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Alundil
Rolled Out
558
|
Posted - 2014.06.16 22:19:00 -
[1] - Quote
** Searched the forums and didn't see anything like this **
Story time: CCP's stance is "There ought to be risk attached to benefits". Currently, off grid boosting via "un-probable" Strategic Cruisers presents a very low risk in comparison to the benefits they provide and is therefore not in line with that stance. Changes to scanning mechanics in Incarna sought to address the sigres to sensor strength issue with some minor success. Ships were still close enough to un-probable that it took minutes (and/or multiple scan passes) to pinpoint, or very specialized implants. The end result of this change was 1) nothing for the people running boosters from the safety of a pos = no risk 2) nothing for the people not in possession of max skill scanner + virues = no risk or 3) vast majority of booster ships having ample time to cloak up as soon as combats are out = low risk.
CCP wasn't happy with this and so released some changes that prohibited warfare links from operating from inside a POS shield. This was a step in the right direction, however it did nothing to address points 2 or 3 above. To address those, CCP has stated a goal of forcing warfare links "on grid" at some to be determined time = in other words Soon(tm).
Goal: To address issues of un-probable boosting ships (T3 are the only ships that can do this) and risk avoidance without forcing a mechanic change (i.e. prohibiting off-grid boosting).
Problem: Boosting Strategic Cruisers (primarily Tengus and Lokis) are still able to be rendered virtually un-probable due to the signature resolution and sensor strength calculations. It is still possible through use of multiple ECCM mids and lows to render a T3 exceedingly difficult to scan down. This shields those setups from any risk whatsoever. This is contrary to CCP's wishes.
Resolution/Proposal: Add a Signature Resolution penalty to all warfare gang link modules -- high enough to throw the sigres/sensor strength equation far enough off to render boosting Strategic Cruisers scannable like other ships in that class (e.g. cruisers) Add a Role Bonus to Command Ships reducing the above penalty by 99% -- prevents the use of these modules from blowing up the sigres of command ships (BC hull so already not small) -- potentially extend this same role bonus (or slightly reduced) to T1 BC hulls for the same reasons
Impact: Multiple ECCM modules will no longer render Strategic Cruisers un-probable.
Benefits: Command Ships, and to a lesser degree Battlecruisers, will be better suited to providing fleet boosts because of their tankier nature than Strategic Cruisers setup for the purpose Boosting Strategic Cruisers will no longer be virtually safe and must now take precautions or be destroyed "Natural" incentive to drive boosts ongrid via a module change and role bonus instead of a difficult "AoE" mechanic relying on grids being properly
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Rroff
Questionable Ethics. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
671
|
Posted - 2014.06.16 22:24:00 -
[2] - Quote
In many ways it does make sense - for warfare boosts to be effective they in a theoretical technical sense require extensive tranmission to and from the command ship of telemetry data from the fleet along with the use of super computers to be able to compute an enhanced solution to boost a ship's capabilities both of which would result in the command ship having a hard time masking its presence. |

Fer'isam K'ahn
None Of One
114
|
Posted - 2014.06.16 22:32:00 -
[3] - Quote
Am just finishing my skill training as a fleet booster, so any nerf will hit hard on the investment of months, but the logic is sound and I approve of it. |

RavenTesio
Liandri Corporation Liandri Covenant
123
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Posted - 2014.06.17 00:57:00 -
[4] - Quote
While I understand what you're trying to do, make the Safe Spot Boosts Probable, which after the chances last year they already are.
For the most part Off-Grid Boosting itself doesn't bother me all that much, the problem stems more from when it is used in Small / Solo PVP and on ships that already have considerably good Bonus' usually with full Implant Sets on (near) Perfectly Skilled Characters.
