Why would anyone watchlist anyone then?

I have one serious gripe with this;

Currently at least it's an equal intel playing field, small groups can just as easily watch list the Titans/Supers of large groups and thus know whether they are drawing response when they logon their own capital pilots. Or if said large groups have their stuff logged in to start with.

In a system where you would need visual presence to confirm Titans/Supers being logged on you place the intel advantage firmly with the larger organisation because they have more people (and alts) to keep large networks of observers in place.

I suspect that contrary to what you think your proposed change would accomplish it would actually increase the advantage of larger groups purely because they have more manpower for intel gathering.

I propose that people can only watchlist you if you accept it. in other words:
If somebody wants to watchlist you, you get a message wich asks you if you agree to have that person watchlist you.

Another possibility is for interested characters to train a Watch List Delay skill. Untrained, watchlist works as now. Trained to level 1, there's a delay from you log on, and until those who have you watchlisted see you, of 1 minute. Likewise after you log off there's a delay of 1 minute before you actually indicate log-off on everybody's watch list.

Doubled at level 2 to 2 minutes, then 4 minutes, then 8 minutes, then 15 minutes at level 5.

That way, characters who find it worth the training time, such as capital pilots, can train this skill a bit, or a lot, to confound and confuse their enemies.

Watchlisting is one of the most used and easy intel assets at the moment.
People just have to put you on watchlist and provide free and easy instant intel.
There are alliances that have every single capital-pilot watchlisted and it makes it almost impossible nowadays to log in a capital fleet without the enemy instantly knowing it.
This makes boring gameplay and prevents covert capital operations.


I propose that people can only watchlist you if you accept it. in other words:
If somebody wants to watchlist you, you get a message wich asks you if you agree to have that person watchlist you.

This way people will actually have to do more active scouting and less metagaming in station.

And it will provide more capital action since people will be less scared to log in their capital ships without having the danger of being ganked by big alliances with lots of capital ships that are waiting for you to log in and see you on their watchlist.

Actually not, since the larger groups have no idea when you log in and move your capital, they wont know where it is.
Also if the larger alliances see the smaller log in and they log in theirs, the smaller alliances have no other option then to stand down. This standing down is what is making it boring.

It would make a tremendous lot of work for the big alliances to observe everything, and the smaller alliances have more chance of getting in and out of a fight before the big alliances notice.

We'll have to agree to disagree. Mostly because I think you severely underestimate the intel gathering capabilities of some of New Eden's larger entities.

The amount of smaller entities which will deploy capitals with any regularity or effectiveness is small enough that it wouldn't be that hard to keep them under reasonably effective surveillance. And then I'm not even taking into account how many medium sized entities are riddled with spies and people with divided loyalties.

Anyway, we'll just have to disagree I fear

How about:
Make watchlists agreement restricted and mutually visible; any side can cancel the watching.
Add surveillance agents, like locator agents that let you watch one person as a service, limited time, limited number, costing ISK and being one sided.
Bonus: Surveillance agents could be used for counter surveillance cancelling a random other agent on you if it is the same agent level or lower than the one you use.

Actually, the whole intelligence gathering aspect could use being aggregated into a whole feature of its own.

People willingly post on these services. Why can't the watchlist also be limited to only those willingly sharing the info?

Why should it? By logging in you agree to be seen by people, ie. you are willing to use these services. Similar to the policy "You undock and agree that other people shoot at you."

As long as they are in the same system as me sure I have no problem with that because we currently can't really get rid of local. Not half way across the universe just because I was once seen so people could log my character name.

Why not half-way across the universe? That's the point of secret surveillance. Bugs and wire-taps work in the same fashion. And you are also not asked for permission.

No counter? I think that versatility is a very good counter. People are probably not putting others on WL for dreads/carriers anymore, but if I was on a WL, these people had a very hard time to figure out what I do. I am practically always online and spend random amounts of time in my caps. Yep, I think that's a good counter. If you have a specialized char only for big guns, it's obviously not going to work.

People just have to put you on watchlist and provide free and easy instant intel.
There are alliances that have every single capital-pilot watchlisted and it makes it almost impossible nowadays to log in a capital fleet without the enemy instantly knowing it.
[snip]
This way people will actually have to do more active scouting and less metagaming in station.

A lot of people seem to want this, the topic has been brought up many times, but because of the sheer number of new ideas in this Forum it always kinda sinks away and gets forgotten.
I really hope CCP will pick this idea up and do something about it.

This is a terrible idea that (if it were made true) would really only benefit the largest organizations that have the man power to deploy many people/alts to watch PoS's where supers stage out of.

Also, making the WL have to be approved?? WTF, the NSA never asked for your approval before they snatched your emails, phone numbers, and contact information, why would anyone give consent? That's just stupid. They can tap a phone on the otherside of the planet, wby wouldn't they be able to have the same capacity across the universe?

Ill admit that the WL system is Overpowered, however on that same note its also equally balanced between all players in its current form.

If there is going to be a change to the WL, this isn't it.

That's actually not true. All of the talk has been that if WL was changed the larger alliances would have the advantage over intel.

Well, to begin with, they already have the advantage, because they have more people.

Secondly, they should have an advantage, they are larger and are devoting more resources to intel.

Thirdly, every one of these statements highlights the fact that watchlists work in favor of giving smaller alliances more intel than they legitimately work for, providing more value to them than they do the larger alliances. That is not an equal balance across all playing fields.

If you want an equal balance, get rid of easy meta-intel like the watch list, and then it'll be down to the individuals to provide that balance. Smaller alliances can still easily hold an edge on larger alliances because one savvy vet can gain better intel than 10 scrubs watching the doors because everyone else is too busy being important.

It's very simple. Non-Consensual Watch-listing stifles gameplay for the intel players, and reduces confrontations between capital pilots through arbitrary means.