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why do we perpetuate the backwards idea that our ships have crews?

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Vincent Gaines Macabre Votum Morsus Mihi 125	Posted - 2011.11.18 16:05:00 - [31] - Quote Merovee wrote: Jonni Favorite wrote: Actually would be cool if your ship had to load up a crew in order to gain full combat readiness. Automatically of course, with some densely populated systems this would be near instant, while remote locations slower, giving a "lost in space" feeling. Add a chance for expert personnel with slight bonuses. Obviously this type of immersion wouldn't appeal to some of you 3d Galaga players out there like ms puffy lips This ^ Also you may pay more for faster loading, the worst your survival record the greater the incentives. The longer you have your ship the more bonuses you will get. etc... Tedious. Just give a small bonus based on the crew's experience. split into several categories: Navigation Gunnery/Missile Engineering Give a specific, small bonus over time- say 1% boost for that ship. You would have to log flight time though, but that shouldn't be too taxing, just a stamp when you undock in the ship and another when you re-dock.
Gazmin VanBurin Go Petition Blizzard 24	Posted - 2011.11.18 16:06:00 - [32] - Quote Karn Dulake wrote: There are no crews on our ships apart from ourselves and it makes sense this way. Otherwise why can a suicide ganker constantly find new crew. No crewman would go anywhere near a capsuleers ship. They are constantly in danger and lose a lot of ships yet the capsuleer always escapes and even if he dies he wakes up somewhere else. Whats the going rate of pay for that answer nothing as ive never paid a isk to anyone. suposidly its covered in the cost of the ship. like maybe 2 isk worth of it gose to the crew :D but the crew would not be informed of your mission, nore would you tell them, so if you suicided yourself and they died, they would never have known the wiser. Read the EvE book, "The burning life" it explains it, and its a very good book
Vincent Gaines Macabre Votum Morsus Mihi 125	Posted - 2011.11.18 16:07:00 - [33] - Quote Karn Dulake wrote: There are no crews on our ships apart from ourselves and it makes sense this way. Otherwise why can a suicide ganker constantly find new crew. No crewman would go anywhere near a capsuleers ship. They are constantly in danger and lose a lot of ships yet the capsuleer always escapes and even if he dies he wakes up somewhere else. Whats the going rate of pay for that answer nothing as ive never paid a isk to anyone. All These Lives Are Fit to Ruin Quote: Parien said. "I expect your aim was to empty them of their valuables." "Do you presume to know my thoughts?" "I doubt anyone does, sir," Parien said, regretting it immediately. The words were an insult, and only his weak voice with its supplicant tone carried it through with apparent acceptance on the capsuleer's part. Hands of a Killer Quote: "This is what youGÇÖll face. Madmen locked inside capsules, squandering lives as if they were nothing. When you are up there you are a tool, nothing more. A slave to the will of a pilot, bound to a man immortal until his mind can no longer be cloned."
Aqriue Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation 36	Posted - 2011.11.18 16:08:00 - [34] - Quote I don't have a crew. I don't pay wages or union fees. My life support is never disrupted. I don't hire better crewmembers. So...I don't have a crew. I am a one-man show where the pod is an escape craft, I can walk around freely (except I can't do that in game) and the entire ship is automated, have a few hundred cheap robots that look like the star wars "roger roger" type and some maintence bots that look like roomba's the size of an 18wheeler truck wheel (with googlie eyes attached for effect) that clean up the mess that is the interior of my Vargur (which is just a pile of flying junk, everytime something is repaired it blows up again, some stations charge me disposal fees just for parking, and its true, if you punch holes in something it travels faster aerodynamicly even in space )
Grammaticus DeVere CryoTech Engineering Silent Requiem 1	Posted - 2011.11.18 16:22:00 - [35] - Quote Because there is a massive hole in the skills hierarchy - that of crew skill training. We should be able to skill up our crews in various ways to increase the efficiency of the ship we are flying...but, if we get blown up, we lose a random crew training skill, just the same as a subsystem skill is lost when an T3. More importantly, it could be used to give a random outcome for pierats (remember original pirate crews would regularly mutiny and elect a new captain) - so if a pirate decides to suicide gank, there should be a random chance that his crew will refuse and eject the pilot into space. [Someone refereed to the Eve book " The Burning Life" as a good book - I'd just like to point out that it is in fact the worst spaceship book I think I've ever read - the Empyrean Age wasn't very good either but reads like Shakespear compared to TBL] For good descriptions of how large ships are run by small crews, read the Relevation Space series by Alastair Reynolds - simple the BEST spaceship/sci-fi books G
Wacktopia Sicarius. Legion of The Damned. 34	Posted - 2011.11.18 16:23:00 - [36] - Quote Yeah I think it's something to do with this.
