this is a common misconception. Any T2 BPO is far better if you sell it than if you actually use it.

Yes it nets you a fair profit margin but it isnt as much ISK as you would think, and it locks you into one single thing ever. It also ties up a METRIC TON of ISK in one object that could/should make you much more ISK with other investments. Also getting a T2 BPO is a huge risk; what if the item in question gets nerfed? What if something gets buffed and becomes better than what you make?

Lets look at the actual numbers for a fairly popular ship: the Vagabond

The vagabond sells for around 160,000,000 in jita all day. assuming perfect manufacture (duh) and ME/PE level 20

The build cost is around 116 million ISK giving you a nice profit margin, but you can only produce a max of 1 every 28.75 hours meaning you still only make around 1 billion ISK a month.

The last vagabond BPO that came up on the market had a bid of 200 billion ISK for it. Thats 16 years worth of manufacturing the darn thing!

TL;DR
T2 BPOs are worth more sold than produced from, and anyone who is currently holding on to them is either a collector or a moron.

Looking at the value of the BPO is pointless in my opinion. What you should look at is the fact that every single BPO holder can undercut any invention result as much as they desire. They don't even need to dominate the market, they can just constantly put their cheap products into the market to keep invention barely profitable, while still making good money. That is the problem of the T2 BPOs, not the fact that they are expensive to acquire or that you need to make a lot of money to get the ROI.

If tere is a solution that could be acceptable by all parties it will be hard to find.

I think it is the quality of BPC's from invention that is the problem.

If I invent a Tech 2 item then there should be a very small probability that it is a high ME /PE quality. There should be a means chance that they are as good as a researched Tech 2 BPO and there should be a chance that it is a poor quality invention with low ME/PE and, finally, even a small chance its a fail.

Anyone who bought a T2 BPO in the last 2 years can have no complaints. The nerf hads been on the cards for 4 years +

this is a common misconception. Any T2 BPO is far better if you sell it than if you actually use it.

Yes it nets you a fair profit margin but it isnt as much ISK as you would think, and it locks you into one single thing ever. It also ties up a METRIC TON of ISK in one object that could/should make you much more ISK with other investments. Also getting a T2 BPO is a huge risk; what if the item in question gets nerfed? What if something gets buffed and becomes better than what you make?

Lets look at the actual numbers for a fairly popular ship: the Vagabond

The vagabond sells for around 160,000,000 in jita all day. assuming perfect manufacture (duh) and ME/PE level 20

The build cost is around 116 million ISK giving you a nice profit margin, but you can only produce a max of 1 every 28.75 hours meaning you still only make around 1 billion ISK a month.

The last vagabond BPO that came up on the market had a bid of 200 billion ISK for it. Thats 16 years worth of manufacturing the darn thing!

TL;DR
T2 BPOs are worth more sold than produced from, and anyone who is currently holding on to them is either a collector or a moron.

During the Industry Panel yesterday @FanFest...

CCP have said that they will be removing T2 BPOs. Expect to hear more about it after the summer expansion, probably when they redo the Invention balancing.

And for all you T2 BPO owners... they did say that you'll receive some form of compensation.

During the Industry Panel yesterday @FanFest...

CCP have said that they will be removing T2 BPOs. Expect to hear more about it after the summer expansion, probably when they redo the Invention balancing.

And for all you T2 BPO owners... they did say that you'll receive some form of compensation.

If tere is a solution that could be acceptable by all parties it will be hard to find.

I dont like them in game, but its not because of fairness, there are plenty of un fair advantages in EVE, thats what makes it unique from other games. If you are going to suggest removing them, please use another justification other than, "unfair"**.

Looking at the value of the BPO is pointless in my opinion. What you should look at is the fact that every single BPO holder can undercut any invention result as much as they desire. They don't even need to dominate the market, they can just constantly put their cheap products into the market to keep invention barely profitable, while still making good money. That is the problem of the T2 BPOs, not the fact that they are expensive to acquire or that you need to make a lot of money to get the ROI.

The big issue here though is that those BPOs were never bought, they were gifted to an elected few lucky people that had either vacation or otherwise free time to a sufficient degree at the right time to boost their chances to get some.

With those T2 BPOs, it was less of an issue that they did exist, but way more how they were distributed - and how it's now not fair if the big part of eve is cooking with water, and a few people have water mkII, without their primary asset being even remotely at risk.

TL;DR
yes, the people who won T2 BPOs in the lottery paid for them in opportunity cost.

i own a t2 bpo and i will fabricate evidence to support my opinions

t2 bpos are going away deal with it.

and yes they are insanely profitable. you've had your 10 years to make your trillions of isk. that ship is sailing.

some t2 bpos arnt profitable. sorry those of you who got the broken end of the game.

I sold mine when one day I realied you know....my invention spamming was better isk.

Do you have a problem with my math or my logic? or are you simply ignoring everything except your pre conceived ideas because you dont know how to think critically?

Im betting on that last one.

So you're telling me that if I gave you a choice between a vagabond BPO and 200 billion ISK right now, you'd take the vagabond BPO? because thats the choice BPO holders make every day. There are dozens of people with more money than math credits who are chomping at the bit to get a T2 BPO for ridiculous prices.

Im assuming your goal is to make the most money fastest, and T2 BPOs are not the way to do that. In fact, if you have a T2 BPO the way to make the most ISK fastest is to sell it and get into trading.

I would have taken the BPO a year or two back if I had the money back then; nowadays and with all the changes and possible removal of these BPOs, I would take the money instead and ignore the sweet market domination and juicy profits. I am not after fast money at all, I am after entertainment and do whatever I have to get it for me.

yes your math is wrong AND so is your logic. bla bla bla no bla bla bla

Ok, feel free to point out any problems with my math and/or logic ... ill wait ...

Data... ... . ill wait ...

I bought a Tech 2 BPO on risk with no guarantee that it would last

so you're telling me that you understand that selling a BPO is worth more than it will make in almost a decade...

So your real complaint isnt that T2 BPOs make a ton of ISK; you're complaining that you dont have the opportunity to play with the T2 BPOs and feel super powerful even though selling them and doing ANYTHING else is clearly the better financial decision.

This would make sense if you couldnt sell T2 BPOs but people do it all the time. Consider buying one... The math says that owning a T2 BPO is not nearly as good an idea as selling it for 9 years worth of production profit...

Yeah but most T2 BPO's have been exploited by the original owners since they were won. Including years of much larger profit before Tech 2 components.

Remember 10M-15M Cap recharger II when they used to be built with a sprinkle of minerals?

I remember I bought my first Ishtar at 70M from Naga corp and that had profit in it. My first Rapier was 75M. Some people and some corps (eg: RKK) have been milking these lottery prizes for 10 yrs+

There will be winners and losers but I think it is right to nerf the Tech 2 BPO's (whilst I agree they should not be erased).

No, I tell you that T2 BPO are a problem for the Invention community because T2 BPO outclass Invention on every level imaginable. I've never told anything else.

No, I tell you that T2 BPO are a problem for the Invention community because T2 BPO outclass Invention on every level imaginable. I've never told anything else.

The only way someone would get any real advantage by having t2 bpos is if they had 10 or so (they must all be of an item that actually have good margins or else "what's the point") and they got them from the lottery so they don't have to recoup the 200+ billion isk purchase cost.

This is another troll post, that was never said, please stick to the topic...infact can we get ISD to go ahead and edit his post?

No, I tell you that T2 BPO are a problem for the Invention community because T2 BPO outclass Invention on every level imaginable. I've never told anything else.

The complaint seems to be: T2 BPO outperform T2 BPC and cannot be be acquired through gameplay.

You mean other than buying them from players just like you buy everything else in game?

Even in a vacuum that argument doesn't hold up, T1 BPOs are bought from NPCs, and us original owners only had to purchase T2 BPOs in varying amounts of RP. Certainly not the prices they command these days.

In my opinion there should be a mechanic for players to get T2 BPOs without having to purchase them from others. It's pretty clear CCP is leaning the other direction though towards reducing their effects/phasing them out.

You were in game when invention was introduced just like I was... This means that one of four things happened:

1. You got a T2 BPO
2. You had a TON of RP and made Billions selling datacores/inventing
3. You had a TON of RP but were an idiot and tried to sell them at the same time as everyone else
4. You were an idiot and didnt bother with research even though it had no opportunity cost.

either way, you either made a ton of ISK or you screwed up somehow and it's your fault that you didnt...

If you're going to make the "things should be equal" argument, you're barking up the wrong tree.

Because the exact same argument of "you only got that because you were playing longer than me!" can be transposed to skillpoints fairly easily, and that exposes just how dumb the entire argument is.

Unless I missed a specific note, with the changes to copy and manufacturing t2 BPOs are getting a buff in the summer.

I have a couple t2 bpos and I think many of you are horribly overestimated their profits. Yes almost all of them turn a profit but its pretty small on all but a couple, you can make much better isk doing invention. You trade off convenience for not needing to keep doing inv jobs and just keep pumping them out, but much slower than t2 bpcs will. T2 bpos have had their man and copy times massively increased to adjust how they compare to invented t2 bpcs. Where a bpc might build in 20 min the bpo takes 2 hours.

That's what I meant when I said 'It's going to be even worse if the copy time for t2 prints is reduced......that was probably the only thing that stop the BPO holders from completely dominating every part of the T2 market.'

Once T2 BPO owners have the ability to mass produced their items from squillions of high end BPCs then it's over for the common inventor.

Well done CCP, you deserve a massive round of applause.

CCP constantly make changes in game to make it a bit easier for newer players and keep it fair.

What's fair about players//alliances owning T2 BPO's that were given to them 10/11 years prior to any of these guys starting up. Especially when there's no chance of them ever attaining them the same way.

CCP should set a future date and get rid of them, make T2 a level playing field of invention alone.

It's going to be even worse if the copy time for t2 prints is reduced......that was probably the only thing that stop the BPO holders from completely dominating every part of the T2 market.

Now I totally expect to get flamed by the alliances or individuals that own the BPOs, but I'm sorry guys you will have to get over it. You've had it too good for too long.

There's nothing stopping people from accumulating skillpoints over time though so that argument falls flat. The mechanism by which players gain T2 BPOs was straight up removed. Frankly I think people who spend a lot of time inventing items deserve a crack at gaining BPOs for the items they invent.

Not even advocating for equality, again, merely equality of opportunity.

Right on. Also, we should probably zero out everyone's wallet and assets periodically. It's not fair to new players that some people are running around with trillion isk personal fortunes that they could never hope to match.

And this skill system is ridiculous. I have over 120m SP - how is someone starting today supposed to ever be my equal?