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spurious signal
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Posted - 2006.05.21 07:56:00 -
[1]
I've seen another warning about this last week but it seems to be becomming more common so I thought another warning might be in order.
A new trick that griefers are using is to set up a small POS somewhere then somehow get people to warp to it, either by generating a cyno field and going "come see pretty dreads!" or by asking for help in a mission or some other similar ruse. When the victim warps in to the POS area, not knowing there's a POS there, the POS promptly ganks them.
One such griefer in Otsasai yesterday was claiming 40+ kills, 20+ of which were Battleships.
Just a heads-up anyway, this is a lame tactic for the cowardly IMO, hopefully warnings will keep others from falling victim to it. Luckily I didn't trust the griefer who asked me for help in a mission so I didn't fall prey to it, but plenty of others are still getting ganked like this.
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Jenny Spitfire
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Posted - 2006.05.21 07:58:00 -
[2]
Old news. 
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RecruitMe@NOINT!
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spurious signal
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Posted - 2006.05.21 07:59:00 -
[3]
 Originally by: Jenny Spitfire
Old news.
I know, that's why I said that I'd already seen a warning like this, old news doesn't mean it's useless news though 
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Kaladr
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Posted - 2006.05.21 08:11:00 -
[4]
Darwin strikes again.
----
EVE-Central.com | Obsidian Technologies - 0.0 Manufacturing, Defense and Logistics. We're hiring! Mail me |
Galk
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Posted - 2006.05.21 08:11:00 -
[5]
It's about time ccp took a hardline against this sort of thing.
Pure greifing.
______
Long ago one gorgeous night, we let the stars grow free.
We let Zhuge do that once, he came back carrying a traffic cone, a forsale sign and three empty bottles of dutch lager. He also lost his Zimmer Frame... - Imaran
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Ephemeron
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Posted - 2006.05.21 08:23:00 -
[6]
The sooner new people learn this game is about trickery and backstabbing - the better.
Sheltering people from certain "bad" tricks will simply postpone their lesson, till they encounter some other trick.
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Ather Ialeas
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Posted - 2006.05.21 08:25:00 -
[7]
My top3 favorite POS types:
1) Flycatcher POS (described in OP)
2) wtfbbq POS, also known as Death Star POS (does over 10k dps )
3) Carebear POS (only moon mining and reaction stuff)
I see nothing bad in flycatcher POSses since the basic rule of EVE is "Don't buy anything you can't afford to lose."
________________________________________________
My signature exploded :/ |
Kuolematon
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Posted - 2006.05.21 08:29:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Kuolematon on 21/05/2006 08:29:12
Being uber carebear I say "Keep boys having some fun!"
No need to change mechanics that aren't broken.
Perhaps some "american style" warning box when your jumping to cyno about some possible danger. 
Unnerf Amarr!
Proud member of Caldari Provisions |
Maximum69
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Posted - 2006.05.21 08:46:00 -
[9]
Same thing has just happened to me, Raven destroyed. Demos Altayr tricked me into his gang then warped to his station where i got destroyed. This is an EXPLOIT ccp, the player is avoiding a sec drop and avoiding kill rights being put on him.
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Alliaanna Dalaii
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Posted - 2006.05.21 08:55:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Maximum69
Same thing has just happened to me, Raven destroyed. Demos Altayr tricked me into his gang then warped to his station where i got destroyed. This is an EXPLOIT ccp, the player is avoiding a sec drop and avoiding kill rights being put on him.
Lol, Sucks to be you
Darwin 4tw
Alliaanna
Official Follower of =-= Royal Hiigaran Navy =-=
Make POS's Hackable.. Support this thread ! |
babylonstew
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Posted - 2006.05.21 09:01:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Maximum69
Same thing has just happened to me, Raven destroyed. Demos Altayr tricked me into his gang then warped to his station where i got destroyed. This is an EXPLOIT ccp, the player is avoiding a sec drop and avoiding kill rights being put on him.
yup, we really need a cancel warp button, o wait a minute
dont join gangs you dont know, dont follow them in warp.
Forum advice Linkage |
Plutoinum
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Posted - 2006.05.21 09:04:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Maximum69
Same thing has just happened to me, Raven destroyed. Demos Altayr tricked me into his gang then warped to his station where i got destroyed. This is an EXPLOIT ccp, the player is avoiding a sec drop and avoiding kill rights being put on him.
Yes, that's evil. It happened to 2 mates last sommer, when they accepted a gang invite from an enemy and got warped to a POS. Tempest and mega dead. Since then I always check gang invites and block the guys, who send out gang invites to hostiles.
Ok, last time I accepted a gang invote from an enemy. The first thing I read in gang chat was: 'Warp to him ! .... Warp !' or something like this and then I informed them that I sat on station. That was quite funny.
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Maximum69
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Posted - 2006.05.21 09:16:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Maximum69 on 21/05/2006 09:20:54
Surely it's an exploit!! He's using the game to destroy members without taking a sec lv loss.
Anyway I have put in a petition, if it comes out bad i'm leavin, I can't be bothered putting my time into a game for some C**T to ruin it with loopholes that CCP should know about.
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R3dSh1ft
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Posted - 2006.05.21 09:23:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Jenny Spitfire
Old news.
Its not news its a warning. read.
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Ishquar Teh'Sainte
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Posted - 2006.05.21 09:28:00 -
[15]
Originally by: babylonstew
Originally by: Maximum69
Same thing has just happened to me, Raven destroyed. Demos Altayr tricked me into his gang then warped to his station where i got destroyed. This is an EXPLOIT ccp, the player is avoiding a sec drop and avoiding kill rights being put on him.
yup, we really need a cancel warp button, o wait a minute
dont join gangs you dont know, dont follow them in warp.
strg+space cancels warp if applied early enough
the rest: /signed
common sense helps in most cases
___________________
-Skellibjalla- Life is a garden of perceptions. Pick your fruit.
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Miss Overlord
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Posted - 2006.05.21 09:41:00 -
[16]
mmm selection of the dumbest not an exploit afaik otherwise CCP would fix it
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bumcheekcity
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Posted - 2006.05.21 09:59:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Maximum69
Edited by: Maximum69 on 21/05/2006 09:20:54
Surely it's an exploit!! He's using the game to destroy members without taking a sec lv loss.
Anyway I have put in a petition, if it comes out bad i'm leavin, I can't be bothered putting my time into a game for some C**T to ruin it with loopholes that CCP should know about.
I for one, think we should have a T2 STFU module to conter the T2 Winge module that this gentlemen is using.
--
Interseted in skills?
Necessary Skills
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Krulla
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Posted - 2006.05.21 10:02:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Maximum69
Edited by: Maximum69 on 21/05/2006 09:20:54
Surely it's an exploit!! He's using the game to destroy members without taking a sec lv loss.
Anyway I have put in a petition, if it comes out bad i'm leavin, I can't be bothered putting my time into a game for some C**T to ruin it with loopholes that CCP should know about.
Welcome to EvE online. A game where creative thinking like this is encouraged, not banned.
You could easily have avoided this by not being a muppet and joining a unknown gang.
Tarkin > Omfg, frigs are such bs.
Red 5 > lolol, lern 2 play plz noob
SIG HIJACK!!11 RAWRR!!1- IMMY
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Avon
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Posted - 2006.05.21 10:06:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Maximum69
Edited by: Maximum69 on 21/05/2006 09:20:54
Surely it's an exploit!! He's using the game to destroy members without taking a sec lv loss.
Anyway I have put in a petition, if it comes out bad i'm leavin, I can't be bothered putting my time into a game for some C**T to ruin it with loopholes that CCP should know about.
I brought up this exact issue before POS's were allowed in Empire, along with suggested solutions (not to the ganking, but to the ganking without penalty.)
There were lots of other good suggestions in the threat, but it would seem the CCP decided not to adopt any.
If they change things now it will just be another example of the players having more foresight and knowledge of how the game is played than the devs have, and so change is unlikely.
Personally I could care less. But then I expect stuff like this and play accordingly. However, the game is not played only by people like me (fortunately), and unlikely though it may seem, I do consider how game changes will affect all sorts of players.
Personally I think POS griefing is bad simply because it avoids consequence, not because blowing people up is in itself bad.
Obviously the dev's have a different opinion, and at the end of the day it is their game.
The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur |
HippoKing
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Posted - 2006.05.21 10:32:00 -
[20]
its not griefing, its piracy.
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FooB2
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Posted - 2006.05.21 10:34:00 -
[21]
yes, its an exploit. ill give you that.
however, hes not exploiting game mechanics, hes exploiting the flaws in your head. you should omgpetition to god and ask for re-imbursment cos you lost your brain due to LAGGGGG
Pre-Nerfed Tactics - yes, we are just plain nasty boys. |
AlienBreed
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Posted - 2006.05.21 10:35:00 -
[22]
Quote:
Surely it's an exploit!! He's using the game to destroy members without taking a sec lv loss.
thats a very good point tbh
how ever you want to look at this issue the one thing you can say is thats an exploit and GMs ought to take action on it
if it has the side effect that you cant pull off this little lameness any more then perhaps thats not such a bad thing but evading sec loss should not be allowed
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babylonstew
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Posted - 2006.05.21 10:36:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Maximum69
Edited by: Maximum69 on 21/05/2006 09:20:54
Surely it's an exploit!! He's using the game to destroy members without taking a sec lv loss.
Anyway I have put in a petition, if it comes out bad i'm leavin, I can't be bothered putting my time into a game for some C**T to ruin it with loopholes that CCP should know about.
can i have whatever stuff you have left?
allways wanted to be first to post that in a thread \o/
Forum advice Linkage |
HippoKing
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Posted - 2006.05.21 10:38:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Maximum69
Surely it's an exploit!! He's using the game to destroy members without taking a sec lv loss.
Anyway I have put in a petition, if it comes out bad i'm leavin, I can't be bothered putting my time into a game for some C**T to ruin it with loopholes that CCP should know about.
Can I have your stuff?
By the way, when looking for a replacement hobby, I understand croquet is rated very highly at the moment.
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HippoKing
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Posted - 2006.05.21 10:39:00 -
[25]
Originally by: babylonstew
Originally by: Maximum69
Edited by: Maximum69 on 21/05/2006 09:20:54
Surely it's an exploit!! He's using the game to destroy members without taking a sec lv loss.
Anyway I have put in a petition, if it comes out bad i'm leavin, I can't be bothered putting my time into a game for some C**T to ruin it with loopholes that CCP should know about.
can i have whatever stuff you have left?
allways wanted to be first to post that in a thread \o/
son of a *****. 2 minutes, while i was thinking up a follow-on to the croquet comment (never got one i was happy with  )
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babylonstew
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Posted - 2006.05.21 10:40:00 -
[26]
 beat ya \ /
Forum advice Linkage |
FooB2
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Posted - 2006.05.21 10:41:00 -
[27]
which one is that? the one where you knit bobble hats or the one where you eat crumpets and drink tea all day whilst knocking around balls with a big mallet?
Pre-Nerfed Tactics - yes, we are just plain nasty boys. |
Vistilantus
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Posted - 2006.05.21 10:42:00 -
[28]
Edited by: Vistilantus on 21/05/2006 10:45:28
Originally by: Galk
It's about time ccp took a hardline against this sort of thing.
Pure greifing.
It's not greifing, it's using social engineering to get what you want. There is nothing stopping the residents of Otsasai (myself being one of them) from gathering a force to destroy the POS, whether that be a fleet of our own ships or hiring mercs.
What the guy is doing is great, we warn people about the POS and they still fall for it. I fell for it too, but i lived to tell the tale ^_^
sometimes life is too cosy and you need a reality check, that's what we're getting :)
___________________________________________________
~Vistilantus
~LFC |
Obmud
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Posted - 2006.05.21 10:42:00 -
[29]
Well in my personal view it is an exploit (gangsystem was not intended that way), the big downside on this is, that people won't help you anymore if this is getting usual, and thats always a bad thing.
-----------------------
This signature got altered because it was way to sexy and uber. If you want to know why don't ask. We're still horny. |
Sensor Error
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Posted - 2006.05.21 10:43:00 -
[30]
I don't know how anyone can defend this kind of behavior.
People say that stealing ore, war dec'ing corps any saying its rp, log on traps and 200km gate snipers are all griefing.
Let us take a moment to see what a griefer is anyway.
Griefing, by definition is causing other players duress without personal gain, and purely to cause them suffering.
Therefore, all the above are not forms of griefing, as the purps have some form of income from it.
Fair enough, they do gain income from dropped loot and stuff, which I guess kinda voids part of that argument, but still.
This is just pure griefing, without penalty as there is no sec lost anywhere (I assume). This does need to be plugged, or at the very least get some official word from CCP...
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE!!!
------------------------------------------
Dev Responses to common questions |
AlienBreed
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Posted - 2006.05.21 10:46:00 -
[31]
it is greifing, but 99% of griefing is allowed in this game
just the way it is
the only real issue here is the evasion of sec status loss
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Novarei
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Posted - 2006.05.21 10:46:00 -
[32]
natural selection in practice
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FooB2
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Posted - 2006.05.21 10:46:00 -
[33]
or, it means you...
a) dont accept gangs from strange people in low-sec.
b) dont warp to bookmarks you "happen" to find in low-sec.
like i said before, its an exploit. not of game mechanics, its an exploit of the flaws in your head.
