PVE combat in MMO is always shite. At least in EVE you aren't stuck in a canned animation looking like your dancing to the hoolah with lights flashing out of your butt.

What you have to keep in mind is that anyone coming into Eve is likely to have had experience of other (often free to play MMOs), and naturally they will have certain expectations. Equally, as developers of an MMO CCP should know this and be perfectly well aware of what those expectations are.

PvE in Eve is shite.
It's completely true, there's no denying it.

'Epic arcs' were added back in Dominion (2009) and touted as a framework that would permit the constant creation of new and exciting PvE with "immersive story, with dramatic arcs, unique characters, and an ebb and flow of dramatic events" in which the choices the player made would impact on how the story developed. Well what a crock of **** that turned out to be.

Many new Eve players will expect to be able to log in and chill out while leveling up their Raven/(faction pirate mission machine).

I seem to recall that when Sleeper AI was introduced there was talk of that eventually finding its way into mission and belt/exploration rats, and again with the introduction of Incursions. Needless to say, nothing came from that.

Another thing that was mentioned in the article was that most players who play Eve leave almost immediately, of those that don't most play entirely solo for a while and then leave later, and that very few engage with other players at all, but the one that do engage with other players tend to be the ones that stay.

A good deal new players leave because they are used to hand holding and theme park MMOs. Without something telling them how to proceed or a YouTube video telling them the mechanics of a static fight, they vapor lock.

These are the ones you see on the forums that want a pvp toggle, whine about never being able to compete with a 100m sp person, or super-concord in every system(to name a few). Eve is better off without them.

Why do PvP and PvE have to be different things?

PvE is ****, correct, but how is it different from other games and their pve? PvE is basically always tedious and boring, its Always a grind.

If Im wrong, please show me another mmo with meaningfull and "exciting" and tell me what is so different about it.

crush them like lemmings

butt puppets.

They're the ones who want to log in and do their own thing and what the hell is wrong with that anyway? It's their money, their spare time. If CCP doesn't want to cater to them, fine. Don't expect their custom. Why complain about them?

Why do PvP and PvE have to be different things? I don't drive to work in the morning and say oh I'd better not get into a crash because this isn't my PvP car. It's stupid.

They're the ones who want to log in and do their own thing and what the hell is wrong with that anyway? It's their money, their spare time. If CCP doesn't want to cater to them, fine. Don't expect their custom. Why complain about them?

hahaha a puppet controlled with farts

Jester's Trek... EN24

gold ammo

They're the ones who want to log in and do their own thing and what the hell is wrong with that anyway?

It's their money, their spare time. If CCP doesn't want to cater to them, fine. Don't expect their custom. Why complain about them?

I seem to recall that when Sleeper AI was introduced there was talk of that eventually finding its way into mission and belt/exploration rats, and again with the introduction of Incursions. Needless to say, nothing came from that.

Inertia.

Just think about how much work it would be to change every mission in the game to be a proper PvP-like experience and how many tops would be blown by people who'd no longer be able to just warp in with their battleship, F1 everything in sight, and casually collect cashGǪ

From what I have seen of the "younger" generation at work, unless you can play Eve on a smart phone, this game is too damned old to be bothered with...

Yes that would explain the 25mil+ daily players who play League of Legends on their smart phones.... wait a minute

I dislike lights flashing out of my butt, but EVE's combat GUI is pretty sad too, imo.

EVE PVP has incredible depth, but those red squares and alphanumerical data don't exactly do a spectacular job in conveying that depth

because when nobody's holding your hand, people tend to get lost.

In the wrong part of town, where you get scammed, trolled, mugged, griefed, and awoxed.

Fun isn't it?

Is it any wonder people do not choose to pay for that, apart from maybe the bottom 1% or less of the barrel.

You know most people, Even long term players *shock* do not want to play in a game version mix of downtown Detroit and a Crack house.

