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prsr
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Posted - 2006.05.21 13:34:00 -
[61]
 Originally by: spurious signal
I have no problem with the general issue, the only thing that I think should be changed is the lack of security hit for this, which I hadn't actually thought about before.
I don't think it applies here. Why would someone get a security hit for other peoples mistakes?
Originally by: spurious signal
Actions should have consequences, piracy should be a profession for the brave and the cunning, not the weak and the cowardly 
In this case, the action is someone warping to a piece of space that isn't his. The consequence is you loose your ship.
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Kur'Dekaija
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Posted - 2006.05.21 13:52:00 -
[62]
bahahahahah cant belive ppl fall for this 
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Prestis
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Posted - 2006.05.21 14:19:00 -
[63]
Sec hits and killrights for POS kills?
Sure, I'll just get a fleet of shuttles a fly into every POS I can find. Then you'd have some actual griefing!
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spurious signal
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Posted - 2006.05.21 14:46:00 -
[64]
Originally by: prsr
Originally by: spurious signal
I have no problem with the general issue, the only thing that I think should be changed is the lack of security hit for this, which I hadn't actually thought about before.
I don't think it applies here. Why would someone get a security hit for other peoples mistakes?
Originally by: spurious signal
Actions should have consequences, piracy should be a profession for the brave and the cunning, not the weak and the cowardly
In this case, the action is someone warping to a piece of space that isn't his. The consequence is you loose your ship.
I disagree. If this was happening in 0.0 then fair enough, but it isn't. Any other way you kill someone in Empire space you take a sec hit, this method avoids that, sounds like something unintended to me.
But hey, the devs have the last word on this, I'm sure that there's enough victims of this that report it for a decision to be made sometime.
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Valea Silpha
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Posted - 2006.05.21 15:27:00 -
[65]
I wouldn't call it griefing, but i would say it needs some tightening up.
Everyone seems to like the 'risk/reward' arguament. The guys doing this risk basically nothing after the outlay of the POS and get plenty of reward. Thats a problem.
Theres no defence that anyone has against it either. Sure a group of people COULD pay mercs to get rid of him, but that doesn't stop him setting up shop someplace else, and doesn't destroy the wealth he's accumulated through doing it. Its not a solution.
<Hammerhead> TomB is doing the nerfing
<Hammerhead> I just stand behind him, look at his monitor and shake my head |
Lorth
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Posted - 2006.05.21 15:48:00 -
[66]
Holly jeez... Griefing WTF griefing???!!?!?
Is everything griefing now a days? Or have we simply changed the meaning to everythign you don't like?
While I think that this should come with a sec hit, or with kill rights. This is not greifing. It taking advanatage of peoples inattentivness, and carelessness to gain a profit. And frankly good for them. If someone can figure out a way to get people to wapr to a death star then they should be allowed to do so.
Its not as if there's not 627 ways to avoid this... I'm honestly surpirised that anyone would actualyl fall for it, save for the odd very new person.
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Wrench Head
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Posted - 2006.05.21 16:07:00 -
[67]
This is the equivalent to buying speakers from some guy in the parking lot.
Besides, I learned along time ago (when the dinosaurs roamed) that you don't gang warp to strangers.  |
Lorth
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Posted - 2006.05.21 16:16:00 -
[68]
Originally by: Wrench Head
This is the equivalent to buying speakers from some guy in the parking lot.
Besides, I learned along time ago (when the dinosaurs roamed) that you don't gang warp to strangers.
Not even close.
This is like... Having a guy come up to you in a dark parking lot with a bloody baseball bat. Wearing prison cover-alls. And then following him into a back alley when he says he has something cool to show you.
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Wrench Head
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Posted - 2006.05.21 16:23:00 -
[69]
Originally by: Lorth
Originally by: Wrench Head
This is the equivalent to buying speakers from some guy in the parking lot.
Besides, I learned along time ago (when the dinosaurs roamed) that you don't gang warp to strangers.
Not even close.
This is like... Having a guy come up to you in a dark parking lot with a bloody baseball bat. Wearing prison cover-alls. And then following him into a back alley when he says he has something cool to show you.
