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Tachyon's and the new patch

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 4 post(s)
MIstress Saki	Posted - 2006.05.22 07:47:00 - [31] I do not have start a "whining" treat. I only wanted to know , as paying customer, if the promised change will be included or not, thatÆs all. If the changes are included at the test server, thatÆs good but almost everybody with experience knows that changes at the test server does not automatically mean that they will be transferred to TQ. All I want is a short answer, yes no and if more time is available why..
Testy Mctest	Posted - 2006.05.22 08:33:00 - [32] Originally by: Othon Von'Salsa Tachyon ask a lot of grid, cpu, capa for shoot, tracking are too low, range are a LITTLE to high = TACHYON is !!! UNUSABLE My entire alliance would disagree. Not to mention everyone using Large Blasters or any kind of Artillery has a MUCh harder time fitting their guns than you ever do fitting Tachs. Quote: I'm sorry but raven, minmatar and gallente are boosted but NEVER NEVER the amarr !!! Because they don't need it. Wait, wait....when did Minmatar get a boost?

Tuxford	Posted - 2006.05.22 08:39:00 - [33] Edited by: Tuxford on 22/05/2006 08:40:11 I'm pretty sure we just forgot to put it in the patchnotes. Yeah just not in the patch notes, I'll have that fixed. _______________

Bacchuss	Posted - 2006.05.22 08:41:00 - [34] Originally by: Tuxford I'm pretty sure we just forgot to put it in the patchnotes. i think you also forgot to put in patch notes: Drone fix: no mating, 2.5km scoop range and use of mwd manual for drones ************************************ "What you gonna do, when I come for yoU?!" ************************************
Rodj Blake	Posted - 2006.05.22 08:47:00 - [35] All beam lasers need a reduction in grid requirements. It's virtually impossible to fit them on cruisers or frigates. Dulce et decorum est, pro imperator mori

Tuxford	Posted - 2006.05.22 08:49:00 - [36] Originally by: Rodj Blake All beam lasers need a reduction in grid requirements. It's virtually impossible to fit them on cruisers or frigates. I know medium beams pretty much don't fit on anything. I'll take a look at it. _______________

Nafri	Posted - 2006.05.22 09:00:00 - [37] Originally by: Tuxford Originally by: Rodj Blake All beam lasers need a reduction in grid requirements. It's virtually impossible to fit them on cruisers or frigates. I know medium beams pretty much don't fit on anything. I'll take a look at it. but thy are soo much better than anything else anyway Summertime - Campingtime!

Tuxford	Posted - 2006.05.22 09:09:00 - [38] Originally by: Nafri but thy are soo much better than anything else anyway Not really though. Considering the racial bonuses they get, amarr cap, caldari range, gallente damage and minmatar rof they seem on par with the other long range turret and not especially better in any way. The other long range turret are however pretty hard to fit as well but my impression is that medium beams are harder to fit on amarr ships than 150mm on gall and caldari ships, although before I open up this can of worm (which I kind of already have) then I need to go all mathematical on this stuff. _______________

Nifel	Posted - 2006.05.22 09:10:00 - [39] Hmm... medium beams fit fine on the zealot o_O. Are there any other ships you want them on apart from the absolution which doesn't have any problems either iirc :p. "We wield swords for the sound of laughter that used to be there long ago." RKK Ranking: (MIN14) Sama
Sarmaul	Posted - 2006.05.22 09:11:00 - [40] erm what? it's a damn sight easier to fit medium beams than it is to fit medium artillery. the zealot can fill all 4 guns, mwd and med rep and have 34pg and 204pg for filling the last slots, while the muninn can fit 4 out of 5 guns before needing a fitting mod.

Malken	Posted - 2006.05.22 09:12:00 - [41] Originally by: Tuxford Edited by: Tuxford on 22/05/2006 08:40:11 I'm pretty sure we just forgot to put it in the patchnotes. Yeah just not in the patch notes, I'll have that fixed. ty Quote: [05:17:46] Obiareus > freindlies dock or safespot [05:17:51] Obiareus > YOU CANNOT WIN

Tuxford	Posted - 2006.05.22 09:12:00 - [42] Originally by: Sarmaul erm what? it's a damn sight easier to fit medium beams than it is to fit medium artillery. the zealot can fill all 4 guns, mwd and med rep and have 34pg and 204pg for filling the last slots, while the muninn can fit 4 out of 5 guns before needing a fitting mod. Medium beams would actually be small guns though. Perfectly aware of how hard it is to fit Muninn though. _______________