Pre-Nerfed Tactics - yes, we are just plain nasty boys. |
babylonstew
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Posted - 2006.05.21 10:48:00 -
[34]
nobody forces you to accept a gang invite.
nobody forces you to go watch the prtty cyno fields
and im not defending it as such, but i dont think calling it an exploit becos some people are intellectually challange is right either
Forum advice Linkage |
Vistilantus
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Posted - 2006.05.21 10:48:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Sensor Error
Let us take a moment to see what a griefer is anyway.
Griefing, by definition is causing other players duress without personal gain, and purely to cause them suffering.
the dude is taking your stuff when you go BANG, so he is getting personal gain.
therefore, using your definition of greifing, this is, in fact, not greifing.
thank's
___________________________________________________
~Vistilantus
~LFC |
Fredbob
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Posted - 2006.05.21 11:03:00 -
[36]
I sat in a covert watching people enter a 0.0 system where someone had put up a POS 1jump from empire, stuck a few guns on it, and left a cyn feild going all day for people to warp to.
The number of people that blindly warped to the feild amazed me.. have you people not heard of covert ops ships? Do you not think a cyn feild will be defended?
More obviously, do people not scan ahead?
The tools are there to avoid those tools that people are using to kill you in this way 
___________
~Fredbob~
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babylonstew
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Posted - 2006.05.21 11:13:00 -
[37]
trouble is, requires forethought lvl 1, a lot fo whiners here dont seam to have trained yet sadly ^^^
Forum advice Linkage |
Hotice
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Posted - 2006.05.21 11:29:00 -
[38]
Generally, I don't accept any gang invite in low sec. unless it was from somebody I know. I'm not the same nice guy like when I was in high sec. People with less than perfect standing warp near me will get poped without question asked. Trust no one is the basic rule in low sec and 0.0. However, I do think there should be a big button for stop warp. Right now, if somebody initiate gang warp, it is pretty hard to stop it. Having a stop warp button is not a game breaking change is it?
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Vertical
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Posted - 2006.05.21 11:30:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Ephemeron
The sooner new people learn this game is about trickery and backstabbing - the better.
Sheltering people from certain "bad" tricks will simply postpone their lesson, till they encounter some other trick.
Learning through experience, Eve is still a game so let them play
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Don't select Amarr in character generation
screen if you don't like sticks and bananas!
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Constantine Arcanum
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Posted - 2006.05.21 11:39:00 -
[40]
It's a good tactic for murderising people, but you should still at least get a kill right on the person, not a sec drop.
Scenario:
Person warps to a POS belonging to someone mission running on the other side of the map in a highsec system. For security, the POS is set to "shoot everyone except +ve standings". The person gets ganked by the POS, and the guy mission running is concordokkened and his sec status reduced.
Hardly seems fair.
Killrights seems acceptable though.
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Constantine Arcanum
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Posted - 2006.05.21 11:41:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Hotice
Having a stop warp button is not a game breaking change is it?
There is one, just set your speed to 0 m/s by using the speedometer button at the bottom. You can do this at any time unless you are actually midwarp.
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HippoKing
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Posted - 2006.05.21 11:49:00 -
[42]
Originally by: FooB2
which one is that? the one where you knit bobble hats or the one where you eat crumpets and drink tea all day whilst knocking around balls with a big mallet?
i was thinking of the mallets. Knitting is crochet i think
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HippoKing
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Posted - 2006.05.21 11:50:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Constantine Arcanum
It's a good tactic for murderising people, but you should still at least get a kill right on the person, not a sec drop.
Scenario:
Person warps to a POS belonging to someone mission running on the other side of the map in a highsec system. For security, the POS is set to "shoot everyone except +ve standings". The person gets ganked by the POS, and the guy mission running is concordokkened and his sec status reduced.
Hardly seems fair.
Killrights seems acceptable though.
can't be done in high sec. POSs will only shoot agressors and war targets there.
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FooB2
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Posted - 2006.05.21 11:51:00 -
[44]
yeah, tea and crumpets own. im not one for knitting bobble hats.
things can only get better when mallets and balls are involved.
Pre-Nerfed Tactics - yes, we are just plain nasty boys. |
Blayde Firefly
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Posted - 2006.05.21 11:54:00 -
[45]
Right click HUD > "stop ship"
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Gabriel Karade
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Posted - 2006.05.21 11:57:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Sensor Error
I don't know how anyone can defend this kind of behavior.
People say that stealing ore, war dec'ing corps any saying its rp, log on traps and 200km gate snipers are all griefing.
Let us take a moment to see what a griefer is anyway.
Griefing, by definition is causing other players duress without personal gain, and purely to cause them suffering.
Therefore, all the above are not forms of griefing, as the purps have some form of income from it.
Fair enough, they do gain income from dropped loot and stuff, which I guess kinda voids part of that argument, but still.
This is just pure griefing, without penalty as there is no sec lost anywhere (I assume). This does need to be plugged, or at the very least get some official word from CCP...
Make your mind up...
No, it doesn't fall under the definition of griefing, as there is personal gain...
----------
- Office Linebacker -
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Constantine Arcanum
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Posted - 2006.05.21 11:59:00 -
[47]
Originally by: HippoKing
Originally by: Constantine Arcanum
It's a good tactic for murderising people, but you should still at least get a kill right on the person, not a sec drop.
Scenario:
Person warps to a POS belonging to someone mission running on the other side of the map in a highsec system. For security, the POS is set to "shoot everyone except +ve standings". The person gets ganked by the POS, and the guy mission running is concordokkened and his sec status reduced.
Hardly seems fair.
Killrights seems acceptable though.
can't be done in high sec. POSs will only shoot agressors and war targets there.
Yeah, sorry I phrased it wrong...
the POS is in a lowsec system is what I meant.
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HippoKing
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Posted - 2006.05.21 12:02:00 -
[48]
Originally by: AlienBreed
it is greifing, but 99% of griefing is allowed in this game
no, it is NOT griefing. there is personal gain :. it is not griefing
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prsr
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Posted - 2006.05.21 12:04:00 -
[49]
This thread *****s me up
Anyone calling for sec status drops or kill rights should check their heads. If there's anyone that should be punished for flying a ship into a hostile starbase it's the pilot that pushed the button to warp there.
Why blame the owner of the moon you choose to warp to... You should be making excuses for disturbing his piece of space.
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Galk
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Posted - 2006.05.21 12:04:00 -
[50]
Originally by: HippoKing
Originally by: AlienBreed
it is greifing, but 99% of griefing is allowed in this game
no, it is NOT griefing. there is personal gain :. it is not griefing
Yeah...
Personal gain.... A good kick out of it
Everybody knows why people do it
______
Long ago one gorgeous night, we let the stars grow free.
We let Zhuge do that once, he came back carrying a traffic cone, a forsale sign and three empty bottles of dutch lager. He also lost his Zimmer Frame... - Imaran
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prsr
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Posted - 2006.05.21 12:10:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Galk
Everybody knows why people do it
Yea, for the loot cans in this case.
And I'm sure it's quite hilarious to watch noobs invading your property and getting fried without a chance for their insolence.
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HippoKing
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Posted - 2006.05.21 12:14:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Galk
Originally by: HippoKing
Originally by: AlienBreed
it is greifing, but 99% of griefing is allowed in this game
no, it is NOT griefing. there is personal gain :. it is not griefing
Yeah...
Personal gain.... A good kick out of it
Everybody knows why people do it
yeah, if you look, he said he got over 20 battleship kills. Assuming 10-20mil average of loot from each (entirely reasonable, could probably expect more in an agent system), he's just made at least 200-400mil for a days work, and thats ignoring the other kills.
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Galk
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Posted - 2006.05.21 12:16:00 -
[53]
Edited by: Galk on 21/05/2006 12:18:43
Edited by: Galk on 21/05/2006 12:17:44
Sorry troll i don't bite.
I made my point, it's the truth, ofc there are greifers in the game, it's just a shame there's total ignorance of them existing because of the freeform nature of the game..
______
Long ago one gorgeous night, we let the stars grow free.
We let Zhuge do that once, he came back carrying a traffic cone, a forsale sign and three empty bottles of dutch lager. He also lost his Zimmer Frame... - Imaran
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FooB2
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Posted - 2006.05.21 12:17:00 -
[54]
i did it in the mighty kites, and i loved it. theres nothing like logging on in the morning to find theres 3 BS kills in corp-mail and 3 T2'd up loot cans sitting right on the edge of your POS bubble simply because you thought it would be funny to bookmark your tower and call it "Hidden Complex - <systemname>" and leave it at a can at a gate with a bunch of T1 guns and ammo to make it look like a drop.
if you fall for something like that, you not only deserve it but you should be castrated to stop you tainting the gene pool.
Pre-Nerfed Tactics - yes, we are just plain nasty boys. |
HippoKing
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Posted - 2006.05.21 12:18:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Galk
Sorry troll, i don't bite.
I made my point, it's the truth, ofc there are greifers in the game, it's just a shame there's total ignorance of them existing because of the freeform nature of the game..
I'm not saying there aren't griefers. Go to kisogo and looks for ********s trying to gank ibises using can flagging in caracals. I'm just saying this isn't griefing. Incidentally, what part of my post makes me a troll?
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Galk
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Posted - 2006.05.21 12:19:00 -
[56]
Refering to prsr.
______
Long ago one gorgeous night, we let the stars grow free.
We let Zhuge do that once, he came back carrying a traffic cone, a forsale sign and three empty bottles of dutch lager. He also lost his Zimmer Frame... - Imaran
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prsr
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Posted - 2006.05.21 12:30:00 -
[57]
Edited by: prsr on 21/05/2006 12:31:34
Originally by: Galk
I made my point, it's the truth, ofc there are greifers in the game, it's just a shame there's total ignorance of them existing because of the freeform nature of the game..
Yes, I remember how there was a big 20 page thread just this week entitled "There are no grievers in eve" and everyone agreed without reservations whatsoever.
Oh wait...
I've been in a corp that's over 2.5 years old and was wardecced for no apparent reasons for over half that time. Assuming that I'm trolling is not helping your case here.
Making use of perfectly normal and widely known game mechanics and earning isk of the incompetence of other players is *not* griefing.
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Galk
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Posted - 2006.05.21 12:38:00 -
[58]
Cheerfully totaly ignored.
These guys are griefers, im sticking to it.
You can justify just about anything in eve, if you want to continue, then go for it.
I called you a troll, simpley because you one lined it... when you knew exactly what i meant... i presume to wind me up....
Like i said, 3 years iv'e been around here.... it's typicaly eve, so easy to ignore and not to raise to it.
Im out of this anyway, when it becomes personal, the worse it gets....
My opinion on the topic stands....
These guys are greifers doing it for kicks....... the mere fact they anounce it with the big... look what we do.... what we have killed... ect ect....
Well, i generaly know what that means after kicking around net gamming for the last 9 years
______
Long ago one gorgeous night, we let the stars grow free.
We let Zhuge do that once, he came back carrying a traffic cone, a forsale sign and three empty bottles of dutch lager. He also lost his Zimmer Frame... - Imaran
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spurious signal
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Posted - 2006.05.21 12:40:00 -
[59]
I have no problem with the general issue, the only thing that I think should be changed is the lack of security hit for this, which I hadn't actually thought about before.
I started this thread purely to warn others, not to whine about it or to demand anything be changed. I posted it as a warning because I hate the cowardly, risk-free nature of this particular trick. It's not piracy, it's griefing. Pirates have balls. This is just pathetic and the fact that it avoids the security hit makes it even worse.
I've been pirated before, ganked in a low-sec system while hauling, didn't complain once, didn't moan, didn't smacktalk, didn't come here. This POS trick *didn't* get me, I've not come here to cry about my loss, I haven't lost a thing. I just hate cowards.
Actions should have consequences, piracy should be a profession for the brave and the cunning, not the weak and the cowardly
|
FooB2
|
Posted - 2006.05.21 12:48:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Galk
Cheerfully totaly ignored.
blah blah
so basically, you say "you guys are griefers, and god forbid anyone disagrees with me, so whatever they say shouldnt count"
Pre-Nerfed Tactics - yes, we are just plain nasty boys. |
prsr
|
Posted - 2006.05.21 13:34:00 -
[61]
Originally by: spurious signal
I have no problem with the general issue, the only thing that I think should be changed is the lack of security hit for this, which I hadn't actually thought about before.
I don't think it applies here. Why would someone get a security hit for other peoples mistakes?
Originally by: spurious signal
Actions should have consequences, piracy should be a profession for the brave and the cunning, not the weak and the cowardly
In this case, the action is someone warping to a piece of space that isn't his. The consequence is you loose your ship.
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Kur'Dekaija
|
Posted - 2006.05.21 13:52:00 -
[62]
bahahahahah cant belive ppl fall for this
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Prestis
|
Posted - 2006.05.21 14:19:00 -
[63]
Sec hits and killrights for POS kills?
Sure, I'll just get a fleet of shuttles a fly into every POS I can find. Then you'd have some actual griefing!
|
spurious signal
|
Posted - 2006.05.21 14:46:00 -
[64]
Originally by: prsr
Originally by: spurious signal
I have no problem with the general issue, the only thing that I think should be changed is the lack of security hit for this, which I hadn't actually thought about before.
I don't think it applies here. Why would someone get a security hit for other peoples mistakes?
