You are realy carebear if you want shot POS go to WH null or low, or wardeck all involved aliance.

Breaking News : thread which has not been there, totally new and great.

So, Dec Shield hates the service it claims to give people?
Yeah, sounds like a scam.

Change your corp to 'OUTRAEG ANGREE' or something.

Raising awareness and discussion about wardecs in order to help those who cannot defend themselves is a good thing. Trying to encourage CCP to alter game mechanics to fix broken loopholes is a good thing.

No money is involved here, only information which I'm offering to you freely. How can I be a scam in any way? Honestly, how? No really, I'll wait, go ahead and explain.

why call it exploit ?

It should cost billions to finance a war. 50 Million is a joke.

Because for the last 3.5 years it has been an exploit.

The recent deregulation of wardec mechanics is a sloppy cover to reduce GM petitions right before their massive layoffs, not because the exploit was fixed. It's because they didn't want to bother regulating it anymore.

The spirit of the rules governing wardecs are still broken, and abused. Our primary goal is to raise awareness and affect a change in game mechanics, or GM policy. Angering lots of people by denying them otherwise legitimate war targets is a means to raise awareness. That is why we do this, that is why this is still an exploit, that is why you must know about it. Plus, my Paint skills must be acknowledged.

Sounds like you're upset that it's no longer a cheap 50Mill to wage war.
Yes the wardec thing is broken. Now re-read that stickied post and try figure out why they cannot do anything about it right now.
Stop crying and pay the proper price for War. You're sounding a lot like a certain individual who is ex-Eve University and also went on and on and on and on and on and on about this same issue.

DEV PLEASE LOCK THIS THREAD

Every day we aid more corporations evade wardecs.

The recent deregulation of wardec mechanics is a sloppy cover to reduce GM petitions right before their massive layoffs, not because the exploit was fixed. It's because they didn't want to bother regulating it anymore.

Maybe you start deccing real corporations in low/null sec instead of carebears in high sec and stop having these problems.

It should cost billions to fight a war. Just declaring it shouldn't cost much more than the cost of a registered delivery, or maybe a taxi if you're delivering the notification by hand.

War should be hellish expensive anyway. 50 Mill ISK to wardec another Corp ? That's cheaper than a packet of chips. It should cost billions to finance a war. 50 Million is a joke.

Maybe you start deccing real corporations in low/null sec instead of carebears in high sec and stop having these problems.

Firstly, your tears are delicious and will be added to the ample collection we have going.

No one's going to declare war if it costs that much. This will create absolute safety in highsec; a ridiculous premise for EVE Online. EVE is about competition, and without being able to attack your rivals, none of their actions will have consequences. Bunch of guys come into your belt and bump your mining ships? Nothing you can do. Someone cleared out your corp hangars and started/joined a new corporation with your members' hard-earned ISK? You have no recourse. Someone keeps salvaging your mission wrecks? You can never touch him. Someone insulted your honor, and the honor of your significant other? Too bad, cuz you all be bitches.

There's a million legitimate reasons for the existence of wars in high-sec. By making them cost unreasonable sums of money, you eliminate the possibility of having them. You also essentially kill the mercenary profession, which is already barely financially viable in most high-sec situations.

Heck, even what you consider "griefing carebears," others would consider as separating the strong from the weak. Bad corporations fall apart under the pressure of conflict, while good ones go on to greatness.


See above.

Maybe you should realise that this is part of the game.

There's a million legitimate reasons for the existence of wars in high-sec. By making them cost unreasonable sums of money, you eliminate the possibility of having them. You also essentially kill the mercenary profession, which is already barely financially viable in most high-sec situations.

It should cost billions to fight a war. Just declaring it shouldn't cost much more than the cost of a registered delivery, or maybe a taxi if you're delivering the notification by hand.

