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Here is why apoc is better with autocannons than with mega pulses

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Sniser	Posted - 2006.06.03 00:47:00 - [1] i will bring the data from quickfit also i used max skills for everything except adv weapon gunnery is 4 Apocalypse with mega pulse t2 SHIP'S ATTRIBUTES : ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Powergrid : 22938.0 / 25593.75 MW CPU : 615.5 / 625.0 tf Capacitor (regen) : 7875.0 Energy (519.9sec) Max Cap Regen : 37.11 per sec (approx.) Max Cap Needed : 94.184 per sec Velocity : 143.75 m/sec Signature : 400.0 m Target Range : 67500.0 m Scan Resolution : 114.0 mm ECCM Radar : 20.0 points Shield HP (regen) : 5217.45 (1830.0sec) Max Shield Regen : 7.13 per sec (approx.) Shield EM : 0.0 % Shield Explo : 60.0 % Shield Kinetic : 40.0 % Shield Thermal : 20.0 % Armor HP : 7500.0 Armor EM : 68.0 % Armor Explo : 68.0 % Armor Kinetic : 70.0 % Armor Thermal : 74.0 % Structure HP : 6641.25 Drone Capacity : 75.0 m3 Capacity : 0.0 Warp Max Distance : 530.8 AU Mega Pulse Laser II [1xMultifrequency L] Mega Pulse Laser II [1xMultifrequency L] Mega Pulse Laser II [1xMultifrequency L] Mega Pulse Laser II [1xMultifrequency L] Mega Pulse Laser II [1xMultifrequency L] Mega Pulse Laser II [1xMultifrequency L] Heavy Diminishing Power System Drain I Turret Slot / Launcher Slot <--- here i have an empty slot since im out cpu for another gun or nos Fleeting Warp Scrambler I Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I Heavy Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I Eutectic I Capacitor Charge Array N-Type Thermic Hardener I N-Type Kinetic Hardener I N-Type Explosive Hardener I Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Large 'Accommodation' Vestment Reconstructer I Large 'Accommodation' Vestment Reconstructer I Power Diagnostic System II <--- here i needed use it because nos wouldnt fit without it 5217 shield, 7.13/s, E/T/K/Ex=0/20/40/60 7500 armor, E/T/K/Ex=68/74/70/68 7560.0 cap, +35.63/s, -94.184/s <--- wow thats cool ;) 143.75 m/s Damage per second on Structure : 289.143 (0.0 taking accuracy into account) ------------------------------------------- Apocalypse with autocannons t2 SHIP'S ATTRIBUTES : ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Powergrid : 19467.0 / 24375.0 MW CPU : 621.0 / 625.0 tf Capacitor (regen) : 7500.0 Energy (568.2sec) Max Cap Regen : 32.34 per sec (approx.) Max Cap Needed : 78.311 per sec Velocity : 143.75 m/sec Signature : 400.0 m Target Range : 67500.0 m Scan Resolution : 114.0 mm ECCM Radar : 20.0 points Shield HP (regen) : 4969.0 (2000.0sec) Max Shield Regen : 6.21 per sec (approx.) Shield EM : 0.0 % Shield Explo : 60.0 % Shield Kinetic : 40.0 % Shield Thermal : 20.0 % Armor HP : 7500.0 Armor EM : 68.0 % Armor Explo : 68.0 % Armor Kinetic : 70.0 % Armor Thermal : 74.0 % Structure HP : 6641.25 Drone Capacity : 75.0 m3 Capacity : 0.0 Warp Max Distance : 505.6 AU Dual 650mm Repeating Artillery II [80xEMP L] Dual 650mm Repeating Artillery II [80xEMP L] Dual 650mm Repeating Artillery II [80xEMP L] Dual 650mm Repeating Artillery II [80xEMP L] Dual 650mm Repeating Artillery II [80xEMP L] Dual 650mm Repeating Artillery II [80xEMP L] Heavy Diminishing Power System Drain I Heavy Diminishing Power System Drain I <--- wow now i won another nos ! Fleeting Warp Scrambler I Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I