One of the biggest problems is that ALL of these things combined actually provides too BIG of an advantage. Omega Implants for example, realistically need to only be 5, 7.5 and 10% not 10, 25 and 50% ... seriously they take the ****, without the Omega; Implant Sets are actually great as they provide a slight bonus that provides an edge - but with it, that edge becomes a dominating factor. Implants frankly should be providing an Edge, not making them Over-Powered if they happen to have the ISK.
I mean if you look at the Faction, Dead-Space and Officer Modules; sure they provide those Over-Powered Bonus' but they're not exactly "easier to fit" ... as the ones that are offer the same bonus' as Tech 2, the ones that are better also require more Fitting, Cap, etc... It's a trade off, Implants don't have a Trade-Off they simply make your ships BETTER.
Any how back on to the main topic here, outside of the Implants the Bonus' provided via Warfare Links / Fleet Bonus' are in the same category as the Implant Sets. Where frankly Money = Better Ships, with almost as little real risk as Implants.
The first change I would make is when active Warfare Modules had the negative of +50% Signature Radius. This is both a Nerf to OGB as it makes them easier to Probe when in use, but it's also both a positive and negative for Command Ships; meaning they're more susceptible to getting hit by larger ships - but also easier to lock up for Logistics.
Next I would suggest both Command Ships and Tech 3 had the same 25% Perfect Skills with Mind Link output.... but before you're like "What!? They changed that so Off-Grid the Tech 3 wouldn't be as useful!" - which sure I'd agree with if the difference wasn't literally 1%. (Seriously CS is 26%, T3 is 25%.. the difference is pointless)
Now here comes probably the more controversial suggestions: While On-Grid, Warfare Links provide 100% Effectiveness (i.e. < 500KM) but past that it reduces to 40% (meaning an effective bonus of only 10%)
I would also Tier the effectiveness based on Ship Class: Tech 1 = 100% Navy = 80% Tech 2 = 50% Tech 3 / Pirate = 25%
The reason for this is simple, the Warfare Links /should/ be being used in Fleets to provide more help to those who need it because their skills might not be perfect; or the ship they're flying is less ideal.
I would also recommend a Tech 2 Command Destroyer, that are a Small Scale variant of the Command Ships. Providing a good Bonus ship for Small Scale Fleet Warfare.
The final thing I would suggest, and this is really aimed towards the Tech 3 Rebalance is move the Warfare Link Sub-System to Electronics or Offensive instead of being a Defensive Sub-System. Really those Defensive Systems should be:
Resists, Active, Hit Points and Logistics
Still I'll probably make a post about that soon given they are pencilled in to be rebalanced SoonGäó, so should probably start making suggestions now. |

Rroff
Questionable Ethics. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
672
|
Posted - 2014.06.17 01:32:00 -
[5] - Quote
RavenTesio wrote: The reason for this is simple, the Warfare Links /should/ be being used in Fleets to provide more help to those who need it because their skills might not be perfect; or the ship they're flying is less ideal.
That is certainly a note for thought on the subject even in isolation (don't have time to digest your entire post at the moment).
While off grid boosters "are" probable its still possible to make them so that to probe them out you need a high level of skill and/or implants and/or the right ship fit which people often don't have to hand unless they are specifically hunting for hard to probe t3s.
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Gavin Dax
Repercussus RAZOR Alliance
43
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Posted - 2014.06.17 01:35:00 -
[6] - Quote
I agree with the OP for the most part.
RavenTesio - implants are not really imbalanced, because they are expensive and they can be destroyed pretty easily. So while there is a lot of reward, there is most definitely a lot of risk. In fact, implants can be destroyed almost too easily. I know someone that put in a crystal set and lost it that same day to a smartbomber in lowsec. To destroy an implant set, all you have to do is bring a smartbombing ship into the fight, approach, wait until they are close to dying and turn on your smartbombs. Or wait at a a gate if they aren't insanely careful with their pod. This is ridiculously easy. Too easy, IMO because that smartbombing ship can just fill its lows with warp core stabs so you don't even have to worry about slow align issues, etc. in low sec.