Very funny. But somehow I think the bloody bat might be a tipoff?
You really need to change parking lots, Son. Sounds a little rough in your neck of the woods.  |
Lorth
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Posted - 2006.05.21 16:28:00 -
[70]
Originally by: Wrench Head
Very funny. But somehow I think the bloody bat might be a tipoff?
You really need to change parking lots, Son. Sounds a little rough in your neck of the woods.
I live on the praires. About the most dangerous thing here it spraining your ankle on a gopher hole.
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Amerrus Eka
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Posted - 2006.05.21 16:46:00 -
[71]
It's not griefing. It's just exploiting people's stupidity and curiosity, all perfectly valid tactics in EVE. Thanks CCP, there are enough carebear games out there.
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Uggster
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Posted - 2006.05.21 17:09:00 -
[72]
Originally by: Valea Silpha
I wouldn't call it griefing, but i would say it needs some tightening up.
Everyone seems to like the 'risk/reward' arguament. The guys doing this risk basically nothing after the outlay of the POS and get plenty of reward. Thats a problem.
Theres no defence that anyone has against it either. Sure a group of people COULD pay mercs to get rid of him, but that doesn't stop him setting up shop someplace else, and doesn't destroy the wealth he's accumulated through doing it. Its not a solution.
And if everyone that he tries to gang or get to warp to the POS does not do it or goes there in a shuttle/noobship (like a poster showed a couple of days ago) then all that effort cost and fueling will be wasted.
This is Eve at it's purest.
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Bilgen
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Posted - 2006.05.21 19:54:00 -
[73]
Its a shame that people cant trust others. In that way this game is like real life. However as a game mechanic the "bloody bat" would be a low sec. rating on a player. And since this avoids the security hit then the warning is not there as intended. Of course that would be up to the devs.
I do not gang with people in low security unless they are known to me or my corp. Its a lesson well learned.
Vice Admiral
Universal Agencies |
Josclyn Verreuil
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Posted - 2006.05.21 20:14:00 -
[74]
Originally by: Valea Silpha
I wouldn't call it griefing, but i would say it needs some tightening up.
Everyone seems to like the 'risk/reward' arguament. The guys doing this risk basically nothing after the outlay of the POS and get plenty of reward. Thats a problem.
Theres no defence that anyone has against it either. Sure a group of people COULD pay mercs to get rid of him, but that doesn't stop him setting up shop someplace else, and doesn't destroy the wealth he's accumulated through doing it. Its not a solution.
Or get a few buddies together and blow up the PoS... they aren't cheap.
~Clan Verreuil |
Maximum69
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Posted - 2006.05.21 20:24:00 -
[75]
Right this is an EXPLOIT, he has destroyed my ship without taking a sec loss and he has avoided kill rights. I do not believe the gang system was designed to be used as a weapon.
Sorry to those who wanted my stuff but I have said that I will give it all to my corp.
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Kurren
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Posted - 2006.05.21 20:29:00 -
[76]
Edited by: Kurren on 21/05/2006 20:32:52
Originally by: spurious signal
I've seen another warning about this last week but it seems to be becomming more common so I thought another warning might be in order.
A new trick that griefers are using is to set up a small POS somewhere then somehow get people to warp to it, either by generating a cyno field and going "come see pretty dreads!" or by asking for help in a mission or some other similar ruse. When the victim warps in to the POS area, not knowing there's a POS there, the POS promptly ganks them.
One such griefer in Otsasai yesterday was claiming 40+ kills, 20+ of which were Battleships.
Just a heads-up anyway, this is a lame tactic for the cowardly IMO, hopefully warnings will keep others from falling victim to it. Luckily I didn't trust the griefer who asked me for help in a mission so I didn't fall prey to it, but plenty of others are still getting ganked like this.
That's not called griefing. That's called stupid pilots falling for a trap. I'd do it to if I was him. "How can I turn away prey that has so easily stumbled into my hands?"
Here's an easy solution to the gang problem...
If you don't know him... don't gang him. DUUUUUHHH!!!!
