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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 3 post(s) |

Acac Sunflyier
Passages Malibu
664
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Posted - 2014.05.29 02:32:00 -
[1] - Quote
So, is Valkyrie going to be the fighters from the carriers that get launched from carriers in eve and fly down to planets to fight the dust people? |

eug3nio Anninen
Dark Midgard
0
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Posted - 2014.07.30 13:24:00 -
[2] - Quote
Acac Sunflyier wrote:So, is Valkyrie going to be the fighters from the carriers that get launched from carriers in eve and fly down to planets to fight the dust people?
probably nothing of this gonna happen if CCP doesn't unify for real the 3 games ,.....
eug3nio |

RAIN Arthie
The Ascended Fleet Intrepid Crossing
378
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Posted - 2014.08.03 12:39:00 -
[3] - Quote
CCP needs to get their heads in the game if they want anything to take off. They need to unite the 3 games making them reliant on eachother. |

Aerios Spiritus
WolfPack.
0
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Posted - 2014.08.05 01:25:00 -
[4] - Quote
The only thing CCP will have trouble against is EVE Players who don't want their stations or possibly ships being boarded by Dust Mercs. Or maybe mercs being able to destroy capitals from anti orbital weaponry. or Valkyrie pilots going around killing peoples drones, fighters and fighter bombers. |

Sentamon
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
2068
|
Posted - 2014.08.11 05:53:00 -
[5] - Quote
Aerios Spiritus wrote:The only thing CCP will have trouble against is EVE Players who don't want their stations or possibly ships being boarded by Dust Mercs. Or maybe mercs being able to destroy capitals from anti orbital weaponry. or Valkyrie pilots going around killing peoples drones, fighters and fighter bombers.
Yeah of course this will happen, and by listening to these people the other 2 games will never really take off.
There need to be meaningful connections between these 3 and Legion for it all to work. ~ Professional Forum Alt -á~ |

mr roadkill
Mystery Incorporated
20
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Posted - 2014.09.02 19:18:00 -
[6] - Quote
Aerios Spiritus wrote:The only thing CCP will have trouble against is EVE Players who don't want their stations or possibly ships being boarded by Dust Mercs. Or maybe mercs being able to destroy capitals from anti orbital weaponry. or Valkyrie pilots going around killing peoples drones, fighters and fighter bombers.
I dont agree with my ships being boarded by mercs but using mercs to take over stations and structures i like the sounds of as it fits into conquering a system. I don't want to be flying round in my ship and suddenly be told sorry you are dead due to merc infestation. |

DaReaper
Net 7 The Last Brigade
884
|
Posted - 2014.09.02 21:32:00 -
[7] - Quote
Aerios Spiritus wrote:The only thing CCP will have trouble against is EVE Players who don't want their stations or possibly ships being boarded by Dust Mercs. Or maybe mercs being able to destroy capitals from anti orbital weaponry. or Valkyrie pilots going around killing peoples drones, fighters and fighter bombers.
actually we want mercs to do that to stations. the issue is ccp gave us dust and said 'care about them they do stuff' and we asked why? dust added nothing to eve. if its not linked, then don't advertise it as linked.
Valk won't be linked, not at first, maybe never, and i'm ok with that. Different type of game play OMG Comet Mining idea!!! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=331766 |

Nightlund Audeles
Waves of Aegir Novaku Alliance
91
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Posted - 2014.09.04 04:29:00 -
[8] - Quote
mr roadkill wrote:Aerios Spiritus wrote:The only thing CCP will have trouble against is EVE Players who don't want their stations or possibly ships being boarded by Dust Mercs. Or maybe mercs being able to destroy capitals from anti orbital weaponry. or Valkyrie pilots going around killing peoples drones, fighters and fighter bombers. I dont agree with my ships being boarded by mercs but using mercs to take over stations and structures i like the sounds of as it fits into conquering a system. I don't want to be flying round in my ship and suddenly be told sorry you are dead due to merc infestation.
Hire your own mercs to fight the ones that come aboard your ship. Simple. |