Off-grid boosting on the other hand has *even more* reward than implants, and almost *zero* risk. IMO, the following changes would make off-grid boosting an ok mechanic: 1. No off-grid boosting from a ship within 200km of a POS. If within 200km of a POS, the booster can only on-grid boost. This is to prevent the broken mechanic of sitting on the edge of the shield, a second from safety, with a bunch of POS guns guarding the booster. 2. Active links make the boosting ship much easier to scan. 3. Boosting ships appear on kill mails.
In addition to this: A. Tank bonus when links are engaged (boosting ship gets a tank bonus, unrelated to the specific link). This is to encourage more on-grid boosting. B. Passive links that do not make your ship easier to scan and *can* off-grid boost next to a POS, but are much less powerful.
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Ziranda Hakuli
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
160
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Posted - 2014.06.17 02:26:00 -
[7] - Quote
I see we are back to this again. Do not get me wrong I have invested a year into training a command ship pilot who can fly all of them now. And when CCP announced that there will be changes to boosting I was over joyed with what I saw. I felt the strat cruisers were way too powerful compared tot he command ship pilot who spent months upon months of training.
And now the Strat Cruisers are still unscanable as the Op so pointed out. I made a suggestion when CCP first introduced this idea. I see no problem with the Strat Cruisers unscanable set up. But there is a solution to offset this.
I am going to take a little bit out of the Science Fiction world for this. In every SciFi movie I seen when trying to track down a command center that was actively sending out information always used lots of power or was semi easy to find. The Boosting ships are like GIANT radio stations easily found when you hit the auto tune button on your car radio. CCP could do one of two things: 1> Active boosting can be found in system and able to warp to if you open your scanner window. 2> Active boosting shows on overview.
Passive boosting should give no information since anyone in fleet is only getting passive boosting with no links running.
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Alundil
Rolled Out
558
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Posted - 2014.06.17 02:49:00 -
[8] - Quote
Ziranda Hakuli wrote:I see we are back to this again. Do not get me wrong I have invested a year into training a command ship pilot who can fly all of them now. And when CCP announced that there will be changes to boosting I was over joyed with what I saw. I felt the strat cruisers were way too powerful compared tot he command ship pilot who spent months upon months of training.
And now the Strat Cruisers are still unscanable as the Op so pointed out. I made a suggestion when CCP first introduced this idea. I see no problem with the Strat Cruisers unscanable set up. But there is a solution to offset this.
I am going to take a little bit out of the Science Fiction world for this. In every SciFi movie I seen when trying to track down a command center that was actively sending out information always used lots of power or was semi easy to find. The Boosting ships are like GIANT radio stations easily found when you hit the auto tune button on your car radio. CCP could do one of two things: 1> Active boosting can be found in system and able to warp to if you open your scanner window. 2> Active boosting shows on overview.
Passive boosting should give no information since anyone in fleet is only getting passive boosting with no links running.
Aside from making things that are not cyno beacons act like cyno beacons, that is what I'm trying to get at. Unscannable T3? Go for it. Boosting T3, go for it. Unscannable Boosting T3, no.
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Bohneik Itohn
Amarrian Salvage Gnomes and Associates
266
|
Posted - 2014.06.17 02:59:00 -
[9] - Quote
If off-grid boosting is on it's way out the door I don't know if it's appropriate to push hard for a change in the meantime that will have other balance implications.
CBC's were just given MMJD's, so when off-grid boosting goes the way of the Dodo CBC's will have the full advantage. Instead of confusing CCP on what it's priorities should be, how about we just push really hard on the one thing they've already promised that will fix this problem? Wait, CCP kills kittens now too?!-á - Freyya
Are you a forum alt? Have you ever wondered why your experience on the forums is always so frustrating and unrewarding? This may help. |

RcTamiya Leontis
Satan's Unicorns
28
|
Posted - 2014.06.17 07:03:00 -
[10] - Quote
I've noticed that even my loki with just 2 ( yes insane numbers i know) ECCM midslots became "almost" unprobeable for the casual hostile fightingbuddy, it needs a nerf ( i really want to see somebody catching my loki so I have to worry about it ..... (just kidding, i don't want to worry about it, but i should have to)).
