the game by bounty hunting, only to be thoroughly disappointed. The latest changes have improved it a bit but the feature is still to this day a disappointment.
I got really excited about Siphon and ESS when they got introduced, but I also found out Siphon has too many issues to be useful, and the ESS exploit of deploying them to NPC haven has twisted its initial concept in favor of the defenders.
Unfortunately, it seems most of the ideas that could attract more solo players, freedom fighters or lone wolves style, are getting nerfed to near uselessness before they enter the game. CCP should remember that not everyone has access to multiple alts, multiboxing, or is willing to pay taxes to other players in exchange for "guidelines" on how to play the game...
"surrender your ego, be free". innuendo.
solo? There is a new hope http://turamarths-evelife.blogspot.com/2014/05/ok-now-im-betting-man.html |
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