Arline Kley
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
374
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Posted - 2014.09.04 09:07:00 -
[9] - Quote
You could have it unified, yet still seperate, in the following way:
EVE: A large null sec alliance is currently in the process of taking over a system from a rival. Captial ships have been deployed, and fighters have been launched around an outpost station.
This leads to the following "events":
Valkyrie: A battle lights up in a null sec system for the pilots of those alliances that a fight is taking place in that sector and that they have been scrambled to deal with it. The assualting force is also carrying drop ships filled with DUST mercenaries ready to assault the station. The defenders obviously have to destroy the landing craft before they arrive.
If the number of landing craft reaches a certain threshold (say 30%) then another event is launched:
DUST/LEGION: Again another battle appears for members of these two alliances, this time in a space station enviroment fighting over control of the station. This would be a very close quarters game and offer no armoured support. Victor of that match would get a boost to capturing the system from the enemy (with the station suffering some form of damage)
Or something like that :) Blessed are those that carry the Empress' Light; with it they destroy the shadows |

DaReaper
Net 7 The Last Brigade
893
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Posted - 2014.09.04 18:12:00 -
[10] - Quote
Arline Kley wrote:You could have it unified, yet still seperate, in the following way:
EVE: A large null sec alliance is currently in the process of taking over a system from a rival. Captial ships have been deployed, and fighters have been launched around an outpost station.
This leads to the following "events":
Valkyrie: A battle lights up in a null sec system for the pilots of those alliances that a fight is taking place in that sector and that they have been scrambled to deal with it. The assualting force is also carrying drop ships filled with DUST mercenaries ready to assault the station. The defenders obviously have to destroy the landing craft before they arrive.
If the number of landing craft reaches a certain threshold (say 30%) then another event is launched:
DUST/LEGION: Again another battle appears for members of these two alliances, this time in a space station enviroment fighting over control of the station. This would be a very close quarters game and offer no armoured support. Victor of that match would get a boost to capturing the system from the enemy (with the station suffering some form of damage)
Or something like that :)
That's not a bad idea. And if there are goals, for example if alliance a is attacked b, and alliance a's mercs beat alliance b's the station flips or has less RF or something that would make me then want to care bout valk, dust and legion. OMG Comet Mining idea!!! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=331766 |
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CCP Guard
C C P C C P Alliance
4843

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Posted - 2014.09.13 17:05:00 -
[11] - Quote
What we're focusing on now is to make a kick-ass VR-only dogfighting game. Only when we've achieved that goal will we think of ways to possibly merge games. It's fun to think about the possibilities but its not our focus at the moment. CCP Guard | EVE Community Developer |-á@ccp_guard |
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DaReaper
Net 7 The Last Brigade
946
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Posted - 2014.09.13 17:36:00 -
[12] - Quote
CCP Guard wrote:What we're focusing on now is to make a kick-ass VR-only dogfighting game. Only when we've achieved that goal will we think of ways to possibly merge games. It's fun to think about the possibilities but its not our focus at the moment.
Yea i'm actually really ok with this. Get bored in eve, jump onto valk and do a quick dogfight session, then jump back to eve and do other stuff. OMG Comet Mining idea!!! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=331766 |
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CCP Guard
C C P C C P Alliance
4843

