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Yiin
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Posted - 2003.09.25 11:01:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Yiin on 25/09/2003 11:20:33
Well a lot of people have noticed that I have placed a lot of sell orders of Super Conductors around the core regions. Because of this the response I have gotten was from congratulating me to threats I would not like to mention here. Let me tell you how this thing happened.
Like a lot of other people I have been doing missions like a madman to receive implants. I wasnÆt able to get any memory or intel implants and I wanted to find out what the secret is. Then I found this thread and put 1 and 1 together. At that point I had no intention doing this ôscam-exploit-smart businessö call it what you feel fits best.
I went ahead and got me some Miniature electronics and put them up in the region my mission guy is for 30k each and went back doing missions. After about 15 min somebody actually bought these and I was rather amazed (4 jumps and he could have bought them a lot cheaper).
At this point the mentioned thread had a confirmation that this is the way that implant missions work û the commodity has to be on the market! On my trip finding Miniature electronics I found a sell order for huge cash (100M or so) for some super conductors. So again I put 1-1 together.
While waiting for my agent to give me another mission I had the idea of swamping the inner core regions with super conductors. So I thought why waste time waiting on my agent just log on your alt and find them ôsomewhereö. I did find a large amount and let missions be missions. About the time I was buying a large quantity of super conductors Enderweeks confirmed that these are really the commodities needed.
ôGoodö I thought I didnÆt waste my time and started placing all these sell orders in the core at a crazy price yes, but at a price I would have bought them for myself to finally get a memory implant.
Why the people that have known what the commodity is havenÆt done this themselves days ago is beyond me. I did. I am sure people will come around soon and undercut my prices. What I essentially did is enable about 13 regions (or so) to even GET implant missions. It is then up to the person to buy the required super conductors, or not. If they wouldnÆt have been there in the first place nobody but a selected few would have gotten memory implant missions. That this was a stupid choice on CCPs side is a whole different discussion.
And to make one thing absolutely clear, super conductors are rare and I was lucky to find a large enough stack to do this. It was not just buy them all up and resell them type of thing.
This post got a little longer then intended but now I can just point people to this post if they want an explanation.
Yiin (and not VIIN)
This is the thread i mentioned:
Memory Impant Rarity
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Astrid Tron
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Posted - 2003.09.25 11:14:00 -
[2]
Keep on trucking, Yiin. I dont see a problem - this is a game of war and economics, not a giftshop. I have huge problems getting a Memory Implant mission from my agents, but that is part of the fun - struggle. When I work out how to get it done (ie find some SC's and place 100m sellorder so that i get the mission and can by the SC's from myself), it will be so much more rewarding than just doing another 'spacelane bonanza' mission.
Play the game, people, or not.
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When you have to kill a man, it takes nothing to be polite |
Krashtest
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Posted - 2003.09.25 11:29:00 -
[3]
I just got my first memory implant mission, only to see the supply of superconductors set at 1,000,000 per unit with 5 needed to complete the mission. The normal supply price is around 1000 or so (at least the npc demand is).
There is a big difference between smart business and highway robbery.
P.S. I had the superconductors in another station which i had not yet cleaned out so i did not get robbed, but many others will not have that option.
Your Mega Afocal Pulse Maser I perfectly strikes Asteroid (Veldspar) [R0ME], wrecking for 798.3 damage.
Your 425mm Railgun I perfectly strikes Guardian Captain, wrecking for 685.9 damage.
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Severe McCald
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Posted - 2003.09.25 11:31:00 -
[4]
Yiin, very grateful for your "reasonable" prices compared to some. 'Thanks for the memory' (who sang that, was it Ronald Reagan?).
SM
And Moses was content to dwell with the man:and he gave Moses Zipporah his daughter. And she bare him a son, and he called his name Gershom:for he said, I have been a stranger in a strange land. |
Veruna Caseti
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Posted - 2003.09.25 11:34:00 -
[5]
Yiin I did the same thing, just not in a core region. Anyone calling this an exploit is simply angry that they once again missed an opportunity.
Anyone doing agent missions had a fair opportunity to use their heads and work out what triggered the implant missions and what items were required to finish them. So a few people realized one of the missions was scarce because it relied on a scarce commodity.
