You got me there. It is 45,000 per run not 4,500.

I was asking how u got 45,000 invention cost per print when just the datacores costs ~680,000 per blueprint at 50% success rate.

During Q2 2009, the average number of Tech II production jobs completed daily was 11,788..
Out of this average, 374 jobs were installed with a Tech II BPO, while the remaining 11,414 jobs
were installed with BPCs. The distribution of Tech II production jobs installed had 3% installed
with a BPO and 97% installed with a BPC, as can be seen in the figure below.

If we say that the production cost via invention for a ship is 150m isk, and a bpo holder can build it for 100m. Exactly why would the bpo holder, whose single print in most cases can't even cover the market demand of a single day, try to sell for 145m to ruin the inventor's day, instead of seliing for 180m like they are?

Since a single bpo can only run a single production line, there is no way to increase profit by increasing output via parallel builds. So why would one voluntarily give up half the profit?

This include Ship, Module and Ammo. The exert you read about 1/3 of T2 being produced from BPO were after you EXCLUDE Ammo.

Regardless, you want to seed T2 BPO and completely **** over those players who took the time to train invention skills and acquire blueprint and manufacturing line to build t2 items? This is why you're an idiot, you want to introduce a solution that benefits you and screw over more player because YOU feel that you're not making as much isk.

CCP PLEASE REPLY TO ME NOW! I PAY FOR THIS GAME AND THEREFORE I AM ENTITLED TO A REPLY ABOUT A GAME MECHANIC I DO NOT FULLY UNDERSTAND BUT DISLIKE BECAUSE I AM MENTALLY HANDICAPPED.

This is about all I can seem to glean from your posts OP

You keep missing the part where BPO production is not scable compared to invention...

T2 Veldspar minig crystals

i smell troll

T2 BPO's should be re-seeded but not like T1 BPO's.

Don't ask me how, they just should.

Through missions, through whatever.

It would definitely allow people to reach full potential faster and EVE wouldn't remain the timesink it is when it comes to farming isk.

It would allow people to have more fun in the long run.

Also 56% of T2 ships were built with BPOs

"During Q2 2009, approximately 350,000
Tech II ships were manufactured by 6,920
different characters. 56% of these ships
were produced with BPOs, and the remaining
44% were manufactured with BPCs,"

am i missing something here, or are you getign worked up over T2 BPO's using a two year old QEN as 'proof' ?

EVE can be harsh or unfair at times, if you think a T2 BPO is better, go bloody buy one, stop complaining that you never had the chance to get one in the lotteries.

basically, HTFU

Eve is a small game with not many players. Only a few have BPOs and most of them are entitled to come on to these threads and attack any players which threaten their BPOs.

CCP should take out T2 BPOs as a whole. Relax; it's only a game right? It'll make things fair for the invention newbies and you'll get by on fine while not having a T2 original blueprint I'm sure.

The T2 BPOs greatest effect is putting downward pressure on products they produce, no different then cheap labor in China.

Here is an example:

You can manufacture a hair dryer for $2.00 in China and sell it for $20 bucks locally (x10 margin). This is analogous to holding a T2 BPO max researched.

You can manufacture a hair dryer for $9.00 locally and sell it for $90 bucks (x10 margin). This is analogous to invention lets say based on the arguements.

Now imagine you can only create 50 hair dryers in China and 300 locally.

IF we only has the 50, supply and demand would raise prices as people complete for the 50 hair dryers.
However no one wants to buy $90 dollar hair dryers either. The T2 BPO forces the price of the locally owned hair dryers down to say $40. What happens when the 50 cheap hair dryers are consumed?

Several Things Can Happen (STCH)

1)No one buys the $40 hair dryer and wait for more $20 hair dryers. (Often the case)
2)They lower the price to $20 and get virtually no margin, however can provide more of them (so volume makes up the difference in profitability)
3)The price of the $20 hair dryer from China increases and the $40 decreases until a parity is achieved. The problem is this increases the margin of the China manufacturer who can buy out more raw material to make said hair dryer forcing the local competition to either pay more for material (and driving up their cost to manufacture even more) until they are out of business because they can manfacture with a profit. (This is the OP's gripe it seems, but since minerals are near infinite).

There is an economic imbalance that has created massive Cost of Entry barriers to established industries and key goods. Because of the imbalance inflation is barely under control and key markets have been cornered. While in real life we have groups like the SEC, WTO, Reserve Banks, and a lot of real world regulation, Eve has virtually none in the form of regulation so many, if not all of you spouting on how things work "in Real Life" in real life there would be a massive amount of regulation controlling just about everything going on in the market. There are no export controls, tarrifs, environment regulation, import\export agreements, transportation costs in the form of fuel, etc. All we have is a weak tax system that in context doesn't make any sense except as a sink. So no, Eve doesn't operate like the 'real world'. If you think that you need to take a few more credits worth beyond high school macro and micro economics.

