Since 6.4 update, it's really hard for frigates and destroyers to destroy these cruisers in med outpost--only algos and catalyst can do it.
I know CCP wanna to encourage pvp fitting rather than stable core, and also encourage players to drive bigger ships.
However, given that the pvp situation in low sec, small ships are still the mainstream in these areas.

So, I think it is better to reduce the frequency of fw ships and reduce the repair capacity. Change the stable core: fitting a core will reduce 30% dps!

Since 6.4 update, it's really hard for frigates and destroyers to destroy these cruisers in med outpost--only algos and catalyst can do it.
I know CCP wanna to encourage pvp fitting rather than stable core, and also encourage players to drive bigger ships.
However, given that the pvp situation in low sec, small ships are still the mainstream in these areas.

So, I think it is better to reduce the frequency of fw ships and reduce the repair capacity. Change the stable core: fitting a core will reduce 30% dps!

Since 6.4 update, it's really hard for frigates and destroyers to destroy these cruisers in med outpost--only algos and catalyst can do it.
I know CCP wanna to encourage pvp fitting rather than stable core, and also encourage players to drive bigger ships.
However, given that the pvp situation in low sec, small ships are still the mainstream in these areas.

So, I think it is better to reduce the frequency of fw ships and reduce the repair capacity. Change the stable core: fitting a core will reduce 30% dps!

Mission Status: Accomplished.

Since 6.4 update, it's really hard for frigates and destroyers to destroy these cruisers in med outpost--only algos and catalyst can do it.
I know CCP wanna to encourage pvp fitting rather than stable core, and also encourage players to drive bigger ships.
However, given that the pvp situation in low sec, small ships are still the mainstream in these areas.

So, I think it is better to reduce the frequency of fw ships and reduce the repair capacity. Change the stable core: fitting a core will reduce 30% dps!

stick with the right plex size for your ship. Mediums where never intended to be soloed by a single frig.

Disagree totally with OP, I think its working great. I really like what they did to the plexes. If you are going to take medium you should bring your friends or a bigger ship than a frigate.

The Farmer tears has been plenty and its great to see. Now we just need to nerf the main ISK source for the Farmers which is the Missions. Faction warfare is going in the right direction and im overjoyed about it!

The change is stupid and it has turned FW into Pve.

You will kill so many rats before you get a fight or the timer runs out it feels like I am a mission runner. Seriously.

You will need a back up ammo hauler. Not lying.

No more fun t1 support frigs flying around. They cant handle the novice rats optimally. Just because you can kill 1 of these rats does not mean you have the staying power to kill the next 12. You will be at half armor and no shields by the timer the timer ticks or you get someone to fight.

No one wants this bullshit. The system is AWFUL. Its not working as intended because if it was it would not be deterring solo pvp. Right now no one wants to sit in an offensive plex only to be added on by a rat during the fight. Thats bullshit. This is a PVP mechanic, not PVE and right now you get more PVE than PVP.

How the **** is that working as intended.

Fact is if you are not in FW you do not know how awful this change is and you are in no way relevant to the conversation.

I don't think this can really be said to have had the intended effect. I still see plenty of stabbed farmers - they just tend to be d-plexing. So, it nerfed their income a little (which is fine), but it didn't persuade them to fit actual combat ships and pewpew.

Meanwhile, the increased DPS of the plex rats means o-plexers are less inclined to stick around for a fight. They're actually less inclined to pewpew.

I have almost half of the pvp I had before Kronos INSIDE plexes.

Not sure that this is correct. The changes were intended to nerf farming, not make it impossible - the shift to deplexing was entirely foreseeable. And it's not a small nerf, either... with a 25% penalty base and multiplied by the low contested percentages across the warzones these days, you're looking at roughly 20-35% of pre-Kronos LP/hour IF NOT LESS. Losing 65-80%+ of your LP/hour is a HUGE hit to your income.

I can't imagine why you would think anything you just said was, in any way, relevant to what I actually said.

Me: This has reduced pew. There is less "war" in "faction war" now.

You: BLERRRRG FARMING INCOME!

It doesn't matter that stabbed plexing pays less, because it's obviously still attractive enough that plenty of people still do it. Simply nerfing their income hasn't convinced them to participate as combatants.

I may be giving the average forum poster far too much credit, in assuming that they have been following the various threads on these changes and can understand what I actually typed, instead of assuming that I can psychically intuit the hidden meaning behind their post.

