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Anthar Thebess
505
|
Posted - 2014.06.16 14:03:00 -
[1] - Quote
Hello. Suggestion is very simple , and i will use crystals as an example. We are not talking about rare versions
Currently we have multiple faction variants of faction ammo, provided by various factions. Lets just compare crystals: - Imperial Navy : https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Imperial_Navy_Multifrequency_L
Quote: EM damage 32.2 HP Thermal damage 23 HP
- Sansha : https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Sanshas_Multifrequency_L
Quote:EM damage 30.8 HP Thermal damage 22 HP - Blood raiders : https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Blood_Multifrequency_L
Quote:EM damage 30.8 HP Thermal damage 22 HP
Like we see , Imperial Navy is better than sansha/blood as it is dealing more damage. My suggestion is to buff pirate ammunition so it is matching in overall dps Imperial Navy one but at the same time make it a bit different so all types of ammunitions will have their use.
Overal damage of Imperial Navy one is 55.2 hp
Using this value why not make sansha ammunition dealing more EM damage , and Blood Thermal ? :
Sansha Crystals :
Quote: EM damage 42.2 HP Thermal damage 13 HP
Blood Crystals
Quote: EM damage 17.2 HP Thermal damage 38 HP
This is just suggestion , as we can difference some other stats. Support Needed : Jump Fuel Consumption |

Fer'isam K'ahn
None Of One
111
|
Posted - 2014.06.16 14:12:00 -
[2] - Quote
I guess there will be others responding to this, but my hint is, check all pirate factions (drak blood e.g.), not all are weaker then the navy factions, depends probably on rarity. If this would be unbalanced it would have come up a long, long time ago.
Though shifting damage types towards certain factions might be worth considering. |

SurrenderMonkey
Space Llama Industries
974
|
Posted - 2014.06.16 14:35:00 -
[3] - Quote
Fer'isam K'ahn wrote:I guess there will be others responding to this, but my hint is, check all pirate factions (drak blood e.g.),
...dude he addressed that 3 lines in.
Quote:We are not talking about rare versions "Help, I'm bored with missions!"
http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/ |

Anthar Thebess
506
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Posted - 2014.06.16 15:44:00 -
[4] - Quote
I'm talking about faction ammo that can be obtained by LP stores. Support Needed : Jump Fuel Consumption |

Hakaari Inkuran
State War Academy Caldari State
38
|
Posted - 2014.06.16 16:40:00 -
[5] - Quote
Stealth nerf to imp navy LP and buff to pirate LP? |

Anthar Thebess
506
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Posted - 2014.06.16 16:44:00 -
[6] - Quote
Hakaari Inkuran wrote:Stealth nerf to imp navy LP and buff to pirate LP? Those crystals are more valuable on market than imperial variants. Support Needed : Jump Fuel Consumption |

Hakaari Inkuran
State War Academy Caldari State
38
|
Posted - 2014.06.16 16:57:00 -
[7] - Quote
Anthar Thebess wrote:Hakaari Inkuran wrote:Stealth nerf to imp navy LP and buff to pirate LP? Those crystals are more valuable on market than imperial variants. Why?
edit: there is literally no reason for it other than plain silliness in buying a more rare item for more just because its rarer. They're less effective. |

Mike Voidstar
Voidstar Free Flight Foundation
665
|
Posted - 2014.06.16 17:05:00 -
[8] - Quote
The various meta levels have been goofy forever. Some rarer/more expensive stuff is weaker than the commonly available tech 2 across the board for tons of items.
I often wonder if we are not still working with placeholder values on a lot of stuff. Its clear that the original concept of the game had a much richer and involved PvE element, and most of it was back burnered or outright abandoned in favor of the pure pvp griefer playstyle. |

Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
1689
|
Posted - 2014.06.16 17:11:00 -
[9] - Quote
ammo-cide to come after meta-cide/module tieracide?
Is there anything more that could be done than mixing up damage ratios? Hybrid charges have lots of variants.
Gurista's with slight optimal/velocity boost? shadow with slight tracking boost? guardian with slight fall off boost?
Though i wonder how OP things can become with faction weapons providing specialised boosts, and then ammo doing the same. EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY?No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided""So it will be up to a pilot to remain vigilant wherever they may be flying and be ready for anything at any time" |

Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
1689
|
Posted - 2014.06.16 17:14:00 -
[10] - Quote
Mike Voidstar wrote: Its clear that the original concept of the game had a much richer and involved PvE element, and most of it was back burnered or outright abandoned in favor of the pure pvp griefer playstyle.
Invitation to derail thread? EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY?No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided""So it will be up to a pilot to remain vigilant wherever they may be flying and be ready for anything at any time" |