Well guess what happens to an item that costs you 600 isk and can be used to win an implant worth 30M or more? Here's a hint: the price doesn't come down.
I had to travel almost 60 jumps and spent hours to find a personal stockpile of superconductors - anyone could have done the same with a little forethought and committment to the job.
Veruna Caseti
Ishukone |
Col Maxxe
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Posted - 2003.09.25 11:46:00 -
[6]
I agree, supply and demand works every time, althou I also have to agree that the availability/seeding is a tad unfair but that will hopefully improve with the announced dynamic market-thingy.
Anyways, I jacked a convoy with 169 superconductors a few months ago which was impossible to sell, and now I'm stinkin' rich, yay!!
Ps. imo its friggin' great that tradecommoditys are coming to an use other than hauling across the universe, and I'd love to see more such ingredients in manufacturing
/Peace & out 
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Wild Rho
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Posted - 2003.09.25 12:03:00 -
[7]
Congradulations on spotting an oppertunity and taking it. Those who threatened you are pathetic for thinking you shouldnt have gone for it.
You thought about it and took a chance. It worked so congrats to you.
I have the body of a supermodel. I just can't remember where I left it... |
Gadgets
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Posted - 2003.09.25 12:08:00 -
[8]
Yup well done on spotting this lucrative exploit.
That is indeed what it is.
I dont hold any malice toward you well done.
Its just another example of someone not thinking in the offices of OCP.
It would have been oh so simple to make this required item part of the random mission generation.
So a random item was picked..
Ho hum there u go..
I guess i better start looking more closley to see if i can spot any exploits..
If you cant fight em join em thats what i say ..
Im putting in an application to Tech as soon as i log bakc on
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j0sephine
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Posted - 2003.09.25 12:14:00 -
[9]
Edited by: j0sephine on 25/09/2003 12:14:45
"Yup well done on spotting this lucrative exploit.
That is indeed what it is."
... "Exploit" implies unfair use of something for one's own advantage; given this particular practice is open to all, what's "unfair" about it?
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Gadgets
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Posted - 2003.09.25 12:21:00 -
[10]
Oh available to all...
No its been cornered..
Now people know whats going on they will undercut each other.
Smashin.
Still an exploit..
An exploit as i see it is something that is in the game helps players and was unintended.
So unless this was intended its an exploit.
Full marks to the guy who posted the FIRST post saying YIIN was exploiting
Cos he was 
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Enderweeks
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Posted - 2003.09.25 12:30:00 -
[11]
It is not an exploit it is a use of a free market.
I was the person/one of many who put the super conductors on sale for a high price in one region because I get the memory implant missions. I use the sc to get memory implants so it makes sense for me to protect my supply by buying as many as I can.
I don't know Yiin or whether he has access to the missions but if he doesn't then kudos to him for spotting the market and putting the sc for sale in other regions - this means that a lot more people now get the mission for which they have to buy a commodity at inflated prices but still get a valuable reward in return.
Is it fair? - pass
Is it part of the game? - definately
This is a golden moment for some people and hopefully there will be many more along the way that if you play the game you might be involved in.
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Veruna Caseti
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Posted - 2003.09.25 12:37:00 -
[12]
 Quote:
Still an exploit..
An exploit as i see it is something that is in the game helps players and was unintended.
So unless this was intended its an exploit.
Anything that wasn't intended is an exploit? I hate to resort to flaming so early in the morning but you are a fool.
Unintended side effects, player innovations, clever tactics and new strategies for gaining an advantage are the things that make online gaming interesting and fun.
If you want a game whose only features are set out in the manual that comes with it, may I suggest 'Chutes and Ladders'?
An 'exploit' is something which takes advantage of a bug in the code or a loophole in the rules to gain an unfair advantage over other players. This is not a bug, it's not a loophole - and considering EVERYONE had a fair chance to figure this out and take the time to find what SCs were on the market, it's definitely not unfair.
Veruna Caseti
Ishukone |
j0sephine
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Posted - 2003.09.25 12:44:00 -
[13]
Edited by: j0sephine on 25/09/2003 12:45:45
"Oh available to all...