Your new on these forums aren't you ?

Nope, been counseled regarding my optimistic outlook for reasoned debate several times. Doesn't stick.

FW is getting better as we speak.

Tons of fights in and around plexes.

Afk farmers went to null - many null bears now run missions to pay fpr their null careers.

Disagree totally with OP, I think its working great. I really like what they did to the plexes. If you are going to take medium you should bring your friends or a bigger ship than a frigate.

The Farmer tears has been plenty and its great to see. Now we just need to nerf the main ISK source for the Farmers which is the Missions. Faction warfare is going in the right direction and im overjoyed about it!

QQ

You form a fleet to do offensive plexing with T1 frigs to be able to run novices. Sooner or later you will run out of novices and smalls to plex. The enemy forms cruisers and you have to go reship to cruisers just to see the hostile running away.

So you run the med and large... woops ... now its only small and novice again... burn 10jumps back. grab a frig to run a single site with your 10-20 man fleet.

I find it hilarious that a Fweddit guy complains about rats when they avoided defensive plexing by living outside the warzone.
Adapt, die, or continue to whine on the forums.

If you are a kitey nanofag just interested in solo fights (read: pointing ab-fit brawlers at range and getting lunch while your 50 dps garmur kills him slowly), then fight outside ANY plex or fight inside a defensive plex. Those dudes warping to your plex don't know whether you're inside or out, and you're still pretty much safe and can GTFO whenever you want.

At this point most of my engagements are outside the outposts.

This is the dumbest comment I have ever heard. Most T1 frigs CAN NOT solo the novice plex effectively anymore. Dont believe me? Try it. Tell me how you far and what ship you tried.

There are only 3-4 optimal t1 frigs for novice plexes now.

But your right. Thats working as intended...

The change is stupid and it has turned FW into Pve.

You will kill so many rats before you get a fight or the timer runs out it feels like I am a mission runner. Seriously.

You will need a back up ammo hauler. Not lying.

No more fun t1 support frigs flying around. They cant handle the novice rats optimally. Just because you can kill 1 of these rats does not mean you have the staying power to kill the next 12. You will be at half armor and no shields by the timer the timer ticks or you get someone to fight.

No one wants this bullshit. The system is AWFUL. Its not working as intended because if it was it would not be deterring solo pvp. Right now no one wants to sit in an offensive plex only to be added on by a rat during the fight. Thats bullshit. This is a PVP mechanic, not PVE and right now you get more PVE than PVP.

How the **** is that working as intended.

Fact is if you are not in FW you do not know how awful this change is and you are in no way relevant to the conversation.

Not sure that this is correct. The changes were intended to nerf farming, not make it impossible - the shift to deplexing was entirely foreseeable. And it's not a small nerf, either... with a 25% penalty base and multiplied by the low contested percentages across the warzones these days, you're looking at roughly 20-35% of pre-Kronos LP/hour IF NOT LESS. Losing 65-80%+ of your LP/hour is a HUGE hit to your income.

For Minmatar, at Tier 4, only 14/57 systems are in double digits contested percentage. Even at Tier 4, plexing at 10% contested is 7.5% of 250%, or 18.75% of Tier 2 rewards. That SUCKS. Even deplexing for Gallente is only going to earn you 30-40% of Tier 2 base rewards. For Amarr and Caldari, it's almost not even worth it at all.

Even if they're offensive plexing, by making it harder to run larger plexes and take longer in general, I'd bet that even offensive plexing has taken a 30%+ hit to income on average.

I've not noticed the NPCs getting their DPS buffed, though they definitely tank a lot harder these days.

Common sense

....stuff...

I have noticed that its harder to put a system into contestation.

I think the real problem is that the plexes should really have a corresponding % increase upon completion.

.7% for completing a Large plex is a bit ridiculous it should be more.

No, that would encourage an imbalance towards larger ships. FW is about small gang and small ships. You already get more LP for doing larger sites which should be enough.

How does it create an imbalance? You can take a large plex with small ships and you can take large ships with small ships.

I think that the mechanic should go further and decrease the plex time based on the number of ships you have on the plex just like absoutely EVERY other CTF/Control Point style game you've ever played. It doesn't have to be something drastic but it could maybe reduce the time grinding plexes by 25-30% i.e. instead of 20 minutes on a plex an 8 man gang could plex it in 15 minuntes

In my opinion it needs to be more about forcing the systems into contestation faster rather than these multiple week long grind fests that the mechanic forces people into now.