Originally by: spurious signal
Actions should have consequences, piracy should be a profession for the brave and the cunning, not the weak and the cowardly
In this case, the action is someone warping to a piece of space that isn't his. The consequence is you loose your ship.
I disagree. If this was happening in 0.0 then fair enough, but it isn't. Any other way you kill someone in Empire space you take a sec hit, this method avoids that, sounds like something unintended to me.
But hey, the devs have the last word on this, I'm sure that there's enough victims of this that report it for a decision to be made sometime.
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Valea Silpha
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Posted - 2006.05.21 15:27:00 -
[65]
I wouldn't call it griefing, but i would say it needs some tightening up.
Everyone seems to like the 'risk/reward' arguament. The guys doing this risk basically nothing after the outlay of the POS and get plenty of reward. Thats a problem.
Theres no defence that anyone has against it either. Sure a group of people COULD pay mercs to get rid of him, but that doesn't stop him setting up shop someplace else, and doesn't destroy the wealth he's accumulated through doing it. Its not a solution.
<Hammerhead> TomB is doing the nerfing
<Hammerhead> I just stand behind him, look at his monitor and shake my head |
Lorth
|
Posted - 2006.05.21 15:48:00 -
[66]
Holly jeez... Griefing WTF griefing???!!?!?
Is everything griefing now a days? Or have we simply changed the meaning to everythign you don't like?
While I think that this should come with a sec hit, or with kill rights. This is not greifing. It taking advanatage of peoples inattentivness, and carelessness to gain a profit. And frankly good for them. If someone can figure out a way to get people to wapr to a death star then they should be allowed to do so.
Its not as if there's not 627 ways to avoid this... I'm honestly surpirised that anyone would actualyl fall for it, save for the odd very new person.
 |
Wrench Head
|
Posted - 2006.05.21 16:07:00 -
[67]
This is the equivalent to buying speakers from some guy in the parking lot.
Besides, I learned along time ago (when the dinosaurs roamed) that you don't gang warp to strangers. |
Lorth
|
Posted - 2006.05.21 16:16:00 -
[68]
Originally by: Wrench Head
This is the equivalent to buying speakers from some guy in the parking lot.
Besides, I learned along time ago (when the dinosaurs roamed) that you don't gang warp to strangers.
Not even close.
This is like... Having a guy come up to you in a dark parking lot with a bloody baseball bat. Wearing prison cover-alls. And then following him into a back alley when he says he has something cool to show you.
|
Wrench Head
|
Posted - 2006.05.21 16:23:00 -
[69]
Originally by: Lorth
Originally by: Wrench Head
This is the equivalent to buying speakers from some guy in the parking lot.
Besides, I learned along time ago (when the dinosaurs roamed) that you don't gang warp to strangers.
Not even close.
This is like... Having a guy come up to you in a dark parking lot with a bloody baseball bat. Wearing prison cover-alls. And then following him into a back alley when he says he has something cool to show you.
Very funny. But somehow I think the bloody bat might be a tipoff?
You really need to change parking lots, Son. Sounds a little rough in your neck of the woods. |
Lorth
|
Posted - 2006.05.21 16:28:00 -
[70]
Originally by: Wrench Head
Very funny. But somehow I think the bloody bat might be a tipoff?
You really need to change parking lots, Son. Sounds a little rough in your neck of the woods.
I live on the praires. About the most dangerous thing here it spraining your ankle on a gopher hole.
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Amerrus Eka
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Posted - 2006.05.21 16:46:00 -
[71]
It's not griefing. It's just exploiting people's stupidity and curiosity, all perfectly valid tactics in EVE. Thanks CCP, there are enough carebear games out there.
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Uggster
|
Posted - 2006.05.21 17:09:00 -
[72]
Originally by: Valea Silpha
I wouldn't call it griefing, but i would say it needs some tightening up.
Everyone seems to like the 'risk/reward' arguament. The guys doing this risk basically nothing after the outlay of the POS and get plenty of reward. Thats a problem.
Theres no defence that anyone has against it either. Sure a group of people COULD pay mercs to get rid of him, but that doesn't stop him setting up shop someplace else, and doesn't destroy the wealth he's accumulated through doing it. Its not a solution.
And if everyone that he tries to gang or get to warp to the POS does not do it or goes there in a shuttle/noobship (like a poster showed a couple of days ago) then all that effort cost and fueling will be wasted.
This is Eve at it's purest.
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Bilgen
|
Posted - 2006.05.21 19:54:00 -
[73]
Its a shame that people cant trust others. In that way this game is like real life. However as a game mechanic the "bloody bat" would be a low sec. rating on a player. And since this avoids the security hit then the warning is not there as intended. Of course that would be up to the devs.
I do not gang with people in low security unless they are known to me or my corp. Its a lesson well learned.
Vice Admiral
Universal Agencies |
Josclyn Verreuil
|
Posted - 2006.05.21 20:14:00 -
[74]
Originally by: Valea Silpha
I wouldn't call it griefing, but i would say it needs some tightening up.
Everyone seems to like the 'risk/reward' arguament. The guys doing this risk basically nothing after the outlay of the POS and get plenty of reward. Thats a problem.
Theres no defence that anyone has against it either. Sure a group of people COULD pay mercs to get rid of him, but that doesn't stop him setting up shop someplace else, and doesn't destroy the wealth he's accumulated through doing it. Its not a solution.
Or get a few buddies together and blow up the PoS... they aren't cheap.
~Clan Verreuil |
Maximum69
|
Posted - 2006.05.21 20:24:00 -
[75]
Right this is an EXPLOIT, he has destroyed my ship without taking a sec loss and he has avoided kill rights. I do not believe the gang system was designed to be used as a weapon.
Sorry to those who wanted my stuff but I have said that I will give it all to my corp.
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Kurren
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Posted - 2006.05.21 20:29:00 -
[76]
Edited by: Kurren on 21/05/2006 20:32:52
Originally by: spurious signal
I've seen another warning about this last week but it seems to be becomming more common so I thought another warning might be in order.
A new trick that griefers are using is to set up a small POS somewhere then somehow get people to warp to it, either by generating a cyno field and going "come see pretty dreads!" or by asking for help in a mission or some other similar ruse. When the victim warps in to the POS area, not knowing there's a POS there, the POS promptly ganks them.
One such griefer in Otsasai yesterday was claiming 40+ kills, 20+ of which were Battleships.
Just a heads-up anyway, this is a lame tactic for the cowardly IMO, hopefully warnings will keep others from falling victim to it. Luckily I didn't trust the griefer who asked me for help in a mission so I didn't fall prey to it, but plenty of others are still getting ganked like this.
That's not called griefing. That's called stupid pilots falling for a trap. I'd do it to if I was him. "How can I turn away prey that has so easily stumbled into my hands?"
Here's an easy solution to the gang problem...
If you don't know him... don't gang him. DUUUUUHHH!!!!
--- --- --- ---
SobaKai.com
|
Kel Shek
|
Posted - 2006.05.21 21:08:00 -
[77]
Originally by: spurious signal
I've seen another warning about this last week but it seems to be becomming more common so I thought another warning might be in order.
A new trick that griefers are using is to set up a small POS somewhere then somehow get people to warp to it, either by generating a cyno field and going "come see pretty dreads!" or by asking for help in a mission or some other similar ruse. When the victim warps in to the POS area, not knowing there's a POS there, the POS promptly ganks them.
One such griefer in Otsasai yesterday was claiming 40+ kills, 20+ of which were Battleships.
Just a heads-up anyway, this is a lame tactic for the cowardly IMO, hopefully warnings will keep others from falling victim to it. Luckily I didn't trust the griefer who asked me for help in a mission so I didn't fall prey to it, but plenty of others are still getting ganked like this.
let me get this straight....
they are using a cyno field, spending money on fuel... as bait for people who would come to that field, and GREIF the generator, deliberately inhibiting the person who would normally be trying to use that cyno field... when they can't do anything about it... and these people get popped by PoS defenses.
or people asking for help... in low sec... and someone attempting to help, ... in low sec, jumps to a moon and is blown up.
I see no problem with this.
I also see no problem with faked mis-chats "accidentally" revealing their "safespot"/meeting point that happens to be at a moon... and pirates coming to that spot, trying to greif the people allegedly minding their own business, and get popped by PoS defenses.
are you serious? why the hell is this a problem at all?
~~~~~
To see a World in a Grain of Sand
And Heaven in a Wild Flower
Hold Infinity in the palm of your hand
And Eternity in an hour
~~William Blake |
Qolde
|
Posted - 2006.05.21 21:08:00 -
[78]
It's a totally fair tactic. It can only be used in low sec and 0.0. If you are smart enough to survive in lowsec, then you should be fine. Anytime you gang someone you don't know in lowsec, you are asking for trouble, plain and simple. Anytime you warp to a Cyno field that you did not employ, you are signing your own death certificate. Avoiding the sec hit is irrelevant. You forfeited the sec hit when you ganged with the guy. As before when people would invite you to gangs to just straight up shoot you down, we have a new tactic in play since they nerfed that. The players WILL find a way to play how they want, and the game balances itself. Basically, eve rule number one: Don't trust anyone. There are people who play this game who will invite you to a barbecue in real life to gain your trust, just to rob you blind in game. Just because your spirit of discernment is not aligned, does not mean that the game needs to be changed. Maybe you need to be changed.
[URL=http://www.glitteryourway.com][/URL] |
Aeina Caeraen
|
Posted - 2006.05.21 21:55:00 -
[79]
Edited by: Aeina Caeraen on 21/05/2006 21:58:56
Qolde, your sig is so going to get modded, and you closed your last tag twice...
Anyway, I turn on "auto reject invitations in empire" for precisely this kind of thing :P
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Lord Frost
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Posted - 2006.05.22 00:54:00 -
[80]
thats about as smart as someone saying "come to planet 1 moon 4 and look here"... you fly in, and they pop you... this isnt a grief, just a dumbarse actually listening to him.
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Lorth
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Posted - 2006.05.22 01:23:00 -
[81]
Originally by: Maximum69
Right this is an EXPLOIT, he has destroyed my ship without taking a sec loss and he has avoided kill rights. I do not believe the gang system was designed to be used as a weapon.
Sorry to those who wanted my stuff but I have said that I will give it all to my corp.
Aww muffin
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NickWest
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Posted - 2006.05.22 02:43:00 -
[82]
WHAT? It appears the cost of stupidity is still quite high in this quaint little world we call Eve.
Greifing is great, the fact that little cargo containers pop out of dead people is just icing.
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Sakura Nihil
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Posted - 2006.05.22 04:34:00 -
[83]
It's not griefing if you choose willingly to fly to it - if you're a one-day old and someone says "go to <location> and you'll get free isk", that's griefing imo.
damn sig hijack!!11!
Signature removed. Max filesize is 24,000 bytes. -Eldo ([email protected])
Forum warrior in training =P |
Avon
|
Posted - 2006.05.22 05:13:00 -
[84]
I still find it impossible to defend this.
Killing in Empire without consequence is wrong, period.
Either your POS should only fire on legitimate war targets, or there should be consequence to allowing it to fire upon neutrals, unless fired upon.
At least gate gankers accept the penalty of their actions. I have more respect for them than those who use a POS in this way.
The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur |
Lorth
|
Posted - 2006.05.22 05:25:00 -
[85]
Originally by: Avon
I still find it impossible to defend this.
Killing in Empire without consequence is wrong, period.
Either your POS should only fire on legitimate war targets, or there should be consequence to allowing it to fire upon neutrals, unless fired upon.
At least gate gankers accept the penalty of their actions. I have more respect for them than those who use a POS in this way.
True, but I think there's also the issue of me warping into your POS's for hours in shuttle just to lower your sec status. That is griefing, and would certainly happen if there were sec hit for your POS.
Kill right are about the best option IMO.
The tactic I support, the fact that it has no consequense I don't.
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Deja Thoris
|
Posted - 2006.05.22 05:30:00 -
[86]
Originally by: Lorth
Originally by: Avon
I still find it impossible to defend this.
Killing in Empire without consequence is wrong, period.
Either your POS should only fire on legitimate war targets, or there should be consequence to allowing it to fire upon neutrals, unless fired upon.
At least gate gankers accept the penalty of their actions. I have more respect for them than those who use a POS in this way.
True, but I think there's also the issue of me warping into your POS's for hours in shuttle just to lower your sec status. That is griefing, and would certainly happen if there were sec hit for your POS.
Kill right are about the best option IMO.
The tactic I support, the fact that it has no consequense I don't.
Quite simple, make the POS fire back
If you want to posgank all comers then make it give sec hits. (How exactly I'm not sure)
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Kurren
|
Posted - 2006.05.22 05:34:00 -
[87]
Originally by: NickWest
WHAT? It appears the cost of stupidity is still quite high in this quaint little world we call Eve.
Greifing is great, the fact that little cargo containers pop out of dead people is just icing.
[highjack] This from you? A meek little corp jumper? Talk of killing when you can stand and fight. [/highjack]
--- --- --- ---
SobaKai.com
|
Avon
|
Posted - 2006.05.22 05:37:00 -
[88]
Originally by: Lorth
True, but I think there's also the issue of me warping into your POS's for hours in shuttle just to lower your sec status. That is griefing, and would certainly happen if there were sec hit for your POS.
To be honest, that would be fine with me.