Dr Karsun Coffee Lovers Brewing Club Care Factor 4	Posted - 2011.11.18 16:26:00 - [37] - Quote The ships have crews because machines and nanobots designed purely to keep your ship clean is just too damn expensive. It's cheaper to have hundreds of pitifull little humans who serve us, demigods ruling the skies. They all probably think of it as an adventure. We just know that they are cheaper to maintain and free to replace. "Have you had your morning coffee?" -> the Coffee Lovers Brewing Club is recruiting!
Gazmin VanBurin Go Petition Blizzard 24	Posted - 2011.11.18 16:27:00 - [38] - Quote Grammaticus DeVere wrote: Because there is a massive hole in the skills hierarchy - that of crew skill training. We should be able to skill up our crews in various ways to increase the efficiency of the ship we are flying...but, if we get blown up, we lose a random crew training skill, just the same as a subsystem skill is lost when an T3. More importantly, it could be used to give a random outcome for pierats (remember original pirate crews would regularly mutiny and elect a new captain) - so if a pirate decides to suicide gank, there should be a random chance that his crew will refuse and eject the pilot into space. [Someone refereed to the Eve book " The Burning Life" as a good book - I'd just like to point out that it is in fact the worst spaceship book I think I've ever read - the Empyrean Age wasn't very good either but reads like Shakespear compared to TBL] For good descriptions of how large ships are run by small crews, read the Relevation Space series by Alastair Reynolds - simple the BEST spaceship/sci-fi books G The burning life was a 'good' book for info on eve life styles beyond capiliers, and yes the Empyrean age was kinda bla. I could list off tons of good sci fi books but thats neither here nor there. As for the crew rebeling, i would think not, they would not have the codes to eject you from your own ship, and as I said in a previous post you wouldnt tell they you where on a one way mission, and they wouldn't find out till it was to late.
Mirima Thurander Deventer Exploration An Acquisition 51	Posted - 2011.11.18 16:37:00 - [39] - Quote It makes me feel so warm and fuzzy inside knowing so many people haven't looked at the back story to eve. if more people played EvE as EvE and not omgspaceshipkillboredpointscoreingonline or LOLspredsheatsminmaximastockbrokerandthisisfun i think it would be better for everone I love the the smell of victory in the morning. It smells like... Blood, vomit and burning flesh. I Like You. I'll Kill You Last.
Morganta Peripheral Madness The Midget Mafia 342	Posted - 2011.11.18 16:40:00 - [40] - Quote Mirima Thurander wrote: It makes me feel so warm and fuzzy inside knowing so many people haven't looked at the back story to eve. if more people played EvE as EvE and not omgspaceshipkillboredpointscoreingonline or LOLspredsheatsminmaximastockbrokerandthisisfun i think it would be better for everone yeah... well the back story here is weak and the rest has quite a few plot holes too, but hey it's not a scifi epic, its a back story to a game and in the crew department, its lacking The American public's reaction to the change was poor and the new cola was a major marketing failure. The subsequent reintroduction of Coke's original formula, re-branded as "Coca-Cola Classic", resulted in a significant gain in sales, leading to speculation that the introduction of the New Coke formula was just a marketing ploy

Logan LaMort Black Rebel Rifter Club 1094	Posted - 2011.11.18 16:46:00 - [41] - Quote Of course ships have crews, look at your own ships, look at all those windows beaming with light. Imagine how much cap you'd save by turning off all those lights... so they're obviously in use But seriously, EVE lore has stated crews for a long time and it does make sense. You're a Capsuleer, you can think for the ship to turn or fire your weapons like you would walking and talking, concious actions. But you're still human, and just like your human body there's a lot of actions that need to be done on a ship that you don't control, you don't even really know about. We need crews to do the small things, gunnery crews to reload and transport ammo, engineers to maintain everything, from greasing up the joints to figuring out what's wrong with the capacitor only to find a grilled furrier. Of course you also need janitors, and support staff for the crew, a medic, a chef, that kinda thing. A lot of ships can be flown with no crew however, but only until something breaks down. Not really a concern for suicide gankers, the crew could simply load up the ship and stay in station fiction wise. Also no, we can't use advanced AI and robotics to do these actions, because that's where rogue drones come from. Besides no robot could match the ingenuity of an experienced engineers (Although on Gallente ships a lot of dumb robots carry out simple tasks, same with slaves high on Vitoc in Amarr ships). And yes ships do have escape pods as noted in the chornicles/books, but of course we don't see them because EVE is still a game with graphical limitations that CCP haven't go round to revising yet. As for skills and such relating to gunnery or engineering etc, I've always attributed it to your skill of communicating with your ship and crew through the neural link improving. So for example you're gunnery tracking improves because you're able to digest the sensor information easier and give more accurate commands to the gunnery crew or some crap like that. Finally, the biggest thing you have to remember is that all Capsuleer ships (Except the Jovian ones) are retrofitted regular ships, designed to be used by regular crews. Your pod pretty much replaces the bridge, and it's hooked up to the various ship computers and such, but some actions still need a crew simply because that's how the ship was designed (Also another reason why Capsuleer ships have escape pods).