As it stands now it's not Faction Warfare as much as Faction Grindfest

You've just set a pretty high bar for the July FW Epic Whine Awards.

Try splitting your fleet.

People that cannot think of a proper argument tend to insult ;)

ou've just set a pretty high bar for the July FW Epic Whine Awards.

and then keep loosing stuff like you do ? :p

I only subbed after reading a simular thread.

Ahahah the irony. Too good.

We are done - You're a complete ******** as far as I'm concerned and nothing you say or do will redeem or alter my opinion of you.

If a FC wants to let you fly with them too thats their choice - unlike you If I have an issue with someone I won't go throwing tantrums kicking people from comms, or go sending hate mail about how they will never be welcome in any fleet my character is booster in... I'm a bit more mature than you.
Instead I'll continue to enjoy my time in militia as happily and placidly as I did long ago when you were busy farming lvl 4s in highsec.

It just amuses me to see you lecturing people on risk and telling them to go PVP in highsec when we all know you're just a gobby risk averse highsec bear come to lowsec armed with EFT and a maxed out booster.

If you can't see the irony in your comment above then ok - more to be amused about.

To the above suggestion:
I really like it, but system contested rates need to be able to drop by significant amount if the system is being actively defended. Say you're defending a system, and you kick out the invaders in every plex except the novice. Under your system, the contest rate will still rise. Which is bad as you can lose a system even when winning 75% of the plexes.

OMG so happy to see the tears and the changes yay

and thats why you switched to one of the worst null sec alliances ?

Running plexes and not missions. I hope none of you guys seriously does that.

***Lots of really good stuff***

Offensive plexing is about half the LP/hour with about 1/10 the effort. It's a good tradeoff for folks with limited time on hand, or those of us who actually have to put real ships on the line to run missions, or for newer folks without the requisite skills to mission well.

+ the PvP that plexing routinely generates.

Sure, but Gorski Car's point was that plexing is suboptimal from an income generating standpoint. Those of us who plex to gain LP while we PvP aren't looking for efficiency in that way. Other than that, he's right when it comes to pure LP/hour, though LP/effort and LP/isk at risk is a different matter.

Running plexes and not missions. I hope none of you guys seriously does that.

2.) Moved to galmil. Not accepted there and missions were not farmable so moved to amarrmil because...ah they thought they can farm amarrmil stuff^^

Changes are exellent ...

Truth. Metrics do not lie.
....
>> the next step should be to ensure that pew'ers can sustain a decent living (read: trying-and-dying) without too much grinding and without having to resort to gimmick fits.

So far I have come up with what follows:...

People complaining about the one at a time npc when in past were dozens w/ECM I find amusing.

The best solution is probably one from the past as we'll.

It used to be the various named plexus .... Outpost Facility. Installation Stronghold Compound varied in amount of npc spawns and their strength. Outpost being easiest compound hardest. Was a real difference between them.

A adjustment like that would still make it possible for newbies to plex outposts while keeping what appears to be current semi effective anti farmer mechanism.

Changes in FW are exellent.

4500+ ship kills in 24 hs - want do you guys want more, pvp wise?

Working as intended -CCP

The link between the recent changes and the even more recent increase in kills seems dubious.

I had nothing to do with the whys or what fors of the huola campaign, but I doubt it went: "ccp made offensive plexing slightly harder, therefore we should go offensive plex huola."

The link between the recent changes and the even more recent increase in kills seems dubious.

I had nothing to do with the whys or what fors of the huola campaign, but I doubt it went: "ccp made offensive plexing slightly harder, therefore we should go offensive plex huola."

Why should it not be possible? CCP have you the tools to handle stabs. Use them.

Bring us the Gate restricted BC complex. NOW!

Why should it not be possible? CCP have you the tools to handle stabs. Use them.

so, basically stabs are the FW version of afk cloak?

Low sec players who don't want stabs want more risk not less. Null sec players who are against afk cloaks want less risk.

You can afk cloak all you want in low sec and no one will care.

Stabs are needed for travel. You have to move assets.


One way would be to disarm weapons when stabs are fitted. Malus on scan res and lock range maybe is not enough. Another way would be to dramatically increase CPU needs - maybe 4 times.

so, basically stabs are the FW version of afk cloak?

why? how the game would be better for that?

