I underlined the part I consider very important to this change.

People and Devs have already noted how copying is a choke point in the invention and production, also having jobs that complete in a little more than hour mean two things:

1) After 4 hours you have burned out your 2 days and 15 hours of copy job, leaving you with 2 days and 11 of inactive research lines

2) Having jobs that complete in 1 hour mean you have to be actually there to setup new jobs every hour

Now, I don't know what people consider and percieves as "fun and interesting", but logging in game to setup 8 research jobs every hour, on multiple account (if you are one of those high sec, single player, multi alt industrial corps) is not a compelling game style, probably just a step above mining.

This change will make research closer to prize the decision making process (what, when and where) rather than being simply there 23/7 setting up jobs, also having to log twice a day to setup jobs will make industry easier to manage to new players and/or simply people that wish to try out this aspect of the game.

However, this wont make the industry any easier or forgiving, remember that now the BPO that most corp keep locked in their hangars are going to start travel in new eden..

I want to conclude this post expressing my concern about this last point, as I'm not totally sure that BPOs are going to running around as much as CCP wish. First, even a humble inventor like me has in its hangars thousand of BPC, max run, made during years of industry; with the changes to invention, it will take a year or more before I finish those BPC. Second, to be on the safe side, I'll probably accept the increased cost of copying a BP in a station rather than risking it into a gate camp, assuming the cost of the BP is relevant, like in the case of battleship, capital component and alike.

Instead of proposing something like "destroy all the BPC!", I wanted to suggest something along these lines:

Why don't you allow invention directly from BPO with an increased chance of success over BPC? With this you'll give a reward to risking BPOs (the famous risk vs reward factor of eve), and if people wish to play it safe, they can use their BPC.

Each invention job consumes one run from the BPC, you can still queue up a BPO to create multiple BPCs of multiple runs. Max runs on a given T1 blueprint should take somewhere in the vicinity of 40 hours.

I'm a little bothered with the conversion of ME and TE.


A ME2 BP will be converted in a ME6 BP (from what i see in the sisi client)

preME2 was 3.3% waste and postME6 is 6%

So for a 1000 material needed

Previously, you needed 1033 material. Now it's 1111.111111111...... x0.94 wich is 1044,44444.

Replace the word material with Capital part and you get my point.....


Unless the BP is perfect ME, manufacturing is more expensive in this SiSi build.

Shouldn't preME2 be a postME7 ? (1111.11111111 *.93 = 1033.333)

Do i miss something ?

Apologies for being a bit dense but am I correct in thinking that this means a 1500 run BPC of Hobgoblin I can be used to invent 1500 times?

Apologies for being a bit dense but am I correct in thinking that this means a 1500 run BPC of Hobgoblin I can be used to invent 1500 times?

The post above me is wrong (I think, not sure through the poor grammar).

ie - NO BPO/BPC gets worse

I have not checked in the last three days. But this is, so far not true as far as i can tell.

Perhaps that is the intended function, but it is not how SiSI is behaving.

Yeah, your new ME assumption is wrong

ME0 = 10% waste
ME1 = 9% waste
ME2 = 8% waste
ME3 = 7% waste
ME4 = 6% waste
ME5 = 5% waste
ME6 = 4% waste
ME7 = 3% waste
ME8 = 2% waste
ME9 = 1% waste
ME10 = 0% waste

Your conversion is wrong also

Old ME2 = New ME7

3.3% waste goes to 3% waste

ie - NO BPO/BPC gets worse

All invention jobs will spit out a max-run blueprint. Sorry, should've mentioned that, lots of plates spinning today :)

This is currently not the case on SiSi, have I missed where this is reported? I just finished 10 invention runs and I have 3 - 1 run T2 BPC's... Will not be a happy inventor if I only get 1 run BPC's on the output...

I could have if it was possible :
From : https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Research_and_manufacturing

The ME scale of BP :

ML0 - 10%
ML1 - 5%
ML2 - 3.3%
ML3 - 2.5%
ML10 - 0.9%
ML50 - 0.2%

So, you can only get ME0%/5%/7%/8%, but i got a stock pile of ME6% ...

IMHO :
1- Rounding formulas gone wrong
2-Intended feature to make things a little bit harder for us.. And a tiny lie in the devblog...


preME2 > postME6 is a loss of BP efficiency...

now with using only one run from a T1 BPC to invent a T2 BPC it should be possible to allow multi run invention jobs. Is that planned in the near future?

It has been hinted at, as far as that this is kinda the first step in invention and that might be the second... ie put in a 10 run BPC and do 10 invention jobs in a row, but no one has come out and said it as far as I know

I think it is more along the lines of that is what they are envisioning for this post Crius invention overhaul, but they haven't looked f it is possible or feasible yet.

...

Will be fixed this week.

...

Not for Crius, but possibly for the Invention release later this year. We agree it would be pretty cool.

6% BPC is ME4

Please use terminology so we all understand please

Also, what was the BPC on TQ prior to conversion

what bpc, what ME/PE etc. the more info the better

In other words; as a stationbuilder, is my current station stock going to get devalued due the new ME changes and/or can i get a reimbursement for this if this is going to happen?

yes, no

Invention times are now half T2 build time plus T1 copy and invent time, for the relevant quantities, so the two roughly line up

Why increased the production time of capital ships? +11% minerals for capital components, +some components is increased. Now more and more building time.

Obelisk bpc

TQ:
ME=4/TE=2
Production time 12d 20h 08m (with my skills/implants 9d 20h 29m)

Sing
ME=8/TE=14
Production time 14d 14h 17m (with my skills/implants 11d 05h 01m), and in the industry window 11d 11h 12m.

Additionally ~2 days? In the devblog has been said about the increase of the materials, but says nothing about increasing the building time of cap ships.

This is quite bad for inventions. So now I need 2+ toons to install inventions for every 1 toon that does manufacturing?

In a small corp of a few people, current invention lines are not backlogged more than about an hour. Which means 2h until invention at any time, generally, 0 wait time.

With new times, there is no wait time but throughput is reduced to 1 per 4-8h? So if inventions are 50%, you expect everyone to wait 8h until they can click something again?? Have you guys actually though through this based on <100% success rates?

Either make invention success rates 100% with skills going to reduce datacores,

• each datacore becomes 100 or 1000 datacores
• multiply everything by same number and decrease volumes
• invention skills now reduce datacore usage, instead of invention success rates. Same result but now balanced with manufacturing. 10 inventions one day become 10 manufacturing jobs the next. Instead of most manufacturing jobs being idled.

or go back to 2h inventions for modules until you can fix inventions next time around.

Copying has never been a bottleneck for inventions anyway. 1 copying/T1 manufacturing toon can make enough copies for 5 invention/T2 characters.