--- --- --- ---
SobaKai.com
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Kel Shek
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Posted - 2006.05.21 21:08:00 -
[77]
Originally by: spurious signal
I've seen another warning about this last week but it seems to be becomming more common so I thought another warning might be in order.
A new trick that griefers are using is to set up a small POS somewhere then somehow get people to warp to it, either by generating a cyno field and going "come see pretty dreads!" or by asking for help in a mission or some other similar ruse. When the victim warps in to the POS area, not knowing there's a POS there, the POS promptly ganks them.
One such griefer in Otsasai yesterday was claiming 40+ kills, 20+ of which were Battleships.
Just a heads-up anyway, this is a lame tactic for the cowardly IMO, hopefully warnings will keep others from falling victim to it. Luckily I didn't trust the griefer who asked me for help in a mission so I didn't fall prey to it, but plenty of others are still getting ganked like this.
let me get this straight....
they are using a cyno field, spending money on fuel... as bait for people who would come to that field, and GREIF the generator, deliberately inhibiting the person who would normally be trying to use that cyno field... when they can't do anything about it... and these people get popped by PoS defenses.
or people asking for help... in low sec... and someone attempting to help, ... in low sec, jumps to a moon and is blown up.
I see no problem with this.
I also see no problem with faked mis-chats "accidentally" revealing their "safespot"/meeting point that happens to be at a moon... and pirates coming to that spot, trying to greif the people allegedly minding their own business, and get popped by PoS defenses.
are you serious? why the hell is this a problem at all?
~~~~~
To see a World in a Grain of Sand
And Heaven in a Wild Flower
Hold Infinity in the palm of your hand
And Eternity in an hour
~~William Blake |
Qolde
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Posted - 2006.05.21 21:08:00 -
[78]
It's a totally fair tactic. It can only be used in low sec and 0.0. If you are smart enough to survive in lowsec, then you should be fine. Anytime you gang someone you don't know in lowsec, you are asking for trouble, plain and simple. Anytime you warp to a Cyno field that you did not employ, you are signing your own death certificate. Avoiding the sec hit is irrelevant. You forfeited the sec hit when you ganged with the guy. As before when people would invite you to gangs to just straight up shoot you down, we have a new tactic in play since they nerfed that. The players WILL find a way to play how they want, and the game balances itself. Basically, eve rule number one: Don't trust anyone. There are people who play this game who will invite you to a barbecue in real life to gain your trust, just to rob you blind in game. Just because your spirit of discernment is not aligned, does not mean that the game needs to be changed. Maybe you need to be changed.
[URL=http://www.glitteryourway.com][/URL] |
Aeina Caeraen
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Posted - 2006.05.21 21:55:00 -
[79]
Edited by: Aeina Caeraen on 21/05/2006 21:58:56
Qolde, your sig is so going to get modded, and you closed your last tag twice...
Anyway, I turn on "auto reject invitations in empire" for precisely this kind of thing :P
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Lord Frost
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Posted - 2006.05.22 00:54:00 -
[80]
thats about as smart as someone saying "come to planet 1 moon 4 and look here"... you fly in, and they pop you... this isnt a grief, just a dumbarse actually listening to him.
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Lorth
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Posted - 2006.05.22 01:23:00 -
[81]
Originally by: Maximum69
Right this is an EXPLOIT, he has destroyed my ship without taking a sec loss and he has avoided kill rights. I do not believe the gang system was designed to be used as a weapon.
Sorry to those who wanted my stuff but I have said that I will give it all to my corp.
Aww muffin
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NickWest
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Posted - 2006.05.22 02:43:00 -
[82]
WHAT? It appears the cost of stupidity is still quite high in this quaint little world we call Eve.
Greifing is great, the fact that little cargo containers pop out of dead people is just icing.
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Sakura Nihil
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Posted - 2006.05.22 04:34:00 -
[83]
It's not griefing if you choose willingly to fly to it - if you're a one-day old and someone says "go to <location> and you'll get free isk", that's griefing imo.
damn sig hijack!!11!