If people choose to set their POS to fire upon neutrals (and why would they?) then why shouldn't it get a sec hit? People 'exploiting' that sec hit would be no more griefing than the people who are abusing the fact their is no sec hit. At least it would encourage people to NOT set their empire POS to fire on neutrals who have not fired upon it.
The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur |
Avon
|
Posted - 2006.05.22 05:41:00 -
[89]
Originally by: Deja Thoris
Originally by: Lorth
Originally by: Avon
I still find it impossible to defend this.
Killing in Empire without consequence is wrong, period.
Either your POS should only fire on legitimate war targets, or there should be consequence to allowing it to fire upon neutrals, unless fired upon.
At least gate gankers accept the penalty of their actions. I have more respect for them than those who use a POS in this way.
True, but I think there's also the issue of me warping into your POS's for hours in shuttle just to lower your sec status. That is griefing, and would certainly happen if there were sec hit for your POS.
Kill right are about the best option IMO.
The tactic I support, the fact that it has no consequense I don't.
Quite simple, make the POS fire back
If you want to posgank all comers then make it give sec hits. (How exactly I'm not sure)
Give the POS sec hits.
Sec status modifies how many of those silly permit thingies you have to use to run your empire POS.
Makes sense.
The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur |
Crumplecorn
|
Posted - 2006.05.22 07:56:00 -
[90]
Not griefing.
STFU.
That is all.
----------
Sorry but that link contains nawty language. -wystler
"Discussing moderation is not allowed" - Ivan K
"Ranting is prohibited" - Teblin
|
Biltic Creen
|
Posted - 2006.05.22 09:09:00 -
[91]
Did anybody that suggested giving out killright even think about the possibilities that exist to exploit those ?
Scenario:
Friendly corp has a POS with guns for defense.
I want to greif that corp.
I warp with a shuttle to the POS, get killen, get killrights and kill them in empire.
Great suggestion !
______________________________
This post is not my personal opinion. It does represent the standpoint of every single eve-player. |
Copine Callmeknau
|
Posted - 2006.05.22 09:21:00 -
[92]
Err, how is it griefing? Looks like piracy to me
-------
With five million sheep in this army
I seem to be the only one fit to command
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TuRtLe HeAd
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Posted - 2006.05.22 10:27:00 -
[93]
stands to reason to look before leaping, warping to a Cynau when you don't know whats their is stupid anyway, If you fall for it you deserve to die.
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Joerd Toastius
|
Posted - 2006.05.22 10:31:00 -
[94]
Originally by: HippoKing
Originally by: FooB2
which one is that? the one where you knit bobble hats or the one where you eat crumpets and drink tea all day whilst knocking around balls with a big mallet?
i was thinking of the mallets. Knitting is crochet i think
I'd also like to point out that if somebody can't hack Eve, they really, really won't like Croquet. It looks civilised. It isn't.
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Balazs Simon
|
Posted - 2006.05.22 11:08:00 -
[95]
Edited by: Balazs Simon on 22/05/2006 11:08:29
Originally by: HippoKing
Originally by: babylonstew
Originally by: Maximum69
Edited by: Maximum69 on 21/05/2006 09:20:54
Surely it's an exploit!! He's using the game to destroy members without taking a sec lv loss.
Anyway I have put in a petition, if it comes out bad i'm leavin, I can't be bothered putting my time into a game for some C**T to ruin it with loopholes that CCP should know about.
can i have whatever stuff you have left?
allways wanted to be first to post that in a thread \o/
son of a *****. 2 minutes, while i was thinking up a follow-on to the croquet comment (never got one i was happy with )
Hippo got owened :) This mad my day..
back to work... 
.
-
POST WITH YOUR MAIN!
New sig coming soon...
This post is my personal opinion. It does not represent the standpoint of the DICE Corporation. |
Drizit
|
Posted - 2006.05.22 11:28:00 -
[96]
If you are leaving, may I suggest that you try this game instead.
Rule number 1. Don;t fly anything you can't afford to lose.
Rule number 2. If they are not a friend, always presume they are out to kill you.
--
|
Caerleus
|
Posted - 2006.05.22 11:52:00 -
[97]
Ok, so a POS is owned and run by a Corp? So how you going to attribute Sec Loss to an individual if someone gets ganked?
Secondly, why shouldnt the POS owner set his POS to NBSI?
They've made an investment in the POS, which, for the vast majority is earning them ISK.
Why should it then be allowed that swarms of moon scanning fleets can start to scan all the existing POS's to see if they are viable targets?
I used to own a few choice moons, that were protected with NBSI settings, and pretty much everyday, some idiot would try to fly to them.
Some were just shuttles, some were full on BS's and some were haulers full of scan probes.
Its not the game mechanics that are broke, its not griefing, its not an exploit, its pilots being stupid and ignoring the most fundamental safety and security policies..
|
Flyyn
|
Posted - 2006.05.22 12:05:00 -
[98]
I said it before, I will say it again.
A thread like this is more then likely cause someone to cancel downloading Eve-online. Half the responces are from the forum trolls...and the other half are calling for CCP to do somthing.
"Suxs to be you"
"Old news"
And my favorite
"That aint griefing, its being a pirate." Or somthing along those lines.
Setting your pos to shoot everyone is a smart move. And if sombody comes rolling up to it in full veiw, well yeah it is their fault.
Calling for help in local, inviting sombody to gang with you, and then warping to POS. Yes that is griefing. Not piracy, not some new cool trick to have fun with. But griefing.
You trolls ***** and moan about the PvEers in empire. Not wanting to join corps and alliances...well with people like you...I would'nt countinue to down load this game either.
These forums are the major draw to this game after WoW, EQ, EQII, planetside, and many others. You cant talk to the devs anywhere else. So newbies look, the watch, and decide "Why would I want to play this?"
Dont mind me I am just trying to catch up to DS and HK on the boards.... |
Avon
|
Posted - 2006.05.22 12:09:00 -
[99]
Originally by: Caerleus
Ok, so a POS is owned and run by a Corp? So how you going to attribute Sec Loss to an individual if someone gets ganked?
Secondly, why shouldnt the POS owner set his POS to NBSI?
They've made an investment in the POS, which, for the vast majority is earning them ISK.
Why should it then be allowed that swarms of moon scanning fleets can start to scan all the existing POS's to see if they are viable targets?
I used to own a few choice moons, that were protected with NBSI settings, and pretty much everyday, some idiot would try to fly to them.
Some were just shuttles, some were full on BS's and some were haulers full of scan probes.
Its not the game mechanics that are broke, its not griefing, its not an exploit, its pilots being stupid and ignoring the most fundamental safety and security policies..
You are saying that POS in empire should be set NBSI to prevent people scouting them out and seeing if they are viable targets?
Rubbish.
If you want to check out a POS you do it in a covert ops, or a pod.
There is no reason at all to allow POS in empire to fire on an NBSI basis (unless fired upon, of course)
The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur |
Caerleus
|
Posted - 2006.05.22 12:45:00 -
[100]
Edited by: Caerleus on 22/05/2006 12:46:26
Originally by: Avon
If you want to check out a POS you do it in a covert ops, or a pod.
There is no reason at all to allow POS in empire to fire on an NBSI basis (unless fired upon, of course)
Totally agree with you Avon in so far as , yes, you can scout out a POS's defenses, but you cant scan that moon.
Which means your not able to check to see what materials it produces to see if its a worthwhile exercise from that perspective.
Whilst this may be only a singular use for NBSI POS policy, it still doesnt explain why people leave their common sense in the station when flying around Low Sec.
It was drummed into me at an early age that when flying around low sec, you trust no-one other than your corp, you don't fly around to moons and you let curiosity kill the cat, not you.
Why should there be sympathy for those that blatently fly around, blissfully unaware of risk and instead of learning from an experience such as the OP'S, feel the need to compel the rest of the game to alter their playing patterns because they are simply too ignorant to fend for themselves.
To the OP.
If you want to do something constructive, warn others in local, post secure cans at gates and stations stating that such and such is a POS moon, and not to gang with whomever.
If the pirate then see's there income dry up, they'll soon take the POS down...
But wait, it means you might have to be proactive and actually take matters in to your own hands..Perish the thought eh...
|
Drizit
|
Posted - 2006.05.22 12:47:00 -
[101]
Originally by: Flyyn
I said it before, I will say it again.
A thread like this is more then likely cause someone to cancel downloading Eve-online. Half the responces are from the forum trolls...and the other half are calling for CCP to do somthing.
"Suxs to be you"
"Old news"
And my favorite
"That aint griefing, its being a pirate." Or somthing along those lines.
Setting your pos to shoot everyone is a smart move. And if sombody comes rolling up to it in full veiw, well yeah it is their fault.
Calling for help in local, inviting sombody to gang with you, and then warping to POS. Yes that is griefing. Not piracy, not some new cool trick to have fun with. But griefing.
You trolls ***** and moan about the PvEers in empire. Not wanting to join corps and alliances...well with people like you...I would'nt countinue to down load this game either.
These forums are the major draw to this game after WoW, EQ, EQII, planetside, and many others. You cant talk to the devs anywhere else. So newbies look, the watch, and decide "Why would I want to play this?"
The difference is that I have seen two seperate posts about POS firing on people in empire. One just asked what happened because they didn't even realise a pos could be set to agressive mode in Empire. The other is here where the player whined that it was griefing tactics.
The first post was here and I applaud him for wanting to get revenge by hiring mercs to go and get back at them for it. Take out their pos and make them pay for those kind of tactics. OK, it's costing you to hire them but less people will play that trick in future if they lose their pos for the sake of a few lame kills.
With the scams, thefts and other tactics used in this game, if they are not friends, they are most likely enemies. Crying 'grief' and whining on the boards is not going to solve it.
--
|
Uggster
|
Posted - 2006.05.22 12:54:00 -
[102]
Originally by: Avon
Originally by: Deja Thoris
Originally by: Lorth
Originally by: Avon
I still find it impossible to defend this.
Killing in Empire without consequence is wrong, period.
Either your POS should only fire on legitimate war targets, or there should be consequence to allowing it to fire upon neutrals, unless fired upon.
At least gate gankers accept the penalty of their actions. I have more respect for them than those who use a POS in this way.
True, but I think there's also the issue of me warping into your POS's for hours in shuttle just to lower your sec status. That is griefing, and would certainly happen if there were sec hit for your POS.
Kill right are about the best option IMO.
The tactic I support, the fact that it has no consequense I don't.
Quite simple, make the POS fire back
If you want to posgank all comers then make it give sec hits. (How exactly I'm not sure)
Give the POS sec hits.
Sec status modifies how many of those silly permit thingies you have to use to run your empire POS.
Makes sense.
The exact number is 0 certs needed for lowsec empire POS's right now.
What you are suggesting would mean that a legitamate mining/base POS could be grifed time and again by noobships or shuttles to make it actually cost the player to run his POS there. ( As mentioned by Mr. L)
It's all academic anyway, people dont get actually hurt in computer games (unless they have an electrodes on testicals added extra) so they do silly things.
People would never follow the sound of a building collapsing in a city or country that is known for it's terrorists or in open warfare unless thats their job.
If you follow a stranger (in gang) or go to look at the cyno field and die its cos your being stupid - end of story.
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Testy Mctest
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Posted - 2006.05.22 13:09:00 -
[103]
Originally by: Sensor Error
Griefing, by definition is causing other players duress without personal gain, and purely to cause them suffering.
The majority of PvP in Eve results in very little personal gain. PvP in eve is harsh, ruthless, unforgiving. From the point of view of people I kill, I could be a griefer. From my point of view, I dont do it to cause suffering, I just enjoy a good fight. Griefing to me is people who dock/safespot and/or log and don't try to fight back. They cause me suffering and gain nothing from logging off.
There are forms of griefing in Eve, and no doubt this is one of them, but I don't think exploiting people's stupidity should be a bannable offence :)
Testy's Eve Blog - Updated 22/05/06! |
Obobah'k Shisaraj
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Posted - 2006.05.22 14:37:00 -
[104]
Anyone got any ideas what a sec hit implmenetation would look like?
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Vincent Gaines
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Posted - 2006.05.22 14:55:00 -
[105]
if someone is dumb enough to watch a dread come in that's not in the same alliance/corp they deserve to get shot
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Vikram Bedi
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Posted - 2006.05.22 16:41:00 -
[106]
Originally by: Prestis
Sec hits and killrights for POS kills?
Sure, I'll just get a fleet of shuttles a fly into every POS I can find. Then you'd have some actual griefing!
Agreed, but there really should be *something*.
Let's bottom line it, whether it's you in your ship or your station acting on your orders, YOU are causing the destruction of a non-aggressive ship without legal sanction. If you're going to put up a big killing machine in the middle of nowhere and not warn anybody, there should be a penalty when it does the expected. At the very least it should involve an equal sec status penalty to what you'd get for attacking the person yourself.
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G Dabak
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Posted - 2006.05.22 16:45:00 -
[107]
It's like calling someone a griefer because he kills people in Quake 3. I know, I know, EVE has more depth and cooperation etc etc. But you have to be real careful with your trust and assume everyone is your enemy. If someone hasn't learned that before going into lowsec, getting tricked into being shot by a POS is a good introduction.
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Kurren
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Posted - 2006.05.22 16:54:00 -
[108]
Edited by: Kurren on 22/05/2006 17:05:29
Originally by: Flyyn
Calling for help in local, inviting sombody to gang with you, and then warping to POS. Yes that is griefing. Not piracy, not some new cool trick to have fun with. But griefing.