In the wrong part of town, where you get scammed, trolled, mugged, griefed, and awoxed.

Fun isn't it?

Is it any wonder people do not choose to pay for that, apart from maybe the bottom 1% or less of the barrel.

You know most people, Even long term players *shock* do not want to play in a game version mix of downtown Detroit and a Crack house.

(damn, i said bums, i gotta stop playing EVE with Brits).

A recent Jester's Trek article on EN24 http://evenews24.com/2014/05/10/jesters-trek-the-seven-percent-solution/ discusses CCP's concerns with the New Player Experience and suggests that some of the guys at CCP have been struggling to understand why Eve isn't more popular. Among all the reader comments on that article one jumped out at me immediately. PvE in Eve is shite.

It's completely true, there's no denying it.

You warp into a level 4 mission and there are rows of red x's all arranged in neat little blobs. They sit there dumbly as you start picking off the ones at the end and only actually shoot you back when you start attacking the ones in their own little blob. They don't remote rep at all, and apart from a couple of bosses their local rep is pathetic, they almost never web or scram you, and they don't try to escape before they are killed. Ewar between NPC's and players either doesn't work at all, or is mostly a chance based mockery of real player ewar that makes using it in PvE almost completely pointless.

What's more. Despite all the changes to the game over the years basic NPC combat of the kind you find in missions and belts hasn't improved one little bit in 10 years.

'Epic arcs' were added back in Dominion (2009) and touted as a framework that would permit the constant creation of new and exciting PvE with "immersive story, with dramatic arcs, unique characters, and an ebb and flow of dramatic events" in which the choices the player made would impact on how the story developed. Well what a crock of **** that turned out to be. To date there are I think 7 arcs making this a classic example of a good idea that once implemented has been pretty much left to rot on the vine.

What you have to keep in mind is that anyone coming into Eve is likely to have had experience of other (often free to play MMOs), and naturally they will have certain expectations. Equally, as developers of an MMO CCP should know this and be perfectly well aware of what those expectations are.

Many new Eve players will expect to be able to log in and chill out while leveling up their Raven/(faction pirate mission machine). In order to do that Eve has to provide an entry level NPC combat system that is engaging. NPCs should be hard enough to be challenging and have some basic combat intelligence. For better realism, missions should consist of fewer, harder NPCs. They should have decent tanks, remote rep in harder missions, attack in a coordinated fashion, attempt to retreat before they are destroyed, and EWAR should work the same on NPCs as it does on players.

I seem to recall that when Sleeper AI was introduced there was talk of that eventually finding its way into mission and belt/exploration rats, and again with the introduction of Incursions. Needless to say, nothing came from that.

Another thing that was mentioned in the article was that most players who play Eve leave almost immediately, of those that don't most play entirely solo for a while and then leave later, and that very few engage with other players at all, but the one that do engage with other players tend to be the ones that stay. Well if that's the case and you want to do something to encourage new players to engage with other players, then instead of having the new player experience being nothing more than an introduction on how to run missions by yourself, why not instead have a new player experience that focuses instead on player interaction?

Here's a random thought. Instead of having new players start off in an NPC corp, why not have them start off in a Faction Warfare militia instead, and have a few extra simple missions just for brand new characters to ease them into it. They can always leave of course and revert to an NPC corp once they've completed the tutorial.

The thing that keeps me in Eve and has driven all my online friends away is the lack of skill and loot grind. Most mmo's have in place a mechanism that rewards those that can raid 23/7 to get the most level and loot. This is not the case in eve. If I play for ten years I will have more SP and options than the 1 month old player. Most newer players canGÇÖt get past this and donGÇÖt understand you have to find the role your SP allow to fill and one you like.

Why do PvP and PvE have to be different things? I don't drive to work in the morning and say oh I'd better not get into a crash because this isn't my PvP car. It's stupid.