RoAnnon
Eternity INC. Goonswarm Federation
325
|
Posted - 2014.06.16 17:45:00 -
[11] - Quote
Hakaari Inkuran wrote:there is literally no reason for it other than plain silliness in buying a more rare item for more just because its rarer.
That's what supply and demand is all about. Effectiveness aside, if something is seen as more rare, the demand for it by some will go up. Value of an item is determined by what someone is willing to pay for it.
I don't see a need for every faction crystal to do exactly the same amount of damage. Variety is the spice of life. :)
So, you're a bounty hunter. No, that ain't it at all. Then what are you? I'm a bounty hunter. |

Anthar Thebess
506
|
Posted - 2014.06.16 20:08:00 -
[12] - Quote
RoAnnon wrote:Hakaari Inkuran wrote:there is literally no reason for it other than plain silliness in buying a more rare item for more just because its rarer. That's what supply and demand is all about. Effectiveness aside, if something is seen as more rare, the demand for it by some will go up. Value of an item is determined by what someone is willing to pay for it. I don't see a need for every faction crystal to do exactly the same amount of damage. Variety is the spice of life. :)
Thats why i suggest to make them different not worst. Support Needed : Jump Fuel Consumption |

Hakaari Inkuran
State War Academy Caldari State
41
|
Posted - 2014.06.16 20:10:00 -
[13] - Quote
RoAnnon wrote:Hakaari Inkuran wrote:there is literally no reason for it other than plain silliness in buying a more rare item for more just because its rarer. That's what supply and demand is all about. Effectiveness aside, if something is seen as more rare, the demand for it by some will go up. Value of an item is determined by what someone is willing to pay for it. I don't see a need for every faction crystal to do exactly the same amount of damage. Variety is the spice of life. :) I dont think a single person is making an ammunition choice based on rarity. Nobody even sees the ammo you're using. I can only conclude that the only trades for those items are accidental. |

Mike Voidstar
Voidstar Free Flight Foundation
665
|
Posted - 2014.06.17 03:53:00 -
[14] - Quote
Accidental, or misinformed/making assumptions.
Logically, the faction varients would have some feature that sets them apart or above, or why would that faction continue to produce them? If its just a paint job on the round and a logo on the crate, why the fuss?
Ideally, I would remove current faction variants (mostly to save the names for something more unique later on), and rename them more along the line of:
Military Grade [ammo type] Mil-Spec Improved Yield [ammo type] Mil-Spec Overcharged [ammo type] Mil-spec Range Enhanced [ammo type] Etc...
Later, if it seems needed, Caldari ammo could be introduced with exceptional range (boring but fitting with the race) or with advanced shield negating warheads that not only do damage but also reduce the targets maximum shield HP for a time which would be more effective against shield logistics and local repair than other races, at no doubt astronomical cost- a field in which the Caldari excel- just as a spitball off the top of my head for instance.
Other ammo could be designed with extreme burst performance in mind-- either granting a huge rate of fire bonus while imparting heat damage, or else adding a small thermal damage compinent to its profile and each shot reducing or repairing an amount of heat damage.
Consider smart munitions-- rounds designed to damage specific systems, perhaps even those not normally vunerable-- they might reduce sensor strength, increase align times, change cycle times on certain modules, and all manner of other unfortunate things that might befall a ship but currently does not.
|

Anthar Thebess
507
|
Posted - 2014.06.17 10:56:00 -
[15] - Quote
I don't want to rename them, just make them different so all different faction ammunition will find its use. Support Needed : Jump Fuel Consumption |

Komodo Askold
No Code of Conduct Fluffeh Bunneh Murder Squad
146
|
Posted - 2014.06.17 11:25:00 -
[16] - Quote
I like this idea of giving each faction ammo type a defined role rather than just the attributes they have now and that the OP has quoted. +1 |

Anthar Thebess
643
|
Posted - 2014.08.08 07:29:00 -
[17] - Quote
Just to Remind about this suggestion. Support Needed : Jump Fuel Consumption Support Needed : Faction Crystal Changes |

Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
871
|
Posted - 2014.08.08 11:27:00 -
[18] - Quote
much needed changes too ammo is hopefully on its way with module tiercide .. which is well overdue Tech 3's need to be multi role ships not cruiser hulls with battleship tank and insane resists ABC's are clearly T2 in all but name.. remove drone assist mechanic. Nerf web strength ..... module tiercide FTW role based instead of tiers please. |