I can see where you draw similarities, but no it is not.

Right now the most "productive" way to de-plex if you don't care for internet spaceship violence or your e-honor is to:

1. buy a x4 low slot t1 frig
2. fit it with 4 stabs and 1 MSE (~600k Isk hull included)
3. find a system to de-plex and profit
4. turn up sound to max
5. go bake a cake, do your laundry, watch a movie etc.
6. come back when you hear annoying low-shield sound to warp away or to change plex when it's done
7. cash out your semi-afk LP

If you don't think that this is a problem or a flawed game mechanics then no amount of explaining will change your mind.

I can see where you draw similarities, but no it is not.

Right now the most "productive" way to de-plex if you don't care for internet spaceship violence or your e-honor is to:

1. buy a x4 low slot t1 frig
2. fit it with 4 stabs and 1 MSE (~600k Isk hull included)
3. find a system to de-plex and profit
4. turn up sound to max
5. go bake a cake, do your laundry, watch a movie etc.
6. come back when you hear annoying low-shield sound to warp away or to change plex when it's done
7. cash out your semi-afk LP

If you don't think that this is a problem or a flawed game mechanics then no amount of explaining will change your mind.

I can see where you draw similarities, but no it is not.

Right now the most "productive" way to de-plex if you don't care for internet spaceship violence or your e-honor is to:

1. buy a x4 low slot t1 frig
2. fit it with 4 stabs and 1 MSE (~600k Isk hull included)
3. find a system to de-plex and profit
4. turn up sound to max
5. go bake a cake, do your laundry, watch a movie etc.
6. come back when you hear annoying low-shield sound to warp away or to change plex when it's done
7. cash out your semi-afk LP

If you don't think that this is a problem or a flawed game mechanics then no amount of explaining will change your mind.

Or.... just deny acces to warp gate in FW complex. and for more fun put some kind of bubble that increase align time maybe !!

so they don't touch ability of others ships etc etc as simple as this

Good idea too and more targeted on FW plexes ( coding FW buuton instaed of warp gate which are use in other areas than FW

I agree to this one ;)

FW rats do NOT attack neutrals or pirates. They will only attack the opposing militia and its ally.

the buff to the rats active tank, the higher respawn frequency of the rats are intended to stop players to abuse fw as farmwille.

in this, these changes fail hard.

income now is much more dependend on the ability to kill the rats quickly, and so it now requires a much more pve orientet fit to run the complexes.
personally i never pvp if i am flying a pve fitted ship, and so these changes that where intended to stop farming made me a farmer.


another bad sideeffect is that it now is much harder for newbs to make any money in fw at all. i think this is another very bad effect, as fw always has been a good alternative to higsec security missions for noobs with balls.

now, i wont even talk about the cloaking changes, becuase of cause even tho these changes fail too, the changes to the cloaking mecanics just have no impact whatsoever and at last did not make anything worse. so its pointless to talk about this to much.


tldr:

i hate the changes.. they completely fail in what they intended to acchive.
i think they do more harm then good and are a missed opportunity to improve fw.

Confirm it and bug report it .. doubtful that is the intention. If it is then CCP are doing the hard stuff again

Taking over a system should be hard. You're denying the enemy docking rights. Turn back the rats from being able to chase down nano ships and always hitting. That will fix the kiting dilemma. Other then that I don't understand the complaints.

From 2009 - 2012 the plexes had around four waves of five normal DPS rats coming at you. You now have one fellow armed with a nerf bat and a Kevlar jacket. If it kills farming then mission accomplished.

It just means you have to do something now to earn your lp, that's it. I can still farm away and avoid pvp all I want.

income now is much more dependend on the ability to kill the rats quickly, and so it now requires a much more pve orientet fit to run the complexes.
personally i never pvp if i am flying a pve fitted ship, and so these changes that where intended to stop farming made me a farmer.

so basically just because of a little aspect of the game (defensive plexing in FW) you want to remove the main mobility defence in the whole game?

I'm sorry, what? Please show me where I specifically said that, before we continue.

Stabs are needed for travel. You have to move assets.


One way would be to disarm weapons when stabs are fitted. Malus on scan res and lock range maybe is not enough. Another way would be to dramatically increase CPU needs - maybe 4 times.