Now is the OP right? Depends on how 'real' you want Eve to be. If Eve was real, the BPOs would be irrelevant because the raw material would be in such tight in supply the 1% that have the BPOs wouldn't be able to complete with the bulk of players for mineral demands. A 1%'er might bid 100,000,000,000,000 trit at 3.00 for a bulk order but there is just that much demand split between thousands of others that would pay 3.10. However, since minerals are nearly unlimited in Eve tempered only by the time and effort a player, put in to mining, that scenario doesn't work. We are luck enough though that how the manufacturing system works in Eve, it compensates (poor imho) for that missing component of the economy. The problem is Eve is almost whimsically vulnerable (due to no regulation) to just about every economic exploit possible lending Eve to what Anti-Trust regulations were created for. Eve is a larger Corporate Trust simulator. So everyone proclaiming how "Eve is Real", so do you want CCP to kick in the Anti-Trust regulations now or after the up-coming expansion? Yeah... thought so... back to a game now...

The more power you give the 1% the more capable they are of controlling the market indefinitely, which is how real life works. Question is can people playing a game stomach that in a game too?

From a game play standpoint does it make sense to keep the T2 BPOs in the game now that we have invention? No, it doesn't. T2 BPO lottery was a bad idea to begin with.

Does it need to be removed? No 'need' isn't the operative word. Should? Yes.

Is there a fair way to do that? No, there isn't. Period. Nothing will be FAIR in context to the T2 BPOs. Fixing will **** off alliances and people profiting off them. Not fixing them discourages new players from getting involved in manufacturing when they realize, as has been shown, the disproportionate costs between invention and T2 BPOs. The Power of Scale is irrelevant since there is no immediate need in a game, everything in a game is want remember? Yes we are back to Game vs Real Life.

But to play advocate to those "Eve is Real" types I offer this solution to CCP: "In real life we would just eminent domain the BPOs in question and provide them a compensation package decided by CCP."

I mean as easy as the Pro-BPO crowd say invention is then the BPOs going away should be a minor issue correct? I mean if BPOs don't impact the market then getting rid of them with a one time cash compensation should be good for Eve's economy. After all that whole Power of Scale thing should keep things moving along just fine.

Now you may all go back to insulting one another and reinforcing every stereotype of MMO players. Try having discussions people with one another without acting like you are in junior high bitching about who was a better guitarist, Eddie Van Halen or Yngwie Malmsteen.

Lets take a vagabond bpo.... you make ONE ship of that bpo per day.... the real hubs where 10s are traded daily. Do you really think, that 1 BPO makes a single drop of difference? .

Think a little beyond "If I had a t2 BPO I would be making mad isks.... just like everyone else". No you would not, you would make as much as you can with a damn dominix bpo if t2 bpos hit the market.

I don't care any more if these precious innocent noobs get offended any more. It's just the same old clueless drivel over and over.

It's been said over and over, invent and STFU.

The t2 BPOs are not downward pressuring ****. Seriously. Lets take a vagabond bpo. Yeah, pretty sweet to have one right? Well, you make ONE ship of that bpo per day. One! 3rd rate backup trading hubs turn over several of these per day. Let's not even get started with the real hubs where 10s are traded daily. Do you really think, that 1 BPO makes a single drop of difference? Really? But but omg there is more of these bpos spamming the market omgz! STFU, so what if there's 30? Still makes no difference.

Only ships that are not profitable to invent are the ones no one flies like the frigging rook. There is not one module on the market that isn't profitable to invent, GRANTED that it's actually usefull for something. If you insist on inventing some ******** crap that doesn't sell it's not the t2 BPO owners fault.

Oh and I've seen it many times when people whine they're looking at something that doesn't even have a bpo, thinking the bpo owners are holding them down. Examples, Hics, t2 battleships, jump freighters. Yeah that's right. There is no mystical Golem bpo. How awesome are those markets doing btw? No bpo owners to screw you over there, only smarter players.

Think a little beyond "If I had a t2 BPO I would be making mad isks.... just like everyone else". No you would not, you would make as much as you can with a damn dominix bpo if t2 bpos hit the market.

I don't care any more if these precious innocent noobs get offended any more. It's just the same old clueless drivel over and over.

It's been said over and over, invent and STFU.