This guy clearly doesn't know what a JUSTK dragoon/Algos fleet with logi frig support is capable of. I employ you sir to come over to Eha and try it sometime

I think that should be the goal. I agree it won't happen with the current mechanics. There are plenty of people who would love it if eve offered better mechanics that yielded more quality small scale pvp. But it doesn't. Most of the changes ccp delivers are from a carebear perspective of "isk per hour" or "risk versus isk" gain.

I would hope I missed huge numbers of fights I was gone for 8 months and really don't see much point in going back. Eve pvp takes up too much time for too few good fights.

I don't think its a matter of not knowing as much as not really caring to see a big logi fleet.

Why do you want the enemy to come to systems that only you can dock in? Why don't you go fight the Amarr if you have something to prove?

This guy clearly doesn't know what a JUSTK dragoon/Algos fleet with logi frig support is capable of. I employ you sir to come over to Eha and try it sometime

Why do you think it only applies to defender? It equally applies to attacker too.

Maintaining the status quo by simply driving someone out of a plex is a victory for the defenders in a way that it is not for the attackers. The defender needs only maintain the status quo to succeed in his defense while the attacker cannot achieve anything without actually taking plexes. Timer rollbacks provide a huge force multiplier but only to the defender. X was arguing that running a timer is a punishment and that it is not fair to expect the defender to run a timer when they have already won the engagement. My question is why should this principle not also apply to the attackers - win engagement, take plex. It is obvious why this should not happen with attackers but the fact that the proposed mechanism will be fundamentally imbalanced in providing a massive advantage to the defender only tells you all you need to know about why it is inherently flawed.

Timer rollbacks provide a huge force multiplier but only to the defender.

i basically did this every day until inferno came out. and it effected very little outcome in the form of pvp.

big deal. if you want to take that plex and there are hostiles around take the plex in force. with the new meta t1 logi fits i doubt anybody is gonna be at low armor or shields for long.

... to the side trying to maintain the status quo, or the guy trying to grief the other side. Yes, most of the time the status quo is trying to be maintained by the defender, but there's cases where the attacker wants to do it as well. The attacker is also the guy who is most likely trying to grief the other side. Griefing is an honorable profession and deserves more tools! :)

Unless you like to solo, and by solo i mean true solo, not dual boxing to bring in logi or ecm when thing's aren't going well.

Tough NPC ships would just pretty much murder the solo scene in FW space.

Even respawning could be pretty tough, if you're webbed and scrammed in a frig in a medium plex, you're gonna feel those cruiser guns while you're slowboating, even in their current form. I know i'm gonna rage if i lose a 1v1 for that 15% damage inflicted by a rat that spawned mid fight lol.


With regards to farming. They obviously annoy me, but i don't understand all the need to do something about them if in turns it will hinder nother legit playstyle (read: soloing). It's not like by making farming impossible pvp pilots are gonna get more fights, farmers aren't gonna turn into fighters, the number of people willing to fight will just be the same if we get rid of the farmer swarms, might actually get some people away, ones who undock pretty much only in farmer hunting fits to score easy kills.

Offensive plexing is griefing and running timers down in a plex is a punishment?

Offensive plexing is griefing and running timers down in a plex is a punishment?

I think we're through the looking glass here people

No it does not (XGallentius is missing this point as well). Maintaining the status quo by simply driving someone out of a plex is a victory for the defenders in a way that it is not for the attackers. The defender needs only maintain the status quo to succeed in his defense while the attacker cannot achieve anything without actually taking plexes. Timer rollbacks provide a huge force multiplier but only to the defender. X was arguing that running a timer is a punishment and that it is not fair to expect the defender to run a timer when they have already won the engagement. My question is why should this principle not also apply to the attackers - win engagement, take plex. It is obvious why this should not happen with attackers but the fact that the proposed mechanism will be fundamentally imbalanced in providing a massive advantage to the defender only tells you all you need to know about why it is inherently flawed.

That has nothing to do really with CCP. A lot of that has to do with inflation on ship prices and not actually having the means to make ISK in accordance with the inflation. Yes, some people are beyond rich and it's not a matter for them. For others, it makes most people risk averse and not as willing to go out true solo'ing or willing to take a fight they might lose.

For example, 4 years ago when a Dominix was only 45mil for the hull and about 65mil fully fit (no rigs back then as triple trimarks cost the same as the hull) I could run a few havens in nullsec, i.e. about 40mins of work, and that would pay for my Dominix and a few cruiser/battle cruiser hulls. Now I have to spend 3x/4x more time to make the same ISK to do the same thing. So I don't go roaming around solo in Domis anymore and I will often not take a fight I'm not sure I'll win if I'm in something expensive. That's the real reason you don't see people out roaming as often. Hitting that tier 3 gate camp with 4x guardians in your Dominix in today's EvE means spending a few hours grinding to make the ISK back as opposed to 30mins like in the past. Fix that and you'll see people more inclined to do stupid things with their ships again

Griefing is keeping the other guy from achieving his goal. Could be defensive or offensive plexing.

And yes, running down timers when the other guy will not fight is a punishment. I don't see why it is so difficult for you to understand. If the guy running down the timer decides to run, then the plex should move back towards zero if nothing else happens.

Doing so would encourage the players running the timer to defend the plex by providing a consequence to bailing.

...
We can all go out and find fights very quickly in FW. That is not an issue. The reason that farmers are so detested is the mandatory defensive plexing that goes along with them. Your home system might be strong in Euro and US TZ. If you're weak in Aussie time though - when people start logging back on you could be looking at 10% - 16% contested. ....

Plex mechanics should not be modified with the intent of making FW plex easier to capture. That's what double timers and faster timer counts on rollback would do. Time to contest the plex should also give opportunities for pilots to reship and come back. I may bail from a fight that's a bad matchup, but intend to return for a more even fight.

On the other hand, if I run someone out of a plex I want them to be able to have that same chance. If I actually want to run the plex, I can stay there and deal with the time they've run up. With normal rollbacks, I might decide to pop another one in the system while the first plex rolls back to 0, then run it. These mechanics would be fair to both sides.

Plex mechanics should not be modified with the intent of making FW plex easier to capture. That's what double timers and faster timer counts on rollback would do. Time to contest the plex should also give opportunities for pilots to reship and come back. I may bail from a fight that's a bad matchup, but intend to return for a more even fight.

On the other hand, if I run someone out of a plex I want them to be able to have that same chance. If I actually want to run the plex, I can stay there and deal with the time they've run up. With normal rollbacks, I might decide to pop another one in the system while the first plex rolls back to 0, then run it. These mechanics would be fair to both sides.