Welp, that's stroke #4 I've had caused by clicking the like button, check your EVEmail tomorrow for the bill to my obamacare premiums that are now sky high.

Welp, that's stroke #4 I've had caused by clicking the like button, check your EVEmail tomorrow for the bill to my obamacare premiums that are now sky high.

The thing that keeps me in Eve and has driven all my online friends away is the lack of skill and loot grind. Most mmo's have in place a mechanism that rewards those that can raid 23/7 to get the most level and loot.

The thing that keeps me in Eve and has driven all my online friends away is the lack of skill and loot grind. Most mmo's have in place a mechanism that rewards those that can raid 23/7 to get the most level and loot. This is not the case in eve. If I play for ten years I will have more SP and options than the 1 month old player. Most newer players canGÇÖt get past this and donGÇÖt understand you have to find the role your SP allow to fill and one you like.

I know a lot of people who have tried Eve and there biggest complaint was that trying to find a decent corp to play the game with people was next to impossible.

It's also worth noting that, at a fundamental level, the game design and business model of most MMOs revolves around providing the player with the illusion of accomplishment.

You go out and do some quests and level up and there's a celebratory Ding! with some pretty particle effects and you're a big winner who just "accomplished" something, even though you really didn't - on a long enough timeline, you could do nothing but roll your face across the keyboard and you would, eventually, accomplish the exact same thing.

That illusion of accomplishment is exactly what a lot of MMO players are looking for, and that's fine, but it isn't something that Eve is very good at providing, because Eve is PvP-centric. For the most part, you can't get a cookie just for showing up - you have to go out and find something who has a cookie, knock their ass in the dirt, and take their cookie from them... which is great fun for people who enjoy that sort of thing, but is off-putting for people who, having arrived in the game, are ready to start feeling accomplished any second now.

Well if that's the case and you want to do something to encourage new players to engage with other players, then instead of having the new player experience being nothing more than an introduction on how to run missions by yourself, why not instead have a new player experience that focuses instead on player interaction?

That illusion of accomplishment is exactly what a lot of MMO players are looking for, and that's fine, but it isn't something that Eve is very good at providing

It's also worth noting that, at a fundamental level, the game design and business model of most MMOs revolves around providing the player with the illusion of accomplishment.

You go out and do some quests and level up and there's a celebratory Ding! with some pretty particle effects and you're a big winner who just "accomplished" something, even though you really didn't - on a long enough timeline, you could do nothing but roll your face across the keyboard and you would, eventually, accomplish the exact same thing.

That illusion of accomplishment is exactly what a lot of MMO players are looking for, and that's fine, but it isn't something that Eve is very good at providing, because Eve is PvP-centric. For the most part, you can't get a cookie just for showing up - you have to go out and find someone who has a cookie, knock their ass in the dirt, and take their cookie from them... which is great fun for people who enjoy that sort of thing, but is off-putting for people who, having arrived in the game, are ready to start feeling accomplished any second now, simply because they've bothered to show up.

You have your spaceships with guns and mining laser and whole universe to explore and still it is not enough? Kids these days...

they try to release an expansion every 6 months but it is usually just a patch, and it has to do with the terrible representation of the player base.

Then their choice to play EVE online was the incorrect one. As is yours it seems.

EVE is working as intended, it's turning away the crappy MMO players who would crap up the game with their incessant crying over every little thing that didn't craddle them while wiping their bums (damn, i said bums, i gotta stop playing EVE with Brits).

The EVE community isn't the bottom of the barrel, it's the top of the food chain.

and it has to do with the terrible representation of the player base.

I love the game.
I have absolutely no problem overall with the more Toxic side of eve,
I have good people to play with in a good corp and I have been very lucky in my game experiences.
I would be a fool to pretend though that the seamy side of EvE did not exist, and my less than pleasant experiences, that Everyone experiences at some time, were at a stage when they were of lesser importance..
Not every new player is so lucky, and the memories they take away, are not positive. And they tell their friends...
So some keep subscribing, that 40% of new subscribers, those 80+ % of players, hide away, trying to live in the cracks, and niches, to avoid the areas and People that they are told is "real EvE"

Funny over 80% of EvEs player base are doing it wrong.