No one's going to declare war if it costs that much. This will create absolute safety in highsec; a ridiculous premise for EVE Online. EVE is about competition, and without being able to attack your rivals, none of their actions will have consequences. Bunch of guys come into your belt and bump your mining ships? Nothing you can do. Someone cleared out your corp hangars and started/joined a new corporation with your members' hard-earned ISK? You have no recourse. Someone keeps salvaging your mission wrecks? You can never touch him. Someone insulted your honor, and the honor of your significant other? Too bad, cuz you all be bitches.

Or you move to 0.0.

finally we NEED to go unsub, biomass and shoot Jita monument!

So how many actual high sec wardecs were motivated by leverage, revenge, and conquest?

And how many of them were "for the kills" and done against small corps of noobs?

You should start inviting merc corps who just want to fight people.

Hello special space friend. The Eve wikia is wonderful place.

Griefing In Eve

Please note:

In general, "griefing" is a term that means action against another player that makes the target feel like being targeted on purpose or for the sake of harassment only.

In EVE, "griefing" refers to various activities, some of which can be argued not to be "griefing" in the classic sense, but parts of valid gameplay.

Read and understand.

See above.

Scout where the POS is.

War Dec them.
When they try to evade.
Shoot it into reinforced mode
Declare war again.
Blow it up.

If you are determined and make the effort, it is still possible

considering it's absolutely trivial to be a major PITA to someone just by deccing them, why would you want to prevent those who really don't want to fight to try to avoid a fight?

I thought the wardec fee was a bribe to Concord to look the other way, no? Its not unreasonable to expect the costs to go up after so many years of ISK inflation.

... That is entirely the point of this thread. That is not possible. There is a game bug that prevents you from wardeccing any corporation that has left an alliance until after the next downtime. ...

Time it right and when you are next able to attack them, their stront will have just run out.

Maybe you start deccing real corporations in low/null sec instead of carebears in high sec and stop having these problems.

This picture will show you exactly the step by step process on how to achieve highsec immunity from wardecs, and to save any of your towers infinitely. Your highsec towers will be completely invulnerable, no amount of wardecs will be able to destroy them, ever.

The exploit

For more information about the legality of this, visit this thread here, and see the GM ruling here.

CCP loves the mission bears, now go forth and use their exploits to enhance your gameplay. I will aid any of you with these abuses, Dec Shield will stand for the people. If you wish to promote a change to the current system of legal abuse, please give your support here.

To see a list of people we've aided with this in the past please visit our Dotlan listing. Every day we aid more corporations evade wardecs.

So, Dec Shield hates the service it claims to give people?
Yeah, sounds like a scam.

Change your corp to 'OUTRAEG ANGREE' or something.

Once again we sit on opposite sides of the table. I have a POS anchored in high sec, amongst other things. Right now I am on the receiving end of a war dec from a PvP corp. I have no idea why they decced me, they haven't written to me, threatened me or attempted to extort anything from me.

The consequences for them? Pay a few million ISK.

The consequences for me? I've had to take down most of the modules for my POS's, online my hardeners, ECM/Neuts and guns. I have significantly altered my EVE activities and I can't do a lot of the things I did before. Freighter runs are now a no-no unless I have heavy escort. Mining is pretty much out of the question when there are war targets online.

Now, don't take this as tears - if I had really wanted to get out of it, it costs nothing to make another corp like OP said, and move everyone there. But honestly I can't be that bothered - in fact I wanted to try out some POS gunnery but it looks like that's not going to happen. However I merely want to point out that a low sec/null sec corp that declares war on a high sec corp suffers absolutely no consequences. The payment is trivial. High sec corps usually are not combat oriented. Their low sec counterpart's behavior is not going to change. On the other hand the high sec corp a) had to grind standing for god knows how long for most of its members just to be able to anchor in high sec b) is prohibited from most of its activities (hauling/mining/manufacturing/research) during war time and c) is probably in no shape to try to bring the other party to the surrender table through military force.

So really the high sec corporation has a lot more to lose than the low sec one during a war. Therefore considering it's absolutely trivial to be a major PITA to someone just by deccing them, why would you want to prevent those who really don't want to fight to try to avoid a fight? What's next - forcing people to play EVE to get shot at and not be able to quit instead of logging out and coming back once the war is over? Let the people who don't want to fight run away, and fight people who are prepared to make a stand.