Signature removed. Max filesize is 24,000 bytes. -Eldo ([email protected])
Forum warrior in training =P |
Avon
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Posted - 2006.05.22 05:13:00 -
[84]
I still find it impossible to defend this.
Killing in Empire without consequence is wrong, period.
Either your POS should only fire on legitimate war targets, or there should be consequence to allowing it to fire upon neutrals, unless fired upon.
At least gate gankers accept the penalty of their actions. I have more respect for them than those who use a POS in this way.
The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur |
Lorth
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Posted - 2006.05.22 05:25:00 -
[85]
Originally by: Avon
I still find it impossible to defend this.
Killing in Empire without consequence is wrong, period.
Either your POS should only fire on legitimate war targets, or there should be consequence to allowing it to fire upon neutrals, unless fired upon.
At least gate gankers accept the penalty of their actions. I have more respect for them than those who use a POS in this way.
True, but I think there's also the issue of me warping into your POS's for hours in shuttle just to lower your sec status. That is griefing, and would certainly happen if there were sec hit for your POS.
Kill right are about the best option IMO.
The tactic I support, the fact that it has no consequense I don't.
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Deja Thoris
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Posted - 2006.05.22 05:30:00 -
[86]
Originally by: Lorth
Originally by: Avon
I still find it impossible to defend this.
Killing in Empire without consequence is wrong, period.
Either your POS should only fire on legitimate war targets, or there should be consequence to allowing it to fire upon neutrals, unless fired upon.
At least gate gankers accept the penalty of their actions. I have more respect for them than those who use a POS in this way.
True, but I think there's also the issue of me warping into your POS's for hours in shuttle just to lower your sec status. That is griefing, and would certainly happen if there were sec hit for your POS.
Kill right are about the best option IMO.
The tactic I support, the fact that it has no consequense I don't.
Quite simple, make the POS fire back
If you want to posgank all comers then make it give sec hits. (How exactly I'm not sure)
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Kurren
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Posted - 2006.05.22 05:34:00 -
[87]
Originally by: NickWest
WHAT? It appears the cost of stupidity is still quite high in this quaint little world we call Eve.
Greifing is great, the fact that little cargo containers pop out of dead people is just icing.
[highjack] This from you? A meek little corp jumper? Talk of killing when you can stand and fight. [/highjack]
--- --- --- ---
SobaKai.com
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Avon
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Posted - 2006.05.22 05:37:00 -
[88]
Originally by: Lorth
True, but I think there's also the issue of me warping into your POS's for hours in shuttle just to lower your sec status. That is griefing, and would certainly happen if there were sec hit for your POS.
To be honest, that would be fine with me.
If people choose to set their POS to fire upon neutrals (and why would they?) then why shouldn't it get a sec hit? People 'exploiting' that sec hit would be no more griefing than the people who are abusing the fact their is no sec hit. At least it would encourage people to NOT set their empire POS to fire on neutrals who have not fired upon it.
The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur |
Avon
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Posted - 2006.05.22 05:41:00 -
[89]
Originally by: Deja Thoris
Originally by: Lorth
Originally by: Avon
I still find it impossible to defend this.
Killing in Empire without consequence is wrong, period.
Either your POS should only fire on legitimate war targets, or there should be consequence to allowing it to fire upon neutrals, unless fired upon.
At least gate gankers accept the penalty of their actions. I have more respect for them than those who use a POS in this way.
True, but I think there's also the issue of me warping into your POS's for hours in shuttle just to lower your sec status. That is griefing, and would certainly happen if there were sec hit for your POS.
Kill right are about the best option IMO.
The tactic I support, the fact that it has no consequense I don't.
Quite simple, make the POS fire back
If you want to posgank all comers then make it give sec hits. (How exactly I'm not sure)
Give the POS sec hits.
Sec status modifies how many of those silly permit thingies you have to use to run your empire POS.
Makes sense.
The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur |
Crumplecorn
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Posted - 2006.05.22 07:56:00 -
[90]
Not griefing.
STFU.
That is all.
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Sorry but that link contains nawty language. -wystler
"Discussing moderation is not allowed" - Ivan K
"Ranting is prohibited" - Teblin
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