Then they are just like large chunks of humanity who are also doing it wrong lol.

Fine Jenn but any business cannot exist with a few "elite " customers at a mainstream price.
How much is EvE worth to you?

those 80+ % of players, hide away, trying to live in the cracks, and niches, to avoid the areas and People that they are told is "real EvE"

Funny over 80% of EvEs player base are doing it wrong.

Probably the same to her as it is to me;

Nothing at all if they change the model to encourage WoWHeads and CoDkids

Fine Jenn but any business cannot exist with a few "elite " customers at a mainstream price.
How much is EvE worth to you?

Fine Jenn but any business cannot exist with a few "elite " customers at a mainstream price.
How much is EvE worth to you?

Fine Jenn but any business cannot exist with a few "elite " customers at a mainstream price.
How much is EvE worth to you?

Is that the only choice?

Or is an option to make it so there is more chance of encountering a good player experience than a bad, to meet with like minded people rather than to just be prey to someones baser desires, until they have the strength and love of the game to deal with that and laugh it off?

Or is the point of new players simply to provide a steady supply of victims?

"free to play" junk.

Confirming that it's completely impossible to scale a business (and its costs) to match the size of its market.

IMPOSSIBLE!

Eve does need new PvE if not more and less griefing thinly disguised as being part of the game... the latter alone would make the game alot more popular...

Tal

I know, those new ships, modules and items are just patches and I hate how Im misrepresented in the press

Damn those paparazzi

PvE is ****, correct, but how is it different from other games and their pve? PvE is basically always tedious and boring, its Always a grind.

If Im wrong, please show me another mmo with meaningfull and "exciting" and tell me what is so different about it.

There it is, the fear that underpins the 'EVE is dying' and 'More subs now!" thinking that pops up everyday on EVE related forums. The fear that a beloved pastime will go away if it doesn't grow/gain popularity at a certain arbitrary rate.

CCP isn't showing any signs of distress. Our game is safe for now, and if history is an indicator, for years to come.

And I will add that 15 bucks a month isn't a mainstream price in a market filled with "free to play" junk.

You warp into a level 4 mission and there are rows of red x's all arranged in neat little blobs. They sit there dumbly as you start picking off the ones at the end and only actually shoot you back when you start attacking the ones in their own little blob. They don't remote rep at all, and apart from a couple of bosses their local rep is pathetic, they almost never web or scram you, and they don't try to escape before they are killed. Ewar between NPC's and players either doesn't work at all, or is mostly a chance based mockery of real player ewar that makes using it in PvE almost completely pointless.

PvE is shite.

It's completely true, there's no denying it.

Another thing that was mentioned in the article was that most players who play Eve leave almost immediately, of those that don't most play entirely solo for a while and then leave later, and that very few engage with other players at all, but the one that do engage with other players tend to be the ones that stay. Well if that's the case and you want to do something to encourage new players to engage with other players, then instead of having the new player experience being nothing more than an introduction on how to run missions by yourself, why not instead have a new player experience that focuses instead on player interaction?

Here's a random thought. Instead of having new players start off in an NPC corp, why not have them start off in a Faction Warfare militia instead, and have a few extra simple missions just for brand new characters to ease them into it. They can always leave of course and revert to an NPC corp once they've completed the tutorial.

the industry standard set forth by other successful companies.

Id just like to say WoT is fun to me, though on the pC I became slightly addicted to gold for a while

But its as cruel as mistress as EvE

Either you understand armour physics or you dont, simples

I tried WoT, but all the vehicles were (wait for it........) -Armor Tankers- and i wanted to train shields. Freaking amarrians everywhere.