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Posted - 2014.09.14 12:33:00 -
[13] - Quote
DaReaper wrote:CCP Guard wrote:What we're focusing on now is to make a kick-ass VR-only dogfighting game. Only when we've achieved that goal will we think of ways to possibly merge games. It's fun to think about the possibilities but its not our focus at the moment. Yea i'm actually really ok with this. Get bored in eve, jump onto valk and do a quick dogfight session, then jump back to eve and do other stuff.
The EVE setting in Valkyrie is really strong. I got real giddy when I found myself orbiting one of EVE's more iconic ships in my fast little fighter :). It looked pretty huge :P
CCP Guard | EVE Community Developer |-á@ccp_guard |
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Felicity Love
Imperium Galactic Navy
2133
|
Posted - 2014.09.14 17:44:00 -
[14] - Quote
RAIN Arthie wrote:CCP needs to get their heads in the game if they want anything to take off. They need to unite the 3 games making them reliant on eachother.
Not "reliant"... just mutually beneficial.
The last thing you want is some colossal screwup in another game borking EVE. Think it through. 
"EVE is dying." -- The Four Forum Trolls of the Apocalypse.-á-á ( Pick four, any four. They all smell. -á)
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DaReaper
Net 7 The Last Brigade
950
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Posted - 2014.09.14 22:21:00 -
[15] - Quote
Felicity Love wrote:RAIN Arthie wrote:CCP needs to get their heads in the game if they want anything to take off. They need to unite the 3 games making them reliant on eachother. Not "reliant"... just mutually beneficial. The last thing you want is some colossal screwup in another game borking EVE. Think it through. 
Yes, you can have them connected, but still seperate. There just needs to be a reason that i, as an eve pilot, want to care about dust/legion and valk. But that if say Valk flopped, or was not used in the way i need it to be its not that big a deal.
As i said, if my alliance was going to invade, say Hed-GP I could put out a contract for valk and legion to go in and do some damage to things while my allianc eis doing other stuff. For example. legion coudl fight int he station, if my side wins then it means i don;t have a RF timer on the station. Valk pilots coudl battle outside the startion, if they win then it means something else, like the second timer is gone.
Now if either of thouse happens it means less pain on my end. and if none of them happen then its not that big a deal.
That would make me care to use them, and if say Valk was a failure and closed in a year then it would not really hurt eve.
I happen to agree with guard, get a good game that people want to play, THEN combine them. Don;t sell an eve link till there is one and make sure Valk can stand on its own. That way they never have to be connected, or they can be for ***** n giggles OMG Comet Mining idea!!! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=331766 |

Carniflex
StarHunt Mordus Angels
291
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Posted - 2014.09.15 07:25:00 -
[16] - Quote
CCP Guard wrote:What we're focusing on now is to make a kick-ass VR-only dogfighting game. Only when we've achieved that goal will we think of ways to possibly merge games. It's fun to think about the possibilities but its not our focus at the moment.
While this is a fine goal it would be better to keep the possibility of "one universe" in mind during the design process. At the very least keeping everything lore-compatible, for a start. I do understand that it might be a bit hard to synchronize the games from the technical standpoint but at the same time I do not think it is outright impossible. EVE Client can keep ticking with 1 Hz (or be updated to 0.5 Hz perhaps in the future) and Legion / Valkyrie can keep their own clocks at much higher rate and just inform the lowest frequency clock every once in a while what they are up to, for example, in first iteration naive approach.
If / when Valkyrie will be successful there will be many knockoffs/clones and some of them might get something more "right" or "better". Being in one universe with EVE would be the unique twist for the Valkyrie which would be almost impossible to clone for the future competitors.
As far as I understand the "one universe" is present at the moment in the grand plans (the EVE keynote about unified character identity with separate aspects for the Legion/Valkyrie/EVE Online under the same identity). Here, sanity... niiiice sanity, come to daddy... okay, that's a good sanity... *THWONK!* GOT the bastard. |

Malissa Radort
Core Industry. Circle-Of-Two
7
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Posted - 2014.09.17 11:16:00 -
[17] - Quote
CCP Guard wrote:What we're focusing on now is to make a kick-ass VR-only dogfighting game. Only when we've achieved that goal will we think of ways to possibly merge games. It's fun to think about the possibilities but its not our focus at the moment.
No merge game, no community. You sell dream to us, we wait for that.
And, where is the walk in station? |

DaReaper
Net 7 The Last Brigade
964
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Posted - 2014.09.17 18:53:00 -
[18] - Quote
Malissa Radort wrote:CCP Guard wrote:What we're focusing on now is to make a kick-ass VR-only dogfighting game. Only when we've achieved that goal will we think of ways to possibly merge games. It's fun to think about the possibilities but its not our focus at the moment. No merge game, no community. You sell dream to us, we wait for that. And, where is the walk in station?
WiS is in the holding cell indefinatly. Research Jita Riots and you have your answer. Also they never said valk will be linked. They never even hinted at it. The word was always 'make a good game.. maybe link later' OMG Comet Mining idea!!! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=331766 |

Crasniya
Strange Energy The Bastion
538
|
Posted - 2014.09.17 21:32:00 -
[19] - Quote
CCP Guard wrote:What we're focusing on now is to make a kick-ass VR-only dogfighting game. Only when we've achieved that goal will we think of ways to possibly merge games. It's fun to think about the possibilities but its not our focus at the moment.
This is a huge mistake. The biggest mistake made with DUST, was that the entire Reykjavik team wasn't focused on integrating it for the expansion cycle where it released. I fear this mentality will lead to even more poor links in the future. |