It ain't new. It's one of the oldest pirate tricks in the book! Trying to make CCP fix things is not going to bring about somebody's common sense. It's only going to nerf POSes. Why, you ask? Because you can't make somebody "un-stupid." If you don't know a person, tough for them. If they die... ask where... and go take there stuff. Don't be so nieve as to walk right into a death trap and then expect sympothy from those that set it. Common sense is the greatest weapon you will ever use, but most people never even equip it.
Originally by: Vikram Bedi
Originally by: Prestis
Sec hits and killrights for POS kills?
Sure, I'll just get a fleet of shuttles a fly into every POS I can find. Then you'd have some actual griefing!
Agreed, but there really should be *something*.
Let's bottom line it, whether it's you in your ship or your station acting on your orders, YOU are causing the destruction of a non-aggressive ship without legal sanction. If you're going to put up a big killing machine in the middle of nowhere and not warn anybody, there should be a penalty when it does the expected. At the very least it should involve an equal sec status penalty to what you'd get for attacking the person yourself.
As for this crap...
Why should anybody have to warn you about their PoS? All a warning does is put up a location of your PoS for those that feel like attacking it. No sec hit should be involved. It's a PoS. I would, howevere, agree to the sec hit if the podded player's avatar had to wear a Dunce Cap for the next week. By golly, them big ol' thangies flaotin by that there moon done shot at me! By joe, that there person in low-sec that is a complete stranger to me and to everyone I have a friendly knowlegde of has just plum tricked me!
/runs to forums
/whines
/wonders why nobody cares that they're quitting Eve
My corp has paid several hundered million ISK to own and operate a PoS. Why should I have to be "suttle" with who I make it shoot? Alts all have neutral sec status. Pirates don't. Anybody that floats by gets shot. I'm protecting my investment. Screw your ship. Go buy another and don't fly it anywhere near my PoS next time!
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SobaKai.com
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spurious signal
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Posted - 2006.05.22 17:06:00 -
[109]
Originally by: Drizit
The difference is that I have seen two seperate posts about POS firing on people in empire. One just asked what happened because they didn't even realise a pos could be set to agressive mode in Empire. The other is here where the player whined that it was griefing tactics.
Hey, try reading my post before ascribing things to me. I didn't whine, I posted it as a warning to inform others who may not be aware that they can be ganked like this with no risk and no consequence to the ganker.
I don't like the fact that people can do this with the sole reason of piracy and with no comeback, no risk, nothing. There's a difference between 0.0 and low-sec space and that difference is law. You commit piracy in low-sec and you take a security hit. The POS in question was constructed for the sole purpose of piracy. I fully support the rights of POS owners to defend their property but I don't like this particular use of them.
But I didn't come here whining and demanding changes or nerfs from the devs. Instead I posted a warning to (hopefully) make this particular tactic harder for those who do it. I'm not a rich player, I'm not in a huge alliance, I can't personally do anything about people who do this. I can't afford mercs, I can't fly dreads. So instead of just shrugging my shoulders and deciding to ignore it I fight back in the only way that I currently can - by trying to warn others who may not be aware of this kind of trick.
I think Flynn's post was spot on, the kind of responses from some people on this board are what will stop EVE from reaching the far larger market that it deserves to.
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spurious signal
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Posted - 2006.05.22 17:10:00 -
[110]
Oh, and as for all the stupid arguments about whether it's griefing or not - who cares? Call it what you like, call it piracy, call it griefing, I don't give a monkeys.
But I know damn well that the unsuspecting victims of this who lost battleships, HACs, etc would most certainly have been grateful for a warning before they made the mistake of *shock horror* offering to help someone.
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Kurren
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Posted - 2006.05.22 17:14:00 -
[111]
Originally by: spurious signal
Originally by: Drizit
The difference is that I have seen two seperate posts about POS firing on people in empire. One just asked what happened because they didn't even realise a pos could be set to agressive mode in Empire. The other is here where the player whined that it was griefing tactics.
Hey, try reading my post before ascribing things to me. I didn't whine, I posted it as a warning to inform others who may not be aware that they can be ganked like this with no risk and no consequence to the ganker.
I don't like the fact that people can do this with the sole reason of piracy and with no comeback, no risk, nothing. There's a difference between 0.0 and low-sec space and that difference is law. You commit piracy in low-sec and you take a security hit. The POS in question was constructed for the sole purpose of piracy. I fully support the rights of POS owners to defend their property but I don't like this particular use of them.
But I didn't come here whining and demanding changes or nerfs from the devs. Instead I posted a warning to (hopefully) make this particular tactic harder for those who do it. I'm not a rich player, I'm not in a huge alliance, I can't personally do anything about people who do this. I can't afford mercs, I can't fly dreads. So instead of just shrugging my shoulders and deciding to ignore it I fight back in the only way that I currently can - by trying to warn others who may not be aware of this kind of trick.
I think Flynn's post was spot on, the kind of responses from some people on this board are what will stop EVE from reaching the far larger market that it deserves to.
Well, if you can get away with a crime then no sec hit... just like in today's society. And, you did call it griefing... several times. You've blamed the dog for eating to food you left on the floor... and then you've proceeded to call the dog names simply because you were on the receiving end of the BadManStick.
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SobaKai.com
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Avon
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Posted - 2006.05.22 17:20:00 -
[112]
Originally by: Kurren
Well, if you can get away with a crime then no sec hit... just like in today's society.
In which case, why would I personally take a sec hit if I shot a player at a moon in low-sec space?
Are you saying that I shouldn't, or that the situation is somehow different?
The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur |
spurious signal
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Posted - 2006.05.22 17:20:00 -
[113]
Originally by: Kurren
Well, if you can get away with a crime then no sec hit... just like in today's society. And, you did call it griefing... several times. You've blamed the dog for eating to food you left on the floor... and then you've proceeded to call the dog names simply because you were on the receiving end of the BadManStick.
Yeah, I believe it's griefing. That's my opinion. From this (and many other) thread I am well aware that lots of people ahve different ideas from each other about what exactly griefing is. As I said in the post just under the one you quoted I don't actually care if it's called griefing or not, that wasn't the point of my post.
The point was as a warning to those who don't know about this tactic. Given that this thread has now, thanks to the arguments about whether or not it's griefing, reached 4 pages and been up here on the first page of General for a couple of days I'm fairly happy that my warning may have reached a decent number of people and therefore consider my original intent acheived
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Vikram Bedi
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Posted - 2006.05.22 17:23:00 -
[114]
Originally by: Kurren
Edited by: Kurren on 22/05/2006 17:05:29
Originally by: Vikram Bedi
Originally by: Prestis
Sec hits and killrights for POS kills?
Sure, I'll just get a fleet of shuttles a fly into every POS I can find. Then you'd have some actual griefing!
Agreed, but there really should be *something*.
Let's bottom line it, whether it's you in your ship or your station acting on your orders, YOU are causing the destruction of a non-aggressive ship without legal sanction. If you're going to put up a big killing machine in the middle of nowhere and not warn anybody, there should be a penalty when it does the expected. At the very least it should involve an equal sec status penalty to what you'd get for attacking the person yourself.
As for this crap...
Why should anybody have to warn you about their PoS? All a warning does is put up a location of your PoS for those that feel like attacking it. No sec hit should be involved. It's a PoS. I would, howevere, agree to the sec hit if the podded player's avatar had to wear a Dunce Cap for the next week. By golly, them big ol' thangies flaotin by that there moon done shot at me! By joe, that there person in low-sec that is a complete stranger to me and to everyone I have a friendly knowlegde of has just plum tricked me!
/runs to forums
/whines
/wonders why nobody cares that they're quitting Eve
My corp has paid several hundered million ISK to own and operate a PoS. Why should I have to be "suttle" with who I make it shoot? Alts all have neutral sec status. Pirates don't. Anybody that floats by gets shot. I'm protecting my investment. Screw your ship. Go buy another and don't fly it anywhere near my PoS next time!
I'm really not sure if I should consider this a legitimate post of just troll bait, but I'll play along.
Basicaly, it's for the same reason that you can't just go around blowing up random peoples ships in belts without a penalty. If you want to destroy ships without a sec status hit, go play in non-empire 0.0. If you're in empire space, there should be a consequence for your actions.
Sure, put a NBSI policy on your station is protecting your investment. Shooting at the guy who's approaching me in a belt is a protection of *my* investment too. But in empire space you're not supposed to initiate aggression, and if you do, you get a slap on the wrist for it. Same should apply if your station initiates aggression.
:whine: but I paid alot of *money* for my station:/whine:
Sorry, I don't buy it. If you want the relative safety and comforts of empire space, you should have to play by empire space rules. That stations don't follow the same rules that everyone else does is a flaw in the game mechanics. You should have to make the choice, either live with a low sec status, because your station keeps on blowing up innocent people, or keep an close eye on it because it's not going to auto-gank anybody who strays too close.
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Kurren
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Posted - 2006.05.22 17:55:00 -
[115]
Edited by: Kurren on 22/05/2006 17:58:41
Originally by: Vikram Bedi
I'm really not sure if I should consider this a legitimate post of just troll bait, but I'll play along.
Basicaly, it's for the same reason that you can't just go around blowing up random peoples ships in belts without a penalty. If you want to destroy ships without a sec status hit, go play in non-empire 0.0. If you're in empire space, there should be a consequence for your actions.
Sure, put a NBSI policy on your station is protecting your investment. Shooting at the guy who's approaching me in a belt is a protection of *my* investment too. But in empire space you're not supposed to initiate aggression, and if you do, you get a slap on the wrist for it. Same should apply if your station initiates aggression.
:whine: but I paid alot of *money* for my station:/whine:
Sorry, I don't buy it. If you want the relative safety and comforts of empire space, you should have to play by empire space rules. That stations don't follow the same rules that everyone else does is a flaw in the game mechanics. You should have to make the choice, either live with a low sec status, because your station keeps on blowing up innocent people, or keep an close eye on it because it's not going to auto-gank anybody who strays too close.
From what I understand... you only want the sec hit because you've been killed by somebody else's PoS. That's your fault. Not theirs. Whether or not they've baited you, it's your fault. Sec hits for PoSes killing your ships is a terrible idea simply because... what if you're not baited? What if you just feel like exploiting this and bringing a shutte to the PoS only to get killed... warp out... do it again... rinse repeat to get the desired results. Again... no corp (pirate or not, ganker, griefer, miner, merc, etc...) should be punished because the "victom" pilot didn't excercise caution and common sense.
Rule number 1 in the pirate handbook...
- If you can kill them at no cost to yourself... do it. There's nothing better than somebody else's hard earned loot just handed to ya.
And for the record, I realize my posts have anger in them. They always do when I have to point out people's "ignorances." You can call them names (flamebait, trollbait, etc.),but that doesn't deminish the point. People are stupid... or... more correctly... there are stupid people. Nobody should be punished, penalized, or what-have-you simply because those said people didn't do what us smart people do, and refer to as, "use common sense."
It's called a learning experience. Anybody that's played Eve longer than 15 minutes will tell you to be careful in low-sec. Next time he will be. Now he knows that in Eve there are just people you can't trust, period... and it's usually not worth figuring out who they are amongst the grey area.
edit - and you don't have to "buy it." Though, I suggest you do. Pay all that money, and invest all that time into a PoS and see if you want some shmuck screwing with it. It'll be an etirely different story once you've got that much at risk.
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SobaKai.com
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Avon
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Posted - 2006.05.22 18:04:00 -
[116]
Originally by: Kurren
What if you just feel like exploiting this and bringing a shutte to the PoS only to get killed... warp out... do it again... rinse repeat to get the desired results. Again... no corp (pirate or not, ganker, griefer, miner, merc, etc...) should be punished because the "victom" pilot didn't excercise caution and common sense.
They would only be punished if they choose to set their POS to fire on neutrals who had not fired first - EXACTLY the same way as the rules apply to individuals.
The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur |
Kahor
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Posted - 2006.05.22 18:08:00 -
[117]
Edited by: Kahor on 22/05/2006 18:13:38
Why would they get a sec hit ? Did they kill you ? Sounds more like a suicide to me (or killed by your own stupidity if you want) he took no offensiv action towards you, nobody forced you to warp to that cyno field generator (without scanning), nobody forced you to accept his gang invite and to follow him into warp...The only one in cause here is you.
Although I reckon their tricks are somewhat well thought.
The game could use a way to invite people to your current mission, listing the mission, and giving both member right to warp to its location. Other than that, all is right.
Edit : I am talking to the whiners, not the OP.
An eye for an eye make a whole world blind.
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Caerleus
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Posted - 2006.05.22 18:14:00 -
[118]
Originally by: Vikram Bedi
If you want the relative safety and comforts of empire space, you should have to play by empire space rules. That stations don't follow the same rules that everyone else does is a flaw in the game mechanics. You should have to make the choice, either live with a low sec status, because your station keeps on blowing up innocent people, or keep an close eye on it because it's not going to auto-gank anybody who strays too close.
This is low sec we are talking about...
Relative safety is exactly that..relative to your viewpoint.
A POS set to NBSI is perfectly safe. It in itself doesnt doesnt make people warp to it.
It doesnt know who is innocent...and it doesnt care.
Neither do people who set them up..Its protection of assets..