Ongridonly-boosting shouldn't be the solution, instead simply remove the eccm/scan mechanics if ganglinks are fitted and its all solved without touching any ships themselves ;) It does of course also effect commandships, but currently you can even get those "unprobeable" with a little more effort, hpwever they can't cloak or warp through bubbles .....
regards rc |

Alundil
Rolled Out
558
|
Posted - 2014.06.17 13:49:00 -
[11] - Quote
RcTamiya Leontis wrote:I've noticed that even my loki with just 2 ( yes insane numbers i know) ECCM midslots became "almost" unprobeable for the casual hostile fightingbuddy, it needs a nerf ( i really want to see somebody catching my loki so I have to worry about it ..... (just kidding, i don't want to worry about it, but i should have to)).
Ongridonly-boosting shouldn't be the solution, instead simply remove the eccm/scan mechanics if ganglinks are fitted and its all solved without touching any ships themselves ;) It does of course also effect commandships, but currently you can even get those "unprobeable" with a little more effort, hpwever they can't cloak or warp through bubbles .....
regards rc Yes exactly. I don't have a problem with unscannable T3s. They offer interesting comps (slippery petes). But having them provide massive risk-less boosts for up to 255 pilots is crazy. That is one of the main points of this proposal.
Make the warfare gang link mods affect sigres on any ship without a Role Bonus for them. Bye bye unscannable booster = pay attention to your link ships or better yet keep them with the fleet.
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Alundil
Rolled Out
558
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Posted - 2014.06.17 14:16:00 -
[12] - Quote
Bohneik Itohn wrote:If off-grid boosting is on it's way out the door I don't know if it's appropriate to push hard for a change in the meantime that will have other balance implications. Partly, because I am concerned that CCP will struggle with the implementation of something constrained to a "grid" (by definition "on-grid"). This concern is due to the fact that grids in EVE can be hilariously broken, intentionally. 10,000Km long grid in an "L" shape? Sure, we can do that. D-scan says target is less than 50Km away and you can't see/target them? Awesome grid boundaries, yo. Basically grids in EVE are pretty bad and hinging such an important aspect on their proper behavior is risky at best.
Without addressing the fact that, for all intents and purposes, T3 boosting setups are still able to be un-probable, basing the future of fleet boosts/gang links on grid magic is a tenuous position. Same with attempting to limit the module effectiveness by range instead of grid boundaries. Enter the scenario above where someone finds the edge of a grid and sets up the un-probable booster just on the other side. Hidden from view/overview but within the range 200Km or 250Km or whatever it is. Someone will do this (hell someone has probably already done this tbqh). Forcing ships running boosts to remain detectable by combat scanner probe is a surefire way of bringing risk to that aspect of EVE without relying on a perfect implementation AoE properly constrained by grid boundaries.
That is why, imo, it is appropriate.
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Gavin Dax
Repercussus RAZOR Alliance
44
|
Posted - 2014.06.17 14:45:00 -
[13] - Quote
Alundil wrote:Bohneik Itohn wrote:If off-grid boosting is on it's way out the door I don't know if it's appropriate to push hard for a change in the meantime that will have other balance implications. Partly, because I am concerned that CCP will struggle with the implementation of something constrained to a "grid" (by definition "on-grid"). This concern is due to the fact that grids in EVE can be hilariously broken, intentionally. 10,000Km long grid in an "L" shape? Sure, we can do that. D-scan says target is less than 50Km away and you can't see/target them? Awesome grid boundaries, yo. Basically grids in EVE are pretty bad and hinging such an important aspect on their proper behavior is risky at best. Without addressing the fact that, for all intents and purposes, T3 boosting setups are still able to be un-probable, basing the future of fleet boosts/gang links on grid magic is a tenuous position. Same with attempting to limit the module effectiveness by range instead of grid boundaries. Enter the scenario above where someone finds the edge of a grid and sets up the un-probable booster just on the other side. Hidden from view/overview but within the range 200Km or 250Km or whatever it is. Someone will do this (hell someone has probably already done this tbqh). Forcing ships running boosts to remain detectable by combat scanner probe is a surefire way of bringing risk to that aspect of EVE without relying on a perfect implementation AoE properly constrained by grid boundaries. That is why, imo, it is appropriate.