What? What do you mean step away from the EVE, you go to hell!!

I think for the same reason many people don't go to low or null sec- they like playing alone

What I dont understand is;

when several of the above posters say;

EvE is bad for new players because X Y Z make it a bad environment

Which is the game they currently pay to play.

This game is a free roaming environment.

The truth is that most so-called video game players either do not know what to do with this freedom or find it intimidating.

You cannot blame the poor single-player experience for why more people dont enjoy the open-ended sandbox.

And you cannot say that the apple that is EvE is broken for not being an orange.

Faction warfare, for example has become button spinning or getting jumped or jumping on others with boosted gangs.
There is nowhere that people can 1v1 PvP without getting whelped. One engages ten jump in and kill.
Hey I do it myself, thats the way it is set up, shame to waste the opportunity for some fun. But no way is it a place for a novice alone.

So not new player friendly unless they have already made the jump into a corp or group.
It was meant to be a proving ground, where people could earn their spurs, with 1v1 PvP , and gain experience and have fun.
Now it is a place to go to kill things, not to fight.

Gû¼Gû¼Gû¦ Features & Ideas Discussion
FuryBotGäó 0.86

CCP isn't showing any signs of distress.

Because their definition appears to differ from yours as to how much minimum content is in an expansion.

also, i think downtown detroit and crack houses are massively interesting places; just not interesting enough to risk my life for. so a risk free version of that sounds ideal, really. they have a certain je ne sais quois.

What I dont understand is;

when several of the above posters say;

EvE is bad for new players because X Y Z make it a bad environment

Which is the game they currently pay to play.

This game is a free roaming environment.

The truth is that most so-called video game players either do not know what to do with this freedom or find it intimidating.

You cannot blame the poor single-player experience for why more people dont enjoy the open-ended sandbox.

And you cannot say that the apple that is EvE is broken for not being an orange.

I think this idea of "freedom" and "openess" is greatly over estimated by vet players.

Read their 2013 financial statement.

The one with the WoD write-off? Doesn't prove anything about EVE profitability.

Apart from experience taking time to learn, in what other way are you restricted?

Because the crux of your counter-point seems to be that it takes time to do stuff.

You say it cant be fixed.

I say it isnt broken.

WHs, null and low are no place for beginners, sure it's fun if your corp is on but if you end up out there alone it's log out or wait time.

Well lets see, off the top of my head

Isk, SP, knowledge, corp mates, time

Time being a very big one seeing as how if you don't have at least 2+ hours of dedicated uninterrupted playtime you are very limited. Not to mention very hard to schedule with others if you can only get on for a couple hours at a time. This limitation is amplified if you have low sp, isk and knowledge.

Edit: I'm not saying it's broken either. Just stating what the issue for new players is and i don't see a way to make it easier for them without completely fubar'ing eve

So... time... as you mentioned before.

And yes, two hours would be the minimum playtime at least every few days if not more often that you would need to put into an MMORPG of EvE's calibre to get anything approximating the most out of it.

And even then Id say its nothing like enough.

As for low SP and Isk, well those are hardly barriers in your way. Within 48hrs you can be ratting in lowsec no problem at all if you follow a sensible (and easily found) skill queue.

If 500,000isk frigates are too expensive for you, Im not sure what you are doing wring, especially as many of them are free, as are destroyers, mining figs and industrial haulers.

Basically, there is nothing that you cannot do if you put your mind to it, and so I will give you the knowledge limitation. So you go out there and learn

TL:DR; If learning new things and reading new stuff and using your brain to work around problems is something that you avoid in Real LIfe, then EvE is not for you

some explorers will end up stealing your loot

If you never played World of Warcraft before, then if you were looking for a game, would you try it now after it has had it moment in the sun?

Welp, that's stroke #4 I've had caused by clicking the like button, check your EVEmail tomorrow for the bill to my obamacare premiums that are now sky high.