DaReaper
Net 7 The Last Brigade
966
|
Posted - 2014.09.17 23:34:00 -
[20] - Quote
Crasniya wrote:CCP Guard wrote:What we're focusing on now is to make a kick-ass VR-only dogfighting game. Only when we've achieved that goal will we think of ways to possibly merge games. It's fun to think about the possibilities but its not our focus at the moment. This is a huge mistake. The biggest mistake made with DUST, was that the entire Reykjavik team wasn't focused on integrating it for the expansion cycle where it released. I fear this mentality will lead to even more poor links in the future.
I disagree. Dust failed because it did not link enough. and was on ps3, not pc. If dust had been on pc eve players would of used it. If it had a stronger link, eve players would of supported it. If it had no link, it would still do what it did, we just would of ignored it.
A stand alone unlinked game that is good is not a bad thing. My guess is they do not, at this time, have the tech to make the two games work together in a meaningful way. Maybe after legion and valk are both out. OMG Comet Mining idea!!! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=331766 |
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Crasniya
Strange Energy The Bastion
540
|
Posted - 2014.09.19 14:46:00 -
[21] - Quote
DaReaper, it would've done the same on PC. The mistakes it made were not respective of the platform, and EVE players are not numerous enough to make a difference. If it had a stronger link, people between both communities would've interacted heavily. The idea that it would've been better if it was just the same people playing on both games is dumb.
They have all the tech. The tech is there. Reykjavik isn't putting enough effort into it. Had CCP dedicated a EVE expansion cycle to implementing DUST integration, DUST would be twice the (actually very solid) game it is today, and EVE Online would have a lot more content to work with, and a much larger social interaction base.
Examples:
The API exists. You can actually log into the EVE site with a DUST account. But no work was done to allow DUST characters to get API keys or use API features.
The EVE Gate exists. You can actually log into the EVE site with a DUST account. But DUST accounts are not able to use the EVE Gate for in-game mail or to look up employment histories of other players.
No UI was ever placed in EVE to show territorial control of Planetary Conquest districts.
No UI was ever placed in EVE to show progress of fights in districts you were orbiting.
No UI was ever placed in EVE to show additional details about DUST players other than their employment history.
No UI was ever placed in EVE to show DUST corporation wallet ISK. Soraya Xel - Council of Planetary Management 1 - [email protected] |

Crasniya
Strange Energy The Bastion
552
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Posted - 2014.09.19 14:46:39 -
[22] - Quote
DaReaper, it would've done the same on PC. The mistakes it made were not respective of the platform, and EVE players are not numerous enough to make a difference. If it had a stronger link, people between both communities would've interacted heavily. The idea that it would've been better if it was just the same people playing on both games is dumb.
They have all the tech. The tech is there. Reykjavik isn't putting enough effort into it. Had CCP dedicated a EVE expansion cycle to implementing DUST integration, DUST would be twice the (actually very solid) game it is today, and EVE Online would have a lot more content to work with, and a much larger social interaction base.
Examples:
The API exists. You can actually log into the EVE site with a DUST account. But no work was done to allow DUST characters to get API keys or use API features.
The EVE Gate exists. You can actually log into the EVE site with a DUST account. But DUST accounts are not able to use the EVE Gate for in-game mail or to look up employment histories of other players.
No UI was ever placed in EVE to show territorial control of Planetary Conquest districts.
No UI was ever placed in EVE to show progress of fights in districts you were orbiting.
No UI was ever placed in EVE to show additional details about DUST players other than their employment history.
No UI was ever placed in EVE to show DUST corporation wallet ISK.
Soraya Xel - Council of Planetary Management 1 - [email protected]
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DaReaper
Net 7 The Last Brigade
977
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Posted - 2014.09.19 19:35:00 -
[23] - Quote
Crasniya wrote:DaReaper, it would've done the same on PC. The mistakes it made were not respective of the platform, and EVE players are not numerous enough to make a difference. If it had a stronger link, people between both communities would've interacted heavily. The idea that it would've been better if it was just the same people playing on both games is dumb.
They have all the tech. The tech is there. Reykjavik isn't putting enough effort into it. Had CCP dedicated a EVE expansion cycle to implementing DUST integration, DUST would be twice the (actually very solid) game it is today, and EVE Online would have a lot more content to work with, and a much larger social interaction base.
Examples:
The API exists. You can actually log into the EVE site with a DUST account. But no work was done to allow DUST characters to get API keys or use API features.
The EVE Gate exists. You can actually log into the EVE site with a DUST account. But DUST accounts are not able to use the EVE Gate for in-game mail or to look up employment histories of other players.
No UI was ever placed in EVE to show territorial control of Planetary Conquest districts.
No UI was ever placed in EVE to show progress of fights in districts you were orbiting.
No UI was ever placed in EVE to show additional details about DUST players other than their employment history.
No UI was ever placed in EVE to show DUST corporation wallet ISK.
Oh I don't disagree with you. They dropped the ball with Dust. But they kinda shot themselves before it even got out the door. Saying it was for ps3 pissed off a lot of eve players, then saying it will have this deep.. no wait we mean barley any link also hurt them. As stand alone, not linked to eve at all, just a FPS set in the eve universe, it MIGHT of been better, but from an eve players perpective, it was a pointless game. OMG Comet Mining idea!!! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=331766 |