I'm sitting here right now waiting for a fight, and no one shows up. So who exactly is taking advantage of game mechanics here?

"my high-sec towers should be totally immune to everything!!!"

get out

There seems to be a lack of reading comprehension in this thread by a fair number of people. We (Dec Shield) are not declaring wars against anyone, ever. We're absorbing wars from other people. We usually have 5-10 incoming wars. Everyone here making arguments that we should "move to low/nullsec" or stop griefing carebears doesn't even make sense since we're not doing any fighting ourselves. We're the ones saving these people.

So yes, the argument for you to go pick on players that do want to fight is quite appropriate in this case.

It's not what you're writing that I question. It's how you're writing. And it seems quite clear that you are upset with CCP over the recent ruling with the war dec mechanics. So upset, in fact, that you've made it your own personal mission to "abuse" this mechanic because I suspect you think that will get it changed back to the status quo.

So yes, the argument for you to go pick on players that do want to fight is quite appropriate in this case.

It's not what you're writing that I question. It's how you're writing. And it seems quite clear that you are upset with CCP over the recent ruling with the war dec mechanics. So upset, in fact, that you've made it your own personal mission to "abuse" this mechanic because I suspect you think that will get it changed back to the status quo.

So yes, the argument for you to go pick on players that do want to fight is quite appropriate in this case.

You can question my motives all you want. Ad hominem responses don't make me wrong. I've been very clear from the beginning that we want CCP to change the game mechanics to prevent the sorts of abuses that I promote. Player corps should be vulnerable to wardecs. Anchored towers should be vulnerable to wardecs.

We raise awareness by abusing this loophole loudly in public. I really hope CCP changes things to prevent what we're doing.

The consequences for me? I've had to take down most of the modules for my POS's, online my hardeners, ECM/Neuts and guns. I have significantly altered my EVE activities and I can't do a lot of the things I did before. Freighter runs are now a no-no unless I have heavy escort. Mining is pretty much out of the question when there are war targets online.

Probably your attackers were mostly out to destroy your tower and loot the modules. By taking down the labs, etc., you made their objective unattainable, so they aren't bothering to fight. They will probably let the dec expire at the end of the week and find a less attentive target.

You could just fit your POS with some defensive modules and some industrial modules, and leave it that way in peace and war alike. Less industrial output per fuel block, but then you don't need to suspend operations when dec'ed. Also, if potential attackers see a few neuts and guns on your POS, they might not bother dec'ing you in the first place.

This picture will show you exactly the step by step process on how to achieve highsec immunity from wardecs, and to save any of your towers infinitely. Your highsec towers will be completely invulnerable, no amount of wardecs will be able to destroy them, ever.

The exploit

For more information about the legality of this, visit this thread here, and see the GM ruling here.

CCP loves the mission bears, now go forth and use their exploits to enhance your gameplay. I will aid any of you with these abuses, Dec Shield will stand for the people. If you wish to promote a change to the current system of legal abuse, please give your support here.

To see a list of people we've aided with this in the past please visit our Dotlan listing. Every day we aid more corporations evade wardecs.

Welcome to eve. Your POS is not supposed to be happy-funtime immunity. Anchoring a POS is placing that POS at risk.

Defensive modules on a POS are nearly meaningless unless it's a deathstar

and you have 5-6 active POS gunners

killing a highsec pos is trivially easy.

If you don't want to fight, don't plant a POS. In fact, don't create a corp. Doing either means you're in it for the competitive advantage, and robbing you of that advantage should always be an option.

You see? Another kid who thinks he is entitled to be 100% invulnerable in Highsec.

These are the people who CCP are listening to now. Its their game now. In a year or two this will be Hello Kitty Online (Paintable pink ships here we come)

We raise awareness by abusing this loophole loudly in public. I really hope CCP changes things to prevent what we're doing.