Gully Alex Foyle
Black Fox Marauders Repeat 0ffenders
1739
|
Posted - 2014.08.08 14:01:00 -
[19] - Quote
+1
Either this, or just take them out of the game.
No point in having useless stuff that just clogs markets, fitting tools and CCP databases.
Same point could be made for several faction/deadspace modules. I'm no expert, I almost always just use T2, but when for some (PVP) reason I find it worthwhile to consider fitting pimpier modules, I notice many of them either:
- have the exact same stats as another faction/deadspace mod (or two, or more...!)
- are equal and sometimes even worse than T2
- give a truly negligible stat bonus that absolutely nobody would consider worth the price
So yeah, I hope both ammo and module tiericide gradually happens. Comparing dozens of mods just to find out that 90% of them are useless isn't fun by anyone's definition. EVE Online: Death-o-meter |

Anthar Thebess
644
|
Posted - 2014.08.08 14:10:00 -
[20] - Quote
Faction modules have smaller fitting requirements than T2 versions or are better than T2. Ammo on the other hand it is just worst , when it could be different.
This will not be worst to any one. For example instead of 1 set of crystals , people will be carrying 3. Support Needed : Jump Fuel Consumption Support Needed : Faction Crystal Changes |

Ix Method
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
149
|
Posted - 2014.08.08 15:34:00 -
[21] - Quote
Really agree with this, having ammo in nullsec LP stores that is shitter than the stuff you can bring in from empire doesn't really make sense. Travelling at the speed of love. |

Linkxsc162534
Traps 'R' Us
91
|
Posted - 2014.08.08 16:38:00 -
[22] - Quote
I don't support taht 1 guys suggestion of naming. But I do seriously like the idea of mixing up the different ammo types. Hybrid charges and lasers particularly have several factions that make them.
My thoughts, split up Caldari Navy, and Federation Navy hybrid ammos, give them slightly different abilities. The Gurista and Shadow ammos different. EOM could be added as a really rare 1 (same with missiles) Imp navy, and Republic fleet don't have matching ammos.... not much to do for that.
|

Jacid
Anomalous Existence Low-Class
56
|
Posted - 2014.08.08 20:45:00 -
[23] - Quote
A good idea make having different types of ammo a strategic decision +1 devs should see this |

Anthar Thebess
647
|
Posted - 2014.08.08 22:02:00 -
[24] - Quote
Thank you for support need more. Support Needed : Jump Fuel Consumption Support Needed : Faction Crystal Changes |

Sobaan Tali
Caldari Quick Reaction Force
332
|
Posted - 2014.08.09 08:25:00 -
[25] - Quote
I'd have to agree with what the OP is saying with respects to the notion that multiple variants of the same module/charge type differing only in name and place of procurement is a little awkward. Balance in terms of practical stats among individual variants, not just among different mods/charges, are definitely odd in some places and could use a looking into.
I am rather interested in the idea of adding some variety in their stats; variety without really altering their overall performance. For instance, changing somewhat the range penalty or activation cost penalty in some of the rarer faction frequency crystals could be interesting. Example, IN Multi and Blood Multi maintains their current stats and balance, Blood of course doing less damage, but changing Blood Multi to have a slightly smaller range penalty, use a little less cap, or maybe even slightly smaller volatility damage to make it last a little longer. Altering the damage type ratios without altering the overall raw damage amount could also be, as has been suggested, entertaining.
Edit; forgot to +1 for support. I really like this idea quite a bit, now that I think of it. |

Karak Bol
Low-Sec Survival Ltd.
194
|
Posted - 2014.08.09 08:42:00 -
[26] - Quote
I support this, more strateginterestingic decisions are always good |

NEONOVUS
Diabolically Sexy Eureka-Secret Science R Us
890
|
Posted - 2014.08.09 14:35:00 -
[27] - Quote
Linkxsc162534 wrote:I don't support taht 1 guys suggestion of naming. But I do seriously like the idea of mixing up the different ammo types. Hybrid charges and lasers particularly have several factions that make them.
My thoughts, split up Caldari Navy, and Federation Navy hybrid ammos, give them slightly different abilities. The Gurista and Shadow ammos different. EOM could be added as a really rare 1 (same with missiles) Imp navy, and Republic fleet don't have matching ammos.... not much to do for that.
I would personally say get rid of the duplicate ammos So only federation and linked pirates do hybrids, only Caldari and linked do missiles This way you dont have the database copies and make the LP more unique. |