No its been cornered.."
... It was available to everyone with a working brain; for that matter, still is.
Am sorry if this is a requirement some find too difficult to pass.
"Now people know whats going on they will undercut each other."
Yes; the price of superconductors will go down, just like the prices of implants themselves. Given you're crying the prices of superconductors are at the moment too high and 'exploitive', how's them going down a bad thing, again?
"Still an exploit.."
No, pure and simple. Being able to spot business opportunity and taking advantage of it before others do is good market sense and nothing more.
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Gadgets
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Posted - 2003.09.25 12:51:00 -
[14]
Yup .. Untill the next big "free market" Exploit
I look at it this way .. Im on lvl 1 Agents.
All you wonderfull guys have just been playing longer.
When i get to the position you gus have passed it will cost me dear.
I do not think this was intended as part of the agent missions system.
Ok its been modified by players.
Was it supposed to be is my point.
I think not.
Exploits/money bugs like this should be squashed as they arise.
After all your not being asked to make the implants.. Just do a job.
People work hard to follow the agents missions now they will have to find extra money.
What if they dont have enough money at the time to buy the things ..
Too bad huh..
No i can see your point and dont disagree with players taking advantage of this BUT it must be seen as an exploit by DEVS and fixed.
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Col Maxxe
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Posted - 2003.09.25 12:58:00 -
[15]
oh well, prices are about to drop as there will be thousands of new superconductors with every restart, give it a few days and prices should be back to more normal rates.
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Gadgets
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Posted - 2003.09.25 13:02:00 -
[16]
Quote:
Edited by: j0sephine on 25/09/2003 12:45:45
"Oh available to all...
No its been cornered.."
... It was available to everyone with a working brain; for that matter, still is.
Am sorry if this is a requirement some find too difficult to pass.
"Now people know whats going on they will undercut each other."
Yes; the price of superconductors will go down, just like the prices of implants themselves. Given you're crying the prices of superconductors are at the moment too high and 'exploitive', how's them going down a bad thing, again?
"Still an exploit.."
No, pure and simple. Being able to spot business opportunity and taking advantage of it before others do is good market sense and nothing more.
LOL keep your knickers on.
Jeez
People are allowed their own oppinions you know
Whining about my oppinion wont change it.
And please try to attack the correct person i havent said anything about how high prices are.
Agent missions should not rely on market forces.
Its inconcievable that an agent mission should fail because a player cannot get something because of pc interference.(ie he does not have the money)
Im so tempted to hark on about your selfishness and ignorance but i wont.
That would just inflame you new hights of Flamery.
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Gadgets
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Posted - 2003.09.25 13:10:00 -
[17]
Quote:
Quote:
Still an exploit..
An exploit as i see it is something that is in the game helps players and was unintended.
So unless this was intended its an exploit.
Anything that wasn't intended is an exploit? I hate to resort to flaming so early in the morning but you are a fool.
Unintended side effects, player innovations, clever tactics and new strategies for gaining an advantage are the things that make online gaming interesting and fun.
If you want a game whose only features are set out in the manual that comes with it, may I suggest 'Chutes and Ladders'?
An 'exploit' is something which takes advantage of a bug in the code or a loophole in the rules to gain an unfair advantage over other players. This is not a bug, it's not a loophole - and considering EVERYONE had a fair chance to figure this out and take the time to find what SCs were on the market, it's definitely not unfair.
That time of the month?
Im sure you feel Flaming is an elogant pastime.
I dont.
Do you really believe that this is a loophole.
The Agent missions are part of the games main mechanics. Doing this can affect a players ability to complete the mission.
Can you not see that that is unacceptable?
People work HARD to get to the point where an agent is offering something of value and because of an error Pc can screw it up for them?
Nahh it sucks Get a grip use you head.
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Veruna Caseti
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Posted - 2003.09.25 13:21:00 -
[18]
Quote:
Do you really believe that this is a loophole.
No, it's not a loophole. That's exactly my point. It's a perfectly valid, legal and straightforward method for using a player-based economy driven by supply and demand.
Quote:
The Agent missions are part of the games main mechanics.