Just to add, I don't think CCP will remove off-grid boosting anytime soon. One reason, as Alundil said, is the technical reason. The other is that CCP is probably concerned about the large number of alts that will unsub/pilots who will be angry with the change. Even though in the long run the change will make the game better = more subs, there will likely be an immediate hit that will make those who trained for a booster pretty upset. This is why I think it's a good idea to gradually modify off-grid boosting until it becomes undesirable. It will make CCPs intentions clear over a longer period of time, and go over better with the subscriber base.
Besides, there are a bunch of changes that can make off-grid boosting a lot more balanced. As it is now, it's ridiculously imbalanced. IMO it's better to 90% fix it now, rather than simply wait 2 or more years for the 100% fix.
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Lan Wang
Coreli Corporation Ineluctable.
9
|
Posted - 2014.06.17 15:06:00 -
[14] - Quote
boosting ships dont have any weapons and the skills involved in perfectly flying one are imense, so you want to make it easier to kill an un-armed ship, put a boosting ship on grid and its instantly primary just making the whole ship pointless to have in a fleet and the months of skills pointless |

Meytal
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
433
|
Posted - 2014.06.17 15:12:00 -
[15] - Quote
While I do agree that elimination of off-grid boosting is the correct, ultimate solution, this proposal is a useful interim step. It's easier to implement, by far, than forming computational solutions to grids and/or fixing grids. |

Alundil
Rolled Out
559
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Posted - 2014.06.17 15:35:00 -
[16] - Quote
Lan Wang wrote:boosting ships dont have any weapons and the skills involved in perfectly flying one are imense, so you want to make it easier to kill an un-armed (what about the children) ship, put a boosting ship on grid and its instantly primary just making the whole ship pointless to have in a fleet and the months of skills pointless Then you are "doing it wrong" as they say. And clearly didn't comprehend the point of this proposal.
Un-probable boosting T3s should have never been a "thing". They are broken in countless ways, not least of which is "Let me vastly increase the combat capability of an entire fleet of 255 pilots at literally zero risk." As has been said over and over, "Time and ISK are not balancing factors." If they were then whichever pilots have the most skillpoints (time) and largest ship (ISK) automatically wins. GG, game over.
There's no need to run a boosting setup with a full rack of links. You can, of course. But it doesn't mean that you should and that comes at a price.
It is entirely feasible (I know because I/we have done it) to put boosting ships on grid with a very high degree of survivability. They are called Command Ships. It's possible to make them very tough to kill. Impossible? No, of course not. But nothing should be. Which, coincidentally, is the issue with the un-probable boosting T3s.
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Arya Regnar
Darwins Right Hand
439
|
Posted - 2014.06.17 15:58:00 -
[17] - Quote
Make it so that every ship can use ganglinks and reduce the fitting requirements so that every ship can fit them.
Or just remove ganglinks.
No ogb is garbage mechanic.
EvE-Mail me if you need anything.
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Bohneik Itohn
Amarrian Salvage Gnomes and Associates
272
|
Posted - 2014.06.17 16:10:00 -
[18] - Quote
Lan Wang wrote:boosting ships dont have any weapons and the skills involved in perfectly flying one are imense, so you want to make it easier to kill an un-armed ship, put a boosting ship on grid and its instantly primary just making the whole ship pointless to have in a fleet and the months of skills pointless
So you have a problem being primary in a ship that can keep distance on any DPS fleet, has 150-200k EHP and silly resist profiles?