Heavy Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I Eutectic I Capacitor Charge Array N-Type Thermic Hardener I N-Type Kinetic Hardener I N-Type Explosive Hardener I Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Gyrostabilizer II <---- nice i dont need put the pdu so i win dps here Large Armor Repairer II <--- check this now i can use 2 large t2 instead the top named now i do much better tank Large Armor Repairer II 4969 shield, 6.21/s, E/T/K/Ex=0/20/40/60 7500 armor, E/T/K/Ex=68/74/70/68 7500.0 cap, +32.34/s, -78.311/s <-- wow now i use a lot less cap instead -94.184/s 143.75 m/s and well if i try use ammo T2 the difference is much much greater Damage per second on Structure : 278.644 (0.0 taking accuracy into account) i lose 10.5dps but i won a lot cap/tank also another nos
Aeaus	Posted - 2006.06.03 00:50:00 - [2] Edited by: Aeaus on 03/06/2006 00:54:36 What kind of ----ing proof is this if you're fitting the weakest Projectiles and Strongest Lasers while not fitting a full rack? ((3.6 * 1.25 * 1.1 * 1.15) / (7.88 * .9 * .8)) * 48 * 6 = 288.95 ((3.6 * 1.25 * 1.1 * 1.15) / (7.88 * .9 * .8)) * 44 * 6 = 226.875 My Guides (Recomended Reading)
Sniser	Posted - 2006.06.03 00:53:00 - [3] if you have less than Bs5 then the difference is much greater
Aeaus	Posted - 2006.06.03 00:57:00 - [4] Your setups suck more then a (censored). I mean, you could actually fit "Dual Heavy Pulse Lasers" which use less resources, less capacitor, don't force you to use nosferatus, etc, etc... ((2.4 * 1.25 * 1.1 * 1.15) / (6.08 * .9 * .8)) * 48 * 8 = 332.9 And I'm sure you can make a better fit given some time, a PDU on an Apocalypse, DUR DUR DURRR My Guides (Recomended Reading)
Sniser	Posted - 2006.06.03 01:21:00 - [5] Edited by: Sniser on 03/06/2006 01:21:32 Originally by: Aeaus Your setups suck more then a (censored). I mean, you could actually fit "Dual Heavy Pulse Lasers" which use less resources, less capacitor, don't force you to use nosferatus, etc, etc... ((2.4 * 1.25 * 1.1 * 1.15) / (6.08 * .9 * .8)) * 48 * 8 = 332.9 And I'm sure you can make a better fit given some time, a PDU on an Apocalypse, DUR DUR DURRR thats great, yes we put 8 dual pulse laser (first i lose the ability to self defense vs hacs inty, also i lose the ability to counter another nos also attack enemy cap bs second, lets put data. you are saying dual pulse use less cap, ok lets look it with your 8 dual pulse Apocalypse with dual pulse t2 SHIP'S ATTRIBUTES : ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Powergrid : 18202.0 / 24375.0 MW <-- a ton of pg now free CPU : 625.0 / 625.0 tf <-- no cpu Capacitor (regen) : 7500.0 Energy (426.15sec) Max Cap Regen : 43.12 per sec (approx.) Max Cap Needed : 96.358 per sec Velocity : 143.75 m/sec Signature : 400.0 m Target Range : 67500.0 m Scan Resolution : 114.0 mm ECCM Radar : 20.0 points Shield HP (regen) : 4969.0 (2000.0sec) Max Shield Regen : 6.21 per sec (approx.) Shield EM : 0.0 % Shield Explo : 60.0 % Shield Kinetic : 40.0 % Shield Thermal : 20.0 % Armor HP : 7500.0 Armor EM : 68.0 % Armor Explo : 71.2 % Armor Kinetic : 73.0 % Armor Thermal : 76.6 % Structure HP : 6641.25 Drone Capacity : 75.0 m3 Capacity : 0.0 Warp Max Distance : 505.6 AU Dual Heavy Pulse Laser II [1xMultifrequency L] Dual Heavy Pulse Laser II [1xMultifrequency L] Dual Heavy Pulse Laser II [1xMultifrequency L] Dual Heavy Pulse Laser II [1xMultifrequency L] Dual Heavy Pulse Laser II [1xMultifrequency L] Dual