DaReaper
Net 7
1258
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Posted - 2014.09.19 19:35:20 -
[24] - Quote
Crasniya wrote:DaReaper, it would've done the same on PC. The mistakes it made were not respective of the platform, and EVE players are not numerous enough to make a difference. If it had a stronger link, people between both communities would've interacted heavily. The idea that it would've been better if it was just the same people playing on both games is dumb.
They have all the tech. The tech is there. Reykjavik isn't putting enough effort into it. Had CCP dedicated a EVE expansion cycle to implementing DUST integration, DUST would be twice the (actually very solid) game it is today, and EVE Online would have a lot more content to work with, and a much larger social interaction base.
Examples:
The API exists. You can actually log into the EVE site with a DUST account. But no work was done to allow DUST characters to get API keys or use API features.
The EVE Gate exists. You can actually log into the EVE site with a DUST account. But DUST accounts are not able to use the EVE Gate for in-game mail or to look up employment histories of other players.
No UI was ever placed in EVE to show territorial control of Planetary Conquest districts.
No UI was ever placed in EVE to show progress of fights in districts you were orbiting.
No UI was ever placed in EVE to show additional details about DUST players other than their employment history.
No UI was ever placed in EVE to show DUST corporation wallet ISK.
Oh I don't disagree with you. They dropped the ball with Dust. But they kinda shot themselves before it even got out the door. Saying it was for ps3 pissed off a lot of eve players, then saying it will have this deep.. no wait we mean barley any link also hurt them. As stand alone, not linked to eve at all, just a FPS set in the eve universe, it MIGHT of been better, but from an eve players perpective, it was a pointless game.
OMG Comet Mining idea!!! Comet Mining!
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Crasniya
Strange Energy The Bastion
541
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Posted - 2014.09.19 20:46:00 -
[25] - Quote
DaReaper wrote:Saying it was for ps3 pissed off a lot of eve players
Largely irrelevant. Veteran EVE players and their dumb opinions are probably killing EVE. They have entitlement issues that believe everything CCP does has to be "for them". (Find any number of posts where EVE players demand that "their money" they paid to CCP shouldn't be used for another CCP project. Hint: It's not their money anymore. It's CCP's money.) For doing an FPS, as much as I personally hate FPSes on consoles, console was the right choice. The fact that they screwed it up royally is a separate matter.
EVE players should be a nearly inconsequential number of DUST/Legion players. Legion will surely have a larger overlap than DUST has, and I'd actually say that's a bad thing. CCP needs new customers. They aren't going to get them until they start ignoring veteran EVE players. Because the veterans will be angry either way, it's what bitter vets do. You can't make them happy. So stop trying to.
The goal of a game link shouldn't be for a single player to benefit by playing both games. A lot of existing players want to think that way, but it's a Bad Thought. Ideally, each game should have it's own community, and the method of linking them should cause those communities to interact and transact business across. The content for EVE players in a DUST or Legion or Valkyrie link shouldn't be "I can play both" even though they can. The content should be the new mechanics in which they interact with people between games. Soraya Xel - Council of Planetary Management 1 - [email protected] |