I'm sure the logi flying with you won't mind knowing that you're a high priority for the enemy with fairly high survivability. It makes their job that much easier. Wait, CCP kills kittens now too?!-á - Freyya
Are you a forum alt? Have you ever wondered why your experience on the forums is always so frustrating and unrewarding? This may help. |

Elusive Panda
Gendry's Leech Eternal Pretorian Alliance
36
|
Posted - 2014.06.17 16:35:00 -
[19] - Quote
Alundil wrote: As has been said over and over, "Time and ISK are not balancing factors." If they were then whichever pilots have the most skillpoints (time) and largest ship (ISK) automatically wins. GG, game over..
And then PL dropped supers. |

Lan Wang
Coreli Corporation Ineluctable.
9
|
Posted - 2014.06.17 18:39:00 -
[20] - Quote
Bohneik Itohn wrote:Lan Wang wrote:boosting ships dont have any weapons and the skills involved in perfectly flying one are imense, so you want to make it easier to kill an un-armed ship, put a boosting ship on grid and its instantly primary just making the whole ship pointless to have in a fleet and the months of skills pointless So you have a problem being primary in a ship that can keep distance on any DPS fleet, has 150-200k EHP and silly resist profiles? I'm sure the logi flying with you won't mind knowing that you're a high priority for the enemy with fairly high survivability. It makes their job that much easier.
I fly a loki alot and have been primary and the tank of a t3 doesnt hold up that great when 30ships have locked you up even with logi, i dont mind losing ships but if a ship is going to be on grid for less than 30secs then whats the point in using it, so basically what you are implying is you cant fight a fleet with boost off grid the boost needs to be ongrid so you can kill it first.
I understand there are various circumstances but i dont see such a big issue with having boost offgrid
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Alundil
Rolled Out
564
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Posted - 2014.06.17 18:50:00 -
[21] - Quote
Lan Wang wrote:Bohneik Itohn wrote:Lan Wang wrote:boosting ships dont have any weapons and the skills involved in perfectly flying one are imense, so you want to make it easier to kill an un-armed ship, put a boosting ship on grid and its instantly primary just making the whole ship pointless to have in a fleet and the months of skills pointless So you have a problem being primary in a ship that can keep distance on any DPS fleet, has 150-200k EHP and silly resist profiles? I'm sure the logi flying with you won't mind knowing that you're a high priority for the enemy with fairly high survivability. It makes their job that much easier. I fly a loki alot and have been primary and the tank of a t3 doesnt hold up that great when 30ships have locked you up even with logi, i dont mind losing ships but if a ship is going to be on grid for less than 30secs then whats the point in using it, so basically what you are implying is you cant fight a fleet with boost off grid the boost needs to be ongrid so you can kill it first. I understand there are various circumstances but i dont see such a big issue with having boost offgrid Please read the proposal first.
No where have I said that boosts must be on grid. Under my proposal they can remain off grid . Whether they do or not is obviously CCP's call (regardless of whether I think their approach will work or not).
My proposal is that you cannot boost a fleet while remaining virtually impossible to probe. That is the crux of the proposal - prohibit un-probable boosters. What else you do is up to you (t3 off/on grid, command ship off/on grid, circling a pos, whatever).
As to your point about being in Loki on grid with fleet.....perhaps the "tried and true" EVE mechanic of everyone in a tight little ball is a bad tactic since it puts key ships like the booster in the think of things (and in range of alpha or high dps ships). Perhaps breaking those out and being mobile while on the same grid would give you more chance of success/surviving.