It has almost nothing to do with NPC AI. And you are incorrect, it has changed a lot in the last 6 years that i have been playing.

It has to do with the fact that the game has real loss, it has to do with the fact that they try to release an expansion every 6 months but it is usually just a patch, and it has to do with the terrible representation of the player base.

I would agree it also has alot to do with real loss. Other mmo's when you die you respawn with all your stuff. I dont care how much isk you have if you loose a 5 billion isk ship it still puts that knot in you stomach.

Gû¼Gû¼Gû¦ Features & Ideas Discussion
FuryBotGäó 0.86

So... time... as you mentioned before.

And yes, two hours would be the minimum playtime at least every few days if not more often that you would need to put into an MMORPG of EvE's calibre to get anything approximating the most out of it.

And even then Id say its nothing like enough.

As for low SP and Isk, well those are hardly barriers in your way. Within 48hrs you can be ratting in lowsec no problem at all if you follow a sensible (and easily found) skill queue.

If 500,000isk frigates are too expensive for you, Im not sure what you are doing wring, especially as many of them are free, as are destroyers, mining figs and industrial haulers.

Basically, there is nothing that you cannot do if you put your mind to it, and so I will give you the knowledge limitation. So you go out there and learn

TL:DR; If learning new things and reading new stuff and using your brain to work around problems is something that you avoid in Real LIfe, then EvE is not for you

Also, have you seen how old this toon is? For at least 3/4ths of my life I havent trained any skills.

I wonder if anyone stopped playing when I ran away with "his" 500M worth module.

I wonder if anyone stopped playing when I ran away with "his" 500M worth module.

Once again not saying anything is broken or needs changing just answering why more people don't play

Ok, but you are painting it negatively in that regard.

I like the fact its not insta-anything

The day it becaomes like WoW in any way shape or form is the day I unscrub er I mean unsub

they forgot something about new players... one in a million goes directly to VFK and kills a goon... just saying

I agree, if i wanted wow I would simply just play wow.

It is a negative experience for most new players but as i also mentioned there is no way to change that without fubar'ing everything that makes eve great.

As soon as I learn how to respawn, I'd be happy to go on that raid.

seriously i think i made one person out of the game.....
killed his retriever (about 40 milloion ISK)
got bounty to my head about 300million with non-round numbers.... (i'm pretty sure he dropped all his money to it)

and never seen him again

It is hard for existing players to understand the fragility of a new player, It is really hard getting going, so much to think about, so many concerns.
Each time he logs on he wonders whether he made the right choice and whether this game is for him.
He makes the smallest mistake, or even no mistake at all, just the wrong place, wrong time, and his whole weeks gains and efforts are wiped out in a flash.
He thought he was doing ok, everyone said EvE is hard, and he thinks " why am I paying for this?"

So he doesn't any more.

Simple Isn't it.
I persisted, I survived and hung on and I am glad I did. I Doing more, an hopefully I am getting better at what I do. I moved on to another corp and different things, and look back with sadness.
Many didn't, Of those I started with in the corp I was In there is Just 1 left there and he plays alone.
Guess why EVERY one left.

Or it just wasn't the game for him. Me, I was ganked in hisec 3 weeks in. Lost my Venture and my pod full of 40mil of free implants CCP gave me for paying real money for the game. It was that day I knew this was the game for me. That internet pixels could actually have meaning. Where losing a fight actually meant losing something besides the time it takes to get back from the spawn point.

Now take eve
If i want to pvp i have to fit a ship (which is limited by my skills and isk) then make several jumps out to low sec where i will probably get instantly baptised by a gang of 6 guys
If i want to team up with my buddy, once again i need to fit a ship make 20+ jumps through high sec and hope i have the proper skills to allow me to do the activity he wants.
If i want to run an incursion or a high level wh i need to find a fleet of trust worthy people and be skilled out the ass.