Vincent Gaines Macabre Votum Morsus Mihi 125	Posted - 2011.11.18 16:48:00 - [42] - Quote Morganta wrote: yeah... well the back story here is weak and the rest has quite a few plot holes too, but hey it's not a scifi epic, its a back story to a game and in the crew department, its lacking I wouldn't say it's weak, it's just thin without the player history. If you take in the fact that every corp is roleplaying even if they don't have that intention it becomes a bit more interesting. Many on here don't know about FA, 5, Ascendent Frontier, The corruption of ISS and its downfall, or even G: Screw EMI for taking down part 1.
Cipher Jones 113	Posted - 2011.11.18 16:49:00 - [43] - Quote TBH heres what happened: in the beginning, one or more devs had the idea a ship had crew. It was on blueprints from beta. They never put it in the game. Then EvE got older, a quarter of a million subs or so, and ppl started asking about the crew that had been alluded to. Since there was no mention of crew post beta, people argued about it on the forums. I was one of the ones that said there was no crew. Then the devs read the arguments, and decided that there was crew, as the arguments that were made on the "for crew" side appealed to them. They decided to put it back in the game. They had plans for implementing it as a mechanic, as per the video you mention. Then they just never put it back in the game, in a true CCP move. Riddle solved. See what happens when fat neckbeards try to ride little ponies? The ponies die.
Ptraci 3 R Corporation 151	Posted - 2011.11.18 17:00:00 - [44] - Quote Cpt Greagor wrote: If something breaks, how will it be fixed? Nanite repair paste, silly.
MNagy Yo-Mama Quixotic Hegemony 29	Posted - 2011.11.18 17:07:00 - [45] - Quote My ships do not have crews. They have slaves that die when the ship goes down. There are many windows on my ships so they can look out into space to see when death is coming. Luckily there is only 1 escape pod on the ship that is reserved for me.
Abdiel Kavash Paladin Order Fidelas Constans 145	Posted - 2011.11.18 17:07:00 - [46] - Quote The man's role is to feed the dog. The dog's role is to bite the man if he ever touches any of the controls.
Nova Fox Novafox Shipyards 358	Posted - 2011.11.18 17:09:00 - [47] - Quote All Jovians ships have multiple crew why can't ours? (though I do say most are in pod like interfaces) And yes crew has been listed as an attribute on the database for years and they are probably just old of a database artifacts as a hellhound (or hellstorm dont remember) I suicide bomb which unrepaired 40k hull and did alot of kinetic damage to nearby people. Or how the bantam had external missile points once upon a time. (finally removed in the fight against lag!) To this day crew are still listed as a hidden attribute but they're not accurate to the table at all. So the question is why have pods? 1 Pods enhance overall ship performance extensivly to the point that your npc ship can sink entire non capsuleer fleets. 2 Reduce crew sizes. Intelligent/competent crew are often the most expensive part of a ship and since your ship is that much more effective you're technically burning though alot less people. 3 Reduce costs Nova Fox Shipyards Inventory
Andski GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 855	Posted - 2011.11.18 17:12:00 - [48] - Quote this isn't world of tanks hth
Bloodpetal Mimidae Risk Solutions 164	Posted - 2011.11.18 17:16:00 - [49] - Quote It tells you what bonus you get from your skills but it doesn't explain the technical nature of "5% more". That 5% could mean you're better at instructing your crews what you need, or getting that information faster to the crew or more efficiency, or it means that you have superior slave whipping technology. All you know and care about is your ship does X, Y and Z 5% better, you don't really care why. NOSTRO AURUM NON EST AURUM VULGI
Jules Wolfpack Aliastra Gallente Federation 0	Posted - 2011.11.18 17:17:00 - [50] - Quote My ships are crewed and I talk to them by having machines I interface pull levers which spits fire and my image floats in the middle of the smoke, which usually scares them into submission. Except, this one time flying my Nightmare, 4 of them came to my chamber and they wanted a heart, some courage, a brain and the girl wanted something called a Kansas. I sent them on a quest to find a broom in the broom closet, which was actually the air lock.