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Alundil
Rolled Out
564
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Posted - 2014.06.22 15:55:00 -
[22] - Quote
If there were a way to search Eve kill looking for only ships with links that might help shed some light on this discussion as well.
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Dehval
Risk Breakers Fidelas Constans
50
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Posted - 2014.06.22 22:02:00 -
[23] - Quote
Quote:Resolution/Proposal: Add a Signature Resolution penalty to all warfare gang link modules -- high enough to throw the sigres/sensor strength equation far enough off to render boosting Strategic Cruisers scannable like other ships in that class (e.g. cruisers) Add a Role Bonus to Command Ships reducing the above penalty by 99% -- prevents the use of these modules from blowing up the sigres of command ships (BC hull so already not small) -- potentially extend this same role bonus (or slightly reduced) to T1 BC hulls for the same reasons
Don't tie to to the gang links themselves. Tie it to the Command Processor module. Command ships can already use the needed minimum 3 links without command processors and most t1 BC boosters only have 1 spare high for casual fleet boosting anyways.
T3 boosters on the other hand need to use multiple CPs in order to use more than one link. Giving the penalty to the CPs only negatively affects T3 boosters only as nearly all other boosting ships from BCs to Titans (lol) have no need to use said module. That way you don't need to add the role bonuses to all other boosting ships to negate the change. Keeps it simple. If absolutely needed you could add the role bonus to the T1 BCs so those small few who boost with them aren't penalized too much. |

Saisin
State War Academy Caldari State
72
|
Posted - 2014.06.22 23:49:00 -
[24] - Quote
I support the he OP point but in a sligly different way...
I would prefer to see that any ship,other than a command ship when using links create a beacon to their on grid location, and if they leave the beacon's grid, their links stop working and has to be restarted, thus creating a new beacon...
This way command ship keep their inherent advantage, and must be scanned down when using links, as they already can't become un scannable..
Other ships create a new grid fighting area, but still have etheability to maneuver away from the beacon they have created.
FYI, I think that rather than bringing links on grid, it is better for the game play to create multiple fighting grids within a system, and keeping links able to work system wide would do that... "surrender your ego, be free". innuendo.
solo? There is a new hope http://turamarths-evelife.blogspot.com/2014/05/ok-now-im-betting-man.html |

Katsumi Hanaya
Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2014.06.23 02:09:00 -
[25] - Quote
So whats to stop people from just boosting from the undock in a heavily tanked command ship?
Essentially the only thing this will change is the price on the sensor strenght implants. And possibly give who ever lives in a system a home advantage. |

Alundil
Rolled Out
566
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Posted - 2014.06.23 13:54:00 -
[26] - Quote
Thank for the additional responses. In response to:
Dehval wrote:T3 boosters on the other hand need to use multiple CPs in order to use more than one link. Giving the penalty to the CPs only negatively affects T3 boosters as nearly all other boosting ships from BCs to Titans (lol) have no need to use said module. That way you don't need to add the role bonuses to all other boosting ships to negate the change. Keeps it simple. If absolutely needed you could add the role bonus to the T1 BCs so those small few who boost with them aren't penalized too much. T3 boosting is precisely what needs to be impacted and that was the aim of my proposal. Adding the sigres penalty to the gang links themselves in order to balloon the sig of ships using those modules. I also stated that the role bonus for Command Ships and, even, T1 Battlecruisers would negate this penalty. The purpose of this proposal is to specifically make boosting while unprobable impossible. This proposal would do that without negatively impacting either of the two common boosting setups. As for the "....Titans (lol)..." they aren't worried about hiding from probes at all, ever. They also aren't boosting, typically, since the "no warfare links from inside POS" change. But either way, additional signature resolution on the largest ship in the game isn't going to change anything at all for the Titan pilot.