Brute Helmet	Posted - 2006.05.22 09:14:00 - [43] Its true though, its easier to fit a full rack of 280 II on a wolf or a rack of 150 II on a Enyo than a full rack of medium beam II on a Retribution. Considering that the Retribution is the frigate with most available grid ingame thats kinda silly, isnt it ? The Medium beam lasers only need a small, say 2-4MW, reduction in grid use and they are a viable option again. Nothing else needs to be done. Damage, tracking and range are ok in comparison to others. _____________________________ Support the MGRL - uncover your six
Sarmaul	Posted - 2006.05.22 09:15:00 - [44] Originally by: Tuxford Originally by: Sarmaul erm what? it's a damn sight easier to fit medium beams than it is to fit medium artillery. the zealot can fill all 4 guns, mwd and med rep and have 34pg and 204pg for filling the last slots, while the muninn can fit 4 out of 5 guns before needing a fitting mod. Medium beams would actually be small guns though. Perfectly aware of how hard it is to fit Muninn though. gah you know what I mean - the top-tier beams in the medium size catagory stupid naming scheme
Nafri	Posted - 2006.05.22 09:33:00 - [45] Hmm if you compare 280 II howitzers with Medium Beam lasers: Fitted on a wolf the 280 II has: 11,25km Optimal Range and does 19.844 DPS (thats with EMP). When you fit 4 of those on a wolf you are left with 13.2 PG Fitted in a Retribution the Medium Beam Laser II has: 11,25km Optimal Range and does 29,649 DPs (thats with multi). When you fitt 4 of those you will have 6.9 PG left. Basicly the 280 II on the Wolf will do about 66% of the Damage of the Medium Beam Laser II on the Retribution. If you consider that both will be able to fit 4 guns nearly equally good (Both are armor tankers) and both have 1 highslot left to fit I hardly see a problem for the Medium Beam Laser II. If you consider the tracking, the advantage of the Medium Beam Laser II will become even greater. A Target of 40m with a speed of 500m at 10km is getting hit by a Medium Beam Laser II for about 89.5% Same Target will get hit by a 280 II for about 77.52%. The Medium Beam Laser II will track 151% as good as the 280 II. So please tell me the problem? Summertime - Campingtime!
Sarmaul	Posted - 2006.05.22 09:34:00 - [46] increase small arti damage \o/
Nafri	Posted - 2006.05.22 09:37:00 - [47] And before some smartass says that the retribution has a damage bonus, and thats so rare for amarr ships. Only 1 Matari ship of each size gets a double damage bonus anyway, the other ships you just dont see cause thy suck so increadible much. Only some tech2 versions get double damage on both. Summertime - Campingtime!
Testy Mctest	Posted - 2006.05.22 09:38:00 - [48] Originally by: Sarmaul increase small arti damage \o/ Increase all arty DPS, reduce all arty fitting. Reduce AC ammo consumption. Ahh, its good to be back.
Sarmaul	Posted - 2006.05.22 09:40:00 - [49] Originally by: Testy Mctest Originally by: Sarmaul increase small arti damage \o/ Increase all arty DPS, reduce all arty fitting. Reduce AC ammo consumption. Ahh, its good to be back. you'd left yet?
FFGR	Posted - 2006.05.22 09:43:00 - [50] Let's hope you will look the grid issues with AC next _____________________________ siggys v. 0.5

Sarmaul	Posted - 2006.05.22 09:44:00 - [51] Originally by: FFGR Let's hope you will look the grid issues with AC next shut up shut up shut up!!!
Testy Mctest	Posted - 2006.05.22 09:48:00 - [52] Originally by: Sarmaul you'd left yet? Feels like it, last night was the first time I played in weeks. You never really leave the forums, though :) Incidentally, this means no vagabonds or muninns for anyone.
Sarmaul	Posted - 2006.05.22 09:50:00 - [53] Edited by: Sarmaul on 22/05/2006 09:50:46 Originally by: Testy Mctest Incidentally, this means no vagabonds or muninns for anyone. bastard
Brute Helmet	Posted - 2006.05.22 09:51:00 - [54] Originally by: Nafri Edited by: Nafri on 22/05/2006 09:39:29 Hmm if you compare 280 II howitzers with Medium Beam lasers: Fitted on a wolf the 280 II has: 16,875km Optimal Range and does 19.844 DPS (thats with EMP). When you fit 4 of those on a wolf you are left with 13.2 PG Fitted in a Retribution the Medium Beam Laser II has: 11,25km Optimal Range and does 29,649 DPs (thats with multi). When you fitt 4 of those you will have 6.9 PG left. Basicly the 280 II on the Wolf will do about 66% of the Damage of the Medium Beam Laser II on the Retribution. If you consider that both will be able to fit 4 guns nearly equally good (Both are armor tankers) and both have 1 highslot left to fit I hardly see a problem for the Medium Beam Laser II. If you consider the tracking, the advantage of the Medium Beam Laser II will become even greater. A Target of 40m with a speed of 500m at 10km is getting hit by a Medium Beam Laser II for about 89.5% Same Target will get hit by a 280 II for about 77.52%. The Medium Beam Laser II will track 151% as good as the 280 II. So please tell me the problem? The problem is that 6.9/70 = 10% grid left, 13.2/60 = 22% grid left on a wolf. Pretty significant difference when you consider that both Wolf and Retribution are armortankers by design. DPS isnt the whole story either, falloff of lasers is a lot less than on artilleries. And yes, falloff matters a lot in frigate combat as the targets are small and fast. If we disregard the t2 ships and t2 guns, the t1 variant of the medium beam is equally hard to fit on any frigate. _____________________________ Support the MGRL - uncover your six
Joerd Toastius	Posted - 2006.05.22 10:22:00 - [55] Originally by: Nafri So please tell me the problem? The problem is that all those numbers are irrelevant because nobody uses them, because they just don't fit on the majority of "sensible" setups. Med beams are rarely used by anyone because of the fitting requirements, which effectively deprives the Amarr of their high-end long-range frig weapon. Yes, maybe - maybe, and this would have to be proven by looking at use on all frigs and not just the one that's set up to do damage and tank and nothing else - there's a case for a damage nerf along side a fitting boost, but as it is something probably should be done about the fact that Med Beams just don't get used.
Eximius Josari	Posted - 2006.05.22 10:25:00 - [56] I want the Tachyon Equivalent Pulse Laser Click Above
Epsillon	Posted - 2006.05.22 10:39:00 - [57] Originally by: Tuxford Perfectly aware of how hard it is to fit Muninn though. So... can we expect some changes to the Muninn and/or artillery? Go on, you know you're feeling generous! Originally by: Tuxford then I need to go all mathematical on this stuff. Hit the dirt!! _____________________________________________
Theron Gyrow	Posted - 2006.05.22 10:40:00 - [58] Originally by: Tuxford Edited by: Tuxford on 22/05/2006 08:40:11 I'm pretty sure we just forgot to put it in the patchnotes. Yeah just not in the patch notes, I'll have that fixed. Tuxford, could you please just tell us how this is good for the game balance, or at least that this won't negatively affect it? I do worry, because after this, a sniping Armageddon will do about 1/3 more damage than the best non-Amarr sniper out till 187 km or so. (Mega with 4 damage mods vs. 'geddon with 3 mods. Mega has one more low slot free, but that's not too useful.) -- Gradient's forum
Nafri	Posted - 2006.05.22 11:01:00 - [59] Originally by: Brute Helmet Originally by: Nafri Edited by: Nafri on 22/05/2006 09:39:29 Hmm if you compare 280 II howitzers with Medium Beam lasers: Fitted on a wolf the 280 II has: 16,875km Optimal Range and does 19.844 DPS (thats with EMP). When you fit 4 of those on a wolf you are left with 13.2 PG Fitted in a Retribution the Medium Beam Laser II has: 11,25km Optimal Range and does 29,649 DPs (thats with multi). When you fitt 4 of those you will have 6.9 PG left. Basicly the 280 II on the Wolf will do about 66% of the Damage of the Medium Beam Laser II on the Retribution. If you consider that both will be able to fit 4 guns nearly equally good (Both are armor tankers) and both have 1 highslot left to fit I hardly see a problem for the Medium Beam Laser II. If you consider the tracking, the advantage of the Medium Beam Laser II will become even greater. A Target of 40m with a speed of 500m at 10km is getting hit by a Medium Beam Laser II for about 89.5% Same Target will get hit by a 280 II for about 77.52%. The Medium Beam Laser II will track 151% as good as the 280 II. So please tell me the problem? The problem is that 6.9/70 = 10% grid left, 13.2/60 = 22% grid left on a wolf. Pretty significant difference when you consider that both Wolf and Retribution are armortankers by design. DPS isnt the whole story either, falloff of lasers is a lot less than on artilleries. And yes, falloff matters a lot in frigate combat as the targets are small and fast. If we disregard the t2 ships and t2 guns, the t1 variant of the medium beam is equally hard to fit on any frigate. Check locking ranges and tell me who falloff of a 280 II should have any use? Were talking about ships which can lock 20-30 km. A 280 II at 25km is soo deep into falloff its tracking and damage is pointless. people forget that falloff affects tracking a lot. Summertime - Campingtime!
Joerd Toastius	Posted - 2006.05.22 11:04:00 - [60] I thought falloff just affected raw damage output as a multiplier? Also, AFs have 40-50k base targetting range.



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