Heavy Pulse Laser II [1xMultifrequency L] Dual Heavy Pulse Laser II [1xMultifrequency L] Dual Heavy Pulse Laser II [1xMultifrequency L] Fleeting Warp Scrambler I Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I Heavy Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I Eutectic I Capacitor Charge Array Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Large 'Accommodation' Vestment Reconstructer I Capacitor Power Relay II <-- more cap Armor Explosive Hardener II Armor Thermic Hardener II Armor Kinetic Hardener II Large Armor Repairer II <-- we won the large t2 also hards t2 but the difference between resist is only at mas 2-3%, we could get t2 large repair and dont the hards to t1(and loss the resists) 4969 shield, 6.21/s, E/T/K/Ex=0/20/40/60 7500 armor, E/T/K/Ex=68/76/73/71 7500.0 cap, +43.12/s, -96.358/s <--- thats nice now i regen 6 cap more/s but i waste 1/s cap more 143.75 m/s Damage per second on Structure : 333.169 (0.0 taking accuracy into account) yea we improved the dps but we are wasting more cap at this moment. Also we get less cap because we arent nosfing(boh less tank) , also we now cant counter the nos from another ship also we cant defend from a hac, inty etc also we cant hurt the cap of another bs because now we lost 2 nosferatu, thats sooooooo great! thanks you , "your" setups its so cool ;) i really would love some of your really setups if the mine are so worse ;) if we have to chose what do you want? 47dps or 16cap/s(with bs max5) plus 2 nosfe with 120cap every 12s, thats 10cap/sx2 36cap/s also nosfing ppl also i could use too 8 autocannons if i would but i think nosfe are much better. Also i did that because 8 mega pulse doesnt fit and i wanted compare equal number of turrets im not saying projectiles are wrong , oh my god no! im saying laser are wrong thats why
LWMaverick	Posted - 2006.06.03 01:47:00 - [6] CPR 2's are not ingame... Poverty
Stamm	Posted - 2006.06.03 01:49:00 - [7] Setups aren't that convincing. I suspect a better laser setup could have been done. Try dual heavies instead of fitting mods.
Sniser	Posted - 2006.06.03 01:50:00 - [8] Originally by: LWMaverick CPR 2's are not ingame... well its 4 am here cpr2 and cpr1 are one near other in quickfit
Sniser	Posted - 2006.06.03 01:51:00 - [9] Originally by: Stamm Setups aren't that convincing. I suspect a better laser setup could have been done. Try dual heavies instead of fitting mods. please show me a better setup :)
Aeaus	Posted - 2006.06.03 01:51:00 - [10] Edited by: Aeaus on 03/06/2006 01:51:20 You are using a tool with no understanding of the game, it is only my opinion of course, but none of your setups are very useful. Like for example, if you downgrade to Dual heavy Pulse, even if you use six you suddenly don't need to have a PDS, oh let's replace that with a heat sink II =/ Oh look we lost 7% damage due to a gun switch and we won, 23% more damage from the Heat Sink. Gee, now we can also probably use two dual heavy nosferatus. My Guides (Recomended Reading)
Stamm	Posted - 2006.06.03 02:01:00 - [11] Originally by: Sniser Originally by: Stamm Setups aren't that convincing. I suspect a better laser setup could have been done. Try dual heavies instead of fitting mods. please show me a better setup :) Too late at night to fire up quickfit change skills etc. But you will get higher DPS by dropping the fitting mod, going for a damage mod and switching to a mix of megas and dual heavies that fit.