A POS can still be attacked by dreads and a BS fleet, even in 0.4, so its just as much at risk of destruction in low sec as it is in 0.0...
So relatively speaking, the POS is sited in neither safely or comfort.
You have to remember that this is not essentially a POS issue..its a social engineering issue.
Someone is tricking the individual into doing something for their gain...
Ok..so we implement a new way of adding sec hits to a POS's owners rating...
Its about as easily circumvented as creatig an alt with Anchoring level 2..
Or how about flying around in a Cov Ops and getting people to jump to someone else's NBSI POS?
Who gets the sec hit then?
The answer is simple.
Dont blame a POS owner, shoulder the blame on the pilot who has thrown all caution to the wind and decided to do something against all common wisdom.
And just so people are in no doubt..
Don't join gangs in low sec with people you dont know, regardless of their sec rating.
Don't start jumping around to moons to look at pretty POS's that youve seen on scanners.
Don't warp to a cyno field because you've not seen one before and want to see what all the fuss is about.
If you fail to heed the above, blame yourself, because its only you that hit that warp button or agreed to join that gang.
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Vikram Bedi
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Posted - 2006.05.22 18:41:00 -
[119]
Originally by: Kurren
Edited by: Kurren on 22/05/2006 17:58:41
From what I understand... you only want the sec hit because you've been killed by somebody else's PoS.
Nope, never been killed by a station. I don't accept gang invites from unknowns or noobs, and don't warp to moons.
Quote:
That's your fault. Not theirs. Whether or not they've baited you, it's your fault. Sec hits for PoSes killing your ships is a terrible idea simply because... what if you're not baited? What if you just feel like exploiting this and bringing a shutte to the PoS only to get killed... warp out... do it again... rinse repeat to get the desired results. Again... no corp (pirate or not, ganker, griefer, miner, merc, etc...) should be punished because the "victom" pilot didn't excercise caution and common sense.
I agree with you about the fault, if someone fails to excercise common sense ingame, the demise is always their fault. Whether they were baited into a station, or got jumped mining without an escort. But just because a person was mining under the influence of stupidity doesn't mean that the pirate shouldn't take a sec hit for attacking them.
And yes, there is a potential for people to use your hostile station to lower your sec status. In my opinion that's the tradeoff you should have to manage. If you want to put an overtly hostile installation in empire space, you should be prepared for the consequences of destroying dozens of non-aggressive ships. Whether they were caution or not is of no matter, you didn't have kill-rights or an aggression timer on them, but you destroyed their ship anyway.
Quote:
Rule number 1 in the pirate handbook...
- If you can kill them at no cost to yourself... do it. There's nothing better than somebody else's hard earned loot just handed to ya.
Sure, i dont' blame you for setting up a station to gank people, I blame CCP for setting up a system that encourages it. Their system is flawed, not your actions.
Quote:
And for the record, I realize my posts have anger in them. They always do when I have to point out people's "ignorances." You can call them names (flamebait, trollbait, etc.),but that doesn't deminish the point. People are stupid... or... more correctly... there are stupid people. Nobody should be punished, penalized, or what-have-you simply because those said people didn't do what us smart people do, and refer to as, "use common sense."
It's called a learning experience. Anybody that's played Eve longer than 15 minutes will tell you to be careful in low-sec. Next time he will be. Now he knows that in Eve there are just people you can't trust, period... and it's usually not worth figuring out who they are amongst the grey area.
But again, the issue isn't one of lowsec vs. highsec. if you destroy a persons ship in lowsec, you get a sec status penalty. All I'm saying is that the rules that apply to the player, should apply to the station too.
Quote:
edit - and you don't have to "buy it." Though, I suggest you do. Pay all that money, and invest all that time into a PoS and see if you want some shmuck screwing with it. It'll be an etirely different story once you've got that much at risk.
sorry, all I hear is :whine:
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Vikram Bedi
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Posted - 2006.05.22 18:52:00 -
[120]
Originally by: Caerleus
You have to remember that this is not essentially a POS issue..its a social engineering issue.
no, it's a POS issue. The POS should be held to the same game mechanics that the players are. If it attacks someone, there should be a penalty of some sort for the controlling entity.
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Joerd Toastius
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Posted - 2006.05.22 19:27:00 -
[121]
I'd like to propose a simple and complete solution for this "problem":
DON'T WARP TO MOONS
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Dhin Xar
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Posted - 2006.05.22 19:45:00 -
[122]
Should a PoS not be considered in control of the area immediately around it? I would think it would have the right to shoot anyone poking around. |
Pang Grohl
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Posted - 2006.05.22 19:53:00 -
[123]
FYI for potential victims reading this:
The only chance for getting this changed is call "exploit" for avoiding the loss of Sec Status, and hope that CCP agrees. The only way to get this going is to file a petition.
This signature is a tribute to the greatest signature of all time.
It's not the greatest signature ever, it's just a... Tribute!! |
Trak Cranker
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Posted - 2006.05.22 20:24:00 -
[124]
Owners of POSes have been granted the right to set their POSes to fire at anyone - by Concord. That is a given. Otherwise Concord would slap a sec hit on you. Stands to reason.
And as such it is not unauthorized or unlawful. They have a standing war dec on everything in their perimiter, they can exact as they see fit.
The position and existance of a POS is there for all to find out, rather quickly.
And if you can't see the difference between who causes the kill, and compare directly to a pirate attack - then you have a serious problem. Granted there are similarities. But its far from the same.
Then we can of coourse argue whether CONCORD _should_ accept it.
I reckon they should. It is an investment - and not a small one - in both isk and time, to put a POS up in low sec. That it comes with the ultimate right to defend its perimiter as you see fit, is a small cost to the community.
It does not pose a direct threat to anyone, any more than a moat around a castle does.
Please resize your signature so that it is within the forum rule size limits - Jacques |
Vikram Bedi
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Posted - 2006.05.22 20:34:00 -
[125]
Originally by: Trak Cranker
Then we can of coourse argue whether CONCORD _should_ accept it.
This is exactly what I was arguing.
Quote:
I reckon they should. It is an investment - and not a small one - in both isk and time, to put a POS up in low sec. That it comes with the ultimate right to defend its perimiter as you see fit, is a small cost to the community.
A Carrier is a larger investment, and yet doesn't have the automatic right to destroy anything that comes within sight of it. Sorry, the "it cost me money" line just doesn't fly. If you want to use that argument, then every ship in space should have a kill zone around it corresponding to how much it cost.
In any case, the perimeter of the station is *already* passively defended by a sizeable sheild.
Quote:
It does not pose a direct threat to anyone, any more than a moat around a castle does.
a moat serves as a direct physical barrier. If the guns only shot people who entered the sheild area without authorization, or took some volitous act to infringe upon the sanctity of the station, I'd agree that you were wandering dangerously close to having a point. But no, the station shoots at anything that comes nearby. That's not a moat, that's archers manning the buttresses with orders to shoot at pedestrians.
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HippoKing
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Posted - 2006.05.22 20:38:00 -
[126]
Originally by: Obobah'k Shisaraj
Anyone got any ideas what a sec hit implmenetation would look like?
Yes
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prsr
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Posted - 2006.05.22 20:59:00 -
[127]
Originally by: Vikram Bedi
a moat serves as a direct physical barrier. If the guns only shot people who entered the sheild area without authorization, or took some volitous act to infringe upon the sanctity of the station, I'd agree that you were wandering dangerously close to having a point. But no, the station shoots at anything that comes nearby. That's not a moat, that's archers manning the buttresses with orders to shoot at pedestrians.
Not sure if the castle analogy will hold up, but here goes.
Like a castle isn't the only thing owned by its resident, a starbase isn't the only thing owned by the people who built it either. The moon is for all intents and purposes the property of the owners of the starbase.
There's nothing strange with the owner of a celestial object having sole discretion over who gets to orbit it.
Anytime you warp to a moon you are at risk of trespassing on a sovereign piece of space, justice will be swift.
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HippoKing
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Posted - 2006.05.22 21:01:00 -
[128]
Rather than having it go the other way, I'd rather see a low sec POS and the area around it (500km, one grid) and its moon become the territory of the POS owning corp, and anyone there become a viable target for that corp while they are trespassing.
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Caerleus
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Posted - 2006.05.22 21:25:00 -
[129]
Edited by: Caerleus on 22/05/2006 21:25:51
Usinga POS as a weapon is exactly the same as a KOS pirate hanging around a gate in low sec waiting for someone to take a pot shot at him, knowing that they are then agressed and can't jump and that the sentry guns will not aid in the KOS pirates destruction.
Its simple understanding of game mechanics and using them to your advantage.
Rather than try to adjust game mechanics to fit peoples indivdual needs to go snoop around and feel free and unthreatened in space, is it not better that these people should actually try to learn and accept what is and has been in place since POS's were brought out.
And as for those that say that money has got nothing to do with it..you see how well you like seeing a 500million investment floating in space generating a 2billion turnover per month, being open to all those that want to come and take a fancy at it and start scanning the moon to see if its a viable proposition to destroy and claim the moon for themselves.
Think of a POS as the nastiest NPC there is, that just happens to be controlled by a corporation.
|
Vikram Bedi
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Posted - 2006.05.22 21:28:00 -
[130]
Originally by: HippoKing
Rather than having it go the other way, I'd rather see a low sec POS and the area around it (500km, one grid) and its moon become the territory of the POS owning corp, and anyone there become a viable target for that corp while they are trespassing.
If done that way, would there be a way of telling who's territory a grid was?
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HippoKing
|
Posted - 2006.05.22 21:35:00 -
[131]
Originally by: Vikram Bedi
Originally by: HippoKing
Rather than having it go the other way, I'd rather see a low sec POS and the area around it (500km, one grid) and its moon become the territory of the POS owning corp, and anyone there become a viable target for that corp while they are trespassing.
If done that way, would there be a way of telling who's territory a grid was?
Yeah, by looking at the POS. If you warp to a moon either without scanning, or when you know there is a POS there, it would be open season, like now.
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Gen Star
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Posted - 2006.05.22 21:43:00 -
[132]
Originally by: spurious signal
One such griefer in Otsasai yesterday was claiming 40+ kills, 20+ of which were Battleships.
quote]
Thanks for the  
I remember when the game first come out people were always sending gang invites trying to get people to accept. hehe, good times |
Vikram Bedi
|
Posted - 2006.05.22 21:55:00 -
[133]
Originally by: HippoKing
Originally by: Vikram Bedi
Originally by: HippoKing
Rather than having it go the other way, I'd rather see a low sec POS and the area around it (500km, one grid) and its moon become the territory of the POS owning corp, and anyone there become a viable target for that corp while they are trespassing.
If done that way, would there be a way of telling who's territory a grid was?
Yeah, by looking at the POS. If you warp to a moon either without scanning, or when you know there is a POS there, it would be open season, like now.
So, out of curiousity, what's your reasoning?
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HippoKing
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Posted - 2006.05.22 21:58:00 -
[134]
Originally by: Vikram Bedi
Originally by: HippoKing
Originally by: Vikram Bedi
Originally by: HippoKing
Rather than having it go the other way, I'd rather see a low sec POS and the area around it (500km, one grid) and its moon become the territory of the POS owning corp, and anyone there become a viable target for that corp while they are trespassing.
If done that way, would there be a way of telling who's territory a grid was?
Yeah, by looking at the POS. If you warp to a moon either without scanning, or when you know there is a POS there, it would be open season, like now.
So, out of curiousity, what's your reasoning?
Your POS is your property, it should be available for you to do with as you please in low sec. You effectively own the area it is in, and all people enter that area at their own risk. This solves the sec-hit problem (by categorically making kills at a POS by the owning corp/alliance legal) and doesn't remove any of the risk or thought required in low sec. As always, anything that stops players having to think for themselves (POSes not being able to NBSI) is a bad thing for eve in my opinion.
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Vikram Bedi
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Posted - 2006.05.22 22:13:00 -
[135]
Originally by: HippoKing
Your POS is your property, it should be available for you to do with as you please in low sec. You effectively own the area it is in, and all people enter that area at their own risk. This solves the sec-hit problem (by categorically making kills at a POS by the owning corp/alliance legal) and doesn't remove any of the risk or thought required in low sec. As always, anything that stops players having to think for themselves (POSes not being able to NBSI) is a bad thing for eve in my opinion.
I agree with you entirely about that, I was just thinking about it from the other side of the equation. It seemed to me that allowing a POS free shots at anything within range let's a POS owner out of having to make the realy hard choice, that being how aggressively do you defend your investment in light of the potential penalties for doing so.
I certainly wouldn't suggest taking the option away, I just don't see why it should be a consequence free decision.
Thinking about it though, my suggestion (making the sec status hit the same as if you attacked someone outright) would likely doom anyone having a NBSI POS to an automatic sec status of -10.
I don't know, maybe diluting the status hit among the entire corp would provide some balance to it, without making it an automatically unused POS setting.
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Trak Cranker
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Posted - 2006.05.22 22:52:00 -
[136]
Originally by: Vikram Bedi
Quote:
I reckon they should. It is an investment - and not a small one - in both isk and time, to put a POS up in low sec. That it comes with the ultimate right to defend its perimiter as you see fit, is a small cost to the community.