The NPE is indeed pushing players towards mining and missions I think,

PVE combat in MMO is always shite. At least in EVE you aren't stuck in a canned animation looking like your dancing to the hoolah with lights flashing out of your butt.

I don't think the lack of PVE is what makes EVE unpopular. I believe it's mostly related to the harshness of the EVE player base. If you ask a random player what they think about EVE, they will usually respond with:
1) Incredibly intense and serious game
2) Populated by equally intense and serious douchebags.

Its entirely possible for players to create their own missions for others to play

Of course, they arent gankproof

Oh wait thats a mission

Content generation

Im just typing random words now

Sphincter

A recent Jester's Trek ...

I got a tingly feeling when you said that

I don't think the lack of PVE is what makes EVE unpopular.

A recent Jester's Trek article on EN24 http://evenews24.com/2014/05/10/jesters-trek-the-seven-percent-solution/ discusses CCP's concerns with the New Player Experience and suggests that some of the guys at CCP have been struggling to understand why Eve isn't more popular.

PvE in Eve is shite.

Another thing that was mentioned in the article was that most players who play Eve leave almost immediately, of those that don't most play entirely solo for a while and then leave later, and that very few engage with other players at all, but the one that do engage with other players tend to be the ones that stay.

Bubble wrap new players

Needs to be more reward and less risk when joining a corp, for all parties.

Despite the whines and bleats of HTFU from the ass-hat brigade, the risk of awox and other sorts of douchebaggery are not healthy for the new player experience.

Corps, and new players, need a safety valve, a way to join a corp under probationary circumstances. A "probate" flag if you will. When that flag is applied to a corp member, they suffer the same penalties of sec status loss and concord as a non-corp member when aggressing any other corp member, except when one probate shoots at another probate in the same corp.

If an existing corp member does not have "probate" flag on himself, he also can not aggress probates with out consequence.

Any corp member, who does not have the flag, can set the flag on them selves, but only directors can remove it.

New players need people to reach out to them in helpful ways. Not scam them or cause them distress. They need time to acclimate to Eve. I think a lot of people forget this.

Why do you think I go to the trouble of stamping out highsec corps? The less "you can't" a new player hears from all these people, the better the game is overall.

Well, I'm not one of those people that says "you can't." I don't personally know anyone who says this. I've only ever seen it said in the forums as anecdotal evidence. (Not saying it doesn't really happen.)

Let's try this from another approach...

If you never played World of Warcraft before, then if you were looking for a game, would you try it now after it has had it moment in the sun?

How about EverQuest or EverQuest II? I'm pretty sure Sony has some servers running them still.

Or go back further - Ultima Online!

People are not prone to jump into an established game with a long history. People rather be on the ground floor of something new, not following in the footsteps of thousands of players before them. Plus without checking out ads from ten years ago, I am pretty sure Eve was touted as shooting ships apart, Current ads have a similar feel. Anybody might feel the game has not progressed beyond that.

Just a thought.

Nope.

Bubble wrapping new players just makes the inevitable fall all the harder. The drop off will still be there. It's also thoroughly open to abuse by veterans, so you're running into Malcanis' Law into the bargain.

[edit: Oh, and what you're describing already exists. They're called NPC corps.

The only risks to joining corps that are unique is that of hisec corps. In every other area of space your corpmate can kill you, kill, each other, kill blues, randoms on the gate with no omnipotent NPC space police to save them. Corps in lowsec, nullsec, and wormhole space deal with this every day. Some how they manage to take in newbies and grow. What makes hisec corps so special that they need some sort of extra protection beyond the huge protections over all other space they already have?

Already easily accomplished with a shared chat channel or even a rookie corp in an alliance.

And how many noobs players run straight off into null, low and WH space?

The 'Gecko Race' is empirical proof that EVE players prefer to PVE.

Any that have been taught properly by good CEOs, tbh.

