From personal experience with my fits running Minnie and Cal FW missions in bombers...1 and 3 won't completely 'fix it' unless you introduce webs (or up the DPS).

As is, I can AB+local rep pretty much anything when missioning. Some more than others with a heavy dose of caution, but for the most part doable. Granted, my mission fits are a bit "shiney", but still immensely cheaper than what I need to run Gal missions...

You realise how much ccp and fozzie love the gals? Just pointing on op comet, op ishtar, op algos etc.
Better pray ccp doesn't fix it for the gals because if they do gal fw lv4 will be doable in noobship with civilian gatling rail.

10 pages of whining and I am still unclear on what problem you folks are actually trying to fix here. How does mission farming harm you (or FW?)

it was started as a rebalance thread, racial ewar make missioning for specific factions extremely unbalanced between them.

then it become the old "lets bash pve".

As much as I will typically approve of bashing PvE in Eve, this thread seems to be simple, straightforward butthurt that people can make money in FW because... well, it's not exactly clear why. Some people seem to be upset that FW missioners are used to fund non-FW activities, particularly cap ships and above.

So, sour grapes. It boils down to the classic MMO "I do not like the way that other guy is having fun so IT MUST BE STOPPED."

Tough crap. HTFU and let others have their fun, and even better, hunt them down while they do it. It has no detrimental effect on FW whatsoever.

Certainly. Scroll back up a few pages and you'll see me suggesting to balance them to be doable in AFs for all races too.

I still reject the idea that FW mission cash influx a priori harms FW. That seems like a non sequitur.

Now, the plex farming feedback loop benefitting the dominant side, on the other hand - that's an actual problem.

Certainly. Scroll back up a few pages and you'll see me suggesting to balance them to be doable in AFs for all races too.

I still reject the idea that FW mission cash influx a priori harms FW. That seems like a non sequitur.

Now, the plex farming feedback loop benefitting the dominant side, on the other hand - that's an actual problem.

Certainly. Scroll back up a few pages and you'll see me suggesting to balance them to be doable in AFs for all races too.

I still reject the idea that FW mission cash influx a priori harms FW. That seems like a non sequitur.

Now, the plex farming feedback loop benefitting the dominant side, on the other hand - that's an actual problem.

The effects of the missions are somewhat complicated. For example, a decent argument could be made that gallente and Amarr benefit from having harder missions. This is because it makes plexing for lp comparatively better. Moreover our lp does not get watered down so much. (although the fw stores share so many items the impact would be debatable)

If the missions were nerfed so that you could gain much more lp from plexing then the whole "tier system" of the occupancy war would have some economic relevance. Now it's just very hard to care.

so you means that running plexes is so ****** that you need to nerf everything else to get people doing it?
I dont think so.

If the missions were nerfed so that you could gain much more lp from plexing then the whole "tier system" of the occupancy war would have some economic relevance. Now it's just very hard to care.

The Gal/Cal war zone is anything but stagnant if you are active in it.

Its like arguing whether a mile is a long distance or a short distance. I look at dotlan and see most systems in fw space have had no kills in the last 3 hours. The system with the most kills most often is tama which has a high sec entry that is gatecamped. These kills have little to do with fw.

Maybe your issue is that you are only looking at the past three hours, and you are disregarding fights that include Faction Warfare players (tama/nourv is basically perma camped by Gal Mil pilots if Perunga is online and he isn't involved in something else) if it doesn't occur in a plex.

I would challenge you to find an area in eve outside of Black Rise/Placid that provides more constant PVP (ships exploding) in the last year, let alone one that provides that much pewage and still has tons of solo/micro gang and isn't just station/gate camping. I have to actively force myself to avoid pew pew if I want to do anything else in game, otherwise I would just be constantly flying around and blowing crap up (and getting blown up myself).

Black Rise
Placid

EDIT: For those looking to get in on the fun

In any event I think we are getting away from the topic. Would you agree that if fw missions were nerfed relative to plexing then more people would plex? Do you agree that more people plexing would mean more people fighting for plexes?

I am not saying nerf "everything else." FW mission running pays stupid amounts of lp and not only makes the entire tier system irrelevant but ruins other lp stores as well.

But yes plexing and the occupancy war would become economically relevant if mission lp was nerfed. More people would then plex. More people in plexes will mean more pvp in plexes. And this is good for faction war.

If the missions were nerfed so that you could gain much more lp from plexing then the whole "tier system" of the occupancy war would have some economic relevance. Now it's just very hard to care.

When Missions are paying out 5xs as much lp as you can get from doing occupancy plexing the value of the lp from occupancy plexing is watered down so much its not worth doing at all.

In any event I think we are getting away from the topic. Would you agree that if fw missions were nerfed relative to plexing then more people would plex? Do you agree that more people plexing would mean more people fighting for plexes?

In the thread there were some that claimed a SB was slower than a T3. Can I get an explanation on that? I've tried to fit a(any) t3 to be able to 500-550 dps at 70km, warp cloaked at 5.5au/s all before implant and have been coming up short.

Mission running is completely orthogonal to the problems facing FW. Totally unrelated.

No, of course not. That's total speculation, a complete nonsequitur, and in my opinion ridiculous. If you think the primary reason that the Amarr militia cannot flip systems is that the Amarr are too busy missioning, you need to spend more time in the war zone.

Really, if anything, the problem with FW now is that there is *too much* plexing. The reason that the Farmatar are an unbreakable brick is that once they hit T4, a vast armada of deplexing farmers have kept the systems easily controlled. Meanwhile, the Amarr would need to take a disproportionate number of plexes to compensate. If the recent weeks have shown anything, it is how utterly screwed they are..

Just like last year, this is going to continue until the Plex farmers are bored or rich enough.

Mission running is completely orthogonal to the problems facing FW. Totally unrelated.

What you quoted from me is 2 questions not an argument let alone a nonsequitur. But the answer to both questions is yes. And the answer is pretty easy to come to. Before inferno missions paid much more than plexes because plexes paid nothing but tags. After inferno there has been many more people running plexes and many more fights in plexes.


I never suggested Amarr spend too much time running amarr fw missions that is why they are not flipping systems. You might want to read what I actually wrote.

Most people in amarr don't care about tiers because it's easy to put an alt in minmatar and run missions. I have been in the warzone and there are allot of purifiers. They are allot of alts but the mains are not necessarily in minmatar.

You will occasionally get a push like huola for the lulz but thats about it. Its a rare person that cares about the entire tier system. I think the last person I knew that cared about it recently biomassed his character.

There are many reasons that amarr do not bother to plex and flip systems and gain tiers among them are: 1) is that it is very boring because if you really want to gain tiers you will run plexes as efficiently as possible and that means running them in quiet systems. 2) There really is no reason to gain tiers when you can just put an alt in minmatar and run their fw missions for lp and make much more of it than you ever could plexing.




Do you know what the calculation for lp for dplexing is?


If missions were removed and the only way to get fw lp was to run plexes you would see a very clear change in plexing and how militias fight for tiers.


I am not saying I think that would be a good idea necessarily, but I don't agree that missions have no effect on fw at large .