A Carrier is a larger investment, and yet doesn't have the automatic right to destroy anything that comes within sight of it. Sorry, the "it cost me money" line just doesn't fly. If you want to use that argument, then every ship in space should have a kill zone around it corresponding to how much it cost.
In any case, the perimeter of the station is *already* passively defended by a sizeable sheild.
A carrier can be taken out of the game when you log off. A POS cannot. You cannot move it around at will.
Its there when you are not. Thats a major difference, that I simply cannot understand you could overlook when piecing together that argument.
Not saying that point closes the argument. But its a hell of a big and important difference. So yes it _does_ fly.
It is in a place where noone will defend it if attacked. So that you are given the _right_ to treat anyone approaching as spies, enemies and given the ability to prevent meticoulus and undisturbed setups of enemies as you choose, is hardly overpowered, unfair, bad gamedesign or out of sync with the game world in it self.
You don't _choose_ to shoot anyone as a POS owner.
_They_ choose to warp to your guns, knowing(in respect to the law you cannot claim lack of knowledge) that there are potentially guns there that have the right to shoot at you.
Please resize your signature so that it is within the forum rule size limits - Jacques |
Kurren
|
Posted - 2006.05.22 23:07:00 -
[137]
Originally by: Vikram Bedi
It seemed to me that allowing a POS free shots at anything within range let's a POS owner out of having to make the realy hard choice, that being how aggressively do you defend your investment in light of the potential penalties for doing so.
The answer to that is "at all costs." If you can't afford to defend the PoS and keep it running... you take it down, but until you take it down... if you decide that anybody not in your corp gets WTFBLSTED it is completely sanctioned by CONCORD... that makes it legal.
Originally by: Vikram Bedi
I certainly wouldn't suggest taking the option away, I just don't see why it should be a consequence free decision.
Thinking about it though, my suggestion (making the sec status hit the same as if you attacked someone outright) would likely doom anyone having a NBSI POS to an automatic sec status of -10.
I don't know, maybe diluting the status hit among the entire corp would provide some balance to it, without making it an automatically unused POS setting.
With any kind of penalty you would effectively place every corp that owns a PoS into outlaw standing... no matter how deminished the penalty was. I know I'd have a blast parking shuttles and noob ships and ejecting just to see corps get a sec hit of any kind. Esspecially if I was at war with them because I could very effectively limit the places my opposing corp can travel. The lower the sec status... the easier it is to find them. Its too exploitable.
Wow... all this discussion because some guy foolishly walked into a trap...
--- --- --- ---
SobaKai.com
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Demos Altayr
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Posted - 2006.05.22 23:33:00 -
[138]
Wow my own thread =)
Hi Mom 
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Joerd Toastius
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Posted - 2006.05.22 23:43:00 -
[139]
Meh. Consistency would suggest that POS shouldn't be allowed to attack unless aggroed in low-sec (or should be penalised for it, but that seems to be spurious functionality). Yes, it removes a way stupid people can kill themselves, but that's what Empire and, to a lesser extent, low-sec is about. However, I honestly don't see it as a big deal either way. I wouldn't object to a "no NBSI POS in 0.1-0.4" policy - it seems sensible - but I don't see any reason to support such a change because... I just don't think it's that important. As it stands, going to moons in low-sec can get you killed. Why would you go to a moon in low-sec without scanning first? No obvious reason.
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Easy Button
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Posted - 2006.05.23 04:26:00 -
[140]
Edited by: Easy Button on 23/05/2006 04:27:31
Final statement about this. I was one of the people that got ganked. This Demos Altyr guy asked me for help in local to kill a BS with a nasty tank. The Vengeance lvl 4 mission has one of those. I flew in, lost my Ferox. His alt fiber0pt1c or something like that was there also.
You know what I did? Get a group and gank him, and his pod. It isn't griefing, it is just pirating. I was dumb enough to fly in and get ganked, but I went back for him and his pod, don't believe me, evemail for the killmail and podkill mail. I can't post it because of some forum rules that i did't read (this is my like 3rd post ever, he was talking trash "Go post on my griefing thread.) I had help, 3 other people, he lost a Tempest full of T2 stuff. Earlier that day he tried to gank someone and they ended up blowing up his T2 modded Taranis.
This was my first kill and first pod, I'm still jumpy. Yeah he has "Pink Sugar Heart Attack" on his killmail, that must sting. He has killrights on me, Otsasai is a .3
We'll see how this goes.
Pink Sugar Heart Attack "Go Pink, Don't Stink." |
Ju'Ju
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Posted - 2006.05.23 04:34:00 -
[141]
Griefing?
Exploit?
I suppose if a car load of strangers were to pull up in front of your house and ask you to get in and "gang up with them" to go out and have some fun, you'd jump into the car?
Darwin...
___________
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Star Crush
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Posted - 2006.05.23 04:38:00 -
[142]
Edited by: Star Crush on 23/05/2006 04:38:51
CcP can we please get a warning on the log in screen stating:
!!"Warning Eve is full of evil lil kids that will do anything for a cheap laugh, if you trust anyone in this game you will be killed over and over and over and over...and we wont do anything about it, have a nice day"!!
end of story.
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Ris Dnalor
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Posted - 2006.05.23 04:56:00 -
[143]
;)
so people responded to a fake distress call & got zapped --- no good deed goes unpunished -- big deal?
these people are copmlaining no b/c no way to strike back? --- if you're that mad, declare war, if you're not that mad, then?
You saw shiny lights in the sky & warped to see the pretty dreadnaughts & got yourself killed by a pos -- if you were sightseeing, why take anything other than a shuttle?
people who live in empire space get complacent. They're generally very protected. This isn't their fault. It's CCP's fault. CCP has gradually, step by step, taken most of the danger out of empire space. I don't like it but that doesn't matter. It is what it is. Now CCP has brought something new into the mix, & like good little eve players, we've figured out a way to bring danger back to empire, like we always do whenever we can... This has disrupted the eve-lives of many people who despise uninvited danger. These people have come to expect a certain level of safety in empire, & rightfully so, b/c CCP has provided it.
The simple end of it is that CCP either didn't forsee this, or are sitting back & giggling about it. Either way people are upset & it's not good for eve. I'd be happy if they disbanded concord alltogether, but I'm sure many more people would be livid. CCP needs to work on their consistancy. The people who destroyed should petition for reimbursement b/c of inconsistant game mechanics, not b/c they were griefed. The isk shouldn't come from the "pirates", b/c they were doing things exactly the way ccp wired the game. It's not their fault if CCP didn't sufficiently test their concept ( again ) before unleashing it in a patch. The isk should come from CCP, with an apology to both sides for causing a rift between two sets of players with two vastly different & conflicting playstyles.
tralala
--
Jump Drive Operation / Rank 5 / SP: 1280000 of 1280000 -- heh, remember when this actually was a rare thing? tralala
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Javane
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Posted - 2006.05.23 18:18:00 -
[144]
Screw all of that, look, if someone catches you with something like that, it is part of the game. Find the people who fell for it like you did and go back and kill the person. I did, it was great, I never felt better, I'm still jumping excitedly about it. This guy got me in Otsasai and I kill him. I'm Easy Button, also.
Impossible is nothing. |
Cylynex
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Posted - 2006.05.23 18:26:00 -
[145]
This isn't griefing ~
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Avon
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Posted - 2006.05.23 23:56:00 -
[146]
I couldn't care less about the people dying, only the lack of consequence (which is out of line with the rest of the game mechanics).
Is that so hard to understand?
Killing anyone in low-sec space (well, any Empire space) should come with a penalty.
Oh, and if you want to play the "Concord sanctioned" card, fine. Give the POS icons to show that Concord recognises the claim.
Don't want that? Yeah, that's what I thought.
The Battleships is not and should not be a solo pwnmobile - Oveur |
Estan Drake
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Posted - 2006.05.24 01:33:00 -
[147]
He isn't even sitting on his POS 23/7 anymore. He is sitting out side the station and spammign gang invited to everyone in the system.
Hes got 3 accounts Demos Altayr, fiberOpti, and Th'orn. Just don't trust those people. Better yet, do what we did: get a gang together and shoot them if they wanna try anything funny.
The POS is whatever, if you want to, then by all means listen to them and warp to their "mission" and get blown up by a POS. Thats nothing but your own fault, it is low sec and you shouldn't take rides with strangers anyway.
What is getting on my nerves is this person spamming gang invites. I'm about to file a Harrassment petition for those three if they Convoing and gang inviting me everyday. I Block one account and he tries me on another.
-Pink Sugar Heart Attack: It's on his kill mail.
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Surly Bob
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Posted - 2006.05.24 01:45:00 -
[148]
Edited by: Surly Bob on 24/05/2006 01:46:25
To the OP and fellow carebear whiners:
CCP can nerf POSes, but they can't fix your stupidity.
If they buy this lameass argument, it'll be just like with jetcan flagging, and will actually make "griefing" EASIER. More game mechanics will put the kind of idiots who fall for these sort of tricks at an even bigger disadvantage. KEEP IT SIMPLE, STUPID.
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Cocyte
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Posted - 2006.05.24 02:50:00 -
[149]
Originally by: Caerleus
Totally agree with you Avon in so far as , yes, you can scout out a POS's defenses, but you cant scan that moon.
Which means your not able to check to see what materials it produces to see if its a worthwhile exercise from that perspective.
Warp at 100 km of the pos in a pod. bookmark the place - name it A. Warp out to your starting spot.
Warp at 100 km of the bookmark A. You will be at 200 km of the pos. Bookmark this place and name it B. warp out again.
Warp at 100 km of the bookmark B. You will be at 300 km of the pos, out of the tower activation range, and you'll be free to launch your probe.
Sure, it will take some time, but scanning 50+ moons in a system is already a time wasting activity.
All the fuss about "protecting investment" is rubbish. During my first probing run, I lost my helios by warping a bit too close of a pos set to "wtfbbq" mode, and I considered paying mercs to blast it away... Conclusion : agressive POS is not a good way to make friends.
However, against this stupid guy using a gankpos... just wardec him and blast him to oblivion - with oblivion if you can :p
All your booze are belong to me.
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Kaylana Syi
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Posted - 2006.05.24 03:33:00 -
[150]
Originally by: Galk
It's about time ccp took a hardline against this sort of thing.
Pure greifing.
It is a game mechanic that some people use for bad... I would hardly call it greifing unless you think alliances are greifers for killing non blue in their sovereign space.
Originally by: "Oveur"
I don't react to threats any better than you do
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Kurren
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Posted - 2006.05.24 03:39:00 -
[151]
Originally by: Avon
I couldn't care less about the people dying, only the lack of consequence (which is out of line with the rest of the game mechanics).
What happens now is already part of the "game mechanics" and is therefore in line with everything.
Originally by: Avon
Oh, and if you want to play the "Concord sanctioned" card, fine. Give the POS icons to show that Concord recognises the claim.
Don't want that? Yeah, that's what I thought.
They're called moons. Every POS is at a moon. Other players can't "dock" in them, so why waste space in their overviews?
Somebody made the point, a very good one...
You're not always in-game to protect your POS. Therefore, it gets to shoot at anything you want it to shoot at. If the POS disappeared when you logged off, it might be different, but they don't. Thus, they get the right to "defend" at all costs and measures. It seems fair to me. There are way too many seedy, shady people for me to give a damn about a babbeling "innocent" that just happened to stop by my POS.
Yeah, that's what I think.
--- --- --- ---
SobaKai.com
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Aethia
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Posted - 2006.05.24 04:17:00 -
[152]
one of those annoying pop-ups you get before entering low sec or shooting someone, been ganged and various other things.
should show up before you warp to moon. e.g. "This moon may have a pos blah blah you might get killed" something similar with cyno's.
problem solved.
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Malken
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Posted - 2006.05.24 04:43:00 -
[153]
if you havent learned yet to ignore the low sec warning when you entered low sec then perhaps you should stay in the sandbox.
when you have learned not to accept random gang invites and be warped to a POS at a moon you might be intelligent enough to live in low sec and 0.0
until then stay in the .5 and up sandbox and stay off the forums with the crying "waaah-waaaah i got ganked, **** griefers"
darwin 4tw
Quote:
[05:17:46] Obiareus > freindlies dock or safespot
[05:17:51] Obiareus > YOU CANNOT WIN
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Madphly
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Posted - 2006.05.24 04:56:00 -
[154]
so the argument is about a security hit? or do you want a concordokken dread fleet to burninate the pos? i'd personally like to see some of those anyway. maybe call it "remodelling demolition." and just have concord blow up some npc stations and rebuild them. tee eheeee
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Estan Drake
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Posted - 2006.05.24 05:55:00 -
[155]
Originally by: Lorth
Originally by: Wrench Head
Very funny. But somehow I think the bloody bat might be a tipoff?
You really need to change parking lots, Son. Sounds a little rough in your neck of the woods.
I live on the praires. About the most dangerous thing here it spraining your ankle on a gopher hole.
OMG CAREBEAR! J/K
---
Anyway, like previous posters said, If they make it so you get kill rights on the POS owner or the owners get a sec hit, This mechanic will just be used and abused to the extreme.
-Have a grudge against that insolent carebear who has the gal to moon harvest in "your" system?
-Want that moon over there for yourself but dont want to hire a dread? G
-ot 1 million spare isk to buy a mess of shuttles?
As you could see, anyone could just fly shuttle after shuttle after shuttle to the POS and get it nuked.
Would this make people reconsider setting their POS to aggro anything and evrything? Maybe.
Would it make it costly for the owner of defensive or alliance POS in terms of rapidly getting -10 sec staus and not being able to travel wherever they want in EVE? Yes.
Would it also allow people to hunt down any old POS owner who "attacked" their Ibis? Would it let you harrass people in Empire space without having to properly Wardec them? Definately
Heres what I think they should do:
If a person is in your gang -> Your POS doesn't fire at them unprovoked.
Simple, elegant, striaghtforward. Of course, as soon as you leave the gang or the cowardly scammers in question kick you from it- the POS can simply open up with all guns.
What this does is give the "victim"?
A chance to get out of dodge if he was un-willingly tricked or gangwarped there.
Anyone agree?
This doesn't stop the cynofield trick (why the *^& are you warping to a cyno field you morons!) but it prevents accidental fragging of real gang members and adds a barrier to using the POS to willy nilly blast newbies and gullibles without penalty.
I think everyone could deal with that except for the guy who sits in his POS all day and spams local for "help"
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spurious signal
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Posted - 2006.05.24 06:29:00 -
[156]
Originally by: Estan Drake
If a person is in your gang -> Your POS doesn't fire at them unprovoked.
Very good idea, I like it a lot.
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Joerd Toastius
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Posted - 2006.05.24 08:10:00 -
[157]
Originally by: Avon
Oh, and if you want to play the "Concord sanctioned" card, fine. Give the POS icons to show that Concord recognises the claim.
If Concord didn't sanction it, you wouldn't be able to do it. The "it isn't allowed" argument just does not fly, because it is allowed. If you want a change, you gotta explain why it shouldn't be allowed.
Originally by: Cocyte
I lost my helios by warping a bit too close of a pos set to "wtfbbq" mode
And you learnt a valuable lesson about scouting moons, which is "approach in 'full paranoia' mode"
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Galadiin Venyaa
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Posted - 2006.05.24 11:26:00 -
[158]
lmao!
I love these "rent a life" threads!!!
PPL spending a lotta time coming up with a new exploit, and then when the exploit is reported, they spend weeks on the forum trying to justify it!
Well, to the exploiters, once this gets classified as an exploit, and you decide it's unfair that your exploit got blocked, and you decide to cancel all 15 your accounts... Can I have your stuff?
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Uggster
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Posted - 2006.05.24 12:05:00 -
[159]
Originally by: spurious signal
Originally by: Estan Drake
If a person is in your gang -> Your POS doesn't fire at them unprovoked.
Very good idea, I like it a lot.
Yeah it would be, I agree. However I have been toasted by a POS that was put up by an alliance member (and the standings were all fine) so before we add little gems like this it might be an idea to sort out the origonal POS coding.
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Corunna ElMan
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Posted - 2006.05.24 12:56:00 -
[160]
Originally by: Maximum69
Same thing has just happened to me, Raven destroyed. Demos Altayr tricked me into his gang then warped to his station where i got destroyed. This is an EXPLOIT ccp, the player is avoiding a sec drop and avoiding kill rights being put on him.
What kind of code can they possibly apply that will change your behavior? You're the sort who obviously groups with people you can't trust, that's not going to change... is it?
It's not an exploit because it was a result of your choice. I think it's lame too, but not as lame as stupid people who can't take responsibility for bad decisions.
- - - - -
"Never offend people with style when you can offend them with substance." - Sam Brown |
Omuro Takeda
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Posted - 2006.05.24 13:32:00 -
[161]
Originally by: spurious signal
Originally by: Estan Drake
If a person is in your gang -> Your POS doesn't fire at them unprovoked.
Very good idea, I like it a lot.
Awesome idea - guess what happens when you get kicked outa gang near the pos.
For the crybabies, there should be a second warning when they get a gang invite - "You're about to get warped to a POS and WTFBBQed and whine on the forums afterwards, you sure you don't wanna play some carebear mmo instead?"
Dream on if you think this'll be 'classified' as an exploit - the only abuse about it is player based and has got nothing to do with game mechanics. If you're stupid enough to accept random invites, you'll pay the consequences.
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Astrum Ludus
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Posted - 2006.05.24 13:43:00 -
[162]
The really annoying thing about this is that when I was sat out in low sec and I really needed help with a mission no one even responded.
Kinda double grief.
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Joerd Toastius
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Posted - 2006.05.24 13:57:00 -
[163]
Originally by: Omuro Takeda
Originally by: spurious signal
Originally by: Estan Drake
If a person is in your gang -> Your POS doesn't fire at them unprovoked.
Very good idea, I like it a lot.
Awesome idea - guess what happens when you get kicked outa gang near the pos.
Exactly. Anti-griefing mechanics never work.
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Estan Drake
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Posted - 2006.05.24 14:15:00 -
[164]
Originally by: Omuro Takeda
Originally by: spurious signal
Originally by: Estan Drake
If a person is in your gang -> Your POS doesn't fire at them unprovoked.
Very good idea, I like it a lot.
Awesome idea - guess what happens when you get kicked outa gang near the pos.
For the crybabies, there should be a second warning when they get a gang invite - "You're about to get warped to a POS and WTFBBQed and whine on the forums afterwards, you sure you don't wanna play some carebear mmo instead?"
Dream on if you think this'll be 'classified' as an exploit - the only abuse about it is player based and has got nothing to do with game mechanics. If you're stupid enough to accept random invites, you'll pay the consequences.
I don't need to guess what'll happen when you get kicked from the gang, I already posted that the POS would turn your ship into a can.
This isn't directed at you Omuro,
but maybe you people could be bothered to actually read a few posts before chiming in with your two cents... oh yeah *looks at previous posters* what you just said has already been repeated over and over on this thead.
Maybe we could use the forum to hold a constructive discussion instead? Though I'm sure more people would rather just continue yelling "greifer! Exploitz! POS NERF" or "OMG UR s0 stoopid, darw1n 4TW!" back and forth for a few more pages though...
As long as the thread stays alive it keeps its original purpose too. which was never to change anything about the game, but just warn people about this particular POS in that system
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Kaoticus
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Posted - 2006.06.27 04:07:00 -
[165]
i dont know what all the fuss is about
never give a sucker an even break
darwin 4tw indeed
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Erik Pathfinder
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Posted - 2006.06.27 04:52:00 -
[166]
Don't do the necro please
---------------
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Yggdrassil
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Posted - 2006.06.27 05:16:00 -
[167]
1. POS defenses are there to protect your investment.
2. POS defenses are NOT there to give pirates easy kills.
3. Someone warping to a "unknown" moon and get killed by a POS - fine. Bad luck.
4. Someone tricking non-war-targets to warp to a POS and get killed - NOT fine. Borderline of "using a flaw in the game mechanic to get an unfair advantage" imo. (read: exploit)
Thats my views. Might not be correct - but those are my opinions anyway.
Doesn't happen to often - but... Avon has posted a lot here that I agree on :)
Yggie
Yggdrassil |
Erik Pathfinder
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Posted - 2006.06.27 06:15:00 -
[168]
Warping to an unknown location in unsafe space is the players decision ultimately. It's nobody's fault but their own.
---------------
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Sir Juri
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Posted - 2006.06.27 06:53:00 -
[169]
Eh okey. Anyway its not griefing and its legit. Sec loss or not, nah shouldnt be I guess cause its about trickery, and its easy to avoid it. Thing is if its allowed to scam trickery should be allowed to, even if its not 0.0. And everyone who get killed by this deserves it (happen to me chasing a guy once, now I make sure to scan moons.)
And if I accept a gang invite to an "unknown" I do so allready willing to accept the fact I could loose my ship. And if I go to help an "unknown" at a location I scan it before warping.
damn need to make a new sig... |
Alvara
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Posted - 2006.07.30 06:40:00 -
[170]
Originally by: Caerleus
Or how about flying around in a Cov Ops and getting people to jump to someone else's NBSI POS?
Who gets the sec hit then?
I just might add this quote to my bio. rofl
To scan a moon with a POS, take a covert ops with a scan probe launcher.
stay way from pos and fly towards moon.
Several hundred kilometers later you are now in a different grid then the POS.
So you can scan the moon without POS popping ya.
It is what I do in 0.0 when I have to.
Hrmmm.
Simply put this game is great because it is harsh.
If you don't like it. *tough* Bet you don't like the real world either.
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spurious signal
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.07.30 07:31:00 -
[171]
Thread necromancy is bad, mkay?
CCP, please put a "report bad post" button on the forums so that necro posters can be slapped
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Mirirar
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.07.30 08:33:00 -
[172]
Originally by: Lorth
Or have we simply changed the meaning to everythign you don't like?
You're assuming half the people that throw the term around know what it means in the first place.
Don't get me started on the twits that call it "grieving".
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Aodha Khan
Minmatar
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Posted - 2006.07.30 10:51:00 -
[173]
Originally by: Galk
It's about time ccp took a hardline against this sort of thing.
Pure greifing.
bull.
There is nothing wrong with it.
So in war, the way is to avoid what is strong and to strike at what is weak.
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Aodha Khan
Minmatar
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Posted - 2006.07.30 10:54:00 -
[174]
Originally by: Yggdrassil
1. POS defenses are there to protect your investment.
2. POS defenses are NOT there to give pirates easy kills.
This is a sandbox. Everything doesn't necessarily need to have a label on it. Learning to adapt and try new things is what makes Eve great.
So in war, the way is to avoid what is strong and to strike at what is weak.
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HappyKitten
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.07.30 10:56:00 -
[175]
/splashes around the holy water
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000Hunter000
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.07.30 11:36:00 -
[176]
hm so yes it's not a nice thing to do and reaks a bit on the exploit side, but then again, wth where u doing ganging with some person u don't know and following them into warp to some unknown place? Did they lure u with 'big treasure at the end'or something? and what if the warpout location is a gankfleet instead? would u scream 'omgz0rs exploit!!!111ONE!!!' as well?
Banner will be updated shortly |
Jesters Knight
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Posted - 2006.07.30 11:37:00 -
[177]
teh only problem i have with the "warp them to a deathstar POS" is that the gang invite takes priority and is automaticaly selected as yes if you accidentaly hit enter.
i have accidentaly hit enter to quite a few popups while typing in corp or alliance chat.
that is the only thing that i think really needs to be worked on.
other than that, dont warp to a hostile deathstar :)
Sweet LAN party
( + ) + ( * ^  ) =  ^ +  |
Captain Nauts
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Posted - 2006.07.30 11:46:00 -
[178]
Point of EVE: Freedom. To do what you want in space.
If some noobs get greifed like this then its obviously dishonourable but live and learn ffs dont complain... boo hoo people are getting killed because they're stupid... thats what you sound like to me.
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Sister 9
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Posted - 2006.07.30 11:47:00 -
[179]
Originally by: Jenny Spitfire
Old news.
not everyone are such forum *****s, so it may be new news to them |
HappyKitten
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.07.30 11:48:00 -
[180]
Originally by: Sister 9
Originally by: Jenny Spitfire
Old news.
not everyone are such forum *****s, so it may be new news to them
The thread itself is two months old 
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Galk
Gallente
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Posted - 2006.07.30 12:00:00 -
[181]
Originally by: Aodha Khan
Originally by: Galk
It's about time ccp took a hardline against this sort of thing.
Pure greifing.
bull.
There is nothing wrong with it.
Wow, you troll a necro..
______
Long ago one gorgeous night, we let the stars grow free.
We let Zhuge do that once, he came back carrying a traffic cone, a forsale sign and three empty bottles of dutch lager. He also lost his Zimmer Frame... - Imaran
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Argenton Sayvers
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Posted - 2006.07.30 13:08:00 -
[182]
Edited by: Argenton Sayvers on 30/07/2006 13:08:50
I personally feel griefed by those danm players calling themselves Serpentis. Each time i warp to a belt in my shiney new covetor, those damn no-life basement kiddies lock on to me and start shooting me. This messed up "belt rat" corp is full of damn psychos who take sick pleasure by making me cry in real life. CCP should ban them all.
edit: bah, necros are griefers as well. Actually just ban everyone!
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Rabbitgod
Celestial Horizon Corp.
Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.07.30 15:29:00 -
[183]
Originally by: Kaladr
Darwin strikes again.
QFT
---{24th member of the 23}---
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PeeWee Pee
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Posted - 2006.07.30 15:31:00 -
[184]
Originally by: Rabbitgod
Originally by: Kaladr
Darwin strikes again.
QFT
/signed
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Jennifae
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Posted - 2006.07.30 16:07:00 -
[185]
Originally by: spurious signal
I've seen another warning about this last week but it seems to be becomming more common so I thought another warning might be in order.
A new trick that griefers are using is to set up a small POS somewhere then somehow get people to warp to it, either by generating a cyno field and going "come see pretty dreads!" or by asking for help in a mission or some other similar ruse. When the victim warps in to the POS area, not knowing there's a POS there, the POS promptly ganks them.
One such griefer in Otsasai yesterday was claiming 40+ kills, 20+ of which were Battleships.
Just a heads-up anyway, this is a lame tactic for the cowardly IMO, hopefully warnings will keep others from falling victim to it. Luckily I didn't trust the griefer who asked me for help in a mission so I didn't fall prey to it, but plenty of others are still getting ganked like this.
If stupid people warp to cyno fields in anything other than a small ship or something that can cloak, then whose to blame? I say the stupidity on their part is to blame.
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