Yah? Well so is the Market; players have recognized an opportunity to combine a demand created by Agent missions with a supply provided by the Market - and turn the situation to their advantage.
Quote:
Doing this can affect a players ability to complete the mission.
Can you not see that that is unacceptable?
No, not at all. I expect to have my ability to do things affected by other players - that's why I play online games.
I could hunt you down and blow your ship up - that would "affect your ability to complete missions." Does that make it an exploit? No, it is part of the game as well.
Veruna Caseti
Ishukone |
Athule Snanm
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Posted - 2003.09.25 13:23:00 -
[19]
It clearly is a loophole - read the CSM if you don't think it is for the Dev's idea on what should affect mission success, and it's entirely possible that if things are left like they are people *will* buy every single last superconductor available. It is this which makes it *slightly* exploity - if someone is doing agent missions gets a memory mission they HAVE to buy your goods or fail the mission. If there are no superconductors on the market then they are completely cut out of these missions and apart from hanging around at downtime to grab a supply there's *nothing* they can do about it.
_______________________________
Doomheim - EVE's only hygiene! |
Veruna Caseti
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Posted - 2003.09.25 13:28:00 -
[20]
Quote:
there's *nothing* they can do about it.
Yes there is - purchase the superconductors at the inflated price. Even at 500k per unit you are still looking at 2.5M invested to receive an item worth over 15M and often upwards of 20M.
Veruna Caseti
Ishukone |
Gadgets
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Posted - 2003.09.25 13:32:00 -
[21]
Quote:
Quote:
Do you really believe that this is a loophole.
No, it's not a loophole. That's exactly my point. It's a perfectly valid, legal and straightforward method for using a player-based economy driven by supply and demand.
Quote:
The Agent missions are part of the games main mechanics.
Yah? Well so is the Market; players have recognized an opportunity to combine a demand created by Agent missions with a supply provided by the Market - and turn the situation to their advantage.
Quote:
Doing this can affect a players ability to complete the mission.
Can you not see that that is unacceptable?
No, not at all. I expect to have my ability to do things affected by other players - that's why I play online games.
I could hunt you down and blow your ship up - that would "affect your ability to complete missions." Does that make it an exploit? No, it is part of the game as well.
I can see that you are no open to others views.
This is not a "true market" so dont talk about it as such.
It is TOTALLY controlled by the game mechanics.
Trade items were designed to be moved from point a to point b to make a profit.
This isnt what is happening..
If what you are doing was correct the the sale prices for these items would be in line withe the values u resell them at.
FFS get a grip ..
This is a game and can is controlled when people see things that are so stupid it isnt real they post these comments in the hopes that a DEV will correct the problem.
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NastyLlama
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Posted - 2003.09.25 13:52:00 -
[22]
Edited by: NastyLlama on 25/09/2003 13:55:54
Quote:
Why the people that have known what the commodity is havenÆt done this themselves days ago is beyond me. I did.
Well I see your point, but for the poor noobs you just killed a good way to get ahead in eve.
It should not be alowed that a few players can kill off an agent mission, the agents are there to give all players, rich or poor, some content and player fun.
I for 1 will not be paying your prices, and I hope ccp will seed the market to a point that makes it impossible to strip the hole eve universe of agent missions.
Have you ever thought that this has been known about but players did not want to kill off the agents.
With so many new players already feeling fed up trying to get ahead it will make the new player fed up quite quickly if all avenues are cornered by the few.
I do understand your opinion and you are correct in what your saying about the economics of eve.
Just a shame for the new players, that just a few peeps can kill agents dead
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I'M not a carebear, I'M a total coward, beware of cornerd carebares and cowards, we winge and cry like cornered pirates..........
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Veruna Caseti
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Posted - 2003.09.25 13:55:00 -
[23]
Quote:
Well I see your point, but for the poor noobs you just killed a good way to get ahead in eve.
Well, I am a new player and that's exactly what I'm using this situation to do.
Veruna Caseti
Ishukone |
NastyLlama
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Posted - 2003.09.25 14:00:00 -
[24]
Quote:
Well, I am a new player and that's exactly what I'm using this situation to do.