Hell theres one in my Alliance that was ratting in 0.3 within 3 weeks of starting without his CEO telling him how

a Few instances of anecdotal evidence, that are contrary to the demographic evidence, shown year after year in the QENs, sadly no longer published, does not constitute proof.

A few instances of anecdotal evidence, that are contrary to the demographic evidence, shown year after year in the QENs, sadly no longer published, do not constitute proof.

Not casual friendly:

You can play EVE casually, but it doesn't mainly cater to them and they're the large mass. They want easy access to content, to play their way without unwanted interference from others and don't like to suffer meaningful setbacks. Access to EVE content can be hard. It's not clear what is available or where you find it. Even when you do it an be likely to cause you setbacks or require long skilling to start doing.

Why do PvP and PvE have to be different things? I don't drive to work in the morning and say oh I'd better not get into a crash because this isn't my PvP car. It's stupid.

I think it's CCP:Seagull who said a little while ago that part of the long range vision is for the distinction between pve & pvp fits to disappear


By a little while ago, I mean about a year(ish)


I thought it was a good idea then, I still do now.
Sadly I'm still waiting to see it happen

Why do PvP and PvE have to be different things? I don't drive to work in the morning and say oh I'd better not get into a crash because this isn't my PvP car. It's stupid.

you're thinking about it wrong.

"PvE Fit" car is comfortable, airbags, cupholders, radio, a/c, power everything, automatic transmission ... etc.

"PvP Fit" car is not so comfortable (stripped down interior, racing seat/harness), no radio, a/c, power anything, standard transmission ... and is then tweaked to get the most performance possible out of the parts.

, there is no gold armor to put on the ships and parade in Jita to let everyone see how PG you are

au contraire

Implant + Pod = Shiny Goldness



also aren't paid for ship-skins now a thing ?

That is actually a surprisingly fitting analogy.

Inertia.

Just think about how much work it would be to change every mission in the game to be a proper PvP-like experience and how many tops would be blown by people who'd no longer be able to just warp in with their battleship, F1 everything in sight, and casually collect cashGǪ

That doesn't mean they cannot design new missions from new agents that function like the desired pvp/pve blend.

It's one thing to have an opinion and another thing entirely to shiptoast.

Not everyone wants to have everything they work for ripped off, stolen, scammed or blown up. To top it off almost EVERY change to the game is made by CCP to DRIVE players out of High Sec.

1 Taking Asteroid belts out of systems like Juunigaish and Suroken years ago ????
2 Now Removing the ICE BELTS and making them 20 rocks twice a day.
3 Took away "Loot" and replaced it with CRAP "scrap metal"
4 Took away "Drone ores" now drones drop nothing
5 Took away the static complexes and gave us pop-ups that disappear
The list goes on and on of the little fun things players did that no longer exist for no REAL reason.

I don't see how that makes sense.

It's more the other way round, but with combat fittings still being the one who perform much better.


Non-combat fittings are automatic cars for people who are unable to apply thought to what they are doing,
with crappy performance. How you can see luxury items in such crap is beyond me.

The thing is, it's all very well to pat ourselves on the back and go all self-congratulatorily Darwinian on the problem, but that doesn't help CCP very much.

help CCP

1 Yeah cos no other systems have ore in them

Took away "Loot" and replaced it with CRAP "scrap metal".

3 What loot was removed and replaced with this free tritanium?

Took away the static complexes and gave us pop-ups that disappear

5 Disappear and respawn much more quickly than previously. Is it a problem that you cant camp a system waiting for the same rats to respawn at your static? Is using your exploration skills that difficult for you?

There are no static complexes is the problem, again because CCP took them out of the game to manage where they spawn and therefore where we play and live.

They also implemented partial asteroid respawns at down times....we originally got entire capacity belts replenished at downtime now you get "Base belts" and they get bigger over time (Grow) if they aren't mined each day...like that will happen in high sec. this minipulated the amount available to be mined in systems. Forcing miners to move.