Sniser	Posted - 2006.06.03 02:01:00 - [12] Edited by: Sniser on 03/06/2006 02:01:38 Originally by: Aeaus Edited by: Aeaus on 03/06/2006 01:51:20 You are using a tool with no understanding of the game, it is only my opinion of course, but none of your setups are very useful. Like for example, if you downgrade to Dual heavy Pulse, even if you use six you suddenly don't need to have a PDS, oh let's replace that with a heat sink II =/ Oh look we lost 7% damage due to a gun switch and we won, 23% more damage from the Heat Sink. Gee, now we can also probably use two dual heavy nosferatus. you told me 8 guns and i fitted 8 guns, yes add the heat sink t2 and get 2 nosfe now with 6 dual guns and 2 nosfe Damage per second on Structure : 307.09 (0.0 taking accuracy into account) nice we have now 29dps more than my autocannon projectile but i still wasting 14cap/s more, without count you would be using 2 large top named armor and i would be using 2 t2 large which repair a lot more than top named. also you are trying show me i cant fit better pulse weapons on any amarr ships? since omen maller cant also punisher cant fit them apoc cant too? its so nice
Sniser	Posted - 2006.06.03 02:03:00 - [13] Originally by: Stamm Originally by: Sniser Originally by: Stamm Setups aren't that convincing. I suspect a better laser setup could have been done. Try dual heavies instead of fitting mods. please show me a better setup :) Too late at night to fire up quickfit change skills etc. But you will get higher DPS by dropping the fitting mod, going for a damage mod and switching to a mix of megas and dual heavies that fit. nice lets to get different range weapons from mix fitting megas/duals. cool now i hit with some weapons and not with the others.. really who is doing the bad setup?
Stamm	Posted - 2006.06.03 02:05:00 - [14] Originally by: Sniser Originally by: Stamm Originally by: Sniser Originally by: Stamm Setups aren't that convincing. I suspect a better laser setup could have been done. Try dual heavies instead of fitting mods. please show me a better setup :) Too late at night to fire up quickfit change skills etc. But you will get higher DPS by dropping the fitting mod, going for a damage mod and switching to a mix of megas and dual heavies that fit. nice lets to get different range weapons from mix fitting megas/duals. cool now i hit with some weapons and not with the others.. really who is doing the bad setup? The optimals and falloffs are similar enough.
Sniser	Posted - 2006.06.03 02:09:00 - [15] Edited by: Sniser on 03/06/2006 02:10:50 Edited by: Sniser on 03/06/2006 02:09:53 Originally by: Stamm Originally by: Sniser Originally by: Stamm Originally by: Sniser Originally by: Stamm Setups aren't that convincing. I suspect a better laser setup could have been done. Try dual heavies instead of fitting mods. please show me a better setup :) Too late at night to fire up quickfit change skills etc. But you will get higher DPS by dropping the fitting mod, going for a damage mod and switching to a mix of megas and dual heavies that fit. nice lets to get different range weapons from mix fitting megas/duals. cool now i hit with some weapons and not with the others.. really who is doing the bad setup? The optimals and falloffs are similar enough. can you tell me which others ships do that? im looking in fitting thread in forum and i cant find any ship doing that mix http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=333309
Tiuwaz	Posted - 2006.06.03 02:12:00 - [16] 1) use rcuII, with that you even might be able to fit a 2nd nos, atleast you can improve some other stuff 2) if you wanna make a point how better you can fit stuff with using ac's then use atleast the same tiers, namely 800's for ac's in this case 3) if you just want to compare working setups, well then i dont know how its for megapulses but an ac setup without ab or or mwd is just bad Originally by: Oveur This is not the conspiracy you are looking for.