There seems to be a lack of reading comprehension in this thread by a fair number of people... Everyone here making arguments that we should "move to low/nullsec" or stop griefing carebears doesn't even make sense since we're not doing any fighting ourselves. We're the ones saving these people.

Not really. You just needed blobs of subcaps. Highsec POS''s were already harder to kill then Nullsec POS's just because you cant drop capitals on them.

However, now Highsec POS kills are literally impossible. You simply can not kill them anymore. There is now a switch you can flick and it removes the wardec and your POS is magically safe.

The only comprehension problems seem to be coming from you.

Everything you say should be accompanied by a side of cheese. No really, you're on a roll here. Three posts in a row. /golfClap. Please don't let me stand in your way, keep going.

I'm assuming that you think I've contradicted myself because you've double quoted me as if I had done so... I said I hope CCP changes game mechanics to prevent wardec alliance hopping abuse/tower saving (like we're offering to people). And the other quote is me saying that we were weren't doing any fighting ourselves.

How do these two quotes demonstrate a lack of comprehension by me? I think you only reinforced my original sentiment regarding you.

Or you move to 0.0. Problem solved, unless you can't compete.

Once again we sit on opposite sides of the table. I have a POS anchored in high sec, amongst other things. Right now I am on the receiving end of a war dec from a PvP corp. I have no idea why they decced me, they haven't written to me, threatened me or attempted to extort anything from me.

The consequences for them? Pay a few million ISK.

The consequences for me? I've had to take down most of the modules for my POS's, online my hardeners, ECM/Neuts and guns. I have significantly altered my EVE activities and I can't do a lot of the things I did before. Freighter runs are now a no-no unless I have heavy escort. Mining is pretty much out of the question when there are war targets online.

Now, don't take this as tears - if I had really wanted to get out of it, it costs nothing to make another corp like OP said, and move everyone there. But honestly I can't be that bothered - in fact I wanted to try out some POS gunnery but it looks like that's not going to happen. However I merely want to point out that a low sec/null sec corp that declares war on a high sec corp suffers absolutely no consequences. The payment is trivial. High sec corps usually are not combat oriented. Their low sec counterpart's behavior is not going to change. On the other hand the high sec corp a) had to grind standing for god knows how long for most of its members just to be able to anchor in high sec b) is prohibited from most of its activities (hauling/mining/manufacturing/research) during war time and c) is probably in no shape to try to bring the other party to the surrender table through military force.

So really the high sec corporation has a lot more to lose than the low sec one during a war. Therefore considering it's absolutely trivial to be a major PITA to someone just by deccing them, why would you want to prevent those who really don't want to fight to try to avoid a fight? What's next - forcing people to play EVE to get shot at and not be able to quit instead of logging out and coming back once the war is over? Let the people who don't want to fight run away, and fight people who are prepared to make a stand.

I'm sitting here right now waiting for a fight, and no one shows up. So who exactly is taking advantage of game mechanics here?

So how many actual high sec wardecs were motivated by leverage, revenge, and conquest?

And how many of them were "for the kills" and done against small corps of noobs?

If the owners of the tower fail to set their stront timer correctly then they can be killed yes. If they set it correctly they're invulnerable. Just because someone is terrible at the game doesn't mean the mechanics aren't broken.

People would be forced to compete with your prices on the market, but you wouldn't be forced to compete with them militarily for raw goods and freedom of movement. How would that be fair, exactly?

You make a valid point. I guess my assumption is along the lines of I am competing with other industrial type players on the market - not with PvPers who just want to blow things up.

I guess it's the age old case of "the strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must". What has to be understood however is that there are people who are drawn to EVE for the industrial and economic aspect and who won't fight no matter what. Screwing with the war dec mechanics and "forcing" them to fight will just result in them not playing the game at all. And then who will get picked on when all the easy targets have left?

These pure industrial/economic types should still be aware that in EVE, they are always susceptible to violence. They need to either learn to defend themselves, hire other people for defense with their industry profits, or, as in your Thucydides quote, to suffer what they must. In EVE, fighting is always optional, but being exposed to the possibility of being attacked isn't. That's what makes EVE, well, EVE.

