The purpose of doing this is precisely so that you *don't* need different numbers of characters on the research and build times. Please do note that copy times for modules have gone up pretty considerably. Assuming that research jobs are interchangeable (cross-skilling from copying to invention or vice versa should be easy), you will need approximately one research character for every manufacturing character, before bonuses.

So what is happening here?

- Yes, there are issues with throughput and online/offline time currently, this is something we are looking to address in future invention changes

Hello citizens of Singularity,
-- T2 material costs increased by 1.5/0.9 to compensate for invention ME changes; this number is incorrect and will be fixed soon
-- T2 items currently require 2x the T1 item; this is incorrect and will be fixed soon
***SHOWINFO IS NOT ACCURATE***

-- Copy should be 80% of build time

So my entire build time was this.
4 days for copying 20 BPCs
2 hrs for Invention
Then 11.5 hrs for building and thats at a 50% invention success to T2 BPCs

On SiSi it is 25 days for copying 20 BPCs
and then its going to be 600 hours of copying, 13.5 hours of Inventention / building....thats 98% of my build time is copying....please explain this benefit for building T2 from invented BPCs


So we went from 109.5 Hours for copy/invent/build to 613.5

Copying WAS 80% of the build time for equipment now SiSi just jacked it up atleast 6 times....so if 25 days is 80% of the copy time its going to take 30 days to build 100 mods...so we went from 650+ mods a month to 100...

Please point out where I am missing the point of the new easier UI that I will use 15 times a month?

*Note I don't know the full build/invent times yet as I'm still copying

Any update on the ToDo list ?

With 1 run T2 BPC only + manufacturing time increase on almost all ship (from inty 6 times longer to JF twice the time), we can expect a massiv shortage on popular ship around...

With the reduced margin (job cost increase, material cost increased, manufactring time increase), the T2 market is going skyrocket..

Question

How will cost of research be affected in a system with 10 Station were you can research compared to a system with only 1?

Cost of ME research on BPOs is currently horribly broken on the test server. About a week ago, I was doing some checking, and to research a thanatos bpo from ME 0 to ME 10 cost roughly 660mil~ not fluctuating much depending on which station I did the research at. Seems a bit steep, but whatever.

Logged in today, price for the same job is now 7 billion to 49 billion isk, to research the thanatos bpo to ME 10. This is with a VERY low system cost index, 0% tax rate, and has held true through nearly all the stations I checked in Branch, Venal, Tenal, Vale of the Silent, Perrigen Falls, Malpais, and Oasa.

Cost seems to be normal and working on manufacturing job prices, as well as copying, just ME and PE research are horribly skewed.

Titan bpos are currently free to research, but most of the other capital ship bpos are way off.
Capital component bpos seem to be within 'reasonable' price ranges (50-100mil to research to Perfect ME)

Research costs scale based on time; base cost is for level 1, and higher levels cost-scale based on what multiple of level 1 time they take. This means that you have significant decisions to make about whether or not (and where!) to research high-end blueprints to high levels.

New players being able to participate in some manufacturing is important, but that doesn't mean they should have access to every part of it. They can't fly a titan on day 1, and they may not be able to afford to buy and research high-value blueprints. That's just the way it is.

Something to be aware of, pretty much all of the cost values on Singularity are garbage at this point because they are scaled based on activity, of which there is very little on the test server.

Our own simulations from TQ data put the estimated cost for manufacturing somewhere between 0-15% of the manufactured goods depending on where you build it. Research / Invention costs are a little trickier to calculate, but I have a developer blog coming out next week which will describe the cost formula in detail for those looking to update their spreadsheets.

That sounds more reasonable. I am surprised, though, that the prices are so out of line on Sisi. I was of the impression that less activity, better cost. But you made it so that:

No activity in a system -> Terrible cost
Some activity -> barely acceptable cost
High activity -> Terrible cost

?

Research costs scale based on time; base cost is for level 1, and higher levels cost-scale based on what multiple of level 1 time they take. This means that you have significant decisions to make about whether or not (and where!) to research high-end blueprints to high levels.

Hold on just a moment there, you're telling me that researching a blueprint that costs roughly a billion isk (capital component bpo) to ME 10 over the course of ~100 days for ~100mil, whereas another blueprint that costs roughly 1.1bil (carrier blueprint) to ME 10 over the course of ~300 days, for ~7-50 billion isk, is intended?

Probably not. Judging by CCP Nullarbor's last 2 posts, it is the case on Sisi because there's not enough jobs running, and that it will be significantly lower on TQ. Remains to be seen how that pans out.

I sure hope that I don't need to pay ~12B to research a BS BPO to max levels. ^^

New players being able to participate in some manufacturing is important, but that doesn't mean they should have access to every part of it. They can't fly a titan on day 1, and they may not be able to afford to buy and research high-value blueprints. That's just the way it is.

Did a quick skim - couldn't see this mentioned anywhere.

Might be nice to be able to see mats for invention on a BPO in show-info? Having it greyed out on a BPO makes sense in terms of starting it - but not in terms of getting information I think?

Something to be aware of, pretty much all of the cost values on Singularity are garbage at this point because they are scaled based on activity, of which there is very little on the test server.

Thing is, most bpos require a reasonable amount of isk to research to max levels. I can check a BS later, but I'd be willing to bet it's under 120mil, it's just actual capital ship bpos which have their research costs set to insane values that noone would ever pay. But let's suppose for a moment, that costs ARE actually working as intended for carrier bpos, that means an archon BPO costs around 4 billion isk to research from ME 9 to ME 10. ME 9 to ME 10, when you are producing out of a single upgraded amarr station, or out of a POS, is a savings of 2 components on that Archon (7 if you have no ME bonus from pos or station). So, at lets say 12mil per component, we're looking at a savings of 24 mil per run. 7 1/4 days per run puts us at 4 per month, or 48 per year. That's 1152m per year.

Return on investment under current figures puts researching an archon from ME 9 to ME 10 at 3 1/2 years just to break even. Clearly something is broken, or max researched capital bpos are supposed to be the new Tech 2 bpos.

There's no specific intent about costs, the system is set up to scale things in a way we believe is generally coherent without much/any special-casing. Numbers will obviously pan out differently on TQ due to different usage patterns. That said, if there are some things where certain investments end up having extremely long pay-off times, that's not a thing we're necessarily unhappy with, both because some players *are* in it for the real long haul and because places where there are legitimate decisions about whether or not something's worth it are interesting and valuable, particularly when they're concentrated in areas of the game that are essentially only accessible to experienced, veteran players. If you're buying cap ship BPOs, you should be sufficiently competent at industry that you can evaluate how far to research a given blueprint without guidance (explicit or implicit) from us :)