Aeaus	Posted - 2006.06.03 02:14:00 - [17] I'd like to see you get your Apoc somewhat close into optimal quickly. Because otherwise... Dual Heavy Pulse = 26.25 km Optimal Dual 650mm = 24.5 km [100% Fall Off] Lasers are much more versitile on this slow ship. My Guides (Recomended Reading)
Sniser	Posted - 2006.06.03 02:23:00 - [18] i can use 800mm but.. its much worse for pulses ;) also 3km optimal+20km falloff well i think its enough to hit around 15km(pulses are giving that or even less with dual) and i can use t2 ammo ( i really dont care about speed if the other is using mdw he will catch me and if its a cruiser , frig, inty will out run me ) Apocalypse with 800mm t2 Heavy Diminishing Power System Drain I Heavy Diminishing Power System Drain I 800mm Repeating Artillery II [40xEMP L] 800mm Repeating Artillery II [40xEMP L] 800mm Repeating Artillery II [40xEMP L] 800mm Repeating Artillery II [40xEMP L] 800mm Repeating Artillery II [40xEMP L] 800mm Repeating Artillery II [40xEMP L] Fleeting Warp Scrambler I Heavy Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I Eutectic I Capacitor Charge Array X5 Prototype I Engine Enervator N-Type Thermic Hardener I N-Type Kinetic Hardener I N-Type Explosive Hardener I Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Gyrostabilizer II Large Armor Repairer II Large 'Accommodation' Vestment Reconstructer I <-- i losted the t2 4969 shield, 6.21/s, E/T/K/Ex=0/20/40/60 7500 armor, E/T/K/Ex=68/74/70/68 7500.0 cap, +32.34/s, -78.311/s <-- the cap 143.75 m/s Damage per second on Structure : 292.621 (0.0 taking accuracy into account) i won now a lot more dps than before and now its very near the damage from using dual pulse and i still using a lot less cap
Tiuwaz	Posted - 2006.06.03 02:25:00 - [19] Edited by: Tiuwaz on 03/06/2006 02:25:59 an ac setup without ab or mwd is still crap (mwd kinda necessary if its for pvp) Originally by: Oveur This is not the conspiracy you are looking for.
Kaylana Syi	Posted - 2006.06.03 02:26:00 - [20] Originally by: Aeaus I'd like to see you get your Apoc somewhat close into optimal quickly. Because otherwise... Dual Heavy Pulse = 26.25 km Optimal Dual 650mm = 24.5 km [100% Fall Off] Lasers are much more versitile on this slow ship. Yep... the apoc is a horrible AC platform because it has NO speed to engage with guns that need speed. Another useless thread. Originally by: "Oveur" I don't react to threats any better than you do
Sniser	Posted - 2006.06.03 02:34:00 - [21] Originally by: Aeaus I'd like to see you get your Apoc somewhat close into optimal quickly. Because otherwise... Dual Heavy Pulse = 26.25 km Optimal Dual 650mm = 24.5 km [100% Fall Off] Lasers are much more versitile on this slow ship. try those numbers with MF and EMP ammo, i though range reduction ohh mf get dual heavy pulse to 23.125km but lets watch autocannon.. damn they still have the 20km falloff bonus only lost the 4.5km in optimal (now its 2.25km)
Sniser	Posted - 2006.06.03 02:35:00 - [22] Originally by: Tiuwaz Edited by: Tiuwaz on 03/06/2006 02:25:59 an ac setup without ab or mwd is still crap (mwd kinda necessary if its for pvp) i can fit it but i will lose the heavy cap for tank, thats really i think doesnt matter about fitting weapons
Sniser	Posted - 2006.06.03 02:39:00 - [23] Originally by: Kaylana Syi Originally by: Aeaus I'd like to see you get your Apoc somewhat close into optimal quickly. Because otherwise... Dual Heavy Pulse = 26.25 km Optimal Dual 650mm = 24.5 km [100% Fall Off] Lasers are much more versitile on this slow ship. Yep... the apoc is a horrible AC platform because it has NO speed to engage with guns that need speed. Another useless thread. you forgot EMP 50% range bonus doesnt affect nearly to the autocannon optimal but it hurt a lot in pulses , another useless flame reply from you
Aeaus	Posted - 2006.06.03 02:40:00 - [24] Originally by: Sniser Originally by: Tiuwaz Edited by: Tiuwaz on 03/06/2006 02:25:59 an ac setup without ab or mwd is still crap (mwd kinda necessary if its for pvp) i can fit it but i will lose the heavy cap for tank, thats really i think doesnt matter about fitting weapons Yes, because combat isn't about feasible setups it's all about weapons... You know what, TACHs would have incredible damage, but they're not really worth comparing are they =/ My Guides (Recomended Reading)