Crasniya
Strange Energy The Bastion
552
|
Posted - 2014.09.19 20:46:04 -
[26] - Quote
DaReaper wrote:Saying it was for ps3 pissed off a lot of eve players
Largely irrelevant. Veteran EVE players and their dumb opinions are probably killing EVE. They have entitlement issues that believe everything CCP does has to be "for them". (Find any number of posts where EVE players demand that "their money" they paid to CCP shouldn't be used for another CCP project. Hint: It's not their money anymore. It's CCP's money.) For doing an FPS, as much as I personally hate FPSes on consoles, console was the right choice. The fact that they screwed it up royally is a separate matter.
EVE players should be a nearly inconsequential number of DUST/Legion players. Legion will surely have a larger overlap than DUST has, and I'd actually say that's a bad thing. CCP needs new customers. They aren't going to get them until they start ignoring veteran EVE players. Because the veterans will be angry either way, it's what bitter vets do. You can't make them happy. So stop trying to.
The goal of a game link shouldn't be for a single player to benefit by playing both games. A lot of existing players want to think that way, but it's a Bad Thought. Ideally, each game should have it's own community, and the method of linking them should cause those communities to interact and transact business across. The content for EVE players in a DUST or Legion or Valkyrie link shouldn't be "I can play both" even though they can. The content should be the new mechanics in which they interact with people between games.
Soraya Xel - Council of Planetary Management 1 - [email protected]
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DaReaper
Net 7 The Last Brigade
978
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Posted - 2014.09.19 21:01:00 -
[27] - Quote
I will agree to disagree =)
but merely on the finer points, I agree with yoru premise that we need new blood OMG Comet Mining idea!!! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=331766 |

DaReaper
Net 7
1258
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Posted - 2014.09.19 21:01:40 -
[28] - Quote
I will agree to disagree =)
but merely on the finer points, I agree with yoru premise that we need new blood
OMG Comet Mining idea!!! Comet Mining!
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Pestilen Ratte
Artimus Ratte
0
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Posted - 2014.09.21 07:54:00 -
[29] - Quote
CCP Guard wrote:What we're focusing on now is to make a kick-ass VR-only dogfighting game. Only when we've achieved that goal will we think of ways to possibly merge games. It's fun to think about the possibilities but its not our focus at the moment.
With respect, this is not the sort of leadership that instils the fear of god in your enemy.
It is rather the sort of thing a high school girl says to another high school girl, as she learns the art of the casual yet calculated dismissal.
For a start, if you are not thinking about the larger picture throughout the process, you are axiomatically limited in the scope of your achievements. If and when you ever get around to integration of the games, we can reasonably expect a great many problems due to the fact that you were not thinking about integration as you went along.
Imagine if one were to build a jet fighter along these lines. "No don't bother us with your fun talk about landing gear, we are completely focused on the engines."
Dust is a lame duck precisely because it is now too hard to integrate it into Eve. Why? Because you all did not think hard enough about how to do that, as you went along.
Aside from the premonitions of failure aroused by this Dev post, one is mindful of the language used, and the more than slightly patronising tone.
Please remember that you are an employee, and that we are customers. It is not your place to address us in this tone, and it does nothing for the fortunes of the shareholders who rely on our good grace and continued patronage for their equity.
In my view, CCP needs to have a long, hard look at their senior leadership. If your devs are posting comments like this on forums, you have serious discipline issues to address. |

Imuji
Swamphole Holdings Swamphole
4
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Posted - 2014.10.14 16:36:00 -
[30] - Quote
Pestilen Ratte wrote:For a start, if you are not thinking about the larger picture throughout the process, you are axiomatically limited in the scope of your achievements. If and when you ever get around to integration of the games, we can reasonably expect a great many problems due to the fact that you were not thinking about integration as you went along.
You're missing the point. CCP's primary focus with Valkyrie is to initially build an awesome quality game, and that's what they put their money and development time into. That we could theoretically get it tied into EVE is a different story, but that falls outside their development scope.
Please don't be a troll =) |
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