Saisin wrote:I would prefer to see that any ship,other than a command ship when using links create a beacon to their on grid location, and if they leave the beacon's grid, their links stop working and has to be restarted, thus creating a new beacon... If unprobable boosting was too easy/safe/riskless in one direction, then I think that this goes too far in the other direction. I'm not looking to make finding off grid boosters effortless. It should take some minimum effort to find and catch off grid boosters. Nothing should create a 'beacon' other than cynosural fields. Dropping combat probes should still be a requirement to finding off grid boosting ships. Only now if this proposal makes it in, there will be a decent chance of finding said booster as opposed to very low chance currently.
Katsumi Hanaya wrote:So whats to stop people from just boosting from the undock in a heavily tanked command ship?
Essentially the only thing this will change is the price on the sensor strenght implants. And possibly give who ever lives in a system a home advantage. Nothing stops people from boosting from the undock. This change won't (isn't aimed at) changing that. If someone is boosting from the undock (lowsec & 00), bring alpha ships and force them to dock back up. Boosting interrupted. If this is a High sec concern, then I don't think anything (short of CCP changing aggression mechanics on boosting ships, unlikely though that is) will change this as high sec mechanics are, imo, pretty **** for fleet pvp because of untouchable neutrals. With the penalties in mind, sensor strength implants won't reduce the penalties in a significant manner so that shouldn't be a concern. If the system you're operating in "belongs" to someone that you're fighting it is highly likely they have "homefield advantage" either way regardless of this change. I don't see this proposal impacting homefield advantage in any appreciable way (and it wasn't intended to).
Thank you, love the discussion. Keep it coming.
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Katsumi Hanaya
Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2014.06.24 07:53:00 -
[27] - Quote
Alundil wrote:Katsumi Hanaya wrote:So whats to stop people from just boosting from the undock in a heavily tanked command ship?
Essentially the only thing this will change is the price on the sensor strenght implants. And possibly give who ever lives in a system a home advantage. Nothing stops people from boosting from the undock. This change won't (isn't aimed at) changing that. If someone is boosting from the undock (lowsec & 00), bring alpha ships and force them to dock back up. Boosting interrupted.
If someone were off grid boosting, just drop probes. Boosting interupted.
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Rectile
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
5
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Posted - 2014.06.24 08:25:00 -
[28] - Quote
Halp us CCP Rise you are our only hope!! |

Alundil
Rolled Out
571
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Posted - 2014.06.24 13:38:00 -
[29] - Quote
Katsumi Hanaya wrote:Alundil wrote:Katsumi Hanaya wrote:So whats to stop people from just boosting from the undock in a heavily tanked command ship?
Essentially the only thing this will change is the price on the sensor strenght implants. And possibly give who ever lives in a system a home advantage. Nothing stops people from boosting from the undock. This change won't (isn't aimed at) changing that. If someone is boosting from the undock (lowsec & 00), bring alpha ships and force them to dock back up. Boosting interrupted. If someone were off grid boosting, just drop probes. Boosting interupted. Those in unscannable boosting T3s know that they do not have to move very quickly. The smart ones have multiple safes setup. The chances of catching them are very, very small. That is the issue. Catching and killing boosting ships ought be possible. Boosting T3s should not be unprobable. That's the point. Pretty simple.
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Phoenix Jones
Concordiat Spaceship Samurai
465
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Posted - 2014.06.24 19:21:00 -
[30] - Quote
Command Processors should go, period. If the ships on field, it should be in play, not in some lone corner dscanning for probes and/or afking. You'd relegate fleet boosters back to Command Ships.
Yes this nerfs quite a few ships, but to hell with it already. A dedicated booster should be a dedicated person to flying that booster. Increase the potential of the command ships and give them a offense worthwhile for being in the fleet.
Redo the warfare processors for all T3's. Make them able to use it and use a combat system to be viable on the field, rather than some floating junkheap off to the side. In otherwords, your a T3 and your a booster, fit a booster module, fit your T3 for combat, go fight while boosting. The subsystem should not junk your T3 ships tank totally. Stabbers are totally broken
http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=15116553
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