Sniser	Posted - 2006.06.03 02:47:00 - [25] Originally by: Aeaus Originally by: Sniser Originally by: Tiuwaz Edited by: Tiuwaz on 03/06/2006 02:25:59 an ac setup without ab or mwd is still crap (mwd kinda necessary if its for pvp) i can fit it but i will lose the heavy cap for tank, thats really i think doesnt matter about fitting weapons Yes, because combat isn't about feasible setups it's all about weapons... You know what, TACHs would have incredible damage, but they're not really worth comparing are they =/ we are speaking about short rang and second to even try fit taychs you need 2 rcu t2, that doesnt count right? i was speaking about cap booster over mdw because with 3km optimal + 20km falloff will give me around 15km-17km good damage also i would still hitting them even if they are at 20km(more than 20km = warp ), cap booster gives me tank, and time to use my uber cap also use my 2 nosferatus. i really dont need be in optimal to do uber 300dps, i would need it if i was doing 700dps with little tank
OrangeAfroMan	Posted - 2006.06.03 02:58:00 - [26] Originally by: Sniser i can use 800mm but.. its much worse for pulses ;) also 3km optimal+20km falloff well i think its enough to hit around 15km(pulses are giving that or even less with dual) and i can use t2 ammo ( i really dont care about speed if the other is using mdw he will catch me and if its a cruiser , frig, inty will out run me ) Apocalypse with 800mm t2 Heavy Diminishing Power System Drain I Heavy Diminishing Power System Drain I 800mm Repeating Artillery II [40xEMP L] 800mm Repeating Artillery II [40xEMP L] 800mm Repeating Artillery II [40xEMP L] 800mm Repeating Artillery II [40xEMP L] 800mm Repeating Artillery II [40xEMP L] 800mm Repeating Artillery II [40xEMP L] Fleeting Warp Scrambler I Heavy Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I Eutectic I Capacitor Charge Array X5 Prototype I Engine Enervator N-Type Thermic Hardener I N-Type Kinetic Hardener I N-Type Explosive Hardener I Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Gyrostabilizer II Large Armor Repairer II Large 'Accommodation' Vestment Reconstructer I <-- i losted the t2 4969 shield, 6.21/s, E/T/K/Ex=0/20/40/60 7500 armor, E/T/K/Ex=68/74/70/68 7500.0 cap, +32.34/s, -78.311/s <-- the cap 143.75 m/s Damage per second on Structure : 292.621 (0.0 taking accuracy into account) i won now a lot more dps than before and now its very near the damage from using dual pulse and i still using a lot less cap You might also add in the 50% larger clipsize going in for 800mms :) OP wins thread.... other guy needs to post actual setups and explain them instead of saying "this is better." Gronsak is Tux's angry alt.
MrFu	Posted - 2006.06.03 03:22:00 - [27] Get a tempest,you noob :P
Sniser	Posted - 2006.06.03 03:40:00 - [28] Originally by: MrFu Get a tempest,you noob :P lol later i will travel to north with my uber apocpest bs :P
Toille	Posted - 2006.06.03 04:06:00 - [29] High Slots (8 Slots) - Mega Pulse Laser II - w. Conflagration L - Mega Pulse Laser II - w. Conflagration L - Mega Pulse Laser II - w. Conflagration L - Mega Pulse Laser II - w. Conflagration L - Mega Pulse Laser II - w. Conflagration L - Mega Pulse Laser II - w. Conflagration L - Mega Pulse Laser II - w. Conflagration L - Mega Pulse Laser II - w. Conflagration L Mid Slots (4 Slots) - Domination Stasis Webifier - Gist X-Type 100MN Afterburner - Cap Recharger II - Cap Recharger II Low Slots (8 Slots) - Centus X-Type Large Armor Repairer - Armor Hardener II - Armor Hardener II - Armor Hardener II - Dark Blood Heat Sink - Dark Blood Heat Sink - Dark Blood Capacitor Power Relay - True Sansha Capacitor Power Relay
Semaj Valencia	Posted - 2006.06.03 04:22:00 - [30] You took out the warp scrambler and put in an afterburner? I thought this was a pvp comparison.

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