Sobaan Tali
Caldari Quick Reaction Force
332
|
Posted - 2014.08.09 16:28:00 -
[28] - Quote
NEONOVUS wrote:Linkxsc162534 wrote:I don't support taht 1 guys suggestion of naming. But I do seriously like the idea of mixing up the different ammo types. Hybrid charges and lasers particularly have several factions that make them.
My thoughts, split up Caldari Navy, and Federation Navy hybrid ammos, give them slightly different abilities. The Gurista and Shadow ammos different. EOM could be added as a really rare 1 (same with missiles) Imp navy, and Republic fleet don't have matching ammos.... not much to do for that.
I would personally say get rid of the duplicate ammos So only federation and linked pirates do hybrids, only Caldari and linked do missiles This way you dont have the database copies and make the LP more unique.
Not to be rude, but that doesn't really make sense.
You do know Caldari and Guristas use hybrids as well, not just missiles, right (see Naga, Rokh, Ferox, Vulture, Moa, Merlin, etc.)? And the only faction missiles are from Caldari and Guristas. The only faction ammo are from groups who in fact would use their associated weapons (Personally, I find it a bit odd that there are no Republic Fleet missiles considering there are some Minmatar missile boats).
Come to think of it, if you just want to have some of the faction charges removed for sake of database clutter and item uniqueness, let me point out some things to consider. Removing some of the faction ammo wouldn't really make the remaining ones more unique, just fewer sources of faction ammo in general. As far as the whole "database copies" reference, what the OP is suggesting would actually solve that by taking the "carbon copies" (Blood/Sansha or Dark Blood/True Sansha for instance) and giving them some unique quirks that set them apart from the others within the same group. They don't really need to be comparatively more or less powerful either, just have some creative attributes to give them some unique flavor |

Linkxsc162534
Traps 'R' Us
92
|
Posted - 2014.08.09 16:51:00 -
[29] - Quote
Sobaan Tali wrote:NEONOVUS wrote:Linkxsc162534 wrote:I don't support taht 1 guys suggestion of naming. But I do seriously like the idea of mixing up the different ammo types. Hybrid charges and lasers particularly have several factions that make them.
My thoughts, split up Caldari Navy, and Federation Navy hybrid ammos, give them slightly different abilities. The Gurista and Shadow ammos different. EOM could be added as a really rare 1 (same with missiles) Imp navy, and Republic fleet don't have matching ammos.... not much to do for that.
I would personally say get rid of the duplicate ammos So only federation and linked pirates do hybrids, only Caldari and linked do missiles This way you dont have the database copies and make the LP more unique. Not to be rude, but that doesn't really make sense. You do know Caldari and Guristas use hybrids as well, not just missiles, right (see Naga, Rokh, Ferox, Vulture, Moa, Merlin, etc.)? And the only faction missiles are from Caldari and Guristas. The only faction ammo are from groups who in fact would use their associated weapons (Personally, I find it a bit odd that there are no Republic Fleet missiles considering there are some Minmatar missile boats). Come to think of it, if you just want to have some of the faction charges removed for sake of database clutter and item uniqueness, let me point out some things to consider. Removing some of the faction ammo wouldn't really make the remaining ones more unique, just fewer sources of faction ammo in general. As far as the whole "database copies" reference, what the OP is suggesting would actually solve that by taking the "carbon copies" (Blood/Sansha or Dark Blood/True Sansha for instance) and giving them some unique quirks that set them apart from the others within the same group. They don't really need to be comparatively more or less powerful either, just have some creative attributes to give them some unique flavor
NO. Caldari an Gallante are the only navies that use Hybrids. Above that there are Guristas and Shadow, pirate ammos, and then theres Dread Gurista, and Guardian hybrid ammo. Each pair makes up a "rarity tier" Faction navy being msot common, then the pirate, then the rare pirate. I feel that on each tier, they should have differening capabilities, and then perhaps as the tiers rize, those trends could be followed.
My suggestion for hybrids would be make 1 with a different damage layout (high kin at close range, higher therm at long) so that way a blaster boat could conceivably do therm damage at range (gives the player a little more control over damage type on the ammo that so far gives literally no control on damage type.
Missiles currently are the realm of Caldari and gruista... and I don't really feel that they really need differences between the ammos, although if they added missiles to the republic fleet, and maybe angels, or mercs, or for a rare, drop from EOM ships. 1 faction CN, could be the hardest hitting, give RF an application bonus? Who knows.
Amarr is the only navy to use lasers, but theres 2 pirate ammos. They could do another, 1 follows regular damage layout (therm>em) the other could do the opposite (em>therm)
Matar, and angels are the only ones again who use projectiles... dunno. |

Anthar Thebess
652
|
Posted - 2014.08.09 18:17:00 -
[30] - Quote
Currently we have new faction that use crystals, so it could have some version of it in LP store : SOE. SOE ships use lasers - so they could use their own crystals.
So would not limit number of faction ammo type.
If eve is real ... when you have ship that use some weapon system , would you import ammunition, or try to make it by yourself?
I think , all base ammo should have the same base damage , but at the same their profile should be shifted a little bit. For example Caldari hybrids doing more kinetic damage and Gallente more thermal.
Pirate version could go much more in some of the directions or have some bonuses and drawbacks.
Now this ammo is unused and from my perspective all ammo should have some niche to fill in perfectly. Support Needed : Jump Fuel Consumption Support Needed : Faction Crystal Changes |
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