Random Majere The Scope Gallente Federation 0	Posted - 2011.11.18 17:37:00 - [51] - Quote They are not humans but androids .... R2, I need more power!!!
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 1546	Posted - 2011.11.18 17:40:00 - [52] - Quote Morganta wrote: Abdiel Kavash wrote: http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/New_Eden_crew_guidelines Table comes from a fanfest presentation by CCP, which I'm too lazy to look up. It's on the youtubes. honestly? that was terrible, really.... but at lease I know where this silliness started It didn't start there. It startedGÇª ohGÇª somewhere in the early 2000:s when they created the game. You make it sound like this is a new idea, when it's been there since roughly forever. The question is rather GÇ£why do some people try to perpetuate the backwards idea that our ships don't have crews, in spite of it being a long-established part of the loreGÇ¥? That presentation and wiki post was just (yet another) attempt to hammer the message home and finally put an end to the notion that we are alone in our ships. GÇöGÇöGÇö GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ GÇö Karath Piki-á
Nova Fox Novafox Shipyards 358	Posted - 2011.11.18 17:54:00 - [53] - Quote ^ This Also EON magazine repeatedly states crews Nova Fox Shipyards Inventory
Morganta Peripheral Madness The Midget Mafia 342	Posted - 2011.11.18 18:21:00 - [54] - Quote I don't care who says its so, it don't make sense who the heck would sign up for a suicide mission? and in the billions we must have depleted the beings of fighting age in the universe by now, or does that explain the large number of pr0stitutes people have today? but really does my crew consist entirely of Jebediah Kerman clones? The American public's reaction to the change was poor and the new cola was a major marketing failure. The subsequent reintroduction of Coke's original formula, re-branded as "Coca-Cola Classic", resulted in a significant gain in sales, leading to speculation that the introduction of the New Coke formula was just a marketing ploy
Aldan Romar Imperial Academy 40	Posted - 2011.11.18 18:27:00 - [55] - Quote I don't know about your ships, but my ships have crews. Also, in my ships I stand on my bridge and don't float in a goo. I respect CCP's efforts to tie game mechanics into the background - and a smooth tie in at that. But I tend to ignore that part of the background. So give me crew, give me bridges, battle bridges, navigation centers, engineering sections, and escape pods.
Opertone Signal 7 11	Posted - 2011.11.18 18:34:00 - [56] - Quote Guys like this are your crew This is you You may not know it, but you look this bad when you are in a pod, you are the one with the brain. Your crew is brainless. You both are expendable, worth little more than a badger load of minerals. Your life has a price, your soul can be bought or traded over a fine Machariel, or Capital ship.
Nova Fox Novafox Shipyards 359	Posted - 2011.11.18 18:35:00 - [57] - Quote What doesnt make sense is you dont account for thier paychecks. Crew service aboard a capsuleer ship is one of the highest paying labor jobs in the galaxy. Families can get up to 120,000 isk on term insurance alone which in commoner terms is comfortable retirment house paid for and food to last forever and sending the kids to schools. Same reason why terrorist organizations can continiously recruit suicide bombers outside of religous duty. enough money to make sure thier family is secure. Also your agents and stations cover this portion of management up nicely for you. One of the perks of being a pod captain. Nova Fox Shipyards Inventory
Dragon Outlaw The Scope Gallente Federation 0	Posted - 2011.11.18 18:36:00 - [58] - Quote Aldan Romar wrote: I don't know about your ships, but my ships have crews. Also, in my ships I stand on my bridge and don't float in a goo. I respect CCP's efforts to tie game mechanics into the background - and a smooth tie in at that. But I tend to ignore that part of the background. So give me crew, give me bridges, battle bridges, navigation centers, engineering sections, and escape pods. On my ship, my crew are fembots and they do everything I tell them to do.
Gealbhan Celestial Horizon Corp. Flatline. 70	Posted - 2011.11.18 19:28:00 - [59] - Quote All my ships have crews and I encourage them to breed like rabbits so I drop segments of them off at habitable planets. Seeing as I am immortal I have all of eternity to slowly sow the seeds of a 5th (6th if you count Jove) empire right under your noses. Muahahahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!!!!!!!11!!!one!!1!
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops 1549	Posted - 2011.11.18 19:33:00 - [60] - Quote Morganta wrote: I don't care who says its so, it don't make sense who the heck would sign up for a suicide mission? and in the billions People who have access to escape pods and who get paid well enough to let their families (and possibly themselves) live a life of luxury from there on. GÇöGÇöGÇö GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ GÇö Karath Piki-á



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