And what is that to do with it, the ones who have worked hard to get a lvl 3 agent who dont have the cash or ability are now stuffed up the creek with no paddle
I wonder how you would feel if after 90 or so missions you find all that work is wasted.
I bet you would not be very happy
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I'M not a carebear, I'M a total coward, beware of cornerd carebares and cowards, we winge and cry like cornered pirates..........
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Yiin
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Posted - 2003.09.25 14:02:00 -
[25]
The major thing is this didnÆt kill the agent missions. It enabeled them for memory implants. Its not that I bought up all SC in those regions and then resold them at big profit. I actually went and brought them from 1 region and then dispersed them to all those regions where they werenÆt available in the first place. And the way these missions work is you DONÆT get the mission if the commodity is NOT on the market. These things are rare. It doesnÆt matter now anyways as people are already starting to sell for less.
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j0sephine
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Posted - 2003.09.25 14:03:00 -
[26]
"LOL keep your knickers on.
Jeez
People are allowed their own oppinions you know
Whining about my oppinion wont change it."
*shrugs* Am sorry you can't tell 'whining' from pointing out you are, imo, wrong. Expressing your opinion may cause others to disagree with you, you know.
"And please try to attack the correct person i havent said anything about how high prices are."
Indeed; you are merely complaining people are exploiting the situation and make others fail agent missions due to lack of money to purchase the necessary goods....
... Sorry, on second thought i guess i really don't get what your point might be. Elaborate, please?.. :s
"Im so tempted to hark on about your selfishness and ignorance but i wont."
Dearie, but you just did; except you have no guts to do it outright, and no leg to stand on considering you're fresh to the agent missions yourself.
... And of course, since i have no part whatsoever in this whole superconductor business, 'tis quite a silly complaint on your part. But that's another story...
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j0sephine
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Posted - 2003.09.25 14:08:00 -
[27]
Edited by: j0sephine on 25/09/2003 14:10:31
"I for 1 will not be paying your prices, and I hope ccp will seed the market to a point that makes it impossible to strip the hole eve universe of agent missions."
... Why don't you check how many of those needed goods are actually generated every day on the market, before you complain and demand CCP to 'fix things'?
Those bloody super conductors people are crying about now are used for one implant type out of five.
You can easily get other implant types for which the goods are generated in abundance, sell them for millions and use this money to get the parts for the memory implant, if you so desire. Or put up buy orders and get the super conductors at NPC prices. Or wait until the PC super conductor prices fall down due to people undercutting one another. Or think of yet another solution that didn't occur to me at the moment, there's plenty of them....
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NastyLlama
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Posted - 2003.09.25 14:11:00 -
[28]
Quote:
The major thing is this didnÆt kill the agent missions. It enabeled them for memory implants
And how is that, I dont understad how players buying all the stock enables the missions, could you explane
So you only bought them from 1 region, but I looked and cant find any
The prices are droping, where and to what level is the drop
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I'M not a carebear, I'M a total coward, beware of cornerd carebares and cowards, we winge and cry like cornered pirates..........
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PropanElgen
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Posted - 2003.09.25 14:11:00 -
[29]
Quote:
Yiin I did the same thing, just not in a core region. Anyone calling this an exploit is simply angry that they once again missed an opportunity.
You hypocrit.
Stop bashing Techell because you and others missed an opportunity with Miner II BPCs!
All the angels and the puny men of god looked away...
Frightened to death by the evil that was born on that day!
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NastyLlama
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Posted - 2003.09.25 14:13:00 -
[30]
Edited by: NastyLlama on 25/09/2003 14:19:12
Edited by: NastyLlama on 25/09/2003 14:17:10
Quote:
Those bloody super conductors people are crying about now are used for one implant type out of five
And how long untill all the others go the same way.
Quote:
... Why don't you check how many of those needed goods are actually generated every day on the market, before you complain and demand CCP to 'fix things'?
You should know that the genarated quantity are not above being sold out in the first 10 min's after down time, like so many other goods on the market.
This is again another problem with how the market is seeded after down time
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I'M not a carebear, I'M a total coward, beware of cornerd carebares and cowards, we winge and cry like cornered pirates..........
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