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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 4 post(s) |
Hon Kovell
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Posted - 2006.05.22 15:05:00 -
[91]
Originally by: Nafri Edited by: Nafri on 22/05/2006 09:39:29 Hmm if you compare 280 II howitzers with Medium Beam lasers:
Fitted on a wolf the 280 II has:
16,875km Optimal Range and does 19.844 DPS (thats with EMP).
When you fit 4 of those on a wolf you are left with 13.2 PG
Fitted in a Retribution the Medium Beam Laser II has:
11,25km Optimal Range and does 29,649 DPs (thats with multi).
When you fitt 4 of those you will have 6.9 PG left.
Are you sure about your figures? 56 grid for the retri base --> 70 with engineering V 18 grid for each Medium Beam Laser II --> 16.2 with AWU V (Oh how I wish)
That gives 5.2 grid left with max skills, or 8 less than the wolf. That's a pretty substantial amount of grid difference.
If you add an MAPC so that the retri can fit AB II + SAR II then the retri will have 0.7 grid left with max skills and the wolf 8.7. AWU V is needed for the retri to fit even just ab and rep (t2) while the wolf can fit them with AWU 0 and still have grid to spare (but no launcher).
Would long range ammo be a better comparison since we're not fitting beams to engage at short range? That gives 10.824 for the wolf using your figure above and 12.354 for the retri. The wolf can also fit a launcher but be left with a similar 0.6 grid to the retri.
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Denrace
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Posted - 2006.05.22 15:06:00 -
[92]
Edited by: Denrace on 22/05/2006 15:10:10 To be honest, I gave up on using lasers a LONG time ago.
The Thermal/EM damage only is horribly ineffective versus nearly EVERYTHING.
Thermal/Kinetic is much better as it breaks armour tanks more easily while still being effective at busting shields.
While I can blast away shields pretty quickly (except a shield tanked ship, which has high thermal/EM resistances anyway) my damage becomes woefully pathetic the second I hit into armour.
The only possible exception being a GankGeddon. But no worries here, because the (frankly) unneeded changes to the BThron will most likely make it obsolete too.
I wish I had trained up Gallente or Minmatar instead of Amarr.
Lasers don't suck, but Thermal/EM damage is a joke.
Dont tell me "Use something else, you nub" because Ive already started training Caldari
P.S, Yay for Tachyon dmg increase!
Oh, and fitting Medium Beam Laser II's on a Retribution is only slightly less useful than a peddle wheelchair.
Den
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Meridius
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Posted - 2006.05.22 20:32:00 -
[93]
Originally by: Hon Kovell
Originally by: Nafri Edited by: Nafri on 22/05/2006 09:39:29 Hmm if you compare 280 II howitzers with Medium Beam lasers:
Fitted on a wolf the 280 II has:
16,875km Optimal Range and does 19.844 DPS (thats with EMP).
When you fit 4 of those on a wolf you are left with 13.2 PG
Fitted in a Retribution the Medium Beam Laser II has:
11,25km Optimal Range and does 29,649 DPs (thats with multi).
When you fitt 4 of those you will have 6.9 PG left.
Are you sure about your figures? 56 grid for the retri base --> 70 with engineering V 18 grid for each Medium Beam Laser II --> 16.2 with AWU V (Oh how I wish)
That gives 5.2 grid left with max skills, or 8 less than the wolf. That's a pretty substantial amount of grid difference.
If you add an MAPC so that the retri can fit AB II + SAR II then the retri will have 0.7 grid left with max skills and the wolf 8.7. AWU V is needed for the retri to fit even just ab and rep (t2) while the wolf can fit them with AWU 0 and still have grid to spare (but no launcher).
Would long range ammo be a better comparison since we're not fitting beams to engage at short range? That gives 10.824 for the wolf using your figure above and 12.354 for the retri. The wolf can also fit a launcher but be left with a similar 0.6 grid to the retri.
Heh that Wolf has a full 5.625km more range + loads of more falloff. It also has a 2nd midslot - _____
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Nafri
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Posted - 2006.05.23 08:18:00 -
[94]
Originally by: Meridius
Originally by: Hon Kovell
Originally by: Nafri Edited by: Nafri on 22/05/2006 09:39:29 Hmm if you compare 280 II howitzers with Medium Beam lasers:
Fitted on a wolf the 280 II has:
16,875km Optimal Range and does 19.844 DPS (thats with EMP).
When you fit 4 of those on a wolf you are left with 13.2 PG
Fitted in a Retribution the Medium Beam Laser II has:
11,25km Optimal Range and does 29,649 DPs (thats with multi).
When you fitt 4 of those you will have 6.9 PG left.
Are you sure about your figures? 56 grid for the retri base --> 70 with engineering V 18 grid for each Medium Beam Laser II --> 16.2 with AWU V (Oh how I wish)
That gives 5.2 grid left with max skills, or 8 less than the wolf. That's a pretty substantial amount of grid difference.
If you add an MAPC so that the retri can fit AB II + SAR II then the retri will have 0.7 grid left with max skills and the wolf 8.7. AWU V is needed for the retri to fit even just ab and rep (t2) while the wolf can fit them with AWU 0 and still have grid to spare (but no launcher).
Would long range ammo be a better comparison since we're not fitting beams to engage at short range? That gives 10.824 for the wolf using your figure above and 12.354 for the retri. The wolf can also fit a launcher but be left with a similar 0.6 grid to the retri.
Heh that Wolf has a full 5.625km more range + loads of more falloff. It also has a 2nd midslot
But only a bit more than half the damage. Figure out what is better.
Summertime - Campingtime!
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MIstress Saki
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Posted - 2006.05.23 08:22:00 -
[95]
Thanks Tux for your answer
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smallgreenblur
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Posted - 2006.05.23 09:51:00 -
[96]
Originally by: Nafri stuff...
But only a bit more than half the damage. Figure out what is better.
But but but the wolf has 92/10/25/65 armor resists! It must be uber, because it's immune to em damage! The retri only has 60/80/62/35 with almost twice the dps. It's clearly broken, and all the people I see flying them are idiots. Boost ammar! They need explosive crystals and no cap use.
Anyway moving on it's been amusing reading through this thread seeing how many people have no idea what they were talking about. I particularly like the guy that complained in the first page that 'named t1 lasers' were cheaper on market than they were to build, therefore lasers must suck. With compelling arguments such as this, it's good to have testy back
Ammar whiners (I honestly had no idea there were any, it's a bit like calidari complaining that the raven is borked) have got their entirely unneeded damage boost, now stfu already and let the gallente and minmatar keep the limelight till we approach something like equal status
sgb
pointless posts a speciality.
C6 is recruiting ... visit www.c6-eve.com or join channel c-6 for details. |
Bellac
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Posted - 2006.05.23 15:44:00 -
[97]
Originally by: Denrace Edited by: Denrace on 22/05/2006 15:10:10 To be honest, I gave up on using lasers a LONG time ago.
The Thermal/EM damage only is horribly ineffective versus nearly EVERYTHING.
Thermal/Kinetic is much better as it breaks armour tanks more easily while still being effective at busting shields.
While I can blast away shields pretty quickly (except a shield tanked ship, which has high thermal/EM resistances anyway) my damage becomes woefully pathetic the second I hit into armour.
The only possible exception being a GankGeddon. But no worries here, because the (frankly) unneeded changes to the BThron will most likely make it obsolete too.
I wish I had trained up Gallente or Minmatar instead of Amarr.
Lasers don't suck, but Thermal/EM damage is a joke.
Dont tell me "Use something else, you nub" because Ive already started training Caldari
P.S, Yay for Tachyon dmg increase!
Oh, and fitting Medium Beam Laser II's on a Retribution is only slightly less useful than a peddle wheelchair.
Den
This just about sums up my feeling too. Except I am not currently retraining for something else. On paper lasers may seem powerful with high DPS, but in practice they are probably the most gimped turrets in game due to the limited damage types and the high fitting and capacitor requirements.
I can do just as much damage (maybe more) in practice with my taranis with 150 rails on it as I can with my crusader with med beam 2 fitted. The big diference here is that I have small hybrid turret lvl 3 compared to small laser turret 5 and small beam turret specialisation 4. Surely this should not be.
It is obviously not just me that feels this way either as laser turrets are just not selling any more.
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Forsch
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Posted - 2006.05.23 15:51:00 -
[98]
Originally by: Bellac It is obviously not just me that feels this way either as laser turrets are just not selling any more.
Well I'm using them for NPCing but those ships don't die as fast.
Forsch Defender of the empire
More love for side factions! |
Sarmaul
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Posted - 2006.05.23 15:55:00 -
[99]
Originally by: smallgreenblur gallente and minmatar keep the limelight till we approach something like equal status
damn, there are still people around who believe minmatar will one day reach equal status?
click here for a seizure |
Joerd Toastius
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Posted - 2006.05.23 16:10:00 -
[100]
Originally by: Bellac
Originally by: Denrace Edited by: Denrace on 22/05/2006 15:10:10 To be honest, I gave up on using lasers a LONG time ago.
The Thermal/EM damage only is horribly ineffective versus nearly EVERYTHING.
Thermal/Kinetic is much better as it breaks armour tanks more easily while still being effective at busting shields.
While I can blast away shields pretty quickly (except a shield tanked ship, which has high thermal/EM resistances anyway) my damage becomes woefully pathetic the second I hit into armour.
The only possible exception being a GankGeddon. But no worries here, because the (frankly) unneeded changes to the BThron will most likely make it obsolete too.
I wish I had trained up Gallente or Minmatar instead of Amarr.
Lasers don't suck, but Thermal/EM damage is a joke.
Dont tell me "Use something else, you nub" because Ive already started training Caldari
P.S, Yay for Tachyon dmg increase!
Oh, and fitting Medium Beam Laser II's on a Retribution is only slightly less useful than a peddle wheelchair.
Den
This just about sums up my feeling too. Except I am not currently retraining for something else. On paper lasers may seem powerful with high DPS, but in practice they are probably the most gimped turrets in game due to the limited damage types and the high fitting and capacitor requirements.
I can do just as much damage (maybe more) in practice with my taranis with 150 rails on it as I can with my crusader with med beam 2 fitted. The big diference here is that I have small hybrid turret lvl 3 compared to small laser turret 5 and small beam turret specialisation 4. Surely this should not be.
It is obviously not just me that feels this way either as laser turrets are just not selling any more.
Yeah, but the MB2 is ridiculously fitting-hungry. Try comparing MP2s to the equivalent small blasters - at least then you have roughly equivalent playing field.
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