Problem: Risk vs Reward for lowsec/nullsec incursions is skewed. (expanding on my earlier post)

To get decent site times, you have to run very blingy fleets. But bringing blingy fleets to nullsec/lowsec is a bad idea. See http://dog-net.org/brdoc/?brid=25505 Basically if there's a neut in local you have to safe up and not run the sites... or you have to deal with the risk of getting hotdropped like that. And they weren't even that blingy for an incursion fleet. And they still had terrible site times. Just to break even on on the losses, each pilot will need to run about 10+ hours, and that has them breaking even. Only past that will they get profit.

You either run
a: A cheap fleet. Your site times are twice as long. You get paid 50% more per site. So you make less isk per hour, and have more risk. And you can get camped by someone afk.
b: A blingy fleet. Your site times are similar to hisec, but a bit slower because you don't have as much bling. You make ~40% more then hisec, but you've got 10b+ on field, which can be taken out by a blops fleet, and if you lose ship per incursion, any profit you make from running in a blingier is wiped out. And you can still be camped by someone afk, and you're more worried about it.

Problem: Risk vs Reward for lowsec/nullsec incursions is skewed. (expanding on my earlier post)

To get decent site times, you have to run very blingy fleets. But bringing blingy fleets to nullsec/lowsec is a bad idea. See http://dog-net.org/brdoc/?brid=25505 Basically if there's a neut in local you have to safe up and not run the sites... or you have to deal with the risk of getting hotdropped like that. And they weren't even that blingy for an incursion fleet. And they still had terrible site times. Just to break even on on the losses, each pilot will need to run about 10+ hours, and that has them breaking even. Only past that will they get profit.

You either run
a: A cheap fleet. Your site times are twice as long. You get paid 50% more per site. So you make less isk per hour, and have more risk. And you can get camped by someone afk.
b: A blingy fleet. Your site times are similar to hisec, but a bit slower because you don't have as much bling. You make ~40% more then hisec, but you've got 10b+ on field, which can be taken out by a blops fleet, and if you lose ship per incursion, any profit you make from running in a blingier is wiped out. And you can still be camped by someone afk, and you're more worried about it.

Hailooo .

I am one of the people that are responsible for the Empire Incursions turning into what they are now .

I hereby offer my years of experience and expertise to any low / Null entity that has the pilot resources and desire to put plenty of effort into following my advice and guidance for ship fittings and tactics to make the Incursions in your space as profitable as in Empire .

Best regards
ISN Management .

He may be a goon but he's right. The problem isn't how much isk the high sec incursioners make or how much risk is involved in how they make it, but in the fact that only high sec incursions have a reasonable risk to reward ratio.

So long as high sec incursions remain so much more profitable than incursions elsewhere, the small base of players that enjoy the incursion content have no incentive to run them anywhere else.

Please see: Number of Revenants in existence.

That really puts a scale on just how many low sec incursions are completed.

10Bil ? Do 10 Taloses cost 10 bill ? VG's is null can be done in Taloses in very decent times and with the increased payout they are as profitable as in Empire . Just know the field that you want to play in .

I know incursions and I know that you can make them as profitable in null/ low as they are in Empire using PvP ships . No bling required .

Then why, pray tell, aren't you running them in low and null where there is less competition?

It's true, but can you imagine how much they (incursions) would have to pay to make them profitable to run in low sec if every 10th VG site cost your fleet 10 billion ISK. 100mil made 10 bil lost, not a good business plan.

And the lack of Revenants is also due to the cost of the BP, it takes 40 pilots (Plus scouts, boosters, defenders and backups) in a concerted effort of 18-24 hours to kill a Mom in high sec, in low sec I can only guess but 72 hours might be close. Now what is the time and effort of 60+ pilots worth? I would say a lot, and old sales of Revenants estimate it at 100bil. I know of at least one BP that is sitting in a hangar gathering dust because there were no buyers

10Bil ? Do 10 Taloses cost 10 bill ? VG's is null can be done in Taloses in very decent times and with the increased payout they are as profitable as in Empire . Just know the field that you want to play in .

So long as high sec incursions remain so much more profitable than incursions elsewhere, the small base of players that enjoy the incursion content have no incentive to run them anywhere else.

Please see: Number of Revenants in existence.

That really puts a scale on just how many low sec incursions are completed.

If you think there are only two revenants in existance in New Eden you are terribly misinformed, having had done lowsec incursions I've personally come across about 7 bpc, 2 of which we recovered. A simple look at Zkillboard shows easily a handful that are openly active in 'pvp'.

And the rest are just trophies or glorified ratting ships because the ship is about as useful as it looks

Thanks, I honestly didn't think about looking at the killboards because I was pretty sure they were ALL just trophies or ratting ships.

Aren't they supposed to deal the highest DPS out of all supercarriers with the recent changes? I remember reading somewhere that they were unquestionably the best in one specific area and pretty forgettable in everything else, I just can't remember exactly what.

I'm really interested to hear more about your experience with Revenants, it's kind of like meeting someone who has seen a Unicorn.

I'd don't recall them ever having more than dps than say a Nyx, but since the drone/drone skill changes a revenant does the same dps as an Aeon, Wvern and a Hel, but now a Nyx does about 25% more damage along with more lowslots for drone damage amps than a Revenant.

Once upon a time the Revenant had a further jump range than the other supers but that was ' rebalanced '.

I know incursions and I know that you can make them as profitable in null/ low as they are in Empire using PvP ships . No bling required .

ISK wise they are fine as they are. You can make comparable isk to highsec whilst using basic fittings campared to shiny hulls in highsec and pvp is a bonus imo. The only difference is low does require a bit more effort with scouting etc (null has intel channels), but that is a player issue, not a mechanic one.

But sure ofc more isk for low would make them more popular, null are fine.

Thanks for your offer. Please give a suggestion for how to deal with a known hot-dropper showing up in local.
*sniped*
Best regards
CFC Incursions Management.

Gotta love the CFC incursion management, as well as other major blocks fearing a "hotdrop" in cyno jammed systems, because of the incursion. Now, bridging a BS/ABC/other beefy high DPS fleet to the edge of the constellation might work.

Covert cynos work in incursion systems just fine...

I supposed, but I thought this was referred to as being "blops'd", not "hotdroping".

Gotta love the CFC incursion management, as well as other major blocks fearing a "hotdrop" in cyno jammed systems, because of the incursion. Now, bridging a BS/ABC/other beefy high DPS fleet to the edge of the constellation might work.

Also, if there's a way you can get it so that we can run incursions in nullsec when there's none in friendly space, that would be great. For the past week, there's been one up in NA. space, b0t space and S2N space.

Problem: Highsec incursions are some fo the best ISK generators in the game, yet are completely risk free.

Suggestion for solution: Start by giving them the same gate rats as null/lowsec. Then, drop the security status of the incursion constelations, or just remove concord from them.