You are realy carebear if you want shot POS go to WH null or low, or wardeck all involved aliance.

These are the people who CCP are listening to now. Its their game now. In a year or two this will be Hello Kitty Online (Paintable pink ships here we come)

If you have a problem with that then don't play a sandbox game EVE FFS.

Have you ever heard the expression, GÇ£You can lead a horse to water, but you canGÇÖt make him drinkGÇ¥? The fundamental issue here is that some people just donGÇÖt want to fight. The devs and GMs and mercenaries may wish otherwise and may seek to find ways to force the issue, but those efforts are doomed to failure.

If a dec mechanic locked a corporation into an alliance (or out of one) and locked every single member into that corporation for the duration of the war, it would only lead to people leaving the game. The only result of a push to force people to PvP is that there will be no PvP from those people. ItGÇÖs just not going to happen. Just like its not happening now, just like it hasnGÇÖt been happening for years. The change to wardec policing changes nothing in practice. Those people were always avoiding the decs. The only people affected by hisec wardecs are those with an attachment to their corp name, those with a POS that canGÇÖt be taken down quickly, and those who donGÇÖt know better. ThatGÇÖs it.

CCP should spend a little time gathering information from those players about why they donGÇÖt want to fight. Or under what conditions they would.

At the end of the day, this is what weGÇÖre really talking about when weGÇÖre talking about wardec shields and evasion. Like it or not, you can lead a carebear to war, but you canGÇÖt make him fight.

Wardecs have always been and will always be pointless. As long as they follow the corp and not the player, they can and will be evaded. In effect, this means wardecs affect only people who care about their corp name, have a POS they can't take down quickly, and the clueless. Any change to wardecs that makes them against individuals will lead to those people leaving the game. They don't want to fight. They aren't going to fight. There is nothing you or CCP can do to make them. Period. The End. There is no fix for wardecs. Just get rid of them.
Ganking is, was, and will always be the only way to get individuals.

The only failing of the change to wardec policing by the GMs is POS destruction. The only solutions that are needed are ones that make POS bashing in hisec possible.

Whenever I hear about extending decs to individual pilots, I just shake my head in amazement. What is it that you think will happen? People avoid decs for a reason. They're not interested in fighting. So what happens when the war gets tagged on to the character? Do these people magically decide to change several year's worth of behavior and playstyle and come out with guns blazing? The potential for never ending griefing that goes with putting decs (or kill rights) on individuals is simply too great and its effect is all too predictable.

If you want to kill something, get your ass to losec/nosec. PvP'ers in hisec are making a paradoxical argument: they want to kill whomever they please, but they don't want non-consensual PvP from anyone else. Choose one or the other; you're either for non-consensual PvP for all or for none.

Lots of stuff

+

If you want to kill something, get your ass to losec/nosec. PvP'ers in hisec are making a paradoxical argument: they want to kill whomever they please, but they don't want non-consensual PvP from anyone else. Choose one or the other; you're either for non-consensual PvP for all or for none.

And the most important question: how are we supposed to find pvp in a game that bills itself as pvp-focused? Are the five hundred of us who are actually interested in shooting other players supposed to take turns shooting each other, while the other couple hundred thousand happily bear it up? Maybe the whole concept of pvp is simply flawed, and needs to be done away with?

You tell me.

Allright. You want to get someone to fight you? Just do one of two things:

1) Make yourself look like an easy target. Make them think they can kill you, take your stuff, lol at you in local, etc. then prove them wrong.

2) Threaten to take something away from them if they don't fight you. Loot, ore, salvage, mission objectives, a POS, a system, whatever, it has to be something valuable enough to **** them off not to just dock and wait for you to leave out of boredom.

Find a way to satisfy one of the above you will have more fights than you know what to do with in ANY sec.

If you are going to whine and scream because you cant grief a 5 man corp for almost free... etc etc

omg stuffz

You are realy carebear if you want shot POS go to